Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[newmedia_dev]

I was never condescending to you.
Where's your guys back bone?

Read your own quote and previous words, your lack of emotional intelligence is quite profound.

I mean seriously, read that one quote that you said and how its meaning doesn't reflect the actual words. Emotional intelligence my friend.

Good for you that you found a solution to your issue. Sweet.
Nevertheless I don't truly believe that you even tried my recommended settings, let alone you even read them.

It's not solved just PD settings are better at minimising than yours. I tried them, they don't work for me because honestly driving an MX 5 with a 4 torque setting is not the level of mechanical feedback you actually get in that car just as an example.

I think you get high on your own supply

Assuming you're using the DD Pro as seen in your pictures or video you posted, I highly question your disagreement on my settings as you clearly are not able to compare apples to pears.
But I can assure you that Torque wise the DD+ set to 4/9 offers quite the same forces and even a bit more as on the DD Pro with 7/9 in game Values

This is a pretty clever misdirect if I'm being honest, I don't need to compare apples to oranges as I'm asking for help with apples so your oranges advice is pretty useless quite frankly.

Assuming you're using the DD Pro as seen in your pictures or video you posted, I highly question your disagreement on my settings as you clearly are not able to compare apples to pears.
But I can assure you that Torque wise the DD+ set to 4/9 offers quite the same forces and even a bit more as on the DD Pro with 7/9 in game Values.
Still, feel free to disagree, fair play.

"Assuming" it's my wheel with a video, a picture a YouTube channel, 3k races using it...

"Assuming" come on be real for fk sake.

The peak torque is there and "assuming"what you are saying is correct I actually run more torque with a higher peak than you do, consistently less overall torque but a higher consistent value. So arguably I need less peak torque that none of us run at :/ dude. Again high on your own supply or hubris.

Edit: being very very candid, whilst it's cool to dissect posts it's pretty bad etiquette to do that and offer nothing of value than just waffle.

I will leave this thread because I can't stomach your replies, they just don't match the tone of the thread or add any value other than "you are right" and "assuming" I'm not even sat in the rig that I got my wife to record the issue I came here with.

Your attitude sucks and the false sense of authority or hubris is quite sad, nearly as much as your settings and I'm not one for back handed insults or being patronising. I'm more than happy to call a spade a spade.

You don't present very well, nor are you endearing or helpful. But on the plus side you know everything. Good job 👍

 

[Scaff]

Yes I just watched it.
Is that a PlaySeat Trophy your Base is attached to?
I have a PlaySeat Trophy and I can confirm that it sounds exactly the same like in your video.
So nothing to worry about other then indeed it makes me wonder how good it is for the internals.
Though I'm not sure if it's just the resonance of the attachment points the base is mounted to.
I might eventually try to put swap the metal washers with some shock absorbing rubber washers... Might be worth a try.
Because I can't imagine that this horrific sounding vibration is actually happening internally.

I've the same rig with a Moza R9 mounted to it, which pushes a Nm of torque above the DD, on no sim at all does it get close to sounding like that.

 

[Kriptical]

Your local car mechanic must have been a pretty familiar face to you, thanks to your assumingly quite often visits for car wishbone and tire maintenance 😁👍

Eventually yeah. I thought it was some sort of H bracket which cracked and needed replacement. Can't remember. Wasn't so bad for tires as it was a hard pack dirt driveway. As for the mechanic, yeah we were friends. His shop was around the corner from mine so they would come get my car whenever stuff needed doing. He was a weekend racer too so he was cool about things. It was a work vehicle and my wife and I the owners. It was my beater, and fun. Not for nothing, this all went on inside 50 acres. Nobody was going to surprise me, or accidentally get in the way. If anything went wrong or I rolled the sucker it was only myself to worry about.

Unless you're doing something weird, that would be your rear tyres, and what we feel through the steering in this regard would be the front tyres and relate to understeer, not oversteer.

If I were to have just jammed on the brakes and slid to a stop...that would have been profoundly sad...and boring... Anyway, the driveway opened up at the top and I would induce slide in all sorts of ways. Often at the end trying to turn just enough to gently break grip and rotate into a 'spot.' Others I would mimic and evasive wheel yank. Whether exploring grip limits, acting like one of the duke boys...or just plain mad..it was an everyday thing so 🤷‍♂️ did it all..it was a decade after all.. The wheels sometimes chattered hard. Not a good feeling, but not that different than what the DDX was doing yesterday. I really did have to try to make it happen though. Lots of load on the tires, yanking it hard. Still, it didn't feel like to much, the sound was unpleasant, jarring, but its kinda supposed to be, no?

As far as the technical explanation, I do appreciate it. Never really bothered with much of that stuff, except for an old skip barber syllabus back in the mid 90s. Its just by feel and for fun..and what I'm saying with the slide thing in GT is that, while imperfect, its done a good job of expressing what's going on. Which I guess can be expressed by stating that my body responds to the FFB and corrects the issue before my eyes and brain notice. Which was happening much less before. Also, in the not for nothing department, almost all of my driving experience's shared here pertain to rear wheel drive, front engine vehicles. Im used to the front being weird. These days, I have an AWD outback. Its completely different, and as much as gt7's is imperfect, it doesn't feel any weirder than going from AWD to RWD..so brain buys it enough and life's good. Prior to the update this largely seemed to only be expressed with weight fluctuation, which isn't always the whole story.

 

[PirovacBoy]

I've the same rig with a Moza R9 mounted to it, which pushes a Nm of torque above the DD, on no sim at all does it get close to sounding like that.

Well that's quite concerning then.
I mainly play GT7 so I can't comment on other Sims, but I trust your statements.
What do you think what could this sound be then?
Any ideas?

Read your own quote and previous words, your lack of emotional intelligence is quite profound.

I mean seriously, read that one quote that you said and how its meaning doesn't reflect the actual words. Emotional intelligence my friend.

Read that one quote? ... Instead of being precise on what exactly you mean lots of waffle and hot air.
Pointless, why even quote?

It's not solved just PD settings are better at minimising than yours.

Might be and I could exactly describe why it probably might be better than mines, but I highly doubt that it would interest you at this point.

I tried them, they don't work for me

I don't believe you having tried them but that's just my assumption.
Your tone just doesn't sound honest.
Maybe I'm wrong though but something is fishy here.

driving an MX 5 with a 4 torque setting is not the level of mechanical feedback you actually get in that car just as an example.

Just as a quick reminder, we talking about an mx5 right?
A production car on oem tires, right.?
I'm pretty convinced that a torque setting on 4 does a very accurate output of actual real world forces.
So unless you personally haven't driven and measured them values, I rather trust the word of a real world racer who just lately stated that this car produces forces at around 3 to 6NM of Torque in the Steering Wheel.
Which pretty much exactly matches the raw number that a Torque setting of 4 on the DD+ reproduces.
So a more precise explanation of where you got that example from would shed some light on your claim.

I think you get high on your own supply

Bro are you trippin' on me?

This is a pretty clever misdirect if I'm being honest, I don't need to compare apples to oranges as I'm asking for help with apples so your oranges advice is pretty useless quite frankly.

Mate, if you would have tried to use your apparently and unfortunately non existing ability to comprehend logical conclusions you should have easily been able to understand the context. Instead, you absolutely have no clue what you're talking hence you completely missed the point.

The peak torque is there and "assuming"what you are saying is correct I actually run more torque with a higher peak than you do,

Ok again, you definitely don't understand how this Torque thing works do you?!
Quick excursion.
A DD+ technically offers a constant output of 15NM with peaks even exceeding and reaching up to most likely 20NM according to statements by Fanatec themselves as well as people having measured and proven it.
A DD Pro offers 5NM or 8NM of peak Torque and 6 NM of constant Torque, depending on the power supply being used.
Now it gets interesting.
Without explaining it here and now in detail, I make it simple.
Doubling the Torque output DOESN'T just only double the Forces in the Wheel, The forces increase exponentially.
Means that you can not compare the same Torque Values in game settings between different Wheelbase Models.
6NM of constant peak Torque means that for the example in GT7, the in game Torque slider goes from 1 to 10.
So the minimal force would be 0.6 constant and 0.8 as a max set to 1 Torque in game or 6NM Constant and 8NM as a Max output set to 10 Torque in game.
Now do the math's for the DD+.
1 would be 1.5 or 2NM and 10 would be 15 or 20NM of constant / Peak output.
So 4 on a DD Pro compared to 4 on a DD+ are world's apart in terms of forces in the Steering wheel.
Not just on raw numbers but like explained exponentially.
DD Pro 4 in game is 3.2 NM Max whereas DD+ 4 in game is 6NM Max.
Now that we know that torque increase works exponentially I don't think I have much more to add, as how much of a difference it is, do I?

Again high on your own supply or hubris

Mate you really tripping on me or what? Get a grip Bro.

offer nothing of value than just waffle.

Compared to your blatant accusations, I at least stay on topic and actually DO provide tons of useful information and heaps of value, but unfortunately your discernment has left the chat quite a few posts ago.
You rather decided to play the insulted ego, despite me having said that I do respect you and others here.
I asked you if we cool and you said with your own words “yes we are cool".
So acting dishonest on purpose and lying shows me and proves how much of non integrity of a person you are.
This is quite shabby to be honest.

I will leave this thread because I can't stomach your replies, they just don't match the tone of the thread or add any value

I bet at this point you definitely should have a reason to not stomach my replies anymore.
Always double check your tone too mate.
Check mate.

Your attitude sucks and the false sense of authority or hubris is quite sad, nearly as much as your settings and I'm not one for back handed insults or being patronising. I'm more than happy to call a spade a spade.

Ok this is just blatantly disrespectful hence I can't take your claim personal.
It's laughable at this point, you are laughable and to be honest I'm not even angry or look back in anger.
Sad behavior against someone who never insulted you or has tried to miscredit you and your issue.
It was actually YOU who came upon me with a question and even questioning me and my statements at first.
Yet I tried to respond as polite as possible without directly critsizing you.
Maybe a subtle hint on self reflection but come on... If THAT did already left a scratch on your ego, I don't know man.
I thought you're a grown up.

You don't present very well, nor are you endearing or helpful. But on the plus side you know everything

Well I'd like to just simply play back the ball and let common sense here decide how much of a sincerely person I am or not.
Because quite frankly I think I provided more then enough helpful statements.
And I definitely don't know everything but me compared to you am always open to some critic and can handle constructive critisizm like a grown up adult should be capable of... unfortunately Which cannot be said about you.
Ace of Spade 😏

 

[Galvston]

On other news, about physics and not FFB, PD fixed the superbird finally. It drives more realistic now, no more banana random oversteer and really transfers it's weight. Now it drives like the heavy long awkward car it is.

 

[LSFDRX]

Well that's quite concerning then.
I mainly play GT7 so I can't comment on other Sims, but I trust your statements.
What do you think what could this sound be then?
Any ideas?
Read that one quote? ... Instead of being precise on what exactly you mean lots of waffle and hot air.
Pointless, why even quote?


Might be and I could exactly describe why it probably might be better than mines, but I highly doubt that it would interest you at this point.


I don't believe you having tried them but that's just my assumption.
Your tone just doesn't sound honest.
Maybe I'm wrong though but something is fishy here.


Just as a quick reminder, we talking about an mx5 right?
A production car on oem tires, right.?
I'm pretty convinced that a torque setting on 4 does a very accurate output of actual real world forces.
So unless you personally haven't driven and measured them values, I rather trust the word of a real world racer who just lately stated that this car produces forces at around 3 to 6NM of Torque in the Steering Wheel.
Which pretty much exactly matches the raw number that a Torque setting of 4 on the DD+ reproduces.
So a more precise explanation of where you got that example from would shed some light on your claim.


Bro are you trippin' on me?


Mate, if you would have tried to use your apparently and unfortunately non existing ability to comprehend logical conclusions you should have easily been able to understand the context. Instead, you absolutely have no clue what you're talking hence you completely missed the point.


Ok again, you definitely don't understand how this Torque thing works do you?!
Quick excursion.
A DD+ technically offers a constant output of 15NM with peaks even exceeding and reaching up to most likely 20NM according to statements by Fanatec themselves as well as people having measured and proven it.
A DD Pro offers 5NM or 8NM of peak Torque and 6 NM of constant Torque, depending on the power supply being used.
Now it gets interesting.
Without explaining it here and now in detail, I make it simple.
Doubling the Torque output DOESN'T just only double the Forces in the Wheel, The forces increase exponentially.
Means that you can not compare the same Torque Values in game settings between different Wheelbase Models.
6NM of constant peak Torque means that for the example in GT7, the in game Torque slider goes from 1 to 10.
So the minimal force would be 0.6 constant and 0.8 as a max set to 1 Torque in game or 6NM Constant and 8NM as a Max output set to 10 Torque in game.
Now do the math's for the DD+.
1 would be 1.5 or 2NM and 10 would be 15 or 20NM of constant / Peak output.
So 4 on a DD Pro compared to 4 on a DD+ are world's apart in terms of forces in the Steering wheel.
Not just on raw numbers but like explained exponentially.
DD Pro 4 in game is 3.2 NM Max whereas DD+ 4 in game is 6NM Max.
Now that we know that torque increase works exponentially I don't think I have much more to add, as how much of a difference it is, do I?



Mate you really tripping on me or what? Get a grip Bro.


Compared to your blatant accusations, I at least stay on topic and actually DO provide tons of useful information and heaps of value, but unfortunately your discernment has left the chat quite a few posts ago.
You rather decided to play the insulted ego, despite me having said that I do respect you and others here.
I asked you if we cool and you said with your own words “yes we are cool".
So acting dishonest on purpose and lying shows me and proves how much of non integrity of a person you are.
This is quite shabby to be honest.



I bet at this point you definitely should have a reason to not stomach my replies anymore.
Always double check your tone too mate.
Check mate.


Ok this is just blatantly disrespectful hence I can't take your claim personal.
It's laughable at this point, you are laughable and to be honest I'm not even angry or look back in anger.
Sad behavior against someone who never insulted you or has tried to miscredit you and your issue.
It was actually YOU who came upon me with a question and even questioning me and my statements at first.
Yet I tried to respond as polite as possible without directly critsizing you.
Maybe a subtle hint on self reflection but come on... If THAT did already left a scratch on your ego, I don't know man.
I thought you're a grown up.


Well I'd like to just simply play back the ball and let common sense here decide how much of a sincerely person I am or not.
Because quite frankly I think I provided more then enough helpful statements.
And I definitely don't know everything but me compared to you am always open to some critic and can handle constructive critisizm like a grown up adult should be capable of... unfortunately Which cannot be said about you.
Ace of Spade 😏

 

[Mumster]

Anyone test with ABS off? I’m finding it way easier to control. No more ice skating. Not saying it’s faster but maybe a driver with real skill could get it to be.

 

[SnakeEyes427]

View attachment 1426378

Holy Wall of text man! Does he expact to read all that? I having grinding to do or I will never get all the big birds for sale...


Hey, can you fix me one of them drinks too? I have a feeling we have a long road ahead of us......

 

[Kriptical]

Holy Wall of text man! Does he expact to read all that? I having grinding to do or I will never get all the big birds for sale...


Hey, can you fix me one of them drinks too? I have a feeling we have a long road ahead of us......

Yeah.. pretty sure the drinks are what made the people all sensi..

 

[Nebuc72]

Anyone test with ABS off? I’m finding it way easier to control. No more ice skating. Not saying it’s faster but maybe a driver with real skill could get it to be.

I found ABS off faster in the 'brief' tests I've done. The modified ABS/braking is quite punishing now for my driving style and without ABS I can keep more rotation going through the corner.

I don't think it'd be the overall fastest way to play once you've adapted to the physics though.

 

[sonnyboychris]

Ps: i swear abs off has the best braking snd car feel ffb in game.

Ok.... You and @PirovacBoy were not lying. I'll have to adjust my pedals (somehow) because I don't have much travel before I experience a lock up. It'll take some tweaking and practice but I enjoyed it.

 

[hawkeyez]

This latest update actually gives you back some traction. The cars can slide, they can oversteer and you can actually catch it. I’m not good at drifting, especially with a wheel, but if you do get the back end to come out a bit you can save it. The previous version made it mostly impossible to recover from a slide and understeer was rampant.

I find this tire modeling to be much closer to what we got with the big update. I think it was v1.39.

Yeah I raced on Sunday. It seems better overall. Again, it’s different, spun out a few times but then you figure out the FFB feeling changes and learn it. I think it’s better.

Somebody posted a video about slip angle. I agree with how slip angle works and also understand racing tires give you way less notice.

The issue is in a game, that needs to be widened some as we don’t have our inner ear working for us. It’s winter here now, our roads are icy as can be. When your vehicle breaks traction and the car stats to twist ever so slightly, you feel it immediately! And you don’t feel this in your steering wheel.

Until we all have rigs that shift the back end left or right quickly… even an inch, we have to rely on what we hear and what we feel in the wheel. So GT7 could indeed be accurate as heck, so could other sim racing games, but we don’t actually need accuracy since we’re not in vehicles, we need informative and a little bit of extra duration of when the tires are actually slipping.

An example, I noticed when our front tires scrub after this last update, we get vibration. Nice. Only it feels like somebody flicked an on/off switch for vibration when it happens. It goes brrrr and when your not scrubbing ithe brrr goes away. It should fade in quickly and fade out. It feels on or off to me which is a little bit disorienting imo. The first time it happened for a split second I thought my wheel messed up. It would be nice to be taking a corner and that FFB effect fade in and out not just suddenly appear and suddenly go away. Haha

 

[Bojador]

I didn't play the game for almost a month, but I like the new physics. They feel mostly the same for me in a gr3 car, but I do feel the car slides less on a lateral position. I don't quite know how to explain it, but before sometimes it felt like the car was sliding on all 4 tyres mid corner. Now I feel the car takes the corner better and I'm able to keep the car on the inside. Maybe that's the load grip they mention? I feel more confident pushing the car without feeling like it's on rails and that is a good thing.

I hope that makes sense (probably not).

 

[Tommy_D]

Yeah I raced on Sunday. It seems better overall. Again, it’s different, spun out a few times but then you figure out the FFB feeling changes and learn it. I think it’s better.

Somebody posted a video about slip angle. I agree with how slip angle works and also understand racing tires give you way less notice.

The issue is in a game, that needs to be widened some as we don’t have our inner ear working for us. It’s winter here now, our roads are icy as can be. When your vehicle breaks traction and the car stats to twist ever so slightly, you feel it immediately! And you don’t feel this in your steering wheel.

Until we all have rigs that shift the back end left or right quickly… even an inch, we have to rely on what we hear and what we feel in the wheel. So GT7 could indeed be accurate as heck, so could other sim racing games, but we don’t actually need accuracy since we’re not in vehicles, we need informative and a little bit of extra duration of when the tires are actually slipping.

An example, I noticed when our front tires scrub after this last update, we get vibration. Nice. Only it feels like somebody flicked an on/off switch for vibration when it happens. It goes brrrr and when your not scrubbing ithe brrr goes away. It should fade in quickly and fade out. It feels on or off to me which is a little bit disorienting imo. The first time it happened for a split second I thought my wheel messed up. It would be nice to be taking a corner and that FFB effect fade in and out not just suddenly appear and suddenly go away. Haha

Try taking some classic cars from the '60s in stock form out to Willow Springs. Big Willow has that big carousel to go around where the car will try to push the front out from under you. You can get a good feel for the front tires grip levels. I don't find that my Thrustmaster T300 has an on/off switch feel for the tires scrubbing. If push too hard, the tires will go from scrubbing to suddenly losing all grip. Slow down a touch and the front catches again.

 

[hawkeyez]

Try taking some classic cars from the '60s in stock form out to Willow Springs. Big Willow has that big carousel to go around where the car will try to push the front out from under you. You can get a good feel for the front tires grip levels. I don't find that my Thrustmaster T300 has an on/off switch feel for the tires scrubbing. If push too hard, the tires will go from scrubbing to suddenly losing all grip. Slow down a touch and the front catches again.

I’ll give that a try. It definitely felt very on and off to me. I don’t think I push it that much. I have the G Pro wheel. Could be a setting in that I may have to adjust.