Gran Turismo HD officially canned - Next stop is GT5

[Dave A]

I have to say I've downloaded the video and watched in in full screen, it's more impressive than I first thought. I agree with Wolfe's point, it's currently lacking the lighting and shaddowing to give it that gritty realisitic look, however it's more impressinve than anything next gen I've seen so far.

 

[W00tn3ss]

GT HD Classic/Premium, what are the differences?

 

[Dave A]

Read the first post, all the ones we know are detailed there though some of it is still heavy speculation as not much has been officially confirmed and most of it has been translated.

 

[Pebb]

Has anyone watched the HD version of the trailer through an HDTV yet, but it is a shame us UK people will have to wait till March 06 for GT HD.

 

[Dave A]

I watched it in HD on my PC monitor , it looked rather good, especially compared to the streamed version on the website.

 

[zonekill]

GT HD Classic/Premium, what are the differences?

In a nutshell:

• 1 Disc
• 2 game-modes
• Classic = PS2 GT4 in HD with added content.
  

  + Gran Turismo HD: Classic is what adopts the GT:HD playable demo at E3 and meant to showcase the online aspect. A race is done with about 20 cars. Apparently this version starts with no cars or courses. You download a car for 50 - 100 yen (0.43 - 0.85$) and a course for 200 - 500 yen (1.71 - 4.26$). Over 750 cars and 50 tracks are available for purchase. Users can define race events freely and can hold online race events by themselves.

• Premium = a glimpse of GT5 using the PS3 power to boost better graphics etc.
  

  + Gran Turismo HD: Premium is essentially a GT5 prologue that uses the full graphics power of the PS3. (Pictures show a 3D spectator crowd, very detailed car models with interiors.) The weather changes while racing. It comes with 2 courses (both original and new, city and nature) and 30 cars including new ones. You can buy additional 30 cars and 2 courses (real circuits) later online. This version (or both GT HD, not sure) is a pure driving simulator and almost a tool. You don't get cars in in-game events, you just do whatever you want with games and courses or buy new ones via online.

For more details on yhe 2 modes look in first post and duh this thread

 

[Pebb]

I watched it in HD on my PC monitor , it looked rather good, especially compared to the streamed version on the website.

Was it a CRT Monitor or a 26inch or bigger LCD monitor?

Anyway GTHD will be the first game I be getting for my PS3.

 

[W00tn3ss]

Thanks for the info! 👍
Well, it looks I'm going to stick with GT2 another 2 years.

I think it's a great idea having downloadable tracks and courses too.

 

[Dave A]

It's a 21" LCD monitor.

 

[red7]

Earth: I say go for it, as for the end result let each post decide what it becomes.

 

[Polyphony001]

Looks good on my monitor, which is what I'll be playing GTHD on!

 

[RacingFreak2k3]

Something tells me you missed my point, because thus far, Gran Turismo 4 does look better than GT5. It isn't higher-resolution, it doesn't have better textures, and it doesn't have the same draw distance or number of polygons, but it looks more complete, and it has better lighting/special effects.

Again, from what we've seen so far.


The lighting and reflection effects need to be improved. Also, the Ferrari in that video seemed to be almost completely devoid of any suspension, not only in terms of road bumps but more importantly, in terms of cornering. This is one of the larger issues I had with GT4 (unrealistic, "artificial-looking" suspension movement animations) and I hope they'll fix it for the actual release of the game. Oh, and the textures of the tracks don't match the detail of the cars. At least not yet.



That's pretty much what I've been thinking.

On top of that, GT4 is obviously a complete game......PD would be stupid to release a GT5 with no shadows....and all of us GT nuts are demanding info and screens, so they sent what they got right now ....but either way, I have faith in PD because as soon as all the reflections and and shadows are added, it's gonna be BE-A-U-TI-Ful.

 

[harrytuttle]

GTHD seems to be suffering from same the problem that I've noticed in pretty much all of the latest, high-tech games...sure, they're high-resolution and crisp and shiny and smooth and whatnot, but the end-result is something that looks like it came from a cheap knock-off of a Pixar movie, and not what I'd call "photo-realistic." There are Gamecube games that, visually, have impressed me more than some of the 360's offerings thus far, and even these early shots of GTHD. Not because of technical prowess, but because of how the graphics designers were able to cover all of their bases when it comes to detail, producing an image that is stunning, not for its resolution, but for its completeness.

There's another item that I think some people are forgetting: the color space in HD is much larger than in SD. This changes how things end up looking after rendering. If your lighting engine assumes certain limitations of NTSC, then you can get away with not having the correct color between pixels because the display won't show that detail anyway. But with HD, using fewer color differences results in that plastic look XBOX (original) games were notorious for. The reason GT4 looked better is because things just sort of...smoothed out in the display itself. Rendering in the HD color space means you have to be far more accurate during the lighting process, not just creating higher-resolution models.

Microsoft has been working on this for some time now, and it shows:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/howto/articles/UnderstandingHDFormats.aspx
^now broken? http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach...ndingHDFormats.aspx+&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3
(January, 2004)

Sony/Polyphony has some work ahead of them, and they don't have much time. Unless these shots & videos were from 6 months ago, it's going to take some serious reworking of the lighting engine to fix this. Of course, the distinct lack of shadows may imply that they are indeed working on something better....

 

[Tenacious D]

No game has its graphics looking finished at this point in their development, which both GTHD and Forza 2 are around 75-80%. Actually both look very good, although Forza 2 looks much more plastic than GT does, probably due to with the PGR cross pollenation. PGR3 looked very plastic, thanks to missing car detail. For that matter, no game since the PS2 and GeForce 2 card based pc games have had their graphics polished up till the very end, when gameplay and graphics are given final approval.

So picking on GTHD graphics at this point is kind of like saying your two-thirds built home doesn't look very liveable. Why, it doesn't even have a roof!

 

[red7]

Where I would like to see improvement is in track side detail, like more brush and more and better looking trees for example. Larger crowds having people doing different and random things would also be cool. The cars are gonna be fine..

 

[Wolfe]

GTHD's graphics may be incomplete, but that doesn't change the fact that it will be very difficult for PD to make them as impressive as, say, GT3 was when it first came out (due to the vast amount of effort that is needed to eliminate crucial imperfections that the PS3's high-definition resolution will very easily reveal, and to "fill" the screen with enough detail to fool the eye and give it a "realistic" look), nor does it change the fact that, in its current, unfinished state, some of us are unimpressed by certain integral aspects of GTHD's graphics engine, including most notably (in my opinion) the reflections and lighting.

 

[SimRaceDriver]

I wanted to add this little tid-bit regarding the insertion of Ferrari into GTHD:


PD: Please try as hard as humanly possible to get the 'sounds' of a Ferrari right! To many cars within GT4 sound like a hair dryer running while standing in a bathroom!

 

[Solid Lifters]

Has anyone watched the HD version of the trailer through an HDTV yet, but it is a shame us UK people will have to wait till March 06 for GT HD.

I did yesterday and it looks fantastic. No problems on my end. I'm using a Sony Bravia KDL-46XBR2 LCD HDTV set as a computer monitor.

 

[SimRaceDriver]

That sharp LCD TV is majorly awesome, but it has a mere 2,073,600 pixels. My monitor has 2,340,000 LOL. 24" is plenty big enough for someone who sits right in front of the screen.
Don't forget to check the resolution of large TVs. Most HDTVs are still 1366x768, especially big ones.

In regards to this post, what is the minimun a Flat Panel HDTV would need to have in order to properly play GTHD at the optimun specs, as my current FP TV (Panasonic TC-32LX60) only displays at 1366x768?

Am I right to assume that a proper HDTV would need to display at 1920 x 1080 by chance? If so, man, I better start saving for a new TV real soon! LOL!

Thanks....

PS: If 1920 x 1080 is required, how bad would you think GTHD would look at 1366X768 using HDMI?

 

[Tenacious D]

Wolfe, you won't listen to anything anyone says. All you do is argue when the subject is Playstation or Gran Turismo.

Have a nice life.

 

[the Interceptor]

(...) in its current, unfinished state, some of us are unimpressed by certain integral aspects of GTHD's graphics engine, including most notably (in my opinion) the reflections and lighting.

Agreed, but isn't it kind of normal for a game to look unfinished when it is unfinished? I do get your point, and I see the problem to fill HDTV content with details that fool the eye into realism. However, PD has done a very good job regarding that so far, and I am pretty sure they will with GT5.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[Wolfe]

Wolfe, you won't listen to anything anyone says. All you do is argue when the subject is Playstation or Gran Turismo.

Have a nice life.

I have been, and will continue to do so.

If you're so convinced that every single word that I type is a lie, I don't know why you haven't simply blocked me yet.

Honestly, I didn't know that preferring Enthusia, Live for Speed, and Gran Turismo 3 over Gran Turismo 4...jokingly hoping that the PS3 would flop...buying only the Wii out of the next-gen consoles...watching four PS2s wither and die before my own eyes and thus deciding to not spend $600 on a Sony product with never-before-seen technology...agreeing with over 75% of the board in saying that GTHD's microtransactions system looks like a load of bullocks so far...and observing that GTHD's graphics -- albeit in an unfinished state -- indicate that GTHD may be just another example of the many modern games that fall short of delivering stunning visuals due to the work load necessary to accomplish such a thing these days, were crimes.

Hell, I didn't know that disagreeing with you was a crime. For that, I apologize, especially since I did it just to make you mad and not because I actually have opinions of my own that may differ from yours.

Sarcasm aside, you have two options. You can either PM me (or even a moderator) if you take offense to the way I go about things around here, or you can put me on your ignore list and forget about me.

Frankly, I don't see why you see the need to conclude for everyone else's "benefit" that I "never listen to anything anyone says," and I'm getting tired of your temper-tantrums that inevitably pop up whenever I try to intelligently discuss anything with you, particularly because they "conveniently" allow you to escape without giving an answer. Whether or not that is intentional is beyond me.

I will not stop posting my opinion on any subject just to make you happy, and I will not allow my views to be censored by someone who isn't a GTP staff member. So what if I don't like GT4, won't be buying a PS3 until it's old and cheap, and think GTHD might end up ripping off GT fans who fall for it? Does that make me a lesser GTP member?

I'm posting this here because I'd rather have people read this than allow you to say whatever you want about me. Is that immature? Yes, somewhat, but it takes two children to get into a childish dispute like this, and an adult to end it, and I want to end it here and now. This isn't the first time that you've "given up" on me, only to throw another tantrum down the road, so saying "have a nice life" and backing out isn't going to cut it this time.

So, what'll it be?

Agreed, but isn't it kind of normal for a game to look unfinished when it is unfinished? I do get your point, and I see the problem to fill HDTV content with details that fool the eye into realism. However, PD has done a very good job regarding that so far, and I am pretty sure they will with GT5.

Regards
the Interceptor

True, but I would assume that something important and universal, like reflections/lighting, would be finished or almost finished this late in the production cycle. That's a graphics engine thing, not a graphics content thing.

I don't blame PD for some of the poor textures we've been seeing, nor do I even blame them for the shadow-less Ferrari in that video (because I know they know better than to release a GT without shadows ). I do question those reflections, though, and the overall lighting on the cars in the screenshots I've been seeing.

Also, to me, this isn't a matter of whether or not GTHD looks "good." I'm merely surprised that the next entry in the Gran Turismo series, which has historically been among the very best in the industry when it comes to graphics, isn't really impressing me so far, and I fear what that means for other games in the next-generation.

 

[Flerbizky]

In regards to this post, what is the minimun a Flat Panel HDTV would need to have in order to properly play GTHD at the optimun specs, as my current FP TV (Panasonic TC-32LX60) only displays at 1366x768?

Am I right to assume that a proper HDTV would need to display at 1920 x 1080 by chance? If so, man, I better start saving for a new TV real soon! LOL!

Thanks....

PS: If 1920 x 1080 is required, how bad would you think GTHD would look at 1366X768 using HDMI?

Unless Flats drop by at amazing rate overnight sometime soon, we will be getting a 1368x768 screen.. And I expect GT5 / GTHD / Whatever, to look absolutely amazing at that resolution as well !....

And I have no doubt it will....

[Edit:] But you're right - The ultimate resolution for this gen HDTV is 1920x1080... So far, I've only seen a few here in DK supporting that resolution.. And they come with a pricetag..... That, and because of the way or apartment is designed, we can't fit anything bigger than 40" (42" if it has really slim edges...) and I've not seen a true 1920x1080 under 50"....

 

[Wolfe]

Unless Flats drop by at amazing rate overnight sometime soon, we will be getting a 1368x768 screen.. And I expect GT5 / GTHD / Whatever, to look absolutely amazing at that resolution as well !....

And I have no doubt it will....

[Edit:] But you're right - The ultimate resolution for this gen HDTV is 1920x1080... So far, I've only seen a few here in DK supporting that resolution.. And they come with a pricetag..... That, and because of the way or apartment is designed, we can't fit anything bigger than 40" (42" if it has really slim edges...) and I've not seen a true 1920x1080 under 50"....

This may be a dumb question, but what is the PS3's upper limit for resolution, anyway? The PS3 article at Wikipedia didn't really help me.

 

[the Interceptor]

True, but I would assume that something important and universal, like reflections/lighting, would be finished or almost finished this late in the production cycle. That's a graphics engine thing, not a graphics content thing.

Well, the reflections are there, they just haven't been optimized. And that's something you do at the very end I guess.

I don't blame PD for some of the poor textures we've been seeing, nor do I even blame them for the shadow-less Ferrari in that video (because I know they know better than to release a GT without shadows ). I do question those reflections, though, and the overall lighting on the cars in the screenshots I've been seeing.

I am mixed about this. The first Premium screenshots were good, but not great. Especially the "indoor" ones of the cars with no background looked pretty odd in terms of light and reflections. The new ones with the 599 do look much better and pretty close to the real thing in my eyes. There still is room for improvement though.

Also, to me, this isn't a matter of whether or not GTHD looks "good." I'm merely surprised that the next entry in the Gran Turismo series, which has historically been among the very best in the industry when it comes to graphics, isn't really impressing me so far, and I fear what that means for other games in the next-generation.

Well, you will probably agree that all PS2 GTs did look very good compared to what the console can do, and taking the step from standard tv to hdtv is pretty hard to take regarding visual improvements. Still, I guess we should wait until we actually see it in HDTV action when it's released, cause only then, we can really judge if they did a good job or not.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[Flerbizky]

This may be a dumb question, but what is the PS3's upper limit for resolution, anyway? The PS3 article at Wikipedia didn't really help me.

It'll no doubt support full HD resolution @ 1920x1080...


My old 6800GT is like 2 generations behind and runs every game at 1280x1024 so I see no reason why the PS3 should do less than Full on HD...

 

[amar212]

This may be a dumb question, but what is the PS3's upper limit for resolution, anyway? The PS3 article at Wikipedia didn't really help me.

PS3 max-out res should be 1920x1080/1080p (A.K.A. True HD) on 60 fps, with being first ever consumer product to offer HDMI 1.3 output standard (look at www.hdmi.org for futher details about HDMI 1.3).

As for you concern about GTHD - I can only say that Gran Turismo is the only franchise ever in video-game industry that have never done anything below it's high standards. I highly doubt they will fail this time.

All of us are awaiting first official fact-sheet and details about GTHD game. Same goes for PS3 console. Untill that one is delivered, all here are just speculations on a very high level.

 

[Flerbizky]

PS3 max-out res should be 1920x1080/1080p (A.K.A. True HD) on 60 fps, with being first ever consumer product to offer HDMI 1.3 output standard (look at www.hdmi.org for futher details about HDMI 1.3).

As for you concern about GTHD - I can only say that Gran Turismo is the only franchise ever in video-game industry that have never done anything below it's high standards. I highly doubt they will fail this time.

All of us are awaiting first official fact-sheet and details about GTHD game. Same goes for PS3 console. Untill that one is delivered, all here are just speculations on a very high level.

I can't give you anymore rep points at the moment - You'll have to settle for this :

👍

 

[Wolfe]

Well, the reflections are there, they just haven't been optimized. And that's something you do at the very end I guess.

Perhaps. I'm not a programmer or videogame graphics designer, so I don't know for sure.

I am mixed about this. The first Premium screenshots were good, but not great. Especially the "indoor" ones of the cars with no background looked pretty odd in terms of light and reflections. The new ones with the 599 do look much better and pretty close to the real thing in my eyes. There still is room for improvement though.

That's what I noticed, too, and what I'm referring to. Those "indoor" shots are almost appalling.

Well, you will probably agree that all PS2 GTs did look very good compared to what the console can do, and taking the step from standard tv to hdtv is pretty hard to take regarding visual improvements. Still, I guess we should wait until we actually see it in HDTV action when it's released, cause only then, we can really judge if they did a good job or not.

Regards
the Interceptor

Of course. My best friend and I sometimes refer to GT4 as "the pretty game."

I would argue with the "until we actually see it in HDTV bit," if only because my current concerns are special-effect-related, not resolution-related. I have no doubt that GTHD, even as it is now, would be pretty spectacular on a top-of-the-line HDTV, but I still think there's plenty of room for improvement before the game is released.

It'll no doubt support full HD resolution @ 1920x1080...

PS3 max-out res should be 1920x1080/1080p (A.K.A. True HD) on 60 fps, with being first ever consumer product to offer HDMI 1.3 output standard (look at www.hdmi.org for futher details about HDMI 1.3).

Cool. Thanks.

All of us are awaiting first official fact-sheet and details about GTHD game. Same goes for PS3 console. Untill that one is delivered, all here are just speculations on a very high level.

Naturally.

 

[the Interceptor]

I would argue with the "until we actually see it in HDTV bit," if only because my current concerns are special-effect-related, not resolution-related.

That sentence was more meant like "until we actually see it in action", meaning that you always get another picture if you look at stills and videos on a computer.

Regards
the Interceptor