Gran Turismo 7's New Deep Forest Layout Revealed in 4K Cockpit Video

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Is there any reason that we can’t have the original AND revised layouts of these tracks?
If, IF they add a course maker the same as GT6 or improved, this could be a possibility. That's the only way I see it happening.

However, why would they show the old map in their teaser? Surely they should have posted a picture of the track name sign?🤔
 
.However, why would they show the old map in their teaser? Surely they should have posted a picture of the track name sign?🤔
Because its the one people reconize? They've been playing up the nostalgia since the first trailer they had so of course they were gonna tease using the old map.
 
Best thing about this video is this new cockpit cam. I think it showcases a marvellous balance of camera shake and movement to enhance the sensation of speed, without going overboard in the slightest to the point that it feels artificial or might interfere with the player's ability to concentrate. Feels like just the right amount to me. Well done, PD.
 
I made a video to show the evolution of Deep Forest from GT1 to GT7.
In my opinion the GT3 and GT4 version are the best. I really don´t like the changes they made for GT7. :ouch:
Of course it became more FIA like and the new hairpin adds a new possibility to overtake but I think this destroyed some of the flair this track had in the past. I would really like it if they add a "classic" layout of tracks like Trial Mountain and Deep Forest like they did with Le Mans or Fuji in the past.👍


I watched the video. Funny that the GT1 race was by far the most dynamic. The GT7 race was by far the least dynamic with traction control seemingly sucking all the fun out of the lap. A better tuned car and a braver driver would have made for a much more exciting video. PD really need to up their promotion game because my replays are far more thrilling than pretty much anything they have shown so far.
 
It's
Best thing about this video is this new cockpit cam. I think it showcases a marvellous balance of camera shake and movement to enhance the sensation of speed, without going overboard in the slightest to the point that it feels artificial or might interfere with the player's ability to concentrate. Feels like just the right amount to me. Well done, PD.
pretty good,the vertical movement is a bit much sometimes,the driver's head sinks below the wheel too much,and it feels like you're losing visibility.Lateral movement is perfect right now.
 
Wish they had least left a alternate layout to the hair pin
 

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Imagine if PD redesigned the Nurburgring to make it more suitable for higher class racing and overtaking. Would that be acceptable?

I'm happy to see classic tracks come back, but they really are spoiling the character that made them special. Originally they didn't have to follow the rules or adhere to safety standards. They were simply tracks designed by a team with an imagination of what a spectacular track would be. And they were. That gets lost here when you start designing them for the real world. They were always supposed to be fantasy tracks, but now fantasy is turning into reality and as a result becoming more generic and watered down. They all start to look and feel similar rather than unique.

Still great to have to have them "back"... but it's not the same. Would be nice to at least have true classic variations of all these tracks, although realistically I wouldn't expect it due to all the work that would have to go into it. I did appreciate the classic Monza they put in the GT6 Senna DLC, but it'd be a lot more involved to recreate the classic designs and atmosphere on these fantasy tracks.

I'd also say this revised Deep Forest final sector is welcome as a new variation, but I'd hope there's another variation available with the old final sector intact. Those final two corners were very much a part of Deep Forest's DNA -- particularly the final corner, which was a significant test of bravery, now reduced to a kink.
Funny you should say that because Deep Forest reminds me of a miniature Nurburgring with all the trees and wild elevation changes through the corners.
 
I don't have an issue with the update layout to Deep Forest at all. In fact I like the extended run to the new hairpin and the pretty cool looking stretch from there to the finish line.
Exactly. It'll be a nice run to the line from slipstreaming Kei cars to LMPs navigation those crests and slight curves.
 
Yeah.... no.

Deep Forest isn't a street circuit now is it? Just visually looking at it you can reach this conclusion, it doesn't join on to any public road at any point or feature any visible hints of junctions and there's no road markings. You can make the same observation for Apricot Hill and Grand Valley Speedway too.

That's like complaining about the lack of gravel on a Formula E circuit that's located inside the ExCel Centre in London, and you're previous post, although I don't you realise it, was more or less the same thing as:

"What do you mean I can't play cricket with my baseball bat? It's a bat, they have have bats, I should be able to play cricket because a bat is just a bat, the only difference is how it looks"


@snowgt With Seattle the issue isn't the jumps, the issue is that some of those roads don't actually exist anymore.
the cutest thing here is thinking a fictitious track can't have a purely aesthetic visual design that happens in nature based on your own definition of what a "racing circuit" is, as if Mount Panorama isn't by all means a racing circuit, and one that's also based on public roads for scenic drives. The comparison to a mismatched type of road surface for a certain car type is hilarious and is of zero value.
 
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It looks like Gran Turismo :) but it sounds like Gran Turismo :(

They got the V12 sample just right, best I've heard so far in any GT. But those shifting sounds are painfully awful. After playing FH5 it makes it even more obvious. It just baffles my mind how PD has always struggled so much with car sounds.

Other than that, the game looks beautiful, the cockpit camera and animations are the most realistic I've seen and although it's difficult to judge from a video, the physics look pretty good! The F.O.V is just a bit too claustrophobic in my opinion, but I'm sure it can be adjusted.

And I like the new Deep Forest layout! It's not the first time they change it. First time I saw this video, I immediately thought of the license test you used to take on it in older games, like with the Honda Civic EK and the S2000. Pure nostalgia right there!
 
It'd still be very unrealistic for LMPs and similar to race at a track like this in real life, it's not meant to be some huge international racing complex which is equipped for F1 racing and the like, with 100,000 spectators.

It was always designed and felt like a small, local club style circuit for touring cars and below and it's a shame that we seem to be losing all of these, replaced by more soulless, big, clean complexes.
Trial mountain looks great, high speed ring looks great. The biggest change is here with deep Forrest. What are ”all” these soulless replacements you speak of?
 
the cutest thing here is thinking a fictitious track can't have a purely aesthetic visual design that happens in nature based on your own definition of what a "racing circuit" is, as if Mount Panorama isn't by all means a racing circuit, and one that's also based on public roads for scenic drives. The comparison to a mismatched type of road surface for a certain car type is hilarious and is of zero value.
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Read it again, because at this point the only response you deserve is "KEKW", but congratulations on what you think is winning the internet?
 
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Well I've had 16 car races in GT5 and GT6 at DF and it was fine. IRL GT3 cars race on Nurburgring just fine as well. As I said before, not every corner on every track has to be overtake-able. Dogfighting in racing can be a lot more subtle than passing and repassing every corner. There's pit strategy, offsetting racing line, mental pressure, etc.

As for dirty driving, yes it will always exist. But track design goes a long way to encourage/discourage it. Long straight followed by low speed corner by its nature will always encourage divebombing because the speed delta between corner entry and apex is larger than in a high speed corner. Kinda hard to divebomb someone into 130R isn't it? Much easier into the chicane after it ;)

Remember 85% of players in GTS never touch sport mode. These track changes just ruin the offline experience for no reason for them.

Also if you look at it, PD is giving off false advertising showing off the old DF layout in the trailer, and then dropping this change. It's like they want all the older fans to preorder the game, but then say screw you, GT game is now about the future and that is esports.

Funnily enough, we had a couple of FIA races in GT Sport with Gr.3 cars at Tsukuba. So PD isn't opposed to putting cars on tracks that aren't naturally suited to them.

Deep Forest, even the original version, is like driving on a four lane highway compared to that :lol:



It's the quality of the overtakes, not the quantity my friend. Though looking at your SR trace on kudosprime, you probably aim to overtake in every corner anyway, passing zone or not :lol:

Ask and ye shall receive. It's like a horror movie :scared:



Might as well remove all fictional tracks while we're at it. And make you pay for travel expenses to every circuit. And fuel and tyres. And insurance. And every time you crash you get "hospitalised" and can't enter the game for a month.

Realistic right? ;)

------------------

Anyway, trying to complain to PD is like shouting into the void. I've already made all my points clear in the big Original Track Redesign thread. It's your game Kaz, not mine. We'll see how well received the redesigns are on release day ;)

Nice, another one to add to the list. :dunce:
 
The track and environment redesign is trying to give it the effect of a track which looks vaguely like it could pass real-world scrutineering. On the sliding scale of fantasy (0) vs realism (10), PD are at about a 7-8, visually. Particularly with refreshing fictional tracks. Debateable whether it's a good or bad thing.
That doesn't at all confirm, and based on GTS which seems to be where people get the idea, even fictional tracks were not heavily driven design wise by the FIA.
 
After watching the trailer a few times, I'm not particularly fond of the redesign. It's overall a lot flatter, wider, and what elevation is present is longer and a lot less intense. I'm assuming the changes were made for the sake of multiplayer as well as to better facilitate high-performance cars.

Sector 3 is by far my biggest gripe. It's basically just a long straight, into a tight hairpin, into effectively another long straight. The final turn being so wide and banked is also a bit of a turn-off (heh). I get the feeling that this was done to make it less risky and allow for some creative overtaking, but it seems a lot less challenging compared to the old circuit, in which the final turn to the start/finish could be a bit tricky if you didn't position yourself well and/or missed the chance to hit the apex. Overall it looks a bit boring, imo. I think the sector could be a bit more neat if the hairpin was banked, though I'm admittedly not sure if that would actually be "better" per se.

The overall atmosphere is so-so for me. It definitely looks like a more realistic venue, but the old Deep Forest felt like, well, like you were driving through a deep forest. It was almost like parts of the track were a tunnel made up of trees, which I always enjoyed.

Overall, not crazy about it. If it were up to me, I'd include the old Deep Forest as an alternate layout for lower-end and/or smaller grid races, and the new Deep Forest for races with bigger grids and/or higher-performing cars. Or do what PD did with Fuji in GT4 and include a "Deep Forest 90s" circuit.
 
After watching the trailer a few times, I'm not particularly fond of the redesign. It's overall a lot flatter, wider, and what elevation is present is longer and a lot less intense. I'm assuming the changes were made for the sake of multiplayer as well as to better facilitate high-performance cars.

Sector 3 is by far my biggest gripe. It's basically just a long straight, into a tight hairpin, into effectively another long straight. The final turn being so wide and banked is also a bit of a turn-off (heh). I get the feeling that this was done to make it less risky and allow for some creative overtaking, but it seems a lot less challenging compared to the old circuit, in which the final turn to the start/finish could be a bit tricky if you didn't position yourself well and/or missed the chance to hit the apex. Overall it looks a bit boring, imo. I think the sector could be a bit more neat if the hairpin was banked, though I'm admittedly not sure if that would actually be "better" per se.

The overall atmosphere is so-so for me. It definitely looks like a more realistic venue, but the old Deep Forest felt like, well, like you were driving through a deep forest. It was almost like parts of the track were a tunnel made up of trees, which I always enjoyed.

Overall, not crazy about it. If it were up to me, I'd include the old Deep Forest as an alternate layout for lower-end and/or smaller grid races, and the new Deep Forest for races with bigger grids and/or higher-performing cars. Or do what PD did with Fuji in GT4 and include a "Deep Forest 90s" circuit.
What would have made the most sense, would have been for them to be a bit more faithful to the old tracks, while adding new layouts that accommodated faster cars.
 
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That doesn't at all confirm, and based on GTS which seems to be where people get the idea, even fictional tracks were not heavily driven design wise by the FIA.
They're not driven by the FIA, no, but it's clear that PD broadly speaking are moving more towards realistic tracks than their early PS1 and PS2 efforts which were mostly nothing like real world tracks in design/layout/assets. Look at tracks like Grindelwald, El Capitan, old Deep Forest. They were very much fantasy tracks, just realistic enough to not think you're playing Wipeout or even Ridge Racer but would never pass as real world tracks, and that was fine, if we wanted real world tracks they arrived in GT3 and GT4.

Since Sport all of their tracks have tried to look like more real world tracks with tarmac runoff areas at many corners, safety barriers, catch fencing, two lane roads that are somehow wider than a highway, marshal posts, etc. Now again we see that same shift with Deep Forest, to a degree. The design of that new hairpin is right out of the modern circuit handbook.

Again, clearly they were not designed with the FIA involved, nor would they meet FIA safety standards. They're still 100% PD creations, but their direction in track design has clearly shifted.
 
Lastly, take this from someone who's photographed races at Le Mans and Nurburgring since 2015 in regard to the tree-cover:
Having trees over-hanging the track to the extent they were in previous games is actually pretty unrealistic given the types of tree in question. Some of the trees that are within 5-10m of those two tracks are probably over 100 years old (in the case of the Nordschleife the track was actually there before the forest) and they're not even close to covering the track, you'll be lucky to find a tree that even reaches the grass, eg:

View attachment 1097958

This is the part of Le Mans has the densest tree cover between both tracks, if you look on the right, you'll notice the trees are barely going beyond the barrier, and trust me, those trees aren't trimmed otherwise I would have noticed the cuts. Over at the Nordschliefe the trees are actually further away from the track than that and in quite a lot places the trees are actually rooted a good few feet lower than the track surface.
I mean, you're right. A real life track isn't going to have trees overhanging the track purely for reasons of safety, even if they were willing to have trees that close to the edge of the circuit. Nobody wants a branch snapping from a gust of wind as cars fly past only to then fall on the track and spear through someone's windscreen. That's an easily foreseeable problem and one that's easily removed.

But in a game, and on a track that is named specifically for going through a forest, I feel like there's some room for willing suspension of disbelief. Particularly with a game that's willing to have tracks like Cape Ring or Eiger, or the freaking Moon. Realism is important, but it's pretty clearly a secondary priority to awesomeness.
@snowgt With Seattle the issue isn't the jumps, the issue is that some of those roads don't actually exist anymore.
It's also the jumps. Realistically, the jumps in Seattle and Cape Ring destroy anything that isn't a rally car pretty quickly. No way do race cars clear those, land cleanly and continue driving lap after lap. They're not designed for those forces and they don't have the suspension travel to absorb the energy. I doubt most road cars will last long either.

Is that a problem? Not for Gran Turismo. See above, realism is secondary to awesomeness. If jumps in Seattle are fine then a few trees across the road aren't even worth considering. One is the racing surface that is a core component of how the game is played, the other is visual flair only.
 
Because not every corner on a track needs to be an overtaking opportunity. If all you want in a race is overtaking, then the only tracks you need in the game are ovals. You can overtake everywhere you want. Easy right?

Once upon a time Gran Turismo original tracks were made with driving enjoyment in mind. Fast, flowing, high speed corners. Then GT Sport and esports arrives and every original track now comes with a deluge of chicanes and tight hairpins to promote overtaking. In reality all it does is just encourage punters and dirty driving. If you have clean respectful drivers, you can still have great races on the original Trial Mountain and Deep Forest. Set up your overtake a few corners in advance to get the guy in front to drive the wrong line and compromise his exit, then pass him neatly into the single overtaking zone on the track. It's a satisfying overtake instead of the typical slipstream>divebomb tactic with chicanes/hairpins.

Not every track has to be a Fuji/Monza copy. On the flipside not every track has to be Trial Mt/Deep Forest. Variety is the spice of life, but GTS/7 tracks all start to seem very cookie cutter now.
I would hardly say that GT tracks are of the "cookie cutter" variety, they just share some common assets. Maggiore, Dragon Trail and Sardegna all have a different feel to them with individual features that we like. Those tracks were all built from the ground up with overtaking opportunities in mind and they're brilliant. I've had some great races at each of those locations so I welcome the updates to the classic tracks because processional racing is boring. Also, saying that the tracks will encourage dirty driving isn't a strong enough argument because punters are gonna punt.
I'm curious about the track location. Kaz has always loved mountains and they're always in the background of original circuits. I wonder what these mountains closely resemble to, as Sardegna, Maggiore, Dragon Trail, and St. Croix had mountain ranges modeled accurately for driver sights. The road signage is modern and European, but the alps have been done many times and they're not snow capped here (I think)? I don't know much about land geography of the region.
I think it's either Austria, Germany or Switzerland.
But in a game, and on a track that is named specifically for going through a forest, I feel like there's some room for willing suspension of disbelief. Particularly with a game that's willing to have tracks like Cape Ring or Eiger, or the freaking Moon. Realism is important, but it's pretty clearly a secondary priority to awesomeness.
Gran Turismo isn't a fantasy game though. It has some grounding in reality.
 
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After watching the trailer a few times, I'm not particularly fond of the redesign. It's overall a lot flatter, wider, and what elevation is present is longer and a lot less intense. I'm assuming the changes were made for the sake of multiplayer as well as to better facilitate high-performance cars.

Sector 3 is by far my biggest gripe. It's basically just a long straight, into a tight hairpin, into effectively another long straight. The final turn being so wide and banked is also a bit of a turn-off (heh). I get the feeling that this was done to make it less risky and allow for some creative overtaking, but it seems a lot less challenging compared to the old circuit, in which the final turn to the start/finish could be a bit tricky if you didn't position yourself well and/or missed the chance to hit the apex. Overall it looks a bit boring, imo. I think the sector could be a bit more neat if the hairpin was banked, though I'm admittedly not sure if that would actually be "better" per se.

The overall atmosphere is so-so for me. It definitely looks like a more realistic venue, but the old Deep Forest felt like, well, like you were driving through a deep forest. It was almost like parts of the track were a tunnel made up of trees, which I always enjoyed.

Overall, not crazy about it. If it were up to me, I'd include the old Deep Forest as an alternate layout for lower-end and/or smaller grid races, and the new Deep Forest for races with bigger grids and/or higher-performing cars. Or do what PD did with Fuji in GT4 and include a "Deep Forest 90s" circuit.
From the video, the run to the finish has an ever so slight off-camber at the crest as it’s curves to the left. That’s enough of a challenge with cars of high speed and less downforce. Can also be a challenge with purpose built race cars. Players may get sucked into thinking they can navigate that bit flat out. No doubt, we’ll see if that’s possible.
It may be a wide section of track, but can it be taken two/three-wide and the car on the outside at risk of going off, due to that camber?

I‘ve already seen past the deforestation of the circuit. I just want to drive the cars. Maybe it’ll be a good circuit for testing. The classic layout gave us the tricky end of the circuit. It may have been a section that impacted right-side tyre wear by the end of a stint.
The updated section will be heavy braking and hard acceleration. So, a different dynamic than what those of us that experienced in the classic layout.
 
I definitely didn't like it. I found the changes in a bad taste. Removed all PERSONALITY or IDENTITY from the circuit. The feeling is that architecture was handed over from a Renaissance architect to a Modernist. I'm not against changes, but changes could maintain the SPIRITUAL IDENTITY of the circuit. Deep Forest has smooth curves, irregular angles and straight lines. But, I loved the dive situated on the last curve. The same changes could apply, however, keeping the SPIRIT of Deep Forest.

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Gran Turismo isn't a fantasy game though. It has some grounding in reality.
Right, and that's why we don't have anti-grav tracks. But clearly it's also not a slave to reality, hence why we have tracks with ludicrous jumps and that are on the Moon. Polyphony realises that there's a line between absolute realism and pure fantasy that they want to hit.

I'm not sure if you consider a game with a little bit of fantasy in it to be a "fantasy game", but that's what Gran Turismo is. It's far more reality than it is fantasy, but it's clearly not trying to be as realistic as possible either.
 
I definitely didn't like it. I found the changes in a bad taste. Removed all PERSONALITY or IDENTITY from the circuit. The feeling is that architecture was handed over from a Renaissance architect to a Modernist. I'm not against changes, but changes could maintain the SPIRITUAL IDENTITY of the circuit. Deep Forest has smooth curves, irregular angles and straight lines. But, he loved the dive situated on the last curve. The same changes could apply, however, keeping the SPIRIT of Deep Forest.

View attachment 1098047
That looks even worse. At least Neo-Deep Forest has layout adjustments that kind of make sense for whatever PD appears to be going for. Your redesign just makes the last section look even more conspicuous.
 
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