Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Scaff]

What I am saying is take the average person put them in a powerful car they never have driven to the limits with no electronic what do you think is going to happen? Everyone saying oh I drive this I did this, that’s fine besides you and a other few members who ACTUALLY Raced cars majority of us on this conversation would never take off the electronic aids on a 500hp let alone drive the way we do In GT7. Me personally I don’t have trouble catching slides or getting the car back in shape when going over the limit, but what I’m saying, I don’t think that’s far fetched at all, catching the cars once they hit their limit in AC is just as hard probably harder in my opinion and that’s with even better feedback.

I've literally taught people to do it, and it's nothing like as hard as it is in GT 7, particularly in road cars on road tyres. In regard to switching everything off in a car and messing about and being able to hold a reasonable amount of slip? Yep, I've done that, E63 and C63 AMG's, and if you give Merc some money they will let anyone do it. Ditto, your local race track if it has a skid pan, and a whole range of drift experience days.

Nor would I agree that it's easier than cars on or over the limit in AC, for comparison I was on AMS2 yesterday (as the excellent new USA Retro Gen 1 cars were released) and took the Camaro SS in it around Brands Hatch and then did the same in GT 7. Diver aides on or off, the difference in how they react up to and just on the limit was reasonably close (in terms of physics - FFB is significantly better in AMS2), but in AMS 2 you can get a few degrees more angle on that and it's predictable and catchable. I'm not talking about holding long, high-angle lurid slides here, but rather getting a few degrees over-rotation past the slip limit. Road cars do not cause you to bin it in these conditions with anything like the frequency that they are doing in GT 7.

 

[JDMKING13]

I've literally taught people to do it, and it's nothing like as hard as it is in GT 7, particularly in road cars on road tyres.

Nor would I agree that it's easier than cars on or over the limit in AC, for comparison I was on AMS2 yesterday (as the excellent new USA Retro Gen 1 cars were released) and took the Camaro SS in it around Brands Hatch and then did the same in GT 7. Diver aides on or off, the difference in how they react up to and just on the limit was reasonably close, but in AMS 2 you can get a few degrees more angle on that and it's predictable and catchable. I'm not talking about holding long, high-angle lurid slides here, but rather getting a few degrees over-rotation past the slip limit. Road cars do not cause you to bin it in these conditions with anything like the frequency that they are doing in GT 7.

Ok I understand what your saying… honestly I have learned a great deal from you and respect your opinion big time.👍

 

[MadmuppGT]

I’m sorry if I asked you already what wheel are you using? The controller is way easier I tried it yesterday but it’s so boring compared to the wheel. I do like the feed back and the controller feels better than my wheel when you hit the rumble strips.

I'm using a G29 that I've been using almost daily for a few years now.
I agree with a controller it feels much smoother and forgiving and I think that's all down to the fact its compensating for the lack of feedback a controller gives.

Unfortunately the game doesn't extend this courtesy to the difference between a top end wheel and rig and people using a cheap wheel and an eBay stand on a wooden floor in front of the family sofa.
sorry to parrot on, but GT Sport didn't seem to have this issue. If you had a cheap wheel like me you still got a fun sensation and experience, and players who had expensive set ups had even more fun and were obviously faster with that extra feedback.

But I've adjusted the FFB all over the scale to find some tweek but the problems still remain that the moment I turn the wheel 1 degree the car snaps into a 360 spin. I can brake hard and turn or brake gently and straight the result is always the same... the moment I turn the wheel to enter a corner the car is already gone.

I never even reach the apex.

So to at least play the game I'm running all assists on which is frankly like watching someone else play the game. 😔

 

[Scaff]

Unfortunately the game doesn't extend this courtesy to the difference between a top end wheel and rig and people using a cheap wheel and an eBay stand on a wooden floor in front of the family sofa.
sorry to parrot on, but GT Sport didn't seem to have this issue. If you had a cheap wheel like me you still got a fun sensation and experience, and players who had expensive set ups had even more fun and were obviously faster with that extra feedback.

Better gear is a matter of diminishing returns, my set-up has had a silly amount of investment in it, and is still a long way from what I could spend on it.

As long as your using a FFB wheel then you should be more than good, it's actually pedals that need a bit more consideration, but even then you don't 'need' a load cell, and various DIY mods for increasing brake pedal resistance are cheap and easy ways of getting more out of what you've got.

Anyone who is claiming that you need a DD wheel in order to be able to drive any title is, quite frankly, talking elitist bollocks. Enjoy what you have, and a G29 is more than good enough to get what you need from a title.

What more expensive kit generally gives you in more immersion, it does not make you a better driver, only practice will do that, and a more expensive rig will never fix fundamental flaws a title has.

 

[JDMKING13]

They definitely tween the game guys… it’s more grip in the tires.. Seemed like they tamed it down a bit.. you still can loose the car but for example i normally ran tcs 1/2 on my 911 991 I just did a race with it completely off and while the car did loose traction it was way easier to catch.
@MadmuppGT bro the G29 is a good wheel and as scaff said I think pedals at least for me are more important. I have t300 and some guys I race with g29 are way faster than me so anybody telling you otherwise is flex for the gram! You should give it another go they gave the tires more grip on my opinion after update… game still feels great though and being crazy aggressive will send you outta wack. I didn’t have to run TCS though which I have mixed feelings about. I just know in my heart it would take me a long time in real life to push a 911 991 with no aids on which was the sensation I was getting before update.

 

[JDMKING13]

Sorry double post

 

[NikNakTobasco]

They definitely tween the game guys… it’s more grip in the tires.. Seemed like they tamed it down a bit.. you still can loose the car but for example i normally ran tcs 1/2 on my 911 991 I just did a race with it completely off and while the car did loose traction it was way easier to catch.

I’m absolutely buzzing to get home and try later if true. Can you be more specific? Is it longer transition to oversteer, better feedback, more grip under throttle?

 

[JDMKING13]

I’m absolutely buzzing to get home and try later if true. Can you be more specific? Is it longer transition to oversteer, better feedback, more grip under throttle?

I just think the tires have more grip honestly… I didn’t have to run TCS on my Porsche as I did before.. don’t get me wrong the car can still break traction just not as before I feel.

They also fixed the rally landing physics.. you can land safely now. 😂

Driving more I put SH on my RS to prepare for rain and still the car does get loose but you can catch it way easier… it feels like they also improved the steering inputs.. guys let me know what you think! I’m liking it even better before!

 

[D_Dragline]

I've literally taught people to do it, and it's nothing like as hard as it is in GT 7, particularly in road cars on road tyres. In regard to switching everything off in a car and messing about and being able to hold a reasonable amount of slip? Yep, I've done that, E63 and C63 AMG's, and if you give Merc some money they will let anyone do it. Ditto, your local race track if it has a skid pan, and a whole range of drift experience days.

Nor would I agree that it's easier than cars on or over the limit in AC, for comparison I was on AMS2 yesterday (as the excellent new USA Retro Gen 1 cars were released) and took the Camaro SS in it around Brands Hatch and then did the same in GT 7. Diver aides on or off, the difference in how they react up to and just on the limit was reasonably close (in terms of physics - FFB is significantly better in AMS2), but in AMS 2 you can get a few degrees more angle on that and it's predictable and catchable. I'm not talking about holding long, high-angle lurid slides here, but rather getting a few degrees over-rotation past the slip limit. Road cars do not cause you to bin it in these conditions with anything like the frequency that they are doing in GT 7.

Such a good observation. This articulates the current issue for me with clarity.

Car behavior in GT7 is mostly improved, but the behavior beyond optimal grip threshold is objectively unrealistic.

I’m starting to form the view that it’s to do with a broken tyre temperature model. I wonder whether there’s simply a grip threshold temperature defined in the code for each tyre compound and once it’s exceeded, grip immediately reduces to almost zero rather than along a predictable curve.

This would explain the weird behavior in turns like those at BMB where minimal steering angle and constant speed can suddenly induce unrecoverable oversteer.

Just a stab in the dark, but I’m struggling to make sense of the behavior otherwise.

 

[JDMKING13]

Doing the SPA Porsche cup 3 times in a row I would like to say I feel even though the tires have more grip it’s not like they made them extremely sticky or unrealistic, it’s just you can save the car a lot easier vs just spinning out 8/10 times.. I still think i will run TCS because the cars still get loose and I feel on a stock car without tuning the TCS will help you keep straight on a powerful car. I am not a person who feels harder is realistic and I’m glad they touched up the physics in that department.. I hope with more feedback they make it even better!

 

[MadmuppGT]

Compare it to a controller? See if it still lights up when on the straight. Also, above the speed/tachometer it shows steering input. Check that it's not doing something crazy.

Ok I've finally got to check if the stability light is illuminated with a controller too and the answer is yes.

See the picture here. As you can see I'm not going particularly fast, the wheel is straight and the car is accelerating smoothly. Nothing should be upsetting the car but the stability light is on 90% of the time or flickering on and off.
This is with any car, any speed, any circuit, with my wheel and with any of the 3 controllers I have.

Worst part is if I didn't have stability on this car would simply snap away the moment I move the wheel or press the brake.

 

[JDMKING13]

Some people are reporting the cars are spinning easy.. some are saying the cars are better… I just ran another three races with TCS off and I feel as I can catch slides better.. I don’t know maybe I’m tripping! Anybody tried it after the update? I know they also made the wobble 2 camera less aggressive.

 

[J-PaP]

Some people are reporting the cars are spinning easy.. some are saying the cars are better… I just ran another three races with TCS off and I feel as I can catch slides better.. I don’t know maybe I’m tripping! Anybody tried it after the update? I know they also made the wobble 2 camera less aggressive.

I saw an improvement. I did a few wet weather and dry license tests including S10 and they were much more consistent for me. Slides were also easier to catch.

 

[JDMKING13]

I saw an improvement. I did a few wet weather and dry license tests including S10 and they were much more consistent for me. Slides were also easier to catch.

I’m noticing also it seems a bit easier to catch slides but the physics still raw to me which is a good thing!

 

[D_Dragline]

I’m noticing also it seems a bit easier to catch slides but the physics still raw to me which is a good thing!

I’m honestly not seeing any difference so far. Admittedly I’ve not done much testing since the update, but the loss of grip still feels the same.

 

[Lord Protector]

As someone who has done 30+ track events and spent 1000s of hours in sims, I can say GT7s physics engine is about 90% there, but misses out in two major areas. First one being when you're right at the edge of grip and the second being when you're beyond it. I drive an e92 m3 IRL and for having 400hp+, it's way more progressive in losing grip and controllable than GT7. I can almost steer the car with the throttle when I'm at the edge of rear grip. In GT7 that's impossible. Once traction breaks, it requires much more steering angle than IRL and much less throttle than IRL. It also snaps the opposite direction way too easily, which is why you see videos of players swinging from left to right. The tire takes much longer to regain traction as well. This is more noticeable in the rain events. I'm almost tempted to not use the wheel as it will develop a bad habit in my driving.

Just my 2 cents.

I just wonder why:

a) PD don’t know about this
b) PD don’t care, but at the same time saying GT7 is accessible and real driving is not that hard. Yeah, it’s definitely easier than GT7 they got that right.

 

[RaceFace85]

I just wonder why:

a) PD don’t know about this
b) PD don’t care, but at the same time saying GT7 is accessible and real driving is not that hard. Yeah, it’s definitely easier than GT7 they got that right.

You are right. The problem is that some people who never drove a real car at the limit think that this difficult handling is good. NFS Heat for example is an arcade game but the pure grip level of stock cars is more realistic than in GT7.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

I just wonder why:

a) PD don’t know about this
b) PD don’t care, but at the same time saying GT7 is accessible and real driving is not that hard. Yeah, it’s definitely easier than GT7 they got that right.

They’ve made the stock cars artificially weak so you’re forced to spend credits to get them controllable. That’s my conspiracy theory anyway.

 

[fortbo]

You are right. The problem is that some people who never drove a real car at the limit think that this difficult handling is good. NFS Heat for example is an arcade game but the pure grip level of stock cars is more realistic than in GT7.

Dude what? NFS Heat is nowhere near as realistic as GT7 in any aspect whatsoever, even pure grip.

 

[Lord Protector]

Dude what? NFS Heat is nowhere near as realistic as GT7 in any aspect whatsoever, even pure grip.

In terms of achieving speed from standing still, it is.

 

[Lord Protector]

They’ve made the stock cars artificially weak so you’re forced to spend credits to get them controllable. That’s my conspiracy theory anyway.

You’re better off just running TCS and ASM (which is free).

 

[NikNakTobasco]

which is free)

Don’t give them any ideas!

 

[JDMKING13]

Dude what? NFS Heat is nowhere near as realistic as GT7 in any aspect whatsoever, even pure grip.

But this is what I’m talking about… Like come on?!! I can put on less tires than the ones that come equipped and drive the cars… if you just start telling people there just not good at the game then they look at you as if your being obnoxious…

 

[NevilleNobody]

I agree with the comment above re. the car snapping back wildy. So you lose a bit of rear grip, try to correct even a little and she just SNAPS the other way.

I am running the update now, will be interesting to see what it feels like. The size of these games is absolutely ridiculous, I have GT7, GTS, Spiderman and Miles Morales and my PS4 is full. Its insane.

 

[///M3]

I agree with the comment above re. the car snapping back wildy. So you lose a bit of rear grip, try to correct even a little and she just SNAPS the other way.

I am running the update now, will be interesting to see what it feels like. The size of these games is absolutely ridiculous, I have GT7, GTS, Spiderman and Miles Morales and my PS4 is full. Its insane.

I rolled my real life M3 (E36) by accelerating to hard off of roundabout on my way back from the shops. The rears spun up, it started to rotate, I corrected....probably a bit too much and lifted off too much. End result is the car was a write off, I had to climb out of it while was upside down in a ditch full of water with a broken collar bone and missing a shoe!??!

When the grip comes back the snap can be extremely violent....just saying.

The sizes are huuuuuuge!

 

[NevilleNobody]

Yeah but the mx5 does it in the game, all 150 HP!

 

[Hobson]

Default settings on the car, I took it easy over that jump too.



Edit:

To me there is something broken with the suspension, the default frequency is already minimum and the ride height is high. I lowered the dampers, and the car feels more or less the same over jumps. I can’t make the car any softer.

It’s unpredictable, even over small jumps. The AI are crashing because of it too.

Experimented with that crap last night, same issue that's going on with the ride height. I maxed out the frequency and it cut half the bounce out.

 

[fortbo]

Yeah but the mx5 does it in the game, all 150 HP!

Yeah and you can spin out a front wheel drive Honda Fit in real life too! Physics are fun

 

[Veinz]

Does TC feel less intrusive or is it just me?

 

[Pfei]

Does TC feel less intrusive or is it just me?

You mean after the update?