Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[Scaff]

After yesterday's discussion on graphics/lighting, I thought I'd play PCars and DC to refresh my memory, in terms of a GTS comparison... (sorry if this is a bit TL;DR!)

DC:

• Bizarrely, almost unbelievably good in rainy conditions.
• Daytime conditions, not so great - has that 'driving through a collection of assets' feel (still good though)
  
• Sometimes when a low, 3D cloud catches the light in AM/PM, turns into this horrific dayglo marshmallow

PCars:

• Pretty rubbish in all conditions
• At night, the full starfield is visible at all times, very odd this
• Weather effects are rubbish (spoiled by DC)
• God rays at sunset are just not good at all
  
• Daytime, very pronounced 'driving through assets' feel
  
• EDIT: The UI is also fugly

So, overall, PCars on PC is probably stunning. On PS4, not so much. BUT, the sound is fantastic. The incidental stuff - the little pops and bangs, the rattles as the chassis moves about, the rumble strips. If GTS can get anywhere near this (lol, as if), I'd be happy. DC is optimised for the PS4 by an (ex) 1st party dev, so naturally looks a lot better.

So, to cut a long and boring story short, if anything, my thoughts yesterday on GTS's lighting model being superior are only more pronounced now.

To be fair we have only seen GTS under one set of conditions at present and using the past two titles as a reference they were far better lighting wise in clear weather than they were in the wet in my view, almost the opposite of what you find in DC.

I would agree on PCars, its lighting model is not as good as either GT or DC, however while the god rays are not pretty the one thing the light does provide well is the challenge produced by driving into a setting sun in terms of the effect it has on your vision.

In regard to the star-field being visible at all times,the past two GT's have suffered from this exact same issue as well, the best I've seen it done on console is in Dirt Rally. The headlights and night driving lights reduce the visible star-field a lot, but if you break those lights it becomes more visible. Local lighting at night under these conditions is also well done, with clear changes in the lighting level as you move under tree cover in comparison to the open (Wales in the forests is far more of a challenge that open country in Sweden with broken lights as an example).

I personally get the 'driving through' assets feel in GT more than just about anything, but that's more down to the over sterile nature of the environments than anything else, its the one thing that in part breaks the immersion provided by the lighting for me.

 

[Tired Tyres]

So this game not only lacks a competent one player game but now variable weather and changing time of day transitions are out as well? Is this a PS2 game?

Looks like that £24.99 upgrade pack for ProCars would be a more appropriate use of my money. There's also a couple of DC packs that aren't covered by my season pass...

 

[jm79]

To be fair we have only seen GTS under one set of conditions at present and using the past two titles as a reference they were far better lighting wise in clear weather than they were in the wet in my view, almost the opposite of what you find in DC.

I would agree on PCars, its lighting model is not as good as either GT or DC, however while the god rays are not pretty the one thing the light does provide well is the challenge produced by driving into a setting sun in terms of the effect it has on your vision.

In regard to the star-field being visible at all times,the past two GT's have suffered from this exact same issue as well, the best I've seen it done on console is in Dirt Rally. The headlights and night driving lights reduce the visible star-field a lot, but if you break those lights it becomes more visible. Local lighting at night under these conditions is also well done, with clear changes in the lighting level as you move under tree cover in comparison to the open (Wales in the forests is far more of a challenge that open country in Sweden with broken lights as an example).

I personally get the 'driving through' assets feel in GT more than just about anything, but that's more down to the over sterile nature of the environments than anything else, its the one thing that in part breaks the immersion provided by the lighting for me.

Good point about the light as a challenge in PCars.

Dirt Rally sounds quite well done, I'd love to play this to see (though I think I'll be so stressed out trying not to crash I won't even notice haha).

And the 'driving through assets' thing wasn't meant to be a non-GT criticism, it affects all racing games sadly (that's what impressed me most about DC's weather effects, being the first time it became less of an issue).

Have you played AC much? Would love to know how this stacked up against the games we've mentioned.

 

[Scaff]

Good point about the light as a challenge in PCars.

Dirt Rally sounds quite well done, I'd love to play this to see (though I think I'll be so stressed out trying not to crash I won't even notice haha).

And the 'driving through assets' thing wasn't meant to be a non-GT criticism, it affects all racing games sadly (that's what impressed me most about DC's weather effects, being the first time it became less of an issue).

Have you played AC much? Would love to know how this stacked up against the games we've mentioned.

I've only had a few quick goes on AC around a friends house, what I've seen of it so far is very, very impressive (above everything covered so far in terms of physics), to the point I have it on pre-order for PS4 and am eagerly awaiting it.

Dirt Rally is a challenge, but its well enough balanced that I find you are able to enjoy it even when you are not winning, but it certainly quite different in terms of challenge to track based titles.

Shameless Dirt Rally plugs:

 

[jm79]

I've only had a few quick goes on AC around a friends house, what I've seen of it so far is very, very impressive (above everything covered so far in terms of physics), to the point I have it on pre-order for PS4 and am eagerly awaiting it.

Dirt Rally is a challenge, but its well enough balanced that I find you are able to enjoy it even when you are not winning, but it certainly quite different in terms of challenge to track based titles.

Yeah, I have AC on pre-order too (hope it doesn't suffer from controller non-optimisation like PCars did)
I don't really understand how it's created by such a small team, it looks super promising.

edit: nice Dirt Rally vids! 👍

 

[Brend]

DiRT Rally feels like the most 'natural' racing game on PS4 regardless of the conditions. It's a beautifully put together game that has the atmospheric feel of a rally down to a tee. It's minimalistic in the best possible way, that being said the damage leaves a bit to be desired and the vibration feedback is a bit woeful on controller.

I think that's an area GT excels in, haptic feedback.

 

[Nato_777]

Yeah, I have AC on pre-order too (hope it doesn't suffer from controller non-optimisation like PCars did)
I don't really understand how it's created by such a small team, it looks super promising.

edit: nice Dirt Rally vids! 👍

AC on PC plays a million times better with a DS4 than pCARS so expect it to be the same on PS4.

 

[Spagetti69]

So this game not only lacks a competent one player game but now variable weather and changing time of day transitions are out as well? Is this a PS2 game?

Aside from the one player content of which there's no excuse it's becoming apparent to me that the implementation of VR could be the reason features are dropped.

That being said I see no reason that it could be an option for non VR users to have time of day and weather. Probably wouldn't be a good PR move for PSVR to say you have to run a dumbed down version to wear the headset.

I am only guessing though but features running on PS 3 being dropped for PS 4 allude to that.

 

[jm79]

AC on PC plays a million times better with a DS4 than pCARS so expect it to be the same on PS4.

Ah, that's really good news - very happy about the pre-order now...

I just hope it doesn't get delayed again

 

[Imari]

AC on PC plays a million times better with a DS4 than pCARS so expect it to be the same on PS4.

Yeah, I gave AC a go with a DS3 last night. It was a bit twitchy with stock settings but pretty playable, a couple tweaks got it pretty close to a GT game (although you still have to deal with the increased suspension wobble and more sensitive throttle/brakes).

It should be fine.

 

[Animera]

You do know that AC also doesn't have dynamic weather / time of day?

 

[jm79]

@Scaff what is that open, wet track on your 1st DR vid? Is that Wales? ...looks incredible.
Never seen such pretty grey skies

You do know that AC also doesn't have dynamic weather / time of day?

I guess with such a small team and tiny budget, it's a lot more forgiveable...

 

[Nato_777]

I'll take static weather and have gorgeous visuals over dynamic weather and so so visuals but I still would have preferred time transitions though.
Dynamic weather on GT6 was good and all but visually it was pretty bad really - track still looked dry, no reflections, pretty bad spray effects.
Since GTS is going for quality visuals over dynamics then it had better blow our socks off visually.

 

[Spagetti69]

Neither did early GT games? What are you trying to say?

Edit forgot to quote lol.

Never mind.

 

[Scaff]

@Scaff what is that open, wet track on your 1st DR vid? Is that Wales? ...looks incredible.
Never seen such pretty grey skies

Yep its Wales, the spectator area at the end of the Sweet Lamb stage.

DR is insanely atmospheric to play, particularly in cockpit view with the HUD all turned off and running longer (up to 16k) stages.

 

[PzR Slim]

Aside from the one player content of which there's no excuse it's becoming apparent to me that the implementation of VR could be the reason features are dropped.

That being said I see no reason that it could be an option for non VR users to have time of day and weather. Probably wouldn't be a good PR move for PSVR to say you have to run a dumbed down version to wear the headset.

I am only guessing though but features running on PS 3 being dropped for PS 4 allude to that.

Coming to the same conclusion. And if it is the case then the trade off to get VR working just isn't worth it in my opinion.

 

[Toblakai99]

I'll take static weather and have gorgeous visuals over dynamic weather and so so visuals but I still would have preferred time transitions though.
Dynamic weather on GT6 was good and all but visually it was pretty bad really - track still looked dry, no reflections, pretty bad spray effects.
Since GTS is going for quality visuals over dynamics then it had better blow our socks off visually.

I agree once the removed the dynamic time and weather there is no more excuses they also need to be locked 60.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

That's the problem, gamers who used arcade in a new way to describe or categorize games to their liking that I keep seeing more recently / around PS3 generation. Arcade was never meant to describe just one kind of racing games. People sometimes used the word arcade to describe how games are designed or played in similar style or manner as arcade games ( coin op ) which puts more focus on simple gameplay flow and fun, it's not about the physics at all.

I really don't see the problem here. Arcade (coin op) games are usually pretty simple in the physics. When home consoles become more popular than going to arcades, naturally we see some of these games come to our living room. They still retain the simple physics and fun gameplay, so even though they are not physically a coin op game, they are still "Arcade".

Conversely you can set up GT with a steering wheel and a pod and it will look like an arcade (coin op) cabinet, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a simulator, and not arcade, even though the physical medium looks like arcade.

In summary:
Arcade - simple gameplay & physics (can be coin op or home console)
Simulator - complex gameplay & physics (also can be presented as a cabinet (more commonly called "rigs") or home console)

You have no idea how LSD works or how to sense them while driving if you feel low initial/preload is more lock. Wonder why most tuners stick with low initial, its not because of more lock, but because it's closer to open and easier to manage.

Here is a simple explanation from Pcars made by @dyr_gl that applies to GT5/6 and other games that has similar type LSD simulated :

Watch from 11:30 point for LSD preload, easy to digest.


And read the whole page, including quotes in the posts :

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...8-totw-ruf-rgt-lsd-vettec6zr1.294814/page-143

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-lsd-vettec6zr1.294814/page-143#post-11254977

The discussion on LSD and damper on page 142 ( previous page ) may help you understand more about GT6 suspension and LSD tuning/physics.

You know, I haven't played GT6 regularly in about a year now, and I don't think I will do much driving between now and GTS release, so excuse if my memories are sketchy. I think you're right though. I just realized why I thought Initial Low is more lock and it's got to do with the way I drive. My bad.

Basically my baseline LSD settings for most cars is 10/10/10. Need more traction on power? Raise Accel. Need more stability under brakes? Raise Decel. Car seems too twitchy when off throttle? Raise Initial.

The problem starts when I began drifting. I initiate my drifts using weight transfer off-throttle mostly (Scandinavian flicks), because I can't use the handbrake as a button. So for me 5/60/5 is the easiest for drifting. I thought it's because I'm getting more on-power wheelspin earlier (hence my thinking of low Initial = more lock), but it's truly because I can set up the car sideways earlier and get on power earlier (correct thinking of low Initial = less lock).

I just read the rFactor manual and their mantra is basically: low Initial locks late & hard, high Initial locks early & soft. I think that's a pretty good way of summarising it.

Still, I wish PD would use 0-100% for Accel/Decel and real life numbers for Preload. 5-60 is just such a random range Same thing with suspension (unitless damper and ARB) and downforce (kg? N? degree?).

 

[Tired Tyres]

You do know that AC also doesn't have dynamic weather / time of day?

Nope. Kunos made it clear that wasn't going to happen since before early access. That's why I don't mind it in AC whereas the lack of these things in GTS bothers me a lot.

 

[eisento]

Old?

 

[Normalaatsra]

These are really cool, but what does this museum card have to do with cars?

They are used to give the viewer a reference of the time period associated with the automotive history slide shown before it. It almost works like an 'On This Day in History' feature, but is focused about explaining the era in which the motorsport history lesson is subject to.

 

[PzR Slim]

So little info from the 24Hr race so far. Anyone know if any info is going to be coming out of there?

 

[jm79]

Old?

that 4-way battle at the end there, with the Japanese drivers... Amazing stuff...

 

[LeGeNd-1]

That ending reminds me of this:



Also, I vote "Greer on the grass" as quote of the year

 

[jm79]

That ending reminds me of this:



Also, I vote "Greer on the grass" as quote of the year

Ha! I remember watching the official footage of this - total TV director fail on that last corner, focusing on the obvious winner instead of a 3-way battle for third. Now I finally know how it went down!

Cheers @LeGeNd-1

 

[ArR29]

GT Sport with Driveclub sound engine.
Why PD didn't hire Evolution sound engineers? -_-

 

[ron86]

GT Sport with Driveclub sound engine.
Why PD didn't hire Evolution sound engineers? -_-

I honestly dont understand what everyone likes about DC sounds. I mean i have DC and it looks great, but it doesnt sound good to me

 

[Toysuprahot]

GT Sport with Driveclub sound engine.
Why PD didn't hire Evolution sound engineers? -_-

I prefer GTS's sounds

 

[GranTurismo guy]

I honestly dont understand what everyone likes about DC sounds. I mean i have DC and it looks great, but it doesnt sound good to me

This. The accuracy of the note itself is always fantastic, but the overall sound is synth-y, especially those gear changes, and there is a 'whooshy' sound in there too (this is definitely not the wind noise). There is also a lack of clarity to it, like it's a recording you are hearing and you're not actually there. It just isn't that great to me.

 

[ron86]

This. The accuracy of the note itself is always fantastic, but the overall sound is synth-y, especially those gear changes, and there is a 'whooshy' sound in there too (this is definitely not the wind noise). It just isn't that great to me.

I think you are the one who said it sounds "strangely muffled" - i think that pretty much describes it.