Gran Turismo Sophy: Sony AI x Polyphony Digital

[GTalaune]

Regardless if it will be included in game, it is really interesting.

Also in this video at 2:05 :

You can see that the distribution of lap times is not so far of being normal, not exactly but still. And you see that the AI is waaaaaayyyy behind the median, just by eyeballing, 80% of players seem to be faster than the GT AI (not sure it was set at the maximum difficulty) ! This is just not acceptable

 

[zzz_pt]

Fair to say as a phrase is the same as saying that it can be logically inferred to be the most likely reason. They wouldn't just show them to just show them. This is the collaboration of multi-million dollar divisions within one of the largest companies on earth. It's not some youtuber trying to hype a pile of nothing.

Like Sony did with this?



There’s plenty of examples like this. It’s marketing. That’s why it’s always better to judge something after it’s available to the public.

I’m sure Sony and PD are working on something that has the potential to be good and improve AI in GT games, but I doubt GT7 will impress us with seriously competitive AI. I hope I’m 100% wrong though as GT is the game/franchise I’ve played the most all my life and spent the most money on (consoles, wheels, tvs, etc).

 

[Famine]

This is the discussion thread for an article on GTPlanet:

Polyphony Digital and Sony AI Announce “Breakthrough” Project Collaboration​

An intriguing message has landed on social media from the official Gran Turismo account and the account of Sony AI teasing what’s referred to as a “Gaming Flagship” and “breakthrough project” in AI. The companies, both subsidiary arms of the wider Sony brand, jointly revealed that they’re set to announce the project at 1600 UTC on Wednesday February 9...

 

[Tornado]

Talk about being a cynic. This is clearly a long term collaboration which will pay huge dividends for GT and AI in general.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

This level of corporate synergy just isn't as impressive if we had to sacrifice Spiderman showing up in Gran Turismo to get it.

 

[kjeldsen]

Like Sony did with this?



There’s plenty of examples like this. It’s marketing. That’s why it’s always better to judge something after it’s available to the public.

I’m sure Sony and PD are working on something that has the potential to be good and improve AI in GT games, but I doubt GT7 will impress us with seriously competitive AI. I hope I’m 100% wrong though as GT is the game/franchise I’ve played the most all my life and spent the most money on (consoles, wheels, tvs, etc).

Something is going on, when sony.ai have released 3 papers on AI in GT games something is obviously going on that is bigger than those 3 papers.

 

[Samus]

Something is going on, when sony.ai have released 3 papers on AI in GT games something is obviously going on that is bigger than those 3 papers.

Yes, but Sony AI are not trying to improve Gran Turismo. They're just using the game as a visual output to show off their work. The work which is about programming a real world AI that can help autonomous cars, in regular driver and autonomous racing.


They say that trailer is a "sneak peak" of the project yet the trailer contains no gameplay. It shows real world environments and real people. Clearly it is not a about the AI cars in GT.

 

[Purple101]

Guys guys. Calm down.

It's a new 'Aibo' dog.

Obv's.

 

[kjeldsen]

Yes, but Sony AI are not trying to improve Gran Turismo. They're just using the game as a visual output to show off their work. The work which is about programming a real world AI that can help autonomous cars, in regular driver and autonomous racing.


They say that trailer is a preview of the project yet the trailer contains no gameplay. It shows real world environments and real people. Clearly it is not a about the AI cars in GT.

I think there is more to it, it will be something like using 100 of thousands of players and races to build the next AI with SONY.AI helping.

 

[evldave333]

After meating out millions of penalties the AI struck back, they called it judgement day...

 

[Samus]

I think there is more to it, it will be something like using 100 of thousands of players and races to build the next AI with SONY.AI helping.

How have you got that from the preview video? What would Tom the world tour commentator have to do with something like that?


Edit: if you're talking about the papers, show me anything in any of them which talk about improving GT AI.

 

[kjeldsen]

How have you got that from the preview video?

3 papers that have been released in 2021 uses GT-Sport to build AI from "real races"

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2111.06449.pdf

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2103.14666.pdf

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2008.07971.pdf

It seems like a natural step to take this research into GT7

 

[Samus]

3 papers that have been released in 2021 uses GT-Sport to build AI from "real races"

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2111.06449.pdf

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2103.14666.pdf

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2008.07971.pdf

It seems like a natural step to take this research into GT7

Yes, it USES GT because it's the flagship Sony driving product and offers them everything they need. If this wasn't Sony AI they might have chosen to use another game to demonstrate.

Quote me any part of those papers which talks directly about attempts to improve the game rather than just using it as a platform. I only skimmed them but didn't see anything, just talking about real world applications for their findings.

 

[Toysuprahot]

Yes, but Sony AI are not trying to improve Gran Turismo. They're just using the game as a visual output to show off their work. The work which is about programming a real world AI that can help autonomous cars, in regular driver and autonomous racing.


They say that trailer is a "sneak peak" of the project yet the trailer contains no gameplay. It shows real world environments and real people. Clearly it is not a about the AI cars in GT.

This is the logical conclusion. If it were about Gran Turismo then the announcement would feature the game title and not be phrased as "Sony and Polyphony AI" thing, which otherwise would be an extreme marketing failure for the game. There is a huge difference between building a good racing AI and an autonomous AI for real cars.

3 papers that have been released in 2021 uses GT-Sport to build AI from "real races"

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2111.06449.pdf

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2103.14666.pdf

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2008.07971.pdf

It seems like a natural step to take this research into GT7

It's very likely they will showcase their autonomous AI virtually with the Gran Turismo engine and that's it.

 

[evldave333]

I love the something to work on infinitely quote... Kaz is special.

 

[SomeGamer2021]

As long as it's not like Forza's drivatar system...

 

[kjeldsen]

Yes, it USES GT7 because it's the flagship Sony driving product and offers them everything they need. If this wasn't Sony AI they might have chosen to use another game to demonstrate.

Quote me any part of those papers which talks directly about attempts to improve the game rather than just using it as a platform. I only skimmed them but didn't see anything, just talking about real world applications for their findings.

The "papers" use GT-Sport to learn an AI how to drive race, there is nothing to quote about GT7 from that but it's valid to think that they will be using that research plus all the other stuff that was never published.

 

[Samus]

The "papers" use GT-Sport to learn an AI how to drive race, there is nothing to quote about GT7 from that but it's valid to think that they will be using that research plus all the other stuff that was never published.

It's no more valid than thinking they won't. There is literally zero evidence to suggest they will.

Try not to conflate what you want to be true and what is actually realistic. Look at my recent post history, there is nothing I want more than for GT to have an overhaul in AI, but there is really nothing to suggest that is going to come via any partnership with Sony AI. It's just wishful thinking.

 

[Scaff]

I think there is more to it, it will be something like using 100 of thousands of players and races to build the next AI with SONY.AI helping.

If that's the case, then they are late to the party.

War Stories: How Forza learned to love neural nets to train AI drivers

Catching up with Forza’s Dan Greenawalt to meet the ghosts in the machine.

arstechnica.com

 

[kjeldsen]

It's no more valid than thinking they won't. There is literally zero evidence to suggest they will.

Try not to conflate what you want to be true and what is actually realistic. Look at my recent post history, there is nothing I want more than for GT to have an overhaul in AI, but there is really nothing to suggest that is going to come via any partnership with Sony AI. It's just wishful thinking.

haha wishful thinking, not really, the AI would have to be very special if i were to waste time racing the AI when i can play the real thing. It might even be annoying if i had to spend too much time earning money against a clever AI that actually put up a fight and doesn't have a easy to use solution posted on gtplanet

No, i just think that the tagline "change the game" and the timing plays into something GT7 related, and afaik we weren't told anything about AI improvements in GT7 so now would be a perfect time to keep the hype up. And if it was related to the Vision-S car the timing really sucks.


I better stop discussing this and just wait and see what is going

 

[evldave333]

Try not to conflate what you want to be true and what is actually realistic. Look at my recent post history, there is nothing I want more than for GT to have an overhaul in AI, but there is really nothing to suggest that is going to come via any partnership with Sony AI. It's just wishful thinking.

with Kazunori Yamauchi stating that PD had “really worked on getting the AI to really be able to drive aggressively enough so that it comes to close to human lap times, and also to be able to handle more complex situations, and take accurate and appropriate actions” — while adding that it’s something that could be worked on infinitely.

I know nothing of programming, but that looks like an AI algorithm situation to me. I should imagine this partnership will be necessary to bring the (wish/whinge) lists of the community into the game via complex algorithms, over its full life cycle. Think of the possibilities as well as driver AI how about we have... a race director Michael Masi program to make all those penalty decisions for you... "this is racing Toto" muhahaha

 

[GTalaune]

with Kazunori Yamauchi stating that PD had “really worked on getting the AI to really be able to drive aggressively enough so that it comes to close to human lap times, and also to be able to handle more complex situations, and take accurate and appropriate actions” — while adding that it’s something that could be worked on infinitely.

I know nothing of programming, but that looks like an AI algorithm situation to me. I should imagine this partnership will be necessary to bring the (wish/whinge) lists of the community into the game via complex algorithms, over its full life cycle. Think of the possibilities as well as driver AI how about we have... a race director Michael Masi program to make all those penalty decisions for you... "this is racing Toto" muhahaha

"Kaz this isn't right"

 

[kjeldsen]

with Kazunori Yamauchi stating that PD had “really worked on getting the AI to really be able to drive aggressively enough so that it comes to close to human lap times, and also to be able to handle more complex situations, and take accurate and appropriate actions” — while adding that it’s something that could be worked on infinitely.

I know nothing of programming, but that looks like an AI algorithm situation to me. I should imagine this partnership will be necessary to bring the (wish/whinge) lists of the community into the game via complex algorithms, over its full life cycle. Think of the possibilities as well as driver AI how about we have... a race director Michael Masi program to make all those penalty decisions for you... "this is racing Toto" muhahaha

The people sharing and commenting around the web also indicates something related to GT7.

 

[GTalaune]

The people sharing and commenting around the web also indicates something related to GT7.

I am usually critical, but I am curious about this one, most people talk about GT7, doesn't guarantee a better AI, maybe a separate game mode or something ? That would still be better than nothing

 

[ImaRobot]

No, i just think that the tagline "change the game" and the timing plays into something GT7 related, and afaik we weren't told anything about AI improvements in GT7 so now would be a perfect time to keep the hype up. And if it was related to the Vision-S car the timing really sucks.

At the very least, it could be something GT related, though I doubt it's going to be for this game coming out in a few weeks. This is a major thing to omit from their conference they literally just had that broke down the game.

The people sharing and commenting around the web also indicates something related to GT7.

Yes, people all over the web are just guessing much like us.

 

[Samus]

The people sharing and commenting around the web also indicates something related to GT7.

What people?

 

[happycorey]

The people sharing and commenting around the web also indicates something related to GT7.

I have seen employees of PD reposting the content, but I do not think it's GT related at this point. Just a product of PDs legwork.

 

[BigSarj]

I'm unable to watch the video quite yet but I can say that it is in Sony's interest, in the realm of gaming, to research AI. They have up to ten live service games releasing by 2026 and it would really benefit them all. So we know they're investing a ton into multiplayer, anyway.

But you guys make it sound like a big nothing in this video so maybe that's what it is.

 

[JD_18]

At the very least, it could be something GT related, though I doubt it's going to be for this game coming out in a few weeks. This is a major thing to omit from their conference they literally just had that broke down the game.


Yes, people all over the web are just guessing much like us.

Not necesary, if this is special thing, you want that get all the atention.
If you see the news, this was cover like the SOP of GT7 and not about Testarrosa being a new car for the saga for exemple.

Also, you want more focus in your game, yo need to divide the information so the people can talk more about it trught the days.

 

[sirjim73]

As long as it's not like Forza's drivatar system...

Maybe they've multiplied B Spec Bob by the power of 9 and are about to announce...

Bobatars...

Or maybe not...

 

[Samus]

haha wishful thinking, not really, the AI would have to be very special if i were to waste time racing the AI when i can play the real thing. It might even be annoying if i had to spend too much time earning money against a clever AI that actually put up a fight and doesn't have a easy to use solution posted on gtplanet

No, i just think that the tagline "change the game" and the timing plays into something GT7 related, and afaik we weren't told anything about AI improvements in GT7 so now would be a perfect time to keep the hype up. And if it was related to the Vision-S car the timing really sucks.


I better stop discussing this and just wait and see what is going

It's been described as a "project" that commentator Tom has been involved with, and he says he can't wait for us to watch it. Not play it.

The video features GT tour players and real world footage, no game footage.

Put it all together and I don't see how you can come up with "it's an announcement about AI improvement in GT7".

It screams promo video featuring world tour players racing against some AI generated in the GT7 engine to indirectly promote it.