Gran Turismo 7 Physics
- Thread starter Shingo_civic
- 6,193 comments
- 497,350 views
- 552
Having spent more and more time with the game I still stand by the fact the physics seem squiffy.
I know theres macho men in these comments will be like nah bro this is exactly how things are irl, and you have to be a sadist like us to appreciate the struggle.
But frankly I think its a case of the Emperors new clothes going on. Nobody wants to address the elephant in the room that the physics are not right for what is essentially at the end of the day a game.
While I appreciate the grip levels of certain tyres and corners and certain cars will slide and kill a man with 1% too much braking and 1% too much steering angle, 1mm too much throttle. But let's not ignore that in the real world you would have a thousand bits of tactile feedback ques to tell you exactly what's going on under your buttocks.
In game we have none, but a wheel going light and visual ques that the wall is coming closer.
In PDs goals to create an even closer to real experience they've made it more numb than watching a live action lap on YouTube and being asked to feel where the grip is...
Like I've been saying I've finally got to the point where the game is playable by turning on TCS and Stability control... I say playable because is it as fun to take a car to the limit than it was in sport? Not at all. So I'm essentially going through the motions while the assists cancel out every twitch and numb every bit of feedback.
The flip side? Well I ran a stock 117bhp 1st gen MX5 around Maggiore and every single corner it would spin like a 1000bhp monster... every single time. Full throttle, half throttle, 1/4 throttle even no throttle that tiny perfectly balanced roadster would snap violently into a spin, no over steer, just a full on spin... it even did it at 23mph with not throttle input. So what's with that? The stability control light flickering or solid throughout even on straight roads...
I've had many friends with MX5s stock and tuned... all of them still alive and well without incident, one even lapped the Ring in his. These are normal folks not Fangio yet you guys out there are honestly going to sit there and tell us that my mates were spinning out of control at car park speeds all the time? Because GT7 says so.
Look I know I'm ranting because I'm disappointed and frustrated that there's no fix to make this game fun to play. I dont want to have to stick all the assists on just to make it around a track? Never did that before in any GT game for the past 25 years.
As the old saying goes... im not angry,
I'm just disappointed.
I know theres macho men in these comments will be like nah bro this is exactly how things are irl, and you have to be a sadist like us to appreciate the struggle.
But frankly I think its a case of the Emperors new clothes going on. Nobody wants to address the elephant in the room that the physics are not right for what is essentially at the end of the day a game.
While I appreciate the grip levels of certain tyres and corners and certain cars will slide and kill a man with 1% too much braking and 1% too much steering angle, 1mm too much throttle. But let's not ignore that in the real world you would have a thousand bits of tactile feedback ques to tell you exactly what's going on under your buttocks.
In game we have none, but a wheel going light and visual ques that the wall is coming closer.
In PDs goals to create an even closer to real experience they've made it more numb than watching a live action lap on YouTube and being asked to feel where the grip is...
Like I've been saying I've finally got to the point where the game is playable by turning on TCS and Stability control... I say playable because is it as fun to take a car to the limit than it was in sport? Not at all. So I'm essentially going through the motions while the assists cancel out every twitch and numb every bit of feedback.
The flip side? Well I ran a stock 117bhp 1st gen MX5 around Maggiore and every single corner it would spin like a 1000bhp monster... every single time. Full throttle, half throttle, 1/4 throttle even no throttle that tiny perfectly balanced roadster would snap violently into a spin, no over steer, just a full on spin... it even did it at 23mph with not throttle input. So what's with that? The stability control light flickering or solid throughout even on straight roads...
I've had many friends with MX5s stock and tuned... all of them still alive and well without incident, one even lapped the Ring in his. These are normal folks not Fangio yet you guys out there are honestly going to sit there and tell us that my mates were spinning out of control at car park speeds all the time? Because GT7 says so.
Look I know I'm ranting because I'm disappointed and frustrated that there's no fix to make this game fun to play. I dont want to have to stick all the assists on just to make it around a track? Never did that before in any GT game for the past 25 years.
As the old saying goes... im not angry,
I'm just disappointed.
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- 287
- New Zealand
- Novice_Senior
All of which I did. Though, to be fair I really need to compare like for like. Like an NSX Gr4 vs. road going NSX, then I can copy the setup from the Gr4 car to the road car and compare. I'd like to know if you can get them handling in a similar fashion, or if there is something fundamental to Group cars that you'll never be able to replicate on GT7 with a road car.
- 3,052
- England
- kilesa4568
Definitely something to be proud of.
I can't believe how pixel perfect the top dozen drivers are nowadays but after seeing you lot enjoying the inaugural finals, they've had to be. Crazy standard.
I see there's maintenance tomorrow that mentioned something about an update. Fingers crossed it gets rid of some the frustration.
- 287
- New Zealand
- Novice_Senior
There is a video on this thread a little while back of someone taking the MX5 round the track in GT7 without issue. I used it too in game with very little mods (I think only SS tyres tbh) and it wasn't particularly hard to get round without binning it. You make it sound impossible but I think you may be exaggerating a little, no?
- 1,565
- United Kingdom
Doing wheelies down the hill at Lago Maggiore would counter the idea that the physics are beyond reproach. They need a tweak.
- 2,323
- United States
I doubt you can get a 1:1 match between a tuned road car and a GT4 car. My understanding of SRO rules for GT4 is that they are not road cars modded to become race cars. They are purpose-built for competition. Even teams can make their own; they don't have to buy it from a manufacturer. So in essence, attempting to tune a road car into a GT4 car would not work because the road version and the GT4 version are not the same car even though they share some similarities.
Of course, we really don't have much of an idea of how all these mods have been programmed by PD. Maybe a racing suspension tune for a road car is modeled differently than a racing suspension included in a Gr 4 car.
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- 82
- United States
I figured that out to.
Even braking early and coasting is a better strategy than what I used to do which was brake to the apex from high speed. It’s nuanced with my ham fists but lifting first and then braking is paying dividends for me. It’s a control shift I’m coming to terms with, also coasting more especially in sweeping corners.
- 287
- New Zealand
- Novice_Senior
- 2
- South Korea
VERY IMPORTANT MESSAGE!
There seems to be a bug, that could explain oversteery behavior of RWD cars. "Body height adjustment" seems to been interpreted inversely by the game, meaning that with more height you get more stability, which is absurd I guess. It's described in this post https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/bugged-ride-height-improve-handling.405372/
I've tested it and it seems to by true. I cranked body height all the way up, and tested with several RWD cars and they appear to no longer completely snap out of control with slightest oversteer even with 0 TCS, though you still have to be gentle with throttle input. And inversely, the less I put the height parameter the worse it gets with steering. Anyways, you should all try with your car setup and see if this is actually the case.
There seems to be a bug, that could explain oversteery behavior of RWD cars. "Body height adjustment" seems to been interpreted inversely by the game, meaning that with more height you get more stability, which is absurd I guess. It's described in this post https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/bugged-ride-height-improve-handling.405372/
I've tested it and it seems to by true. I cranked body height all the way up, and tested with several RWD cars and they appear to no longer completely snap out of control with slightest oversteer even with 0 TCS, though you still have to be gentle with throttle input. And inversely, the less I put the height parameter the worse it gets with steering. Anyways, you should all try with your car setup and see if this is actually the case.
- 82
- United States
- 107
- United Kingdom
impressive, there's no way i'm able to do that i've been trying for an hour I can't even get bronze
what wheel do you have and what assists if any?As someone who has done 30+ track events and spent 1000s of hours in sims, I can say GT7s physics engine is about 90% there, but misses out in two major areas. First one being when you're right at the edge of grip and the second being when you're beyond it. I drive an e92 m3 IRL and for having 400hp+, it's way more progressive in losing grip and controllable than GT7. I can almost steer the car with the throttle when I'm at the edge of rear grip. In GT7 that's impossible. Once traction breaks, it requires much more steering angle than IRL and much less throttle than IRL. It also snaps the opposite direction way too easily, which is why you see videos of players swinging from left to right. The tire takes much longer to regain traction as well. This is more noticeable in the rain events. I'm almost tempted to not use the wheel as it will develop a bad habit in my driving.
Just my 2 cents.
Just my 2 cents.
- 5,652
- Edison NJ
- jdmking13
- Lucid killer 58
I hear everything your saying but I think your beating yourself up for no reason… I’m telling you I drive in a Porsche GT3 Cup league right here on GTP, some of these guys are aliens and everyone is a little nervous because we all know the physics are alive and pushing the car that we normally push at is going to lead to some interesting things 😂 at the same time we are all excited because the driving experience we all feel is way better than GTS!
I Gold all my license test bro and if a car had TC I used it.. I never used TC in GTS either but I don’t see why you feel it’s a bad thing it’s a good thing! If we took everyone in here at a track 8/10 would not turn the electronic aids of the car… finally GT has went into the right step even if it seems aggressive right now.
I’m doing the pan American championship right now with my ZL1 Camera 1LE it’s stock with RM and I use TCS 2 and I’m having a great time! Just keep practicing you will eventually get it!
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- 5,652
- Edison NJ
- jdmking13
- Lucid killer 58
@MadmuppGT
@s0cks
Stock Miata stock tires no electronic aids except ABS weak. The car is just old and soft so that’s what made it challenging.
@s0cks
Stock Miata stock tires no electronic aids except ABS weak. The car is just old and soft so that’s what made it challenging.
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- 287
- New Zealand
- Novice_Senior
Woah, chill man. I'll test again with sport tyres in each and compare.
Ah right, that explains a lot then. Thanks! Maybe the body rigidity upgrade would help then?
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- 5,652
- Edison NJ
- jdmking13
- Lucid killer 58
Just reading how @MadmuppGT is struggling with the stock Miata which I don’t believe he is making things up or being unfair, but in the end the car is not hard to drive. This again does not take from the fact if he is having trouble catching on to the new physics, however it also does not make it automatically where something is wrong with the game. Yes the cars are a lot more lively. And GTS style of driving is going to not make driving the cars any easier. The game has not been out for a week and just because people caught on to the physics already means nothing. Just keep practicing and As others and I said I’m willing to help anyone we can set up a track day and practice together!
- 3,987
- Chicago
- fortbo
- fortbo
The AMG GT GT4 actually is very close to the production chassis, mainly with just more reinforcement with the roll cage. Talked with FCP Euro who runs them this past summer and I was pretty shocked wirh the amount that they share when the road car. It’s definitely possible to make a road car as fast or even faster than a GT4 for sure. The class that I race in actually runs a bit faster than GT4 at the front with street tires. But we also run more downforce and more power. With slicks the pace would be somewhere between GT4 and GT3. The main reason why it’s tough to make a road car identical in performance to a GT4 with an identical setup is the suspension, access to data and the ability to read that data in order to setup the car properly, and a few other factors such as weight and rigidity. Having a team of engineers and factory support certainly helps too. But that’s the case in the real world, I’m not sure how accurately you could replicate a GT4 with a road car in game.
Edit:
Here’s the two chassis compared:
As you can see they’re very similar
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Scaff
Moderator
- 29,433
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Here...
https://www.gt4europeanseries.com/images/documents/T01%20GT4%20%20Technical%20Regulations%202020.pdf
...under the bodywork, as it's a unibody construction that's what it comes under, its almost exactly the same in the BTCC/TCR regs which make up most of Gr. 4, as well as the GT3/GTE regs that make up a lot of Gr. 3.
It's only really when you get to the likes of JCTC, Super GT, and older (pre-GT3 adoption) DTM and the use of spaceframes that you start to get wildly away from base chassis being primarily homologation chassis.
Yes in some cases they do have additional or reinforced seam-welding, but that would be replicated by the chassis stiffness option,
It doesn't change the fact that they are still essentially the exact same chassis.
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- 3,052
- England
- kilesa4568
The weird grip loss can happen at all sorts of speeds and I've felt it happen in every FR car.
On another subject, has anyone felt like their brakes are locking up with ABS on? It happened to me a few times in the M3's and the '09 Porche today (dry track) and it felt very realistic. The brake light barely flickered to red while it happened so does that mean I had no ABS at the time?
- 2,323
- United States
I believe it is the materials that change between the road version and the GT4. The GT4 cars tend to use more expensive, lighter, more rigid materials (carbon fibre, aluminum, etc...) from what I could gather on the manufacturers' websites.
Anyway @s0cks there is the additional question mark that Scaff mentioned, which is: what exactly is a Gr. 4 car? PD bases them on GT4 cars but who knows to what degree.
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