Gran Turismo Sophy: Sony AI x Polyphony Digital

[Magog]

Might just be me, but programming an A.I to beat humans doesn’t seem very advanced for me. You can always program an A.I to run a perfect lap and do it consistently. I’m surprised it took this long. We have automatic transmission that can outshift human manual nowadays, and we even have chess A.I in the 90s beating top world class players.

What would really impress me is if this A.I can beat top GTSport players on a one on one race physically, not a ghost race.

Prepare to be impressed because they did just that.

 

[ynot]

So it's going to go from ai I can walk past. To ai I can't get close to..

Muahaha. What a day

Lets just hope if I play on expert it will at least out up a fight. And not always be a chase the leader who started 1mile up the road etc.

First post is a negative one. Sad. Can we just wait to see what it is when it comes out?

 

[Famine]

The timeline is here for the project is on the website too: https://www.gran-turismo.com/us/gran-turismo-sophy/project/

"A researcher" Poor guy.

 

[ViciousPanda]

Proofs in the pudding, sounds great, but if it still feels "cheaty" in places and doesn't follow the same laws of physics as the rest of us humans when compared to wet weather, general cornering physics, speed power and momentum as well as tyre wear and self awareness it will all be for nought.

Yeah, that's my sentiment as well. I've watched these hour and half videos from June and October races against the AI and I come off thinking it still feels "cheaty", to me it looks the same as the old AI but just a lot freaking faster. The jerkiness, the weaving, the defensive driving, some punting here and there but the AI stays firm on the road never making a big mistake. I'm sure I would spin out in a lot of the instances where AI stayed planted to the road. I'm not entirely convinced yet.

 

[RACECAR]

Watched all the videos and pace wise, the AI is simply on another level (Beyond "Alien", which then begs the question of what do you call that?). However apart from at best three instances of clean passes, its not spectacular with race craft as alot of the action was excessively aggressive when it wasn't necessary (You know, the thing alot of us hate that our fellow Humans do on lap 1). While its something, its not exactly "ready" in my opinion with the kind of racecraft its shown and it still could use some refinement as some of the movements and lines still seem abit unnatural.

As for the typical "GT Hater" comments, just because not everyone is blindly optimistic (taking literally anything as gospel or confirmation) as you are means they hate GT. Just because I for instance am not necessarily of the belief that this is coming to GT7 real soon doesn't mean I hate GT, why at this point would I have ever bothered having every single numbered game (as well as several spinoffs) if I did? This a problem not just here in these forums but in society in general: This aggressive reaction to ANY and all criticism no matter how much proof or evidence is presented in the argument. Not everything that doesn't agree with your view is some attack against you or what you love so ironically, the complaining about the criticism as well as reffering to as "complaining" is if anything more negative in itself.

And the most important part of this: PD didn't develop the AI, Sony AI (a completely different company) did. PD provided the software to apply and test said AI, but didn't build it themselves. You can't allow blind excitement to cloud facts or judgement

So, as far as I understand, it’s fast but dumb. Nothing to be the least bit excited about in other words, as expected.

Kinda like some fast guys in the top splits of E-Sports leagues. Finally, Human drama has been achieved

Goddammit... they're French...

We ain't ever beating them if they're implemented 🤣🤣🤣

None of them are named Sebastian so we're safe...for now

The racing was seriously impressive but the AI's qualifying laps looked like they had the old Gran Turismo skid recovery force helping them out. Kinda defied belief.

It does appear like that, especially with how often they put both tires in the grass (a move that usually sends Human drivers for a loop).

 

[CarreraGT]

Question: why doesn't Sophy just apply to all AI cars?

 

[Yard_Sale]

Perhaps one of the most relevant question is wether or not a bone stock PS4 can run this?

If this is in fact going to be an update, the “when” of this update could clue us in on the future of PS4 and GT7

The more I watch these vids, the more impressed I am. Pretty cool stuff they’ve been up to 😎

 

[Atwork]

Wrong wrong wrong wrong, wrong wrong wrong, you're wrong.- Perry Cox- Scrubs.



GT 7 Is not x. Just stop, you keep looking bad. Will the new things that have been added or improved be all that poly says, perhaps not. The reflexive hate should just wait. I know some people can not help themselves, and if something slightly off or over looked they have to complain. See Star Wars guy/girl. Poly seems to be trying to check off the boxes. The company is not dumb. For the most part, if you have been paying attention, Kaz has addressed the issue or has given an answer why not. Who knows this game could miss the mark?

I do not get the hate, that festers in people who do not get the exact details they want in a game, movie, etc. Kaz has been hitting some of the series flaws. People should probably just should wait till everything is known. At the same time, what do I know? I will say time and time again, people have moaned about x, only too, well, in this case, look bad the next day.

Granted this game could be ****, who knows, we will see? I am excited for this game. My expectations are that of a gt game with some improvements, so I doubt I'll be disappointed.

Anyways, yet another box that looks to be checked off. What is the next gripe, no Apricot hill? Sounds like a good dlc track? Did we forget that gts had a decent post launch content push? While, I do not expect the same amount of content as gts, for obvious reasons, there should be enough to make me happy. I suppose we do not have long to wait.

 

[Famine]

Perhaps one of the most relevant question is wether or not a bone stock PS4 can run this?

The process to create the AI requires a lot of computing power. The result does not.

Yes, a bone stock PS4 will handle any GT7 implementation of the "Sophy" AI.

 

[regnar]

Watching the videos again, good to see the AI having to serve penalty's

 

[Silver Arrows]

Watched all the videos and pace wise, the AI is simply on another level (Beyond "Alien", which then begs the question of what do you call that?). However apart from at best three instances of clean passes, its not spectacular with race craft as alot of the action was excessively aggressive when it wasn't necessary (You know, the thing alot of use hate that our fellow Humans do on lap 1). While its something, its not exactly "ready" in my opinion with the kind of racecraft its shown and it still could use some refinement as some of the movements and lines still seem abit unnatural.

Yep. Lets be honest, if this didn't have the label of 'machine learning AI' and was simply presented as is, I think most people would consider it a bad thing, especially the over-aggressiveness. I know if I saw these sorts of moves being done online, I'd probably be pissed off even with the immense pace they had. But even within the framework of what has been shown...it's an experiment. Whether it gets actually implemented in the near future, it still doesn't take away from the fact that the AI still is not very good from what has been shown now. And even if it does get eventually implemented in GT7, there still is a whole boatload of questions and potential problems that come from it, and would need to be iterated on or answered.

but Poly seems to be trying to check off the boxes.

The issue is that this is a long term solution for a short term problem that needed to be fixed yesterday. And even with that in mind, this feels like overkill when the problem of 'bad AI' (and really, terrible implementation of events more then anything else) could easily be fixed by humans now, and probably in a more consistent way then letting machine learning do the task. As have other developers with infinitely less resources then Polyphony have with Sophy.

 

[Yard_Sale]

@Tidgney said in his ACC stream the other day, that the developers of Gran Turismo do in fact play other titles, PC and console. Not earth shaking news by any means being that they would be stupid not to. But it was interesting nonetheless that he confirmed it, and later commented that it’s their goal is to take the best from all titles and platforms, and Granturismo-fy it

 

[br1x]

I will have the chance to speak with Kazunori Yamauchi and the Sony AI team about Gran Turismo Sophy in the coming days — let me know if you guys have any specific questions about Sophy that you'd like answered. 👍

-Potential timeframe?
-Things to improve in terms of race craft/awareness of other cars?
-Possibility to scale to fit the player skill?
-WHERE IS TOYOTA GT-ONE?
-Possiblity to have different Sophies that have different strengths and weaknesses and are more/less aggressive?
-Tied to that: possiblities for B-Spec or similiar mode?

 

[matherto]

I'm assuming this has absolutely naff all to do with the AI of computer opponents in game.

Doubly so considering what we've seen so far has been the same old AI behaviour.

 

[samuelesm]

If anyone is familiar with ML or is curious, I do have access to the full paper on Nature so I can provide some excerpt

If anyone is familiar with ML or is curious, I do have access to the full paper on Nature so I can provide some excerpts.

Oooh, yes please!!!

 

[solidboss07]

"I'm sorry Kaz. I'm afraid I can't do that."

 

[Famine]

I'm assuming this has absolutely naff all to do with the AI of computer opponents in game.

Doubly so considering what we've seen so far has been the same old AI behaviour.

 

[ShiftingGears]

That's an unexpected and promising outcome if its implemented.

Critically it needs to be scalable however because I suggest there is a sweet spot somewhere between anyone being able to beat the AI by 30 seconds in 5 laps, and no GT player on earth being able to beat the AI at all.

My first thought is that it's trained with specific car and track combinations so it will be a challenge event with those cars and tracks only. We will see.

I will have the chance to speak with Kazunori Yamauchi and the Sony AI team about Gran Turismo Sophy in the coming days — let me know if you guys have any specific questions about Sophy that you'd like answered. 👍

@Jordan My questions would be - given that this AI convincingly beats GT World Tour winners - is this AI difficulty going to be adjustable by the players so that GT7 players with various different abilities who can easily beat the current AI can race competitively against it?

Secondly - is this going to be available on all events, or selected events only?

 

[05XR8]

Thats why i feel it should gauge the player's time trial or a set qualifying time.

same way Gt6 started with the lap around Brands hatch in the clio. The game would gauge where the player fits(Amatuer through professional). Adjusting or selecting AI bas3ed on the player's performance each day, week, month.

 

[Pete_J_C]

Watching the videos again, good to see the AI having to serve penalty's

it was funny when some of the AI were given warnings. naughty AI overlords, be nice!

 

[regnar]

Maybe a new AI difficulty is added in addition, to beginner, intermediate & professional, maybe it replaces professional or becomes something new Sophy AI

 

[Toysuprahot]

I would love to play them in the career mode, even if that meant I wouldn't win races on first try (which shouldn't happen anyway) or 10th try. I like challenges, so it will become something like "GT Dark Souls edition" for me. If that's the train, I'm in.

 

[Yard_Sale]

What I want to know is if she'll ever drive a Slophy.

From the looks of it, this scenario is the only chance GT world tour drivers would have at beating her 😂

 

[evldave333]

I would love to play them in the career mode, even if that meant I wouldn't win races on first try (which shouldn't happen anyway) or 10th try. I like challenges, so it will become something like "GT Dark Souls edition" for me. If that's the train, I'm in.

The AI could give a theoretical fastest lap for each car set up / track / time of day / weather, it would be nice to have these as something to aim at... for some Hamilton style challenge leader boards? possibly with some track data breakdown afterwards to learn from?

 

[SomeGamer2021]

Sounds like GT7 will have some decent A.I.! I hope they won't be nightmare difficulty, though!!

 

[Toysuprahot]

The AI could give a theoretical fastest lap for each car set up / track / time of day / weather, it would be nice to have these as something to aim at... for some Hamilton style challenge leader boards? possibly with some track data breakdown afterwards to learn from?

Uhm yeah I don't like hotlapping. I've had my fair share of trying to hotlap against alien ghosts, I'd prefer racing against an alien AI offline however, just is more chill and entertaining (if these AI really pissed me off because of their pace for example, I always could send some to the other realm if I wanted to, not possible online).

 

[Yard_Sale]

Wouldn’t that be funny if her name “sophy” was derived from us nicknaming the Megane Trophy “Slophy”

It’d PD’s way of saying “Slophy eh?….here, hold my beer”

 

[deviln3]

The AI could give a theoretical fastest lap for each car set up / track / time of day / weather, it would be nice to have these as something to aim at... for some Hamilton style challenge leader boards? possibly with some track data breakdown afterwards to learn from?

They hinted doing something like that to figure out Performance Points for each car after upgrades are done. I'm hoping this makes racing more fair when using multiple manufacturers to even out performance.

 

[O604]

View attachment 1112860

That's not how Venn diagrams work!! Took me a second to think of something to be mad at.

Very cool. Not all PS5 players. Not all PS+ subscribers. Not a future DLC. But all players.

 

[gthelmi2398]

I really enjoy watching how the AI was driving and braking on these lines, half in the grass.

Can't wait to see the AI in a some weaker deiving style helping me to get faster.