Gran Turismo Sport Cross Over To A Real Simulator To Satisfy The Wheel Market

[HaydenFan69]

All you should be worried about is pressing the throttle and turning the wheel. The basics of driving an automobile. What you use to control said automobile in game is meaningless.

Once you’ve mastered said control, you can get faster. Maybe the guys arguing about wheels are bad just haven’t mastered the DS4? My questions are how much time have you spent playing the game? How much progress have you made from day 1 to where you are now?

Ultimately, what I’m getting at is practice=success. And if that isn’t the case for you, that means it’s 1 of two things. You’re not practicing enough (taking advantage of resources to improve, getting the mileage, etc.), or you’re simply useless at said game.

 

[El_Beardo]

Genuinely impressed/disappointed that we've been feeding the troll for a solid five months.

 

[HaydenFan69]

What kind of mind looks at the 12 pages of absolute rinsing it got and decides it's a good idea to remind everyone of it?

Don’t kinkshame. Maybe they get off on being humiliated?

 

[AlexWilmot]

I mean what about people with disabilities and have to use a controller, are they not allowed to compete against able bodied people with a wheel? Why make a different “class”

This was brought up a while ago and was stupid, it’s come back up and it’s still stupid

 

[Junkman55]

The GTS software can and does support two different styles of controllers for driving simulator racing online. You have a DS4 game controller that is a all around controller for all gaming in the Sony library. Then you have a simulator wheel and pedal set up that is only competitive in a racing environment. Maybe it is time to add one daily online race to have a WHEEL SETUP ONLY to eliminate the controller advantage in one competition online race.

 

[El_Beardo]

The GTS software can and does support two different styles of controllers for driving simulator racing online. You have a DS4 game controller that is a all around controller for all gaming in the Sony library. Then you have a simulator wheel and pedal set up that is only competitive in a racing environment. Maybe it is time to add one daily online race to have a WHEEL SETUP ONLY to eliminate the controller advantage in one competition online race.

Genuine questions. More to appease my curiosity, than anything else.

1. How old are you?
2. Is English your first language?

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Yes indeed, but look at the compromises PD have had to make to all the cars to allow DS4 users to find the cars drivable and to be competitive.

Why do you think PD almost never allow open settings in weekly races for race cars, not even one little race, or FIAs? Because open settings allow the car to be setup within a smaller window of performance which is much harder for the DS4 user to control, never mind be competitive. The level of precision required, particularly with small steering corrections when a car becomes more nervous on race tyres would be on the next level.

I am on a DS4. We had a FIA race a good while back at St croix in the F1500TA where tuning was allowed.
My first FIA win. On a DS4.
The reason PD doesn't allow changing settings is because they want people to have the same setup. So it's the driving and not the tuning that does the talki6

 

[Pigems]

Yes indeed, but look at the compromises PD have had to make to all the cars to allow DS4 users to find the cars drivable and to be competitive.

Why do you think PD almost never allow open settings in weekly races for race cars, not even one little race, or FIAs? Because open settings allow the car to be setup within a smaller window of performance which is much harder for the DS4 user to control, never mind be competitive. The level of precision required, particularly with small steering corrections when a car becomes more nervous on race tyres would be on the next level.

PD doesn’t allow tuning in online races for mostly the same reasons that they don’t have performance parts in GTS. Most modern kids couldn’t even point out the muffler or the battery on their car if asked, what are they gonna do in an open tuning race? And remember, they are 80-90% of the player base. The second reason is, in the F1500TA tuning FIA race mentioned above, top teams were buying pro tunes for the races, and that is not how PD intended this game to be. It’s supposed to be a drivers contest, where the only difference at the end of the race is the person driving the car, not the tuning, or the input method, only the driver. 👍


@Junkman55
If you want a realistic driving game, that allows tuning, has a player base, and has real damage, for people that are only on wheels(mostly), just get iRacing already.

 

[mirial]

Ultimately, what I’m getting at is practice=success. And if that isn’t the case for you, that means it’s 1 of two things. You’re not practicing enough (taking advantage of resources to improve, getting the mileage, etc.), or you’re simply useless at said game.

I've said since the beginning that you can practice all you want, but if you practice to the point of perfecting bad habits, then you'll struggle with the more demanding stuff. The conditions laid out in GTS, with assists etc, have a tendency to encourage poor driving habits from the beginning which is why we read many comments of those struggling with more advanced stuff. You're gonna say, "but it's just a game". But then we'll read endless complaints about oversteery cars, bad corners, bad chicanes, ramming, I can't drive in the wet, it's too difficult etc etc.

This is why the driving standard of your average kart racer is probably the equivalent of an A ranked driver in GTS because karting demands that you master all the right habits from day one.....otherwise you end up being too slow to take part or just very dangerous.

@Junkman55 Back to your OP, I think PD should just divide the game into groups to get what you're looking for rather than arbitrarily divide it into Wheel and DS4 users. Beginner, Intermediate, Pro. You'd be sure to find most in the Pro would be wheel users. Almost everyone would find their level and would be happiest in that group and the conditions/physics etc could be adjusted to suit. PD have assumed everyone wants to be an FIA finalist, when in fact it's just a few.

I am on a DS4. We had a FIA race a good while back at St croix in the F1500TA where tuning was allowed.
My first FIA win. On a DS4.
The reason PD doesn't allow changing settings is because they want people to have the same setup. So it's the driving and not the tuning that does the talki6

Yes I remember that, but it just understeers with stock settings far too much like almost all the other racing cars. I don't think people realise how much the cars do because they have got so used to applying much more lock than should be needed. It's questionable as to whether this constitutes real driving skill or not. In general cars that understeer are just slow and dull and are too forgiving for mistakes. I'd argue the more neutral a car is, the better, but that's my opinion.

 

[Kermit_2142]

I've said since the beginning that you can practice all you want, but if you practice to the point of perfecting bad habits, then you'll struggle with the more demanding stuff. The conditions laid out in GTS, with assists etc, have a tendency to encourage poor driving habits from the beginning which is why we read many comments of those struggling with more advanced stuff. You're gonna say, "but it's just a game". But then we'll read endless complaints about oversteery cars, bad corners, bad chicanes, ramming, I can't drive in the wet, it's too difficult etc etc.

This is why the driving standard of your average kart racer is probably the equivalent of an A ranked driver in GTS because karting demands that you master all the right habits from day one.....otherwise you end up being too slow to take part or just very dangerous.

@Junkman55 Back to your OP, I think PD should just divide the game into groups to get what you're looking for rather than arbitrarily divide it into Wheel and DS4 users. Beginner, Intermediate, Pro. You'd be sure to find most in the Pro would be wheel users. Almost everyone would find their level and would be happiest in that group and the conditions/physics etc could be adjusted to suit. PD have assumed everyone wants to be an FIA finalist, when in fact it's just a few.

Yes I remember that, but it just understeers with stock settings far too much like almost all the other racing cars. I don't think people realise how much the cars do because they have got so used to applying much more lock than should be needed. It's questionable as to whether this constitutes real driving skill or not. In general cars that understeer are just slow and dull and are too forgiving for mistakes. I'd argue the more neutral a car is, the better, but that's my opinion.

There is already a Dr ranking system and Sr ranking system.

If you can point out how the game encourages bad technique by critiquing a driver from a world tour I’m all ears…

……


This thread is the biggest load of trash I have ever read. Do you guys even read what your typing??

 

[Pigems]

I've said since the beginning that you can practice all you want, but if you practice to the point of perfecting bad habits, then you'll struggle with the more demanding stuff. The conditions laid out in GTS, with assists etc, have a tendency to encourage poor driving habits from the beginning which is why we read many comments of those struggling with more advanced stuff. You're gonna say, "but it's just a game". But then we'll read endless complaints about oversteery cars, bad corners, bad chicanes, ramming, I can't drive in the wet, it's too difficult etc etc.

This is why the driving standard of your average kart racer is probably the equivalent of an A ranked driver in GTS because karting demands that you master all the right habits from day one.....otherwise you end up being too slow to take part or just very dangerous.

@Junkman55 Back to your OP, I think PD should just divide the game into groups to get what you're looking for rather than arbitrarily divide it into Wheel and DS4 users. Beginner, Intermediate, Pro. You'd be sure to find most in the Pro would be wheel users. Almost everyone would find their level and would be happiest in that group and the conditions/physics etc could be adjusted to suit. PD have assumed everyone wants to be an FIA finalist, when in fact it's just a few.

Yes I remember that, but it just understeers with stock settings far too much like almost all the other racing cars. I don't think people realise how much the cars do because they have got so used to applying much more lock than should be needed. It's questionable as to whether this constitutes real driving skill or not. In general cars that understeer are just slow and dull and are too forgiving for mistakes. I'd argue the more neutral a car is, the better, but that's my opinion.

I play iRacing all the time now, and the inputs required to drive the same tracks, in the same cars, as GTS, is about the same in iRacing. So I think GT has it more right then you believe, since iRacing is supposed to be the most realistic simulator and all. The biggest difference between the two it the throttle, GTS has way more wheel spin than iRacing out of slow corners.

 

[Kermit_2142]

The GTS software can and does support two different styles of controllers for driving simulator racing online. You have a DS4 game controller that is a all around controller for all gaming in the Sony library. Then you have a simulator wheel and pedal set up that is only competitive in a racing environment. Maybe it is time to add one daily online race to have a WHEEL SETUP ONLY to eliminate the controller advantage in one competition online race.

I guess I should start playing call of duty with a real gun too

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

eliminate the controller advantage

Controllers are at a disadvantage, on pace, consistency and race management. I think looking at any top split race will confirm that.

 

[fastone371]

Extra help? It's the default controller. How does that even make sense?

I dont understand, are you denying that the DS4 gets steering, braking, and throttle help over a wheel or did I just word it poorly??

 

[Pigems]

I dont understand, are you denying that the DS4 gets steering, braking, and throttle help over a wheel or did I just word it poorly??

Steering yes, throttle and brake I’m not so sure. GTS’s ABS helps everyone equally in this game, it’s waaaaay overpowered regardless of input device. You can literally just floor the brakes in any car in the game, without ever even having to think about breaking traction from brake pressure.

 

[O604]

I dont understand, are you denying that the DS4 gets steering, braking, and throttle help over a wheel or did I just word it poorly??

No not denying that.

But I'm also not so delusional or desperate to believe that wheels are somehow more "real".

 

[Kermit_2142]

I dont understand, are you denying that the DS4 gets steering, braking, and throttle help over a wheel or did I just word it poorly??

I’m pretty sure it was said waaaaaayyyy back in this thread that all controls have assists, and I’m 99% sure that was from a GTP member called McLaren “smothering or other” who I believe may have been to a world tour or if not is at least a top split driver in EMEA. They said it’s why the handbrake round hairpins is op on time trail and the assists can be gamed if your good enough to understand how.

All user inputs are assisted - wheel, pad or chopsticks (if you prefer), it matters not the input. If it’s plugged into the PS4 and GTS, it’s assisted in some way by the game.


Honestly you wheel elitists would be better off just going to play a different game, or maybe just host your own private “elitist wheel only lobbies” but tbh I doubt many will want to play with you - sorry! - simulate with you.

 

[Junkman55]

To my bloviating friends is PD giving us a true simulator experience with the two completely different controller or are they giving one the advantage over the other. Can the reaction time that is present to drivers with the DS4 and wheel and pedals be calculated fairly, I have my doubts.

 

[Samus]

To my bloviating friends is PD giving the us a true simulator experience with the two completely different controller or are they giving one the advantage over the other. Can the reaction time that is present to drivers with the DS4 and wheel and pedals be calculated fairly, I have my doubts.

They're making a video game with two video game controller input options.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

To my bloviating friends is PD giving the us a true simulator experience with the two completely different controller or are they giving one the advantage over the other. Can the reaction time that is present to drivers with the DS4 and wheel and pedals be calculated fairly, I have my doubts.

Excuse my ignorance if I'm wrong but I believe the toy steering wheels have an option to change how far you rotate the wheel for full lock which doesn't sound realistic.

 

[O604]

Excuse my ignorance if I'm wrong but I believe the toy steering wheels have an option to change how far you rotate the wheel for full lock which doesn't sound realistic.

Actually GTS doesn't let us do that. Every wheel user probably wishes it did though.

There are tension settings though. So you can drive the car like a car or a jet-ski.

 

[El_Beardo]

Excuse my ignorance if I'm wrong but I believe the toy steering wheels have an option to change how far you rotate the wheel for full lock which doesn't sound realistic.

This has been my point from day one.

He's sat in his living room, on a games console, using a toy to play the same game as everybody else.

But nah "hurr durr simulation software, with my super realistic plastic toy wheel."

There's things I'd like to say. Also don't want Famine to nuke my account. So, I'll leave now.

 

[Pigems]

Actually GTS doesn't let us do that. Every wheel user probably wishes it did though.

There are tension settings though. So you can drive the car like a car or a jet-ski.

On a T300 I can change the degrees of rotation on any car, there are 5 adjustment settings. I never change them though, because it resets every time you hit retry or load a new track, so it’s a pain in the butt and not worth it.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

This has been my point from day one.

He's sat in his living room, on a games console, using a toy to play the same game as everybody else.

But nah "hurr durr simulation software, with my super realistic plastic toy wheel."

There's things I'd like to say. Also don't want Famine to nuke my account. So, I'll leave now.

It's not simulation software when a Mazda Demio comes with on the fly adjustable brake bias. 🤷‍♂️

 

[Kermit_2142]

This has been my point from day one.

He's sat in his living room, on a games console, using a toy to play the same game as everybody else.

But nah "hurr durr simulation software, with my super realistic plastic toy wheel."

There's things I'd like to say. Also don't want Famine to nuke my account. So, I'll leave now.

If they don’t get dressed into a full racing outfit too, I’m going to be really disappointed.

 

[O604]

3 words: Pre-race breathalyzer test

😁

 

[Darla Starch]

If they don’t get dressed into a full racing outfit too, I’m going to be really disappointed.

Complete with FIA-approved underwear

 

[mirial]

There is already a Dr ranking system and Sr ranking system.

Yes, but IMO the races would be better to be split into 3 basic groups with increasing levels of difficulty. Since the beginning of GTS, all races including dailies are for all abilities to take part and they're all easy. There's hardly any progression from one car class to the next in GTS because if you've noticed, the higher the PP, the more the cars have been dumbed down so that beginners can take part without it being too difficult.

If you can point out how the game encourages bad technique by critiquing a driver from a world tour I’m all ears…

Because of what Pigems said above:

"Steering yes, throttle and brake I’m not so sure. GTS’s ABS helps everyone equally in this game, it’s waaaaay overpowered regardless of input device. You can literally just floor the brakes in any car in the game, without ever even having to think about breaking traction from brake pressure."

For beginners, how can they possibly learn how to get better if all the feedback and car response is cancelled out completely for them?

In karting, you learn how to brake properly straight away. At a good racing school, they make you drive a tail-happy car straight away so you get confident and in to good habits right away. Good habits being looking ahead the right amount of every given task; braking, rotation, acceleration etc.

"World tour" drivers get round the excessive ABS and understeer by downshifting into a much lower gear mid-corner and then short-shifting back into the correct gear. You can call it skill, but there is no real penalty if you get this "trick" wrong either, unlike in reality. Even though it's "just a game" it should bear some resemblance to reality...reality or close to it is much more fun, and it makes you much sharper and better.

 

[Pigems]

Yes, but IMO the races would be better to be split into 3 basic groups with increasing levels of difficulty. Since the beginning of GTS, all races including dailies are for all abilities to take part and they're all easy. There's hardly any progression from one car class to the next in GTS because if you've noticed, the higher the PP, the more the cars have been dumbed down so that beginners can take part without it being too difficult.



Because of what Pigems said above:

"Steering yes, throttle and brake I’m not so sure. GTS’s ABS helps everyone equally in this game, it’s waaaaay overpowered regardless of input device. You can literally just floor the brakes in any car in the game, without ever even having to think about breaking traction from brake pressure."

For beginners, how can they possibly learn how to get better if all the feedback and car response is cancelled out completely for them?

In karting, you learn how to brake properly straight away. At a good racing school, they make you drive a tail-happy car straight away so you get confident and in to good habits right away. Good habits being looking ahead the right amount of every given task; braking, rotation, acceleration etc.

"World tour" drivers get round the excessive ABS and understeer by downshifting into a much lower gear mid-corner and then short-shifting back into the correct gear. You can call it skill, but there is no real penalty if you get this "trick" wrong either, unlike in reality. Even though it's "just a game" it should bear some resemblance to reality...reality or close to it is much more fun, and it makes you much sharper and better.

It sounds like you’re just not playing the right game, the game you are describing is already out, and has been since 2008, it’s called iRacing. GT is a “for everybody” game, it will never be 100% sim, and it would lose too much of its player base by going to far towards a full sim.

 

[Yard_Sale]

Even though this is a troll thread, I’m still on board for a daily race “D” in the next iteration of Gran Turismo. One that is in fact more “proper sim” oriented. Some tuning allowed (no where of the in depth tuning in ACC, Iracing, etc.) but enough to where you’ll gain a slight edge if you put the time in.

Minimum 35 minute race with a maximum time of 50 minutes. Damage on. You have to set a new qually each day. An FIA type qualifying format would just chase people away.

HOWEVER, unlike this thread suggests…it’s open to any and everyone, wheel, controller, keyboard, whatever. Make it accessible for everyone.

It would give people who want a more “sim” feel what they want, while at the same time it wouldn’t push the Gran Turismo franchise into the fringe market which they wouldn’t do anyways.

Everyone wins. And it would probably be enough for a guy like me to stay a console player.