Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[SlipZtrEm]

You think that a company like Polyphony with huge budget, that can take how physics engineers want, it is not able to make a simulator that can match a game of few modders like kunos... are you kidding me?

Polyphony has had one of the largest budgets in the genre for most of their existence. As good as Gran Turismo is, it's never really at at the top of the pile in terms of physics: GPL came out the same year as the first GT, remember.

I don't think PD is particularly interested in having the absolute most in-depth physics engine. They seem to want to strike a balance between approachability and accuracy, and that hard-to-define "rightness" you feel when you drive a car in game. Personally, I don't see that as a bad thing: it's a game after all, and there's more to it than simply physics.

So this said a real racing driver(Matias Henkola)about GT Sport
"Drove the BMW M6 GT3 back to back IRL and on Gran Turismo Sport several times during the N24. @takaito1983 or "The Wizard" as we like to call him, did the setup for the real car and then transfered the setup in to the game. The difference in laptimes was usully within 2 seconds between real life and the simulation (on a lap that takes over 8 minutes). When the beta version is this good, you know the final product will be mega"

Hypothetically then, if I were to post a time around the real Laguna Seca, and matched it in-game in GT2... would that make it more realistic?

Lap times, on their own, are not great signifiers of realism. You can also find quotes from various racing drivers about a whole bunch of games and their realism: PCARS, GT, Forza, AC, iRacing, etc etc.

Otherwise, we can expect to see a new trailer before next Wednesday

Are you 99% sure? You were about us getting the beta, too...

 

[another_jakhole]

Personally, I don't see that as a bad thing: it's a game after all, and there's more to it than simply physics.


Are you 99% sure? You were about us getting the beta, too...

The beta... WHY!!!!! would Kaz mention such a thing knowing the repercussions. And if the physics aren't a big deal, would that mean you're expecting greater advancements in FFB in comparison to the progress they make with the physics? I don't think there's much being explained over this which why I'm raising the question.

 

[Pillo-san]

Seriously? Im explaining that in the same comment that you quoted.



To add that, Assetto is the simulator used by Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini; Assetto is a title with 5 years and even before that Kunos had expierence making simulators; Kunos is a company that makes simulation software that also makes games; they have laser scaned tracks.

Gran Turismo Sport has fake cars, fake balance of performance, it is a game that and the previous titles have less hardcore physics than Project Cars. The people that played the first builds said that it was very similar to GT6. Now there is a bit of improvement and do yo really think that a company that never made simulators, in 3 months are going to be at the level of Kunos?

Man, AC is still a game, there are at least dozen of instances where I go, wtf was that, that is so stoooopid. AC feels nice and all but after a while you notice that it is a game after all. AC= Dried out tires from 80s that someone has mounted on your rims. Not as realistic as fanbois make it out to be.

A game is a game with its strong and low points.
Lets hope Kaz delivers on the promise that a realistic game does not need to be hard to drive.

 

[Aphelion]

Hate to break it to everyone, but you may find that 'realistic physics' might be more subjective than you think.

 

[driver_34_]

Man, AC is still a game, there are at least dozen of instances where I go, wtf was that, that is so stoooopid. AC feels nice and all but after a while you notice that it is a game after all. AC= Dried out tires from 80s that someone has mounted on your rims. Not as realistic as fanbois make it out to be.

A game is a game with its strong and low points.
Lets hope Kaz delivers on the promise that a realistic game do not need to be hard to drive.

The strange thing is that many of them aren't even interested with assetto corsa, they just try so hard to make look gt like arcade.
On other hand they try to defend forza when you try to make them notice that gt in terms of physics it is far ahead.
Seems strange...

 

[freedom1104]

At 13mins and 7 secs
John Sabol : " First are the graphics, GTS right now is kinda interesting, sometimes it looks really really good , and other time not so much.Overall the graphic when driving look really good, interior looks good, and everything you seeing outside the environment, other cars, overall looks pretty crisp. But for some reason, when you go to the Replay TV Camera, the car all suddenly don’t have anti aliasing going on at all, with a lot of sharp line and jagginess on edges of the car. The environment , the track, the grass the tree, don’t have it nearly as much, and part of that is due to the use of motion blur that help to cover some of that up. For some reason right now the cars just don’t look great from certain camera and angle."

Definitely there is a difference between gameplay and replay. i dont know why people keep saying it over and over again that gameplay and replay are the same and based on what? A blurred off-screen shot, seriously? is this where we are going? i would rather trust john@isrtv on this because he played in " IN PERSON" , not basing on off-screen shot. The most important part is his job nature, he played literally everything available on the market and i i would take his opinion to be more objective than some of the biased fans here.


Last, "sim-like" and "pure-sim" are different, it maybe close, but it isnt the same. But GTS is heading toward a good direction i and loved that.

Assetto Corsa has no simulation value. Cars are contractually buffed and vehicle assets are shined-up mods originally made by the community with no measure of accuracy. lol

And if the cars in AC are just "contractually buffed and vehicle assets are shined-up mods originally made by the community with no measure of accuracy", why would they do a test drive event by the track? pretty stupid right?

 

[SlimCharles]

The strange thing is that many of them aren't even interested with assetto corsa, they just try so hard to make look gt like arcade.
On other hand they try to defend forza when you try to make them notice that gt in terms of physics it is far ahead.
Seems strange...

Nobody here in the last 5 pages is neither trying to make look GT as an arcade or talking about Forza. Dont stereotype people.

Man, AC is still a game, there are at least dozen of instances where I go, wtf was that, that is so stoooopid. AC feels nice and all but after a while you notice that it is a game after all. AC= Dried out tires from 80s that someone has mounted on your rims. Not as realistic as fanbois make it out to be.

A game is a game with its strong and low points.
Lets hope Kaz delivers on the promise that a realistic game does not need to be hard to drive.

AC is a game. A game that people like Fernando Alonso, Sebastian Vettel or Kimi Raikkonen use to train themshelves.

Edit:

About the replay thing, in the video of digital foundry that somebody posted they say the replay uses better graphics and filters. Thats why the replay performs at 30 fps.

 

[freedom1104]

Kaz : " Gran Turismo Sport is not marketed as being a hardcore driving simulator, GT Sport should instead be a game for all kinds of drivers, and should give all interested players opportunities to express themself."

source: http://www.gamereactor.eu/news/416863/Yamauchi+Gran+Turismo+Sport+is+no+hardcore+driving+simulator/

2nd source in case some people doubted

本质上来说我们的目标不是创造出一个硬核的驾驶模拟器

Our Aim was never to create a hardcore driving simulator.

source:
http://www.vgtime.com/article/11695355.jhtml

About the replay thing, in the video of digital foundry that somebody posted they say the replay uses better graphics and filters. Thats why the replay performs at 30 fps.

Obviously some of them dont patronize GT6 forum, there are threads there discussing how the LOD ( level of details) differ during in-game and replay and i dont suppose they pay attention to that before they make up those statement about in-game and replay are same.

 

[Pillo-san]

AC is a game. A game that people like Fernando Alonso, Sebastian Vettel or Kimi Raikkonen use to train themshelves.

You mean that they are playing on AC on their spare time? Because otherwise you think that they themselves get to choose which engine they get to train on with their sims? They probably only do it to remember/learn the track layout and not because of how realistic that is, because it does not take long before you can point out the faults with the physics.

And by the way, lots and lots of drivers are calling "sims" for toys, and are laughing about the level they are on right now.

 

[LM7325]

My '79 Regal had bad physics. Terrible FFB, input lag etc... Looking back its hard to believe GNX was built off those bones.

To me, a good handling model feels real. I really don't care if it is 100% perfect. As long as the handling is rooted in reality with realistic cornering speeds I have little to complain about.

As far as completion freak outs go, I think they basically started over last year. GT7 was scuttled early 2015, GTS had it's keel laid at that point. I may have that all wrong, but something drastic happened last year for sure.

 

[driver_34_]

You mean that they are playing on AC on their spare time? Because otherwise you think that they themselves get to choose which engine they get to train on with their sims? They probably only do it to remember/learn the track layout and not because of how realistic that is, because it does not take long before you can point out the faults with the physics at all.

Exactly
https://www.gtplanet.net/lewis-hami...ter-than-computer-games-for-learning-a-track/

 

[Johnnypenso]

delete

 

[SlimCharles]

Kaz : " Gran Turismo Sport is not marketed as being a hardcore driving simulator, GT Sport should instead be a game for all kinds of drivers, and should give all interested players opportunities to express themself."

End to the topic.

You mean that they are playing on AC on their spare time? Because otherwise you think that they themselves get to choose which engine they get to train on with their sims? Probably they only do it to remember/learn the track layout and not because of how realistic that is, because it does not take long before you can point out the faults with the physics at all.

No, Ferrari simulator is AC pro. That is what I was saying. And of course is better to train in real life. Thats why FIA limits the time to train in track, and not the time to train in simulators. But it is very very similar. I dont say it, that says another racing driver. This one is a rally driver.

http://www.redbull.com/uk/en/games/stories/1331773737164/sebastien-loeb-rally-evo-interview

"in Formula One you have maybe 15-20 tracks which you have to model, and you can make it really precise and then you can work on it"

F1 pilots train with simulators lots and lots of hours.

 

[Pillo-san]

End to the topic.



No, Ferrari simulator is AC pro. That is what I was saying. And of course is better to train in real life. Thats why FIA limits the time to train in track, and not the time to train in simulators. But it is very very similar. I dont say it, that says another racing driver. This one is a rally driver.

http://www.redbull.com/uk/en/games/stories/1331773737164/sebastien-loeb-rally-evo-interview

"in Formula One you have maybe 15-20 tracks which you have to model, and you can make it really precise and then you can work on it"

F1 pilots train with simulators lots and lots of hours.

So, it still is for the learning the track and memorising where the breakpoints and stuff like that are.

I do not need to have a source as I myself often meet up with real race drivers and bikers. And games often do get being discussed. Even though some like sim games they all say that there is much to improve. Learn a track you never visited or just duke it out when being invited to drink/grill party is all that games are good for right now.

I personally think we need way more powerful hardware to simulate a real drive/race experience.

 

[Godarm]

Kaz : " Gran Turismo Sport is not marketed as being a hardcore driving simulator, GT Sport should instead be a game for all kinds of drivers"

All along i thought it was the opposite for each highlighted

in addition it should be - Gran Turismo is not marketed as being a hardcore driving simulator, GT should instead be a game for all kinds of drivers

should give all interested players opportunities to express themself

this i agree

 

[Tornado]

On other hand they try to defend forza when you try to make them notice that gt in terms of physics it is far ahead.
Seems strange...

I'm sure how certain people repeatedly bring it up as a non sequitur, with their own opinions based on nothing more than "I've seen a couple videos on YouTube", has nothing to do with it.

 

[driver_34_]

End to the topic..

Yes maybe is not a hardocore sim, because not have all the settings that you may have in an hardcore one,but that doesn't change the fact that gt physics are very good to simulate car dynamics.



Edit: Better to see the ferrari video with a initial d song because the sound engine isn't very good

I'm sure how certain people repeatedly bring it up as a non sequitur, with their own opinions based on nothing more than "I've seen a couple videos on YouTube", has nothing to do with it.

What?
I don't think if we make a comparison between driveclub and gt6, you need to try driveclub to see if is a simulator or not, you can deduce only by eyes watching a replay, same with forza, you can clearly look that isn't at all at gt levels.

 

[Ameer67]

I swear this thread goes in circles:

- Forza vs GT
- AC vs GT
- GT Sport physics
- PS4 vs PS4 Neo
- Replay vs gameplay graphics
- And more!

 

[Aphelion]

I swear this thread goes in circles:

- Forza vs GT
- AC vs GT
- GT Sport physics
- PS4 vs PS4 Neo
- Replay vs gameplay graphics
- Everyone simultaneously arguing about unrelated topics
- Moderator intervention
- someone is banned
- everyone learns from experience
- no-one actually learns from experience

Fixed.

 

[Tornado]

What?

It's pretty straightforward, actually: Saying that the physics of a game (any game) are obviously inferior to another game because you watched a video on YouTube doesn't prove anything other than how foolish you are. Going the extra mile and telling people who have actually played the game you're trying to disparage that they are wrong because you watched a YouTube video, and doing so without any prior mention in the discussion about the other game to justify bringing it up in the first place, propels you to an entirely different level of cluelessness.



Though you said it best yourself, honestly:

I donn't know how to explain physics because i'm not a physicist

 

[Godarm]

- Everyone simultaneously arguing about unrelated topics
- Moderator intervention
- someone is banned

Seriously, lets hope it doesn't happen again

Edit: and it is almost going to happen again for the 3rd point. Facepalm

 

[driver_34_]

It's pretty straightforward, actually: Saying that the physics of a game (any game) are obviously inferior to another game because you watched a video on YouTube doesn't prove anything other than how foolish you are. Going the extra mile and telling people who have actually played the game you're trying to disparage that they are wrong because you watched a YouTube video, and doing so without any prior mention in the discussion about the other game to justify bringing it up in the first place, propels you to an entirely different level of cluelessness.



Though you said it best yourself, honestly:

You can play all the racing game of the world, but if forza replay looks to you more realistic,i think you have a distorted vision of reality,i can't see other explanation honestly.

 

[RACECAR]

Was playing Rocket League again tonight and realised how similar it is in concept to what GTS is trying to do. That's gonna sound nuts so let me explain.

The gameplay of Rocket League is incredibly simple and limited. It's a soccer field, you have a rocket car, you try and score goals. There's a lot of room for nuance and skill with the controls, but they're not exactly complicated. The cars look different but they're basically the same. There's a handful different fields not counting the labs ones.

But it's so polished and the gameplay is so refined that you can spend hours trying to get better. The feeling I get from dribbling the ball over someone, bouncing it off the wall and boosting to smash it into the goal is incredible. Variety be damned, the gameplay is so engaging that it just doesn't matter.

In addition, there are casual modes, ranked modes, and fun modes (yay, basketball!). There's a single player, and some pretty good training modes. Collecting hats and aerials is a cute addition for the pack rats.

I feel like this could all be done with a racing game instead of soccer cars. The concept of a racing game is very simple. The controls are few with a lot of room for skill and nuance. With classes a lot of the cars are basically interchangeable. And I know when you nail a hot lap at a key time or pull an amazing overtake it's that same feeling of exhilaration.

Can Polyphony pull off an experience that gives the same rewarding feelings as Rocket League and be as simple and addictive to play?

For what it's worth, I think Rocket League nails the 7 to 77 gameplay. Anyone can play, but only the best can be great. The fun is trying to get there, and the odd moment when you get totally lucky and pull an amazing move out of your backside.

You know what, that's actually a good way to look at it.

Also, thanks for rubbing it in my face how bad I'm missing out on Rocket League

Here a real racing driver saying Assetto is the best simulator. But hey, i know more and "Assetto Corsa has no simulation value".

Here is Kris Meeke saying Dirt 3 is a realistic rally game

While we're are it:




Speaking of GT (and someone bringing up Forza for some reason), the ultimate example of a point I'm trying to make:






And of course the ultimate bowl of irony, Courtesy of EA (PCAR fans, you might recognize some faces ):



"I think its one thing for a game producer to put into a game what they think is realistic. For us, that's unacceptable. We're gonna use real racing drivers to tell us 'This is what its like to drive a car' "

So edgy.

Seriously, how many times have we been sold a similar line?

Point: Racing drivers do this all the time. In no way does it at all mean or make THAT game any more realistic. As much as I like Dale Jr, Find Tanner Foust a cool dude or anyone else, I'm at the point where I'm not taking any of those claims as gospel. Just like the politicians in office and the awful actors in those late night infomercials, Money can make people say Anything

 

[freedom1104]

The only thing i know is, If you havent even tried something that had been released in person, and just judge a game based on its video, you had no rights to criticize anything about it and compared it with the thing you taken a fancy on. That is super biased.

If you dint even make the effort to try something, who are you to judge that thing ? unless you played and you dont like it and its ok. That is purely YOURS opinion.

Truth to be told, i had never played any Forza before, i had always played GT but i dont discredit Forza. Why? Because i never tried it before.

Did you see professional game journalist discredited one specific game to promote the game he taken fancy of?
As for the F40 one, i wouldnt go in-depth with GT6 turbo's physics. That doesnt belongs here. if you gonna discuss about GT6 versus anything else. The door is right beside there, you can go into gt6 forum and discuss it all day long.

 

[driver_34_]

The only thing i know is, If you havent even tried something that had been released in person, and just judge a game based on its video, you had no rights no to criticize anything about it and compared it with the thing you taken a fancy on. That is super biased.

If you dint even make the effort to try something, who are you to judge that thing ? unless you played and you dont like it and its ok. That is purely YOURS opinion.

Did you see professional game journalist discredited one specific game to promote the game he taken fancy of?
As for the F40 one, i wouldnt go in-depth with GT6 turbo's physics. That doesnt belongs here. if you gonna discuss about GT6 versus anything else. The door is right beside there, you can go into gt6 forum and discuss it all day long.

A ok the turbo physics.... tell me honestly wich video seems to you more realistic.
And In forza obviously you don't notice anything wrong right?

 

[freedom1104]

A ok the turbo physics.... tell me honestly wich video seems to you more realistic.
And In forza obviously you don't notice anything wrong right?

Why and how would i comment on something that i haven't tried or played? Why would i stomp down to be a biased person ? Maybe you should tell me why.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

A ok the turbo physics.... tell me honestly wich video seems to you more realistic.
And In forza obviously you don't notice anything wrong right?

I recognize English may not be your native language, so I'll ask this clearly: what part of the below post did you not understand?

Place to discuss FM6 physics engine:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/board/forza-motorsport-6.383/

Place to discuss AC graphics:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/board/assetto-corsa.315/

@driver_34_ - head to either of these if you wish to discuss their respective features further. Though don't expect anybody to take you seriously in the former, if you haven't even played the game.

If you wish to discuss the physics of FM6 — which is a very different discussion than discussing how the replays look — do it over in the appropriate section. You've been told once to stop drawing the thread off-topic: the next warning will come with infraction points.

 

[driver_34_]

I recognize English may not be your native language, so I'll ask this clearly: what part of the below post did you not understand?



If you wish to discuss the physics of FM6 — which is a very different discussion than discussing how the replays look — do it over in the appropriate section. You've been told once to stop drawing the thread off-topic: the next warning will come with infraction points.

Why you don't advertise also the people that posts assetto corsa videos to show physics,it is not the same?

 

[FoRiZon]

FYI GTPlanet isnt only consists of GTSport threads. Why dont explore for yourself instead?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Why you don't advertise also the people that posts assetto corsa videos to show physics,it is not the same?

Worry about your own posting habits, let us worry about others.

You've attempted, on numerous occasions, to turn this into a discussion on Forza's physics (despite, you know, not actually having any experience with them). That is not the purpose of this thread.

This isn't up for discussion.