Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[GTPorsche]

In what other area would 42% of the way through something be considered early?

When you divide something by early and late with nothing in-between.

 

[PzR Slim]

When you divide something by early and late with nothing in-between.

No. That would be first half and second half.

 

[GTPorsche]

No. That would be first half and second half.

Early year and late year. Do you want to continue arguing semantics or are you done?

 

[chzsln485]

When you divide something by early and late with nothing in-between.

That is a good point, actually. Maybe "early 2016" means "the earlier half of the year", as opposed to a "later half". That might explain the PS official blog's time frame of "spring 2016", because the whole release of the beta might be aimed more towards April/May time, which would still come into an "early half" of the year.

 

[Samus]

Early year and late year. Do you want to continue arguing semantics or are you done?

What he means is what I was getting at, how do you end up with Jan - May as early? If you were doing early year and late year that would be Jan - Jun & Jul - Dec. I don't know where people are getting Jan - May from.

 

[Tornado]

When you divide something by early and late with nothing in-between.

I don't know how to break this to you, since I know you've already dictated the matter to be closed, but 42% + 42% ≠ 100%

 

[rono_thomas]

I think the point was anything less than or equal to 50% through something is = to early and anything greater than or equal to 50% through something is = to late.

Although something cant be early and late, so maybe an on time option is required to satisfy the math and words thus leading to

Less than or equal to 49% = early
50% = on time
Greater than or equal to 51% = late.

So what came first the chicken or the egg, and had GTSport been released by that point?

 

[Chikane_GTR]

How mad would you guys be if PD came out and announced that the Beta is delayed till Fall

Spoiler: ...

Don't hurt me

 

[shoemaker]

When PD say it will be early 2016...I will look forward to Christmas.

 

[JTB10000]

Faulty logic on my part. It would be better separated into early, mid, and late with early as Jan - Apr, mid as May - Aug, and late as Sep - Dec or, as Samus said, early as Jan - Jun and late as July - Dec.

 

[queleuleu]

I think some here read too far into the "early". Jordan said that the annoucement was a bit early, it seems he is right. But in my opinion, Sony should understand the golden era of hype and excitement for GT is over for most of the people.

Edit : Maybe I was wrong

 

[CSLACR]

Early year and late year. Do you want to continue arguing semantics or are you done?

I don't see much here that implies halfway through means early.
Not even the leeway to divide something as either early or late, it almost seems to believe early is well before 50 percent.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/early

 

[Samus]

This really is "the coming weeks" all over again.

Please PD, give us something else to talk about.

 

[dipsetab]

I think some here read too far into the "early". Jordan said that the annoucement was a bit early, it seems he is right. But in my opinion, Sony should understand the golden era of hype and excitement for GT is over for most of the people.

Edit : Maybe I was wrong

i have a strong feeling we will hear info very soon

 

[DingoDile]

How mad would you guys be if PD came out and announced that the Beta is delayed till Fall

Spoiler: ...

Don't hurt me

It's PD, so we are prepared for things like this!

 

[Imari]

Again this is what early means to you, but put yourself in PD's shoes, a little difficult who knows how they think or operate, so what do you have to go by, you have their track record of what they will do and when they will do it.

Do you still honestly believe that when PD write "early" that it couldn't be May, or that it couldn't mean anything after the first three months? Do you honestly believe that they have this sort of definitive date and they think the best thing to do would be to announce as it early 2016??

Let me take us a little more into the mind of what Polyphony think. Because Polyphony didn't write those English pages, someone translated them from the Japanese. So let's take a look at the source.

The official gran-turismo.com site and the Playstation blog both use exactly the same phrase in Japanese, 初旬. I've never seen it used with years before, it's usually used with months but in that situation it denotes the first third (or ten days in the case of a month). It's part of a natural system of dividing into thirds, and there's no real way to interpret it as half at all. That would be written completely differently.

By the Japanese text, the intention would be for the beta to start somewhere from January to April. May would be beyond what they've written. This is not vague, this is simply a poor English translation.

 

[Samus]

Let me take us a little more into the mind of what Polyphony think. Because Polyphony didn't write those English pages, someone translated them from the Japanese. So let's take a look at the source.

The official gran-turismo.com site and the Playstation blog both use exactly the same phrase in Japanese, 初旬. I've never seen it used with years before, it's usually used with months but in that situation it denotes the first third (or ten days in the case of a month). It's part of a natural system of dividing into thirds, and there's no real way to interpret it as half at all. That would be written completely differently.

By the Japanese text, the intention would be for the beta to start somewhere from January to April. May would be beyond what they've written. This is not vague, this is simply a poor English translation.

A shame you hadn't looked that up a fortnight ago, we'd have had even less to pointlessly discuss in this thread.

Obviously your human translation is more accurate but interestingly Google translates that as 'Beginning' and Microsoft/Bing translates it to 'Early'. The Google translation is seemingly more accurate then, given that beginning is far less ambiguous than early.

But yeah, thanks for the clarification. April 30th deadline it is.

 

[Imari]

Obviously your human translation is more accurate but interestingly Google translates that as 'Beginning' and Microsoft/Bing translates it to 'Early'. The Google translation is seemingly more accurate then, given that beginning is far less ambiguous than early.

The problem is that English doesn't really have a similar three stage division system. We have beginning/middle/end but that's far less clear cut and can as many in this thread have noted be used in a two stage beginning/end system.

Similarly, early/late are generally a two stage but can easily be three with early/mid/late.

Recognising these differences in nuance in language is what makes technical translation* a real pain in the balls. Both Google and Bing are correct, but both can also be misinterpreted. I don't think there's a simple direct translation to English without being specific and saying Jan-Apr, which is kind of clunky.

*I should note that I'm not that guy. I have basic conversational Japanese and I can use a dictionary and ask native Japanese people when I get stuck. That's about my limit. I have real respect for people who can translate manuals and legal documents accurately. It's incredibly difficult.

A shame you hadn't looked that up a fortnight ago, we'd have had even less to pointlessly discuss in this thread.

To be honest, it only occurred to me this morning when I woke up to another two pages of the same discussion and remembered that this isn't the first time when the English has been vague and the Japanese really wasn't (ah, monthly track DLC, you were but a pipe dream).

But yeah, probably best that it took me this long. Otherwise we'd all be arguing about how to arrange the deck chairs on the hillside at Laguna Seca.

 

[dipsetab]

The problem is that English doesn't really have a similar three stage division system. We have beginning/middle/end but that's far less clear cut and can as many in this thread have noted be used in a two stage beginning/end system.

Similarly, early/late are generally a two stage but can easily be three with early/mid/late.

Recognising these differences in nuance in language is what makes technical translation* a real pain in the balls. Both Google and Bing are correct, but both can also be misinterpreted. I don't think there's a simple direct translation to English without being specific and saying Jan-Apr, which is kind of clunky.

*I should note that I'm not that guy. I have basic conversational Japanese and I can use a dictionary and ask native Japanese people when I get stuck. That's about my limit. I have real respect for people who can translate manuals and legal documents accurately. It's incredibly difficult.



To be honest, it only occurred to me this morning when I woke up to another two pages of the same discussion and remembered that this isn't the first time when the English has been vague and the Japanese really wasn't (ah, monthly track DLC, you were but a pipe dream).

But yeah, probably best that it took me this long. Otherwise we'd all be arguing about how to arrange the deck chairs on the hillside at Laguna Seca.

lmao true

 

[Samus]

The problem is that English doesn't really have a similar three stage division system. We have beginning/middle/end but that's far less clear cut and can as many in this thread have noted be used in a two stage beginning/end system.

Similarly, early/late are generally a two stage but can easily be three with early/mid/late.

Recognising these differences in nuance in language is what makes technical translation* a real pain in the balls. Both Google and Bing are correct, but both can also be misinterpreted. I don't think there's a simple direct translation to English without being specific and saying Jan-Apr, which is kind of clunky.

*I should note that I'm not that guy. I have basic conversational Japanese and I can use a dictionary and ask native Japanese people when I get stuck. That's about my limit. I have real respect for people who can translate manuals and legal documents accurately. It's incredibly difficult.

Yeah I mean I know next to nothing about the Japanese language but I do know that direct, literal translations are rarely accurate for any translation because of the nuances of each language, particularly the Japanese. That's why automatic translations usually make no sense, because they literally translate each word rather than understanding the context of previous or following characters, or the overall context.

English is just as tricky though really. In a general context you can have a beginning and end with no middle but in the context of a year I don't think anyone really negates use of a middle. I can't think that many would consider June the beginning of the year.

Ah, language. It's a tricky beast.

 

[cutmeamango]

Went check with my bud from Japan and he said it just means early/beginning of a time without any precision and at best can indicate the first season (group of months). That happens to be spring. Carry on.

 

[Samus]

Went check with my bud from Japan and he said it just means early/beginning of a time without any precision and at best can indicate the first season (group of months). That happens to be spring. Carry on.

Imari has long proven his knowledge of the Japanese language here translating entire articles among other things. You supposedly have a 'bud' in Japan that you've conveniently just been able to ask.

I think I know who I'll believe.

Oh and the "first group of months" in a calendar year are not Spring months. Unless you're now going to tell me PD meant the meteorological year when they stated 2016. Following your earlier claim they may have meant the fiscal year.

 

[cutmeamango]

Imari has long proven his knowledge of the Japanese language here translating entire articles among other things. You supposedly have a 'bud' in Japan that you've conveniently just been able to ask.

I think I know who I'll believe.

Oh and the "first group of months" in a calendar year are not Spring months. Unless you're now going to tell me PD meant the meteorological year when they stated 2016. Following your earlier claim they may have meant the fiscal year.

That's cool, you are free to believe whatever and whoever you want. There are probably japanese members in this forum that can confirm it.

And a season is a group of months.
Ah, language. It's a tricky beast.

 

[GTPorsche]

Spring still doesn't start on January 1st.

 

[Samus]

And a season is a group of months.

Yes but they overlap calendar years. The first season of the calendar year is winter, carrying over from the previous calendar year. PD list the calendar year 2016. The beginning months of the calendar year are January, February, March and April (or not, depending how you count them.)

 

[cutmeamango]

Spring still doesn't start on January 1st.

Yes but they overlap calendar years. The first season of the calendar year is winter, carrying over from the previous calendar year. PD list the calendar year 2016.

"The first season" refers to spring (in the north hemisphere), because of exactly what you said, winter carries over from the last year. It's not something crazy to grasp.

Now I'm part of the void.

 

[GTPorsche]

The first and last season of the year is winter due to the way the seasons fall.

 

[Samus]

"The first season" refers to spring (in the north hemisphere), because of exactly what you said, winter carries over from the last year. It's not something crazy to grasp.

Now I'm part of the void.

Yes, the first season of the meteorological year. PD haven't stated the beta is coming at the beginning of the meteorological year, they've stated the beginning of the calendar year which guess what, starts on January 1st not the first day of spring.

I'm not continuing this pointless argument any further. As far as I'm concerned Imari has drawn a line under it, the beta is due in the beginning months of 2016, January to April.

 

[Imari]

Went check with my bud from Japan and he said it just means early/beginning of a time without any precision and at best can indicate the first season (group of months). That happens to be spring. Carry on.

You're missing a whole lot of interpretation that your bud from Japan would have passed on if you'd asked him the right questions.

Yes, 初 means "first" or "beginning" and yes, 旬 can mean season (sort of, in a general sense that is not the same as the meteorological sense, it's more like fishing season as a generic period of time). But it also means ten days, because it's usually used for dividing months into groups of ten days. As I said before, this is where I'm used to coming across it. Using it with years is odd as far as I'm aware, but the three part division system stands. 初、中、下 (or 上、中、下 as it's often used) is a system of thirds.

Japanese has words for the meteorological seasons, and they are 春、夏、秋、冬 for spring, summer, autumn/fall, winter respectively. If they wanted to say spring, they'd say 春.

I don't claim to be an authority, I know some Japanese but I'm not a native speaker. I could be wrong. But this is what I've learned, heard and read. If you've got a native speaker friend who knows better, then get him in here and we can talk about it. Or if some of the other native speakers want to step in and correct me then that would be great.

But "I know a guy who knows a guy" doesn't really carry that much weight against my own knowledge, especially when I suspect that you just asked him the wrong question in the first place. Translation and interpretation is more complex than showing someone one word and asking them what it means.

 

[Soundtrack]

If they wanted to say spring, they'd say 春.

But wouldn't this have referred to a different time span (in term of dates) as, if I understand correctly, Japanese consider the equinox as mid season and not start...