Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[Johnnypenso]

I dunno about that - the more opaque the system is, the more difficult it is to exploit. That may be frustrating to individual drivers, but, well, that's sort of the point imo - in theory it encourages greater caution.

I've got an S-rated SR but I've had a few red races and now I'm not quite sure where I am in S - but I don't want to drop down. Because I don't know where I stand I'm just being a bit more cautious across the board. If I knew that I was still at 95 or something, I may be less inclined to race cleaner because I know I could "afford" some bad races.

I agree that post update the system is a bit strict right now. I've had races where I've had a single collision with someone (that didn't result in going off track, or changing positions) and SR went down. I'm all for the system being overly strict and harsh but that's probably a bit too much! But that should at least be a simple adjustment to make.

The iRacing system is anything but opaque and it works pretty well. No matter how opaque it is drivers are going to figure it out.

 

[Dan]

Not sure where this belongs, but online feels different from hot lapping (Duh!). Here's how it feels to me. Since I don't have a huge amount of time to play online, I mostly do hot lapping. I noticed with my McLaren 650S GT3, it feels almost perfect around the Nurburgring while in SP. I'm using @EDK's tune for it, and it's smooth. When I take it to multiplayer, it feels like it will understeer more often, which is odd. I haven't checked to see if my settings are being changed before the race starts, but it's very confusing.

Also, has anyone noticed their volume lowers while in multiplayer races? Sometimes I can barely hear my McLaren when racing against the Mercedes AMG.

 

[EDK]

Not sure where this belongs, but online feels different from hot lapping (Duh!). Here's how it feels to me. Since I don't have a huge amount of time to play online, I mostly do hot lapping. I noticed with my McLaren 650S GT3, it feels almost perfect around the Nurburgring while in SP. I'm using @EDK's tune for it, and it's smooth. When I take it to multiplayer, it feels like it will understeer more often, which is odd. I haven't checked to see if my settings are being changed before the race starts, but it's very confusing.

Also, has anyone noticed their volume lowers while in multiplayer races? Sometimes I can barely hear my McLaren when racing against the Mercedes AMG.

My tune for the McLaren? I've not posted one.

 

[JDMKING13]

Not sure where this belongs, but online feels different from hot lapping (Duh!). Here's how it feels to me. Since I don't have a huge amount of time to play online, I mostly do hot lapping. I noticed with my McLaren 650S GT3, it feels almost perfect around the Nurburgring while in SP. I'm using @EDK's tune for it, and it's smooth. When I take it to multiplayer, it feels like it will understeer more often, which is odd. I haven't checked to see if my settings are being changed before the race starts, but it's very confusing.

Also, has anyone noticed their volume lowers while in multiplayer races? Sometimes I can barely hear my McLaren when racing against the Mercedes AMG.

Im not experiencing the diffrent car feeling except for when trailing other car sometimes it messes up my braking which leads to understeer but the sound issue yes the AMGs are just super loud messing up my volume of my car. What is weird it only happens when im using my optical cord. When I use the 7.1 with the HDMI its not so bad.

 

[another_jakhole]

What happened to Dragon Trail Gr3 in Europe?? Changed to willow..

They should have given the beta Horse Thief Mile. It was one of the tracks available for the demos at a few events. It's a better layout than Big Willow and as good as Streets of Willow with it being a narrower, low speed course that looks a lot more fun for racing. Damn it, Kaz. Even though I can't play the beta, I would love to see action on Horse Thief Mile. I was damn disappointed it got left out of GT6 when they announced Willow Springs.

 

[Dan]

My tune for the McLaren? I've not posted one.

Oops. I must've accidentally put your name on the file when using someone else's tune. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Haitauer]

I like Brands Hatch, but racing there is a SR killer. I went from a B to a C there in 3 races last night, and most of it was getting beat on by people that are racing for the lead, while in 10th place. Actually started building it back up at Nurb, but got disco'ed just before the third race started. Haven't had that happen in a long time.

Not sure where this belongs, but online feels different from hot lapping (Duh!). Here's how it feels to me. Since I don't have a huge amount of time to play online, I mostly do hot lapping. I noticed with my McLaren 650S GT3, it feels almost perfect around the Nurburgring while in SP. I'm using @EDK's tune for it, and it's smooth. When I take it to multiplayer, it feels like it will understeer more often, which is odd.

Fot me races feel even more grippy if possible.. It is opposite to more common opinion here. One can see 458 gt3 has 🤬 load of grip in the video..And the launch is epic for 2wd - definetely forced tcs there. Alfa 4C wont even spin wheels if floored from grid. Yet I was able to spin 458 on the grass on lap2 which is not that easy to do in v1. 05.. Shoul i be happy if physics are concerned



And one can see that other 458s rear twiching when spinning - lag or skid recovery force?

 

[Dan]

Fot me races feel even more grippy if possible.. It is opposite to more common opinion here. One can see 458 gt3 has 🤬 load of grip in the video..And the launch is epic for 2wd - definetely forced tcs there. Alfa 4C wont even spin wheels if floored from grid. Yet I was able to spin 458 on the grass on lap2 which is not that easy to do in v1. 05.. Shoul i be happy if physics are concerned



And one can see that other 458s rear twiching when spinning - lag or skid recovery force?

After the patch, I felt a major increase in grip with the 650S, but online I'm having trouble with understeer. It feels like the front tires won't bite as much as they do offline.

 

[Imari]

I dunno about that - the more opaque the system is, the more difficult it is to exploit.

Not really. It might take a little longer before people start exploiting it, but that's about it.

It's like security through obscurity, it can help for a while but ultimately you're not making a system any more secure by not publishing how it functions. If anything, you're avoiding getting early advice from the community on whether there are easy ways to break it.

 

[kingpen]

I dunno, IMO the reason it's being exploited is more because it doesn't adequately penalize aggressive/unsafe/unfair driving - right now all it does is give a penalty to both cars that came into contact regardless of how or why it happened. Sometimes this can lead to a double penalty for people that get rammed and then go off track.

This what I think needs to happen:

1). There needs to be penalty severities, perhaps on a scale of 1-5 or 1-10. Right now it's an equal amount of penalty for slightly overshooting a corner as it is to slam into a car at full speed. A slight overshoot or use of outfield should result in a minor penalty, and infield track cuts, heavy/high speed contact with walls, barriers, and other cars should be more heavily penalized.

2). Tracks need better-defined "penalty zones". Going from the penalty scale, there needs to be parts of the track that can be set to different penalty strengths - here's shouldn't be equal penalty for going wide at the end of a former and making a heavy cut to the infield. Basically if a car goes a tad wide and use the outfield at the end of a corner it should be a level 1 track boundary infraction, if the car takes the corner too hard and goes deep into the the outfield or cuts a little bit into the infield it should be a level 2 or 3 track boundary infraction, and if someone takes a heavy shortcut or hits an outer wall at high speed it should be a level 4 or 5 track boundary infraction.

3). There needs to be a system that can analyze car behavior when contact occurs. Given the trackable data already available in-game, it shouldn't be hard to set up a system that can examine from (or even slightly before) a point of contact, and then see if the contact results in a car going off track. If so, the penalty otherwise given for off-track driving could be waived, and the driver responsible could receive a more severe penalty as I outlined in the first bit. To avoid exploits, it could be made void if the off-track driving is on the infield - otherwise people could use the system to bounce off of cars on the outside of a corner, cut in, and then have their penalty waived while taking a shortcut, and giving all the heavy penalties to the car they rammed.

In order for this to work PD may have to set acceptable speeds, car orientations, and steering angles (as underlying software rules ["if, thens"], not as driving regulations) relative to the track per-class. I don't think breaching them should result in penalty unless contact is involved, it could get really hairy otherwise. What may need to happen is having this system analyzing over a set amount of time or a set amount track length after a point of contact - perhaps if on a corner, analyze for the length of the corner and an additional 50-100 meters, and if on a straight, analyze for 3-4 seconds after the point of contact.

Additionally, I do think all cars involved in the contact situation should still receive a penalty - I think keeping that in will encourage people to do their best to avoid touching other cars just as it does now - but the heavier penalties need to land on the offenders.

4). There needs to be additional ways to earn SR points. I can't think of many ways you could that would be reasonable, but given points 2 and 3, it would seem logical if those systems are in place then it wouldn't be too hard to have a system that awards points for avoiding accidents. Basically when the contact system outlined in #3 comes on, the software could label the cars involved as "at risk" during the analyzing process, and slowing down,giving additional space to those cars, or avoiding wrecks should result in an SR gain. It would make sense to have more pints for more cars avoided. This "at risk" label system could also apply to cars that are losing grip or spinning, or are stopped or near-stopped on the track. Additionally if the "at risk" cars are covering too much of the road and/or your speed is too high to slow down or make a safe pass (and the system can accurately calculate all this data), then the boundary penalties outlined in #2 should at minimum be made void. Perhaps make a balancing act based on how many points are awarded for avoiding the accident vs. how severe the boundary violation is.

There could also be points awarded for letting faster vehicles pass when class racing comes around. The only other ideas I had were getting off the racing line when recovering from an accident or waiting for a safe track re-entry (just to give a little bit of an opportunity to mend a screw-up) and perhaps for backing off to avoid going two+ wide on thin high-speed corners on tracks like Tokyo and some parts of the Nurburgring.

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Basically the system right now is just "-point if contact", "-point if off track/wall contact", and "+point if no contact or off track in sector", and it's just not adequate, especially with the esport goals PD have.

Good post, even if I don't agree with some of your points. You said in there that "it shouldn't be hard"...well it is...because what you're suggesting requires heavy coding work and significant processing power to pull off. Those calculations are not as simple as they sound and your PS4 would have a very difficult time running those throughout the course of a race. A race where it is balancing a complex physics system for at least 18 cars and everything else going on beyond what you see on screen. You'll probably have to wait for PS5 for that. PD would take an extra 2 years to make the game and we'd all be going ape**** about it.

 

[Imari]

3). There needs to be a system that can analyze car behavior when contact occurs. Given the trackable data already available in-game, it shouldn't be hard to set up a system that can examine from (or even slightly before) a point of contact, and then see if the contact results in a car going off track.

It is that hard. That's why professional stewards with access to all the car telemetry still find it difficult in real life.

Additionally, I do think all cars involved in the contact situation should still receive a penalty - I think keeping that in will encourage people to do their best to avoid touching other cars just as it does now - but the heavier penalties need to land on the offenders.

See above. Humans have trouble deciding who the offender in a situation is, if there even is one. How do you get a computer to do it?

There's a reason that iRacing simply went for equal points for all involved. It can feel bad, but it's certainly fair in a sense and it makes it very clear that it's everyone's responsibility to avoid incidents. ANY system where there's preference for one driver over another will result in people trying to game it to see how much they can get away with.

4). There needs to be additional ways to earn SR points. I can't think of many ways you could that would be reasonable, but given points 2 and 3, it would seem logical if those systems are in place then it wouldn't be too hard to have a system that awards points for avoiding accidents.

Jesus, you want a system that can determine when an accident would have occurred and rewards the player for taking action to avoid it?

Apart from the fact that it's totally abusable, I don't think you really understand what a computer is capable of doing.

 

[BrainsBush]

Yes, people have exploited a short cut every time Willow comes up. 1.09 is impossible on that track.

Now Willow with a Gr3 class car. Based on my time (1:12:557) and below leader board I assume #7 is the first who set a real clean nice lap time. #1 to #6 are fake. I try not to judge too early but funny to see the flags of #1-6 And I also know a lot of drivers with the same flag who drive the real lap and not taking short cuts off road 👍


If PD plans another update hopefully they added a fence.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Now Willow with a Gr3 class car. Based on my time (1:12:557) and below leader board I assume #7 is the first who set a real clean nice lap time. #1 to #6 are fake. I try not to judge too early but funny to see the flags of #1-6 And I also know a lot of drivers with the same flag who drive the real lap and not taking short cuts off road 👍


If PD plans another update hopefully they added a fence.


View attachment 646075

Yes, this shortcut is clearly an issue.

I'm not sure I like the idea of adding invisible walls though.
Not unless they have one version with walls for official events and another for other racing modes.

I'm sure plenty of people love to have fun blasting through the interior of Willow.

Maybe something like another timing gate could solve the issue?

 

[BrainsBush]

Yes, this shortcut is clearly an issue.

I'm not sure I like the idea of adding invisible walls though.
Not unless they have one version with walls for official events and another for other racing modes.

I'm sure plenty of people love to have fun blasting through the interior of Willow.

Maybe something like another timing gate could solve the issue?

No not invisible. Just a clear fence to keep the cattle on the same path

 

[Tassie_tiger]

No not invisible. Just a clear fence to keep the cattle on the same path

How about an invisible gate, not necessarily a timing gate, that disqualifies lap times that don't pass through that gate?

There must be some sort of unobtrusive solution to this problem PD could employ.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Now Willow with a Gr3 class car. Based on my time (1:12:557) and below leader board I assume #7 is the first who set a real clean nice lap time. #1 to #6 are fake. I try not to judge too early but funny to see the flags of #1-6 And I also know a lot of drivers with the same flag who drive the real lap and not taking short cuts off road 👍


If PD plans another update hopefully they added a fence.


View attachment 646075

I doubt #7 did a proper lap (Also E SR), I had quite a few tenths left to get but didn't bother due to a lot of drivers taking shortcuts. I know #8 did a legit time.

 

[bokimoto]

How about an invisible gate that triggers a black flag, disqualification of driver from that race?

 

[MightyL]

Not sure where this belongs, but online feels different from hot lapping (Duh!). Here's how it feels to me. Since I don't have a huge amount of time to play online, I mostly do hot lapping. I noticed with my McLaren 650S GT3, it feels almost perfect around the Nurburgring while in SP. I'm using @EDK's tune for it, and it's smooth. When I take it to multiplayer, it feels like it will understeer more often, which is odd. I haven't checked to see if my settings are being changed before the race starts, but it's very confusing.

Also, has anyone noticed their volume lowers while in multiplayer races? Sometimes I can barely hear my McLaren when racing against the Mercedes AMG.

Yes it's called dirty air. The effect is definitely there in GTSport. One, adapt your braking points when not alone on track...

 

[diesel97]

Yes it's called dirty air. The effect is definitely there in GTSport. One, adapt your braking points when not alone on track...

Yes, dirty air is a thing but I have the feeling of loss of brakes / no down force on turn 2 of BH (slow corner) this should not be a thing.

 

[Johnnypenso]

4 wheels off track should automatically disqualify any lap from counting in official results. Preventing it from happening to begin with through physical barriers is a separate issue.

 

[queleuleu]

First official ps4 pro bundle? A bundle with GTSport is now a given. Add blur to the PS4 pro version and I will buy one.

 

[snowgt]

4 wheels off track should automatically disqualify any lap from counting in official results. Preventing it from happening to begin with through physical barriers is a separate issue.

I totally agree. In qualifying generally too much currently is accepted for a lap to count.

For Willow it would be enough to impose massive time penalties for cutting track there, or alternatively (or additionally) make a bump that will unsettle cars so much they will spin out when going over it at more than 50 km/h. Or you strategically place some rocks in the desert there...

 

[Johnnypenso]

I totally agree. In qualifying generally too much currently is accepted for a lap to count.

For Willow it would be enough to impose massive time penalties for cutting track there, or alternatively (or additionally) make a bump that will unsettle cars so much they will spin out when going over it at more than 50 km/h. Or you strategically place some rocks in the desert there...

Off topic, but it's hard to believe PD didn't already code in a DQ for getting 4 wheels off the track. On the other hand, kind of humourous to recall some of the rumours about what FIA track certification would mean to the game when they can't even get this most basic principle correct, out of the gate.

 

[diesel97]

Off topic, but it's hard to believe PD didn't already code in a DQ for getting 4 wheels off the track. On the other hand, kind of humourous to recall some of the rumours about what FIA track certification would mean to the game when they can't even get this most basic principle correct, out of the gate.

We all know FIA is just selling it as name and with the right dollar signs Mario cart could use it.

 

[GordonS]

We all know FIA is just selling it as name and with the right dollar signs Mario cart could use it.

We? Who we? I know I don't belong to your wes. So talk for your self but don't generalize.

 

[TS050]

We all know FIA is just selling it as name and with the right dollar signs Mario cart could use it.

Hahaha what

 

[diesel97]

We? Who we? I know I don't belong to your wes. So talk for your self but don't generalize.

I'm sorry I didn't think I was responding to you, and it was tongue and cheek sorry I forgot the

I just find it funny reading through some of these threads that people think that FIA cares about physics, FFB, track cutting etc. They just set up a platform to show a race on TV in a competition format, in simple terms.

 

[Animera]

The FIA sure as hell picked the wrong game.

 

[RedlineRacer]

So do I need to be at a certain SR grade to move up a DR class? My DR progress bar has been filled for the past 5 days, and I have not finished outside the top 5 except for maybe 3-4 races out of about 25 over those 5 days. I should have moved up to DR:A by now. I think the reason I haven't moved up is because I am currently SR:C. Has anyone else experienced this?

 

[oneloops]

The FIA sure as hell picked the wrong game.

PD can still surprise us, they did a very good job with the GT Academy.