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Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion
- Thread starter Formidable
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OK, I have counted them all and with 3 Dlc I have 80cars, but many of the cars are in my mind are kind of "duplicates" kind of like those skylines in GT series.
Three AlfaRomeo Mitos and like 13 Lotuses where many are just like with the Mitos. How many Exiges variations for example do you really need?
Ok then, it seems there are 15 locations, some of those are really boring but Mugello, Brands Hatch, Silverstone and Nurburing is what I find fun. When playing online I see that monza and Spa are popular. So only 4tracks are widly used in AC.
In my view PC have larger variations of cars and more tracks that I find to be fun and it seems people find more than just 4 tracks to be popular/populated like in AC. The content in regular Forza is simply awesome. So I pretty much expect that in this "demo" every car of those 60 will be different models and not three or four slight variations of the same car. Like with Lotus in AC..
Vallelunga 3 layouts, Trento-bodone Hillclimb, Zandvoort, Spa, Silverstone 3 layouts, Nurburing-Nordschleife 8 layouts, Mugello, Monza 2 layouts, Magione, Imola, Drift track, Drag, Brands Hatch 2 layouts, Black Cat County 3 layouts, Barcelona 2 layouts.
Your exaggeration by calling out my statement about PC/AC as blatantly false is kind of like calling some one a lieyer when he says the water is either bluish or greenish when the colour is turquoise.
Scaff
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Sorry but you don't get to reduce a car or track count based on simply what you think is boring or not.
If you intend to carry out a comparison across titles you count all track variations of all track for all titles (and the same for cars).
To claim that PCars (as an example, but it also applies to AC) has less than 60 cars and less that 6 tracks is clearly untrue; its also a rather big leap to suggest that PD would not do this with GTS, given that they have done so on every title they have released.
You also failed to mention that as of now Apex will not have wheel support at launch, which for a PC title makes the car/track count utterly moot.
Lets be honest car and track count are not the only thing in a sim, in fact for many the physics engine accuracy tops all (certainly it does fo me in line with good wheel support).
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Yeah sure, PC is a more content rich game than AC and does not feel as demo like as AC does. But Forza Apex wich is what I have understood a cut down version(demo) of game found on the Xbox is up there content wise with AC and PC.
60 different cars and probably 6 much recognized, popular and beloved track locations will probably feel more complete than AC/PC. Okey physics wise it may not be all the way up there, but how fun is it to see so many versions of the same car like Lotus Exige like in AC?
GT and Forza, when/if they get their physic right AC/PC will be left for dust, they are already content wise anyway.
Scaff
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With a solid physics engine even different variants of the same car often drive totally differently and as I mentioned without wheel support Apex can have as many cars and tracks as it likes, it will make no difference.
None of which changes the fact that your claim was totally false.
Its an if and a very big if at that. Given the gap that currently exists GT and (to a lesser degree) Forza still have a very long way to go (and the likes of AC and PC are not exactly going to just stop development).
Oh and I give GT a nod on numbers only for car count, it has a shocking lack of up to date models in its car library.
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- HamiltonMP427
Why would they be left in the dust? PD has been doing this for nearly 20 years now and still hasn't got it close to what many expect or know a real car to feel like. Based on either actually doing track days, or karting or racing on the amateur or even close to professional level. Even just general driving for instance. Forza I feel is a bit closer to realistic tire models due to their work with Pirelli but still some distance off from the feel in wheel or controller.
AC and PC aren't big groups either with a lot of ability to get the sheer number of cars like actual first tier developers of Sony or Microsoft. So it's really hard to gauge exactly how they're left in the dust. When they're not as old as T10 and PD nor are they as well known or ingrained in the motorsports car world. So, for what they do have in perspective to their identity and size in the car racing genre they're actually not bad. No one needs an encyclopedia of cars from the late 1800s to now, but at the same time people will want it and if that's your focus then sure no one will ever beat PD's GT cause they seem to care more about that then the actual game.
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I do recognize the effort of Slightly Mad and Kunos Simulazioni but this day and age a product is a product. They will be judged equally by the players. -This game give me this sensation and let me do this, while this game lacks this and that.
Some one looking for a game just need to google or ask a clerk in a store and they will get recommendations based of what the client is after. So, turn10, polyphonydigital, codemasters, kunoz Simulazioni and slightly mad will be judge equally by the gamer in the end, what gives him the most fun. Right now, today, it is, AC for me, but it is kinda boring when you think that only two or tree cars and four tracks are worth your attention.
Some one looking for a game just need to google or ask a clerk in a store and they will get recommendations based of what the client is after. So, turn10, polyphonydigital, codemasters, kunoz Simulazioni and slightly mad will be judge equally by the gamer in the end, what gives him the most fun. Right now, today, it is, AC for me, but it is kinda boring when you think that only two or tree cars and four tracks are worth your attention.
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Emphasis mine. So you're moving the goalposts, then? Seems to be a trend.
FM6A has six locations (Brands, Spa, Rio, Sebring, TGTT, and Yas Marina). That's all.
Then stop projecting your personal targets. It doesn't matter what content you personally deem acceptable: the original statement was incorrect.
Scaff
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Worth your attention, as in you, you don't get to chose for the rest of us what will or will not appeal.
For example you hold up the six tracks in Apex as all worthy, yet for me half of them are of no interest (TGTT, Yas and Rio), the difference is I don't dismiss them on behalf of everyone else.
I would suspect that you must hate Dirt: Rally on this kind of basis, give that it only has 40 odd cars (on your ratios that's what, one or two good ones) and effectively twelve stages (as the rest are variants on those twelve). Yet for most nether of these factors is a problem, because the physics model behind it is solid.
- 716
You is of course me but used as to describe a situation in a more impersonal, toned down way to not sound like it sound the post is about me me me me... And it is not only mine opinion that I try to put down in words.
For example, instead of writing: I have a Ferrari and it is the best car in the world. It sounds better and more "neutral" if i write: Those lucky enough to have a Ferrari thinks it is the most enjoyable car in the world. you see what I mean?.
No one is thinking for you and forcing you to like things for you, it is just a way of saying things without being all pompous and stuff.
Anyone that do not agree is free to give his opinion, so I am not said at all that some do not agree with me. Actually it makes things fun. How boring it would be if everyone were yes-sayers.
I hope I could explain this...
For example, instead of writing: I have a Ferrari and it is the best car in the world. It sounds better and more "neutral" if i write: Those lucky enough to have a Ferrari thinks it is the most enjoyable car in the world. you see what I mean?.
No one is thinking for you and forcing you to like things for you, it is just a way of saying things without being all pompous and stuff.
Anyone that do not agree is free to give his opinion, so I am not said at all that some do not agree with me. Actually it makes things fun. How boring it would be if everyone were yes-sayers.
I hope I could explain this...
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Scaff
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No, it inaccurate and wrong.
In future present your opinions as your own and do not reflect them (for any reason) onto a wider group.
If you want to use the English language correctly to provide opinion you would actually reword "I have a Ferrari and it is the best car in the world." as "I have a Ferrari and I think its the best car in the world". The first part is a statement of objective fact and the second part is a subjective opinion.
However this is not for discussion, you will stick to presenting your opinion as your own in future, as what you are currently doing is not modest it all, its an attempt to add weight to your opinion by presenting it as the view of a wider body.
Its also still an utterly moot point, because not opinion (either individual or group) gets to reduce a car or track count based on 'likes'.
- 716
In both GT and AC where there are multiple variations of a car like with Exige in AC and Skyline in GT it should be listed as one car, only when choosing the car "I" should be given the option to choose if I want year model 97 98 nurspec or what ever version I am looking for. It is still the same 3d model that only has a small part like wing changed/added or an carbon fibre texture used on the hood or roof. Not a new car it is the same 3d model.
And the specs/attributes, if I change the the specs of the Nissan Gtr is it a new car in the game or the same car with different specs? If that is how you sees it than if it is possible to swap engines and other parts of the car then the game have at least three times as many cars as the game originally states. "Duplicates" as I call those skylines in GT and Exiges in AC seems to me more of taking a easier way out of filling the car list. Instead of multiple variants of the Exige I would appreciate a different car all together.
And the specs/attributes, if I change the the specs of the Nissan Gtr is it a new car in the game or the same car with different specs? If that is how you sees it than if it is possible to swap engines and other parts of the car then the game have at least three times as many cars as the game originally states. "Duplicates" as I call those skylines in GT and Exiges in AC seems to me more of taking a easier way out of filling the car list. Instead of multiple variants of the Exige I would appreciate a different car all together.
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Scaff
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Duplicates are a valid area of discussion, however GT takes this to a level almost no one else does (Renault and Luceta Clios and Purple Skylines as separate models for example), if its however a truly different specification (engine, drive-train, aero, etc.) then I have no issue with it being classed as a different model.
That is as long as the exact same standard is applied to all titles being compared, however this again was not what you were doing, "hen you think that only two or tree cars and four tracks are worth your attention." has nothing to do with duplicates and is simply an attempt to limit car and track count based on a personal preference projected onto others.
Either clearly post it as a personal preference or apply the exact same criteria for counting to all titles.
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I'm a bit unsure about the meaning of the yaw rates of the driven wheels, with the car not having moved, I've only seen yaw rates applied to the chassis as a whole, but I agree that starting from standstill there will be transient effects, but wouldn't they only last a few hundredths of a second until the car starts to move, and consequently not have that much effect, then a steady accelerating state is reached with an uneven road producing variations in grip?
Scaff
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The overall yaw rate of a vehicle is a result of the yaw rate at each contact point, so while the two are linked the tyres are the driving force behind this. However it does then get very complcated as the two start to influence and affect each other - which is why a good physics model is so damn hard to get right.
Its covered in great detail in both Milliken and Milliken's Race Car engineering and Skip Barbers going faster, and is the main determining factor behind a cars state of balance. In simple terms if the combined yaw rate of the front tyres is greater than that of the rear you are understeering and if the reverse is true then you are oversteering.
Those initial effects set the balance of the car up for its initial launch (and keep in mind that is what is being discussed here - the effect torque has on a car launching from a standstill) and will be the dominant factor in the cars balance for at least its travel distance in first gear and depending on torque and gear ratios possible beyond that.
Yes the track surface will be a factor in this, but unless the track has massive variances to it (and most race tracks do not, they are normally high grade, fine chip asphalt with little to no camber) is almost never going to be a dominant factor. The biggest environmental factor on a track then tends to be marbles (of which GT has none), rubberised in sections of the track (which GT shows no evidence of including), variances in standing water (which GT mainly deals with as a set value across the entire track) and the painted curbs (which GT does factor in).
The environment will always be a factor, but will almost always be a second order factor (unless its a 'public' road, loose or mixed surfaces or snow/ice) to the load transfer and driven wheel torque. Which is exactly why environmental factors alone are not enough for a realistic simulation of what happens to a car launching from standstill (as PD seem to have realised for MR cars at least and attempted to fix for FR as well).
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If it was equal rational judgement, then you wouldn't have put them on the same level as FM or GT, in fact you wouldn't have put either in that arena since they don't have the same goal in the first place as GT or FM.
I can see that with a casual user, but an unbiased well traversed user in racing games, like many of us here are...wont usually do that, unless they're biased toward a franchise to begin with. Also as two mods told you, why are you projecting your likes or dislikes on others in this debate. You may only find that much content worth your time (I have no idea why) but me I find time to enjoy a lot of it.
- 716
@Scaff
It is your take, ie your way of interpreting my post that way. I am simply saying, only just a hand full of cars are making an impact for me in the car line up in AC. And to make things worse there are many versions of a model that just should count as one car but with some variations selectable if desired.. Like when you buy a car Irl, you choose a basic model and chooses which package you desire, ie an 4cyl turbo diesel or 6cyl straight NA, It is still the same base model not a new car. So why should the same base model with slight variation to the specs be a counted as a different car if not just to fill out the car list of the game?
But I do like the game(AC), especially when driving on northschliefe with 30 other players and it is only a practice session, ie like a regular track day irl. That is so much fun, but having more "relatable" cars would be so much more fun.
And I like PC, Forza and even GT. I even touch Iracing sometimes. But I do have my opinion as I do pay for those products and I feel that I am entitled to think how I want.
It is your take, ie your way of interpreting my post that way. I am simply saying, only just a hand full of cars are making an impact for me in the car line up in AC. And to make things worse there are many versions of a model that just should count as one car but with some variations selectable if desired.. Like when you buy a car Irl, you choose a basic model and chooses which package you desire, ie an 4cyl turbo diesel or 6cyl straight NA, It is still the same base model not a new car. So why should the same base model with slight variation to the specs be a counted as a different car if not just to fill out the car list of the game?
But I do like the game(AC), especially when driving on northschliefe with 30 other players and it is only a practice session, ie like a regular track day irl. That is so much fun, but having more "relatable" cars would be so much more fun.
And I like PC, Forza and even GT. I even touch Iracing sometimes. But I do have my opinion as I do pay for those products and I feel that I am entitled to think how I want.
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Would it be a good guess that the "complications" the French journalist talked about were NEO related?
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- Halcyon925
I can agree with that. Designing a game for a more powerful system after having optimized the game for the less powerful version would, logically, be a hassle. Kazunori, being Vice President of SCE, had to have known about Sony's plans with the NEO. Say he has known of the NEO, Polyphony had to be working on optimization for the PS4 and NEO months before these leaks came to be.
All this does is ultimately extend the time needed to complete GTS and GT7 to prepare for the NEO, rather than having a sudden change of pace; which would take much longer.
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As I expected to be honest, the reason for the delay could very well be the PS4K version, which I'll bet my moneys is why GTSport is being kept underwraps.
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The problem with the NEO/PS4K is that on paper the GPU is a big upgrade but to keep PS4 owners happy they are implementing some pretty strict rules that will hold it back a lot.
I'm not going to pay full price again for NEO if games will be held back for who knows how long to keep PS4 owners happy.
I'm not going to pay full price again for NEO if games will be held back for who knows how long to keep PS4 owners happy.
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Us PS4 gamers have no idea what's going on either. Do we stay with our original PS4's and risk playing a game that doesn't function too well (i.e. unstable framerate), or do we put down extra money for a new PS4 to get a good gaming experience?
I, for one, will only be getting a PS4 NEO/K/.5 if I can get a sweet trade in deal for my original PS4. I mean, I only got mine 4 months ago, so it feels even more painful to me.
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- andyparks
They could still release gt sport some time this year and all thus talk about the new ps4 should be taken with a pinch of salt why would sony let someone leak this sales of the ps4 would plummet because any one who's going to buy a ps4 is now going to wait and the vr sales are going to be less
