Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[Tassie_tiger]

My response would be, as I said earlier, that not everyone has access to or can afford internet gaming.
Offline gaming is a staple of the games industry.
But that doesn't mean online isn't taking over.
And it would seem to me that offline is a dying breed.

It's almost guaranteed that this discussion in (how ever many) years will seem laughable.

 

[ImaRobot]

My response would be, as I said earlier, that not everyone has access to or can afford internet gaming.
Offline gaming is a staple of the games industry.
But that doesn't mean online isn't taking over.

It's almost guaranteed that this discussion in (how ever many) years will seem laughable.

Exactly, and that's why I think offline is prevalent. You've extended my point with those first two sentences. My point was never that offline is more important, or where it's at, just that it's still a major focus in conjunction with online.

Who knows, this can change in the next 10 years. As of now though, this is what I think.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Exactly, and that's why I think offline is prevalent. You've extended my point with those first two sentences. My point was never that offline is more important, or where it's at, just that it's still a major focus in conjunction with online.

Who knows, this can change in the next 10 years. As of now though, this is what I think.

Sure, it's still relevant, and important to some.
I don't think you would see me state otherwise.
But for my money online is where it's heading.
And GTSport is heading in the right direction.

Almost (actually everyone) I know wants to race their mates.
It's simply how the world is today.
Accessibility has grown exponentially and that's what most want.

And as I said earlier, the game is called "Sport".
If that's not your thing, fair enough.
But pushing against progress seems moot to me.
And arguing against it even more so.

 

[ImaRobot]

Sure, it's still relevant, and important to some.
I don't think you would see me state otherwise.
But for my money online is where it's heading.
And GTSport is heading in the right direction.

It's still just as relevant to many, even Developers.

Almost (actually everyone) I know wants to race their mates.
It's simply how the world is today.
Accessibility has grown exponentially and that's what most want.

And as I said earlier, the game is called "Sport".
If that's not your thing, fair enough.
But pushing against progress seems moot to me.
And arguing against it even more so.

I actually know a lot of people from both camps. I myself play online a lot, but I also play offline just as much. Right now I'm waiting for the last quarter of the year, when all the good games come out, and I'll likely be back to online primarily for the most part, especially for Forza and Destiny. GTS will come later, but first I need to actually purchase a PS4 that'll likely be more towards Christmas though.

The discussion was less about the game, and more about recent games in general. I know what they're aiming at, I'm just sad at the significant lack of offline. I never said that online isn't my thing, because it's quite the opposite. It's just that I believe that offline is just as necessary as online. I've also never denied the progression of online, I just don't believe it's outright taking over any offline segment.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

It's still just as relevant to many, even Developers.


I actually know a lot of people from both camps. I myself play online a lot, but I also play offline just as much. Right now I'm waiting for the last quarter of the year, when all the good games come out, and I'll likely be back to online primarily for the most part, especially for Forza and Destiny. GTS will come later, but first I need to actually purchase a PS4 that'll likely be more towards Christmas though.

The discussion was less about the game, and more about recent games in general. I know what they're aiming at, I'm just sad at the significant lack of offline. I never said that online isn't my thing, because it's quite the opposite. It's just that I believe that offline is just as necessary as online. I've also never denied the progression of online, I just don't believe it's outright taking over any offline segment.

Yeh, obviously most still put time (money) into offline.
But kind of scaringly I can quickly see the day when that's the rare and not the norm.

To be honest, I do the GT career and quickly forget it.
Essentially I do it because it's there.
Otherwise, and for that matter well before I've I finished it, it's to the lobbies I go.
It's difficult for me to believe that most folks don't do the same.

So while it's somewhat disappointing that the traditional career isn't happening, it won't be missed that much.
I've plenty of favourite games over the years that I no longer own.
Times move on.

Now, whether PD can actually supply us with a heavily online experience that has replayability is the next question.
I'm hoping so.
Disregarding things such as the livery editor, the online racing needs to shine.
Be that racing with mates or random lobbies or predetermined Sport events.
This will be the test of success or failure of this game.

For me, how lacking the offline portion is will fall into insignificance depending on how it delivers online.

 

[rono_thomas]

Interesting read online vs offline debate, kind of think its the age old "pineapple on pizza" result though.

 

[Johnnypenso]

My response would be, as I said earlier, that not everyone has access to or can afford internet gaming.
Offline gaming is a staple of the games industry.
But that doesn't mean online isn't taking over.
And it would seem to me that offline is a dying breed.

It's almost guaranteed that this discussion in (how ever many) years will seem laughable.

Since no one else is able to, can you explain why more than 60% of PS4 owners don't even have access to online gaming if online is taking over? One could assume online usage isn't 100% among those that do have access which would put frequent online gaming at a third or less of PS4 owners with an educated guess.

 

[Castrol96]

Would PD take the suggestions list in account for GTS dlc?

Kaz did once speak of the suggestions list back in 2015.

 

[rono_thomas]

Since no one else is able to, can you explain why more than 60% of PS4 owners don't even have access to online gaming if online is taking over? One could assume online usage isn't 100% among those that do have access which would put frequent online gaming at a third or less of PS4 owners with an educated guess.

I would have thought its growth vs PS4 units would be more relevant, if its reached a plataeu or is still growing.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Interesting read online vs offline debate, kind of think its the age old "pineapple on pizza" result though.

Online vs. Offline is an interesting intellectual exercise. Pineapple on pizza is the devil's work

 

[MisterOne77]

Off topic, but I saw this video in the video and screenshots thread, shared it to the sound update thread and now I'm sharing it here. Everyone must listen to how much the sounds have improved.

 

[TheNuvolari]

Off topic, but I saw this video in the video and screenshots thread, shared it to the sound update thread and now I'm sharing it here. Everyone must listen to how much the sounds have improved.

*Waiting for someone to say every other game sounds better*

 

[ImaRobot]

Pineapple on pizza is the devil's work

I'm going to have to quote the AUP on this

• You will not knowingly post any material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate.

 

[azeeza]

Don't forget there are people who share PSN+ so they have access to online without suscribing to PSN+, like myself
Of course it s not significant, but it has its pourcentage

 

[Johnnypenso]

Don't forget there are people who share PSN+ so they have access to online without suscribing to PSN+, like myself
Of course it s not significant, but it has its pourcentage

And people who have no access also share their PS4's as well. The only hard number we have to work with is actual consoles connected though.

 

[albertyouwrong]

The way I see it with career mode, it is nice to just be given a list of races to choose from and just jump right in. I mean yea, we can do this with arcade mode... but it just doesn't have that same feeling of progression. Plus, it can get clunky trying to choose all the options for the race. Like, imagine going to a restaurant and having to choose every single ingredient for your food-- sometimes I just want to be given a menu, I pick something, and done. Simple.

But, and this is a big butt, but online matchmaking is huge. Almost everyone from all skill levels can jump online and have a good, close race with real people just as fast as you. I didn't think the beta was gonna be a big deal, but it turned out to be a game changer for me. The difference in fun offline vs. online is like playing a first person shooter, deathmatch against bots, compared to playing online versus people.

I just don't see offline racing as a major thing for long, except for maybe practice sessions and hotlaps... But even going to a virtual trackday with others for a time attack is funner than doing it solo.

 

[azeeza]

And people who have no access also share their PS4's as well. The only hard number we have to work with is actual consoles connected though.

Sure but can you remind me where is the the 60% of ps4 users that don't have access to online contents ? Is it from sony ? 2X millions of PSN+ suscriber ?
If it s the case, without access, you can share but it doesn't increase the PS4 owners, in countrary ghost PSN+ users ( with sharing option) can increase this number ( potential online players )
But in this PSN+ numbers, all don't play online too, so in final that doesn't change the stat.

 

[Scaff]

*Waiting for someone to say every other game sounds better*

Cut the flame bait

 

[Johnnypenso]

Sure but can you remind me where is the the 60% of ps4 users that don't have access to online contents ? Is it from sony ? 2X millions of PSN+ suscriber ?
If it s the case, without access, you can share but it doesn't increase the PS4 owners, in countrary ghost PSN+ users ( with sharing option) can increase this number ( potential online players )
But in this PSN+ numbers, all don't play online too, so in final that doesn't change the stat.

Link was posted a couple of pages ago.

 

[eSZee]

Next PlayStation tech is already there it just needs to get cheaper to go under 399 as a complete box.

The tech, sort of. The form factor, no. The APUs that will likely be inside the PS5 are not coming out til next year. Talks even suggest that updated versions of those, coming in 2019, might be used.

 

[ScottPuss20]

2016
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/heres-how-many-ps-plus-subscribers-there-are/1100-6441361/

2017
https://www.vg247.com/2017/05/23/ps...ly-active-users-ps-plus-subs-over-26-million/

25% growth in a year.
Online is where it is at.



From the videos, Arcade races have prizes as well.

Off by a couple of % points but there you go. Note that those figures for subs include all platforms though, not just PS4.

Thank you for clearing this up for me. It's interesting that most PS4 owners aren't PS Plus subscribers. Yet online is still a major aspect.

If the PS5 comes out before 2020 I will be very surprised personally.

The fact we're even talking about the PS5 is ridiculous. The PS4 hasn't run it's course yet.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Thank you for clearing this up for me. It's interesting that most PS4 owners aren't PS Plus subscribers. Yet online is still a major aspect.

The fact we're even talking about the PS5 is ridiculous. The PS4 hasn't run it's course yet.

Yes but the Xbox one X is a thing now. Sony have to respond to that and the PS4 isn't it.

 

[marcvic]

I get that online is a huge part of gaming - I think if there was a trackble stat for hours played, online would edge out ahead

However, there just always has to be experiences like Horizon, Uncharted, Metal Gear, Last of Us, BioShock, LA Noire, Resident Evil, Dead Space, God of War, Final Fantasy, Last Guardian etc. etc., etc. In other words, story driven single player big budget AAA video games. Those always have to exist and be a big part of gaming.

Looking at it from that perspective, I can understand why a lot of folks are upset about the absence of the standard career mode. I am ecstatic that arcade/custom race is integrated into the in-game economy, and that, along with all the offline activities is enough for me.

I find it very interesting that PD have not changed their stance on shipping the game with the typical career, despite being fully aware that the long-time fans are so taken back by it - very bold gamble on their part. This determination reminds me of PS1 and how GT1 was so different than anything that we were used to.

 

[cutmeamango]

Since no one else is able to, can you explain why more than 60% of PS4 owners don't even have access to online gaming if online is taking over? One could assume online usage isn't 100% among those that do have access which would put frequent online gaming at a third or less of PS4 owners with an educated guess.

60%, 55% or 70% PS4 users may not pay for PS+ for a host of reasons: too expensive, children "owned" consoles, don't see value, pays for other services, not their primary platform for online gaming, no interest in online gaming.

But all that is meaningless because for modern games' structure and their revenue models, these users are in second plan.
Why?

Look at those platforms' (Steam, Live, PSN) MAUs. Look at their Network revenue. Look at top grossing games. Look at most active games. Look at ARPU, ARPPU and Average Play Time. Look at viewership in gaming content in stream websites and youtube.

Online isn't "taking over", it has taken over.

It would be particularly impressive since various Playstation chaps have been saying similar things every time they have released sales data since the PS4 launched and outside of holiday periods it has never been anywhere near the like for like comparison Sony pretends it is.

Sure.

Yes but the Xbox one X is a thing now. Sony have to respond to that and the PS4 isn't it.

Ehhhhh, we'll have to wait til the holiday season is over to know if it is a thing.

 

[Imari]

The fact we're even talking about the PS5 is ridiculous. The PS4 hasn't run it's course yet.

You can bet that Sony's thinking about it. It's probably not that ridiculous then.

 

[Coiler]

The tech, sort of. The form factor, no. The APUs that will likely be inside the PS5 are not coming out til next year. Talks even suggest that updated versions of those, coming in 2019, might be used.

If there is a plan to bring out PS5 in 2019 Sony has to be hard at work already. As this time they will do a modified version of APU to suit gaming specific use. Like Richard said its not the compute power that will be a headache but Ram and storage. Loading times this gen are straight on coming back to C64 times. Playing trough FFXV I could literally feel that my life slips away like sand between the fingers (all those loading screens).

 

[Soundtrack]

That's yet to be seen.

Of course, but I'm willing to bet GTS trailers will run in loops on almost every Bravia HDR badged display in store this holiday season. Visuals may not tell the full story but they are a pretty strong argument.

60%, 55% or 70% PS4 users may not pay for PS+ for a host of reasons: too expensive, children "owned" consoles, don't see value, pays for other services, not their primary platform for online gaming, no interest in online gaming.

But all that is meaningless because for modern games' structure and their revenue models, these users are in second plan.

Are you suggesting adopting a business model that ignores/excludes a distinctive majority of your installed user base is the way to go?

Sure.

Not sure what the sources of this graph are, but they seemingly conflicts with Sony's figures.

After 4 fiscal years PS4 has shipped 60M units worldwide. In the same timeframe PS2 reached 71,3M. Almost 20% more.

 

[Imari]

Of course, but I'm willing to bet GTS trailers will run in loops on almost every Bravia HDR badged display in store this holiday season. Visuals may not tell the full story but they are a pretty strong argument.

Sure, but Driveclub was also an incredible looking game and yet I hardly think that game can be credited with moving hardware. Graphics are great and all, but people don't buy games for graphics alone. Nice graphics at best get people to look closer at the game and see whether it might be for them. I think of good graphics in this sense as really compelling advertising, it gets eyes on your product but you still need a solid game to make the sale.

Unfortunately, GT Sport has put itself in a space that has historically been pretty niche, at a time when racing games don't really seem to be selling that well. None of the Forza titles, AC, pCARS Driveclub, the Codies F1 games or Dirt Rally/Dirt 4 have really knocked it out of the park sales-wise. The only real reason that GTS would sell gang-busters and push hardware is the brand. It's not a revolutionary product like GT1 was, it's not an early bird like GT3 was, and it's not a ridiculously content filled behemoth that no other game can match like GT2 and GT4. GTS is there or thereabouts with it's current competitors, and which one you prefer is mostly down to taste rather than any one of them being straight up superior as was often the case with early Gran Turismos.

I mean, to what extent do we expect other games like FM7 and pCARS2 to drive hardware sales? FM7 might, but I sort of doubt that it'll be significant. pCARS2 also might, but it's multiplatform and the whole point of pushing hardware is to drive your user base above the other options. If you're buying hardware for pC2 there's a pretty strong argument for just buying PC hardware anyway. Realistically, at this stage in the generation I expect most of the potential customers for these sorts of niche games to already have their hardware.

Pushing hardware with GTS relies on there being a significant amount of people that haven't found a reason to buy a PS4 for four years, but that a Gran Turismo game is enough to push them over the edge. A Gran Turismo game that is largely unlike any previous GT game but an awful lot like several games that have already been released but weren't enough to inspire a purchase.

If people simply wanted a pretty looking racing game, they have either an Xbox 1 for one of the numerous Forza titles or a PS4 for Driveclub. The people who will buy hardware at GTS release are those who have been waiting specifically for a Gran Turismo game, and I really don't know how many of those there are. GT6 would suggest possibly not as many as there once was.

 

[NixxxoN]

Yes but the Xbox one X is a thing now. Sony have to respond to that and the PS4 isn't it.

Sony doesnt need to respond yet. They have soundly beaten the xbox one with the ps4, thats why microsoft advanced the new generation... The goal for sony should be to launch a PS5 that will beat the Xbox one X in performance, they may do that in a couple of years

 

[Tornado]

Sure.

Thank you for providing a graph that contains information I already knew.


Could it be, this time just like last time, that you didn't bother to read what I said before you rushed to regurgitate sales information at me as if I was too stupid to check what PS4 sales were before commenting on Sony's PR about PS4 sales?

After 4 fiscal years PS4 has shipped 60M units worldwide. In the same timeframe PS2 reached 71,3M. Almost 20% more.

The PS4 has not finished its fourth year yet.