Gran Turismo Sophy: Sony AI x Polyphony Digital

[Freeman_Cruz]

It's this week's cover of Nature the world's leading multidisciplinary science journal

Volume 602 Issue 7896, 10 February 2022

Volume 602 Issue 7896, 10 February 2022

www.nature.com

 

[Scaff]

As expected it's an AI that's learned pace, which we knew it could do from the last article on the subject published here, what it doesn't look at in any way is racecraft.

 

[Samus]

It's obviously very impressive but I see no indication how they plan to turn this into an actual in-game AI or if it will even be possible. They're just going to "explore" how they can do it, and it may appear in future releases of the series. Seems pretty vague, and probably one of those things you will never hear about again, as much as I hope it isn't the case.

 

[Magog]

It wasn't just time trials it was head to head racing.

Sony and Gran Turismo developer Polyphony Digital also held head-to-head races between four instances of GT Sophy and four top-level Japanese GT: Sport racers (Takuma Miyazono, Tomoaki Yamanaka, Ryota Kokubun, and Shotaro Ryu) at the developer's HQ in Tokyo on the same day in July last year. Races were held on each of the three tracks, and points were awarded for finishing positions (10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, and 1, from first to last). On this occasion, the humans won 86 to 70.

But following some modifications to the training regime, a rematch held in October 2021 reversed the situation. GT Sophy was victorious, easily beating the human team 104 to 52.

It was able to pass and protect its lines against the best players in Japan and beat them soundly in a head to head race. This is what we all want.

 

[Scaff]

It's this month's cover of Nature the world's leading multidisciplinary science journal

Volume 602 Issue 7896, 10 February 2022

Volume 602 Issue 7896, 10 February 2022

www.nature.com

View attachment 1112790

That covers going to upset a few, don't Sony and PD's press teams know that Gran Turismo isn't a racing game anymore!

 

[GTalaune]

I really don't see how this could not be implemented in GT7. It looks like it's not limited to one car or one track, they train the AI offline so it's not a ressource hog either. Really wish this AI would replace what we have and we simply have a slider from 1 to 10 or something.

Edit : They know how to make a fast AI, but I guess some work is needed to make it less fast but still "real" for us plebs, I have only wacthed the hotlaps and the AI doesn't seem super-human. Gallo stuck pretty close on his lap.
I would be curious about the inputs of the ghost, does it "cheat" in some way ?

 

[Magog]

As expected it's an AI that's learned pace, which we knew it could do from the last article on the subject published here, what it doesn't look at in any way is racecraft.

That isn't correct. It raced head to head and won. Read the Arstechnica article I posted

 

[Brend]

A cool project that probably won't impact the game directly any time soon - but it helps reinforce how huge Gran Turismo is culturally and is an indication of how platforms like this will one day bring us to a scenario when robots take over. 💀😂

 

[unit-one]

That isn't correct. It raced head to head and won. Read the Arstechnica article I posted

 

[Vspectra]

It's obviously very impressive but I see no indication how they plan to turn this into an actual in-game AI or if it will even be possible. They're just going to "explore" how they can do it, and it may appear in future releases of the series. Seems pretty vague, and probably one of those things you will never hear about again, as much as I hope it isn't the case.

kaz talked about updating the gt7 AI in one of the recent interviews. he also mentioned this in the new videos

 

[Silver Arrows]

kaz talked about updating the gt7 AI in one of the recent interviews. he also mentioned this in the new videos

I'd treat a potential Sophy update the same way I treat Track Creator. With a mountain of salt and skepticism.

 

[GTalaune]

It's this week's cover of Nature the world's leading multidisciplinary science journal

Volume 602 Issue 7896, 10 February 2022

Volume 602 Issue 7896, 10 February 2022

www.nature.com

View attachment 1112790

This is pretty big, Nature is some serious stuff.

 

[Scaff]

That isn't correct. It raced head to head and won. Read the Arstechnica article I posted

I've gone better and watched the footage



It's better than I had expected, but it does seem to be quite reliant on brute force and pace.

It's a great development, but still has a way to go.

 

[GTalaune]

I'd treat a potential Sophy update the same way I treat Track Creator. With a mountain of salt and skepticism.

Yes, might be a separate game mode, still better than nothing

 

[Vspectra]

I'd treat a potential Sophy update the same way I treat Track Creator. With a mountain of salt and skepticism.

Well, we already see it working and implemented into GTSport here unlike the GT6 track creator when GT6 was released.

 

[Magog]

kaz talked about updating the gt7 AI in one of the recent interviews. he also mentioned this in the new videos

Damn. That would be epic. I look forward to it.

 

[eran0004]

I guarantee that if this is ever actually implemented, that it basically leads to the same events that we have now, except the rabbits now are cheetahs.

How much money was dumped into this where hiring a few programmers with experience in racing game AI could have sufficed? It seems like such a roundabout way to potentially fix a problem.

It’s not the same kind of AI. In a racing game context you create AI that are fun to race against. In this context they created machine learning AI that is teaching itself how to race. The purpose here is not to create a fun AI that PD can put in the game, but to explore machine learning for Sony. The hope that this AI (or rather the stuff it has learned) some day could be integrated into the game is just a byproduct of the project.

 

[kjeldsen]

I guarantee that if this is ever actually implemented, that it basically leads to the same events that we have now, except the rabbits now are cheetahs.

How much money was dumped into this where hiring a few programmers with experience in racing game AI could have sufficed? It seems like such a roundabout way to potentially fix a problem.

I think this particular model needs more power than the PS4 can deliver, but a GT7+ patch is possible and would be awesome. The main difference compared to the old "ai" is that with an AI like this you can much much easier adapt it to the the difficulty to fit the challenge you want to give to the player and it doesn't feel... artificial!

 

[GTalaune]

Anyway, if done right, we might have a really good AI ! I hope that it will be available to the PS4 players, KAZ don't BS us again please.

 

[Scaff]

Odd glitch on one of the cars on the grid here

 

[Toysuprahot]

So a promo for a very important feature but which won't be coming for the next GT game not even released? Would have been better for them to not even mention it, but PD couldn't resist promoting another "SOON" feature as usual.

 

[Vspectra]

 

[Yard_Sale]

Watched the vids. Pretty impressive stuff

Even though Sony probably funded the project, there’s no way PD would let this project soak up precious resources for it not to be in GT7.

This new AI system will be implemented in GT7 at launch.

Stamp it

 

[GTalaune]

A friend that basically tells you "l2p noob" ?

 

[ArR29]

This could be perfect for B Spec racing if they develop the A.I further.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Sounds like B-Spec Bob is now B-Spec Sophy.

Perhaps they can't run the AI on 20 cars, but they can run it on yours, for B-Spec.

 

[Samus]

The sheer pace is clearly very good but the racecraft needs a lot of work still. They're not really reacting to the other cars in an intelligent way, they're rather just trying to get to the line and form that they've learned to be the fastest, so lots of sudden jerky movements. Some were straight up dirty, like the one that reacted too late to a move up the inside at Maggiore chicane and just started ramming into the real player.

Also since there is obviously ultimately only one AI algorithm that has trained they're all behaving the same. Like in that Dragon Trail video you can see them all making the same weird movement into the downhill right hander before the chicane of death.

It shows promise for sure, and It's certainly great to finally see some good AI in a GT game but this as something you can race against in a game seems like a long way off still.

This new AI system will be implemented in GT7 at launch.

No, it won't.

 

[Magog]

So a promo for a very important feature but which won't be coming for the next GT game not even released? Would have been better for them to not even mention it, but PD couldn't resist promoting another "SOON" feature as usual.

Conquoring and creating impressive AI is one of the absolute forefronts of research in the world right now. It takes a lot of time and resources. That they have done this well and have plans to integrate it at all is impressive.

 

[Canucks_9419]

So a promo for a very important feature but which won't be coming for the next GT game not even released? Would have been better for them to not even mention it, but PD couldn't resist promoting another "SOON" feature as usual.

You should try looking the the posts above yours next time, there's a few that say it will come to 7

 

[Scaff]

Conquoring and creating impressive AI is one of the absolute forefronts of research in the world right now. It takes a lot of time and resources. That they have done this well and have plans to integrate it at all is impressive.

I take it you are equally full of praise for the other developers and teams that have already done so?

I'm much more guarded, as applying machine learning of this type to a commercial product has had mixed results and that from companies that have either been doing it longer or with a bigger budget.


Edit to add. Found it, one of the questions MS asked years ago (original FM years ago) about developing AI for games is what is the actual end goal

One that always takes optimal actions

or

One that delivers best entertainment value

It's still a valid question and GT Sophy, right now, seems to be in the first camp.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/jqcandela2011.pdf