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Gran Turismo Sport One Year Later: A Game Transformed (Still Needs Content)
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Scaff
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- ScaffUK
None of the hardware limitations you mention are actual limits of the hardware, but rather design choices (unless we now write everything off as a hardware limitation).
The PS4 hardware doesn't stop any of these things being done at all (which would be a true limit of the hardware - say expecting the original PS to be able to output in 4K with LPCM audio across 7.1).
Rather these are choices that PD have chosen to take within the avaliable resources of the system. Choices that some may be fine with, and others may not. However at no point did the PS4 hardware stop any of these being an option, rather it presented the devs with a choice, and they opted for visual fidelity over these features.
- 2,227
- Bács-Kiskun
Tired Tyres
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- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
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Strictly your opinion. Endless posts asking for the classic fantasy tracks and comparing them favorably to the new seem to indicate yours is the minority opinion.
A million? You really have to resort to massive exaggeration to make a point? Try the facts, for a change. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/the-real-car-count-in-gran-turismo-6.330195/
At the June '15 point, "1267 - 203 Duplicates = 1064 Unique models (so far)"
1064 unique cars. Plus what was added. Maybe 203=millions in your mind, but in the real world, it's a MUCH smaller number!
Actually, subjectively false! But when Sport Mode races pair S rated drivers with much lower ranks due to insufficient participation, when the penalty system still cannot determine fault or intent, when weaving on the trailing car is unpenalized, when the entire well documented horror show of bad racing is up on innumerable threads, maybe it isn't as bad as Quick Race... But it's damn close!
A course maker that sucks is better than no course maker at all. With GTS's tiny track count, a sucky course maker would make all the difference! And all PD ever had to do was review user-created courses and pick two a month they felt were really well designed and add them to the official tracks, GTS's track count would be the best in the genre within a year.
Hardware limitations that SMS seem to be able to circumvent while still calculating a FAR better tire and physics model. So, basically, obviously not a hardware limitation!
Your opinion. Racing Karts at LeMans is unrealistic also. Don't forget, GT6 offered several Kart models with varying power levels, more appropriate to indoor racing. The reason I loved Kart Space was the 'look'. Utterly unique in the game (something you sure can't say about Horse Thief), plenty of layouts, a total break from outside racing, tons of fun.
Ever heard of TT's? S'funny how an actual sport, raced by actual race stars, in actual race cars, is deemed (by you alone) 'not worth it' in a Esports game. Perhaps you could try that opinion out on some of the greats who have participated?
Looks like a racing game to me. Drag was widely attempted (poorly), and a drag track and a test track (which GT5 used to have) were a popular request. TBH, this game lost so much trying to be something it isn't well designed for. Esports will only work when the hardware does a better job of stewarding. Currently, only at Finals levels do humans make the penalty decisions. That isn't good enough. Until then, it is simply one of many driving games, one that lost its way.
The dinosaurs lasted 165 million years, because they were perfectly adapted for their environment. And it took an asteroid to dethrone them. PD delivered their own asteroid, and all we are left with is tiny little subterranean mammals rooting in the rubble. It's going to be a long time (at this rate!) before they become the dominant lifeform. And other games threaten them with extinction in the meanwhile.
And I don't need all bold and a jump in font size to make my point... 4/10
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Yeah, there are a lot of threads where it turned out that the TO didn't know anything about racing rules and was at fault himself...
I couldn't care less about a course maker, really. But I'd say a penalty system that sucks is better than no penalty system at all as it motivates people to race cleanly.
Actually, the penalty system doesn't suck though. It could be better but it doesn't suck.
A lot of points that you made might be important for you but mean nothing to me. GT Games have so many features that it's perfectly fine to have different opinions about which one is the best.
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- Crete
Sorry but , you mean that Lago Maggiore and Dragontrail can't be compared to the classic tracks of the past GT games ? Of course the classic ones have the nostalgia factor but , in terms of quality , the new fictional tracks are definitely up there with them.
Oh boy , haven't we discussed this topic in like , EVERY COMMENT SECTION OF EVERY PRE-RELEASE GT SPORT VIDEO EVER ?
- 3,279
- France
I played Gran Turismo 3 lately. It was so fun to drive a supra gt500 on Trial Mountain with the famous tree tunnel and its lighting. Even if Lago Maggiore is a very good track after years of average original tracks on PS3. Trial Mountain is simply in a league of its own IMO. The flow, the scenery, the layout, everything is perfect. Not too wide, not too narrow. Unfortunately, we'll probably have to wait the next GT for these classic tracks.
(And for some weird reasons, I still find GT3 the most beautiful GT today.)
DavidMonoy97
(Banned)
- 371
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A lack of drift cars really bother me.
- 16,090
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
Put it this way: GT Sport has added more content than GT5 in the same time period. The same can be said for GT6. New content for both games came extremely slowly, and that was quite annoying for me. Thankfully, GT Sport has addressed this and I've never been happier with the state of the game.
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Given the enormous gap between GT5's track and car list and GTS's this is hardly surprising. GT5 didn't add much because it didn't NEED much. Don't forget Spec2. A complete handling overhaul (not just little tweaks) that radically improved the handling. GTS is only acceptable if one forgets it had predecessors.
I think there's a lot of confusion between graphic improvement in new fantasy tracks (undeniable) and flow and design. Yes Dragontrail and Maggiore are among the best of the new bunch, but IMHO they pale against Grand Valley, Deep Forest, Trial Mountain Mid-field, Apricot Hill, Matterhorn (scenery to rival any new fantasy track), Eiger, and, to be quite frank, most of the GT5/6 fantasy tracks. For me, it's a question of flow, and also the proximity of traps and walls to the racing surface, offering little of GTS's acres-wide runoffs that get abused liberally. Most tracks offered little advantage to abusing track limits, often very little off track put you straight into the gravel. Incentivizing good track adherence is a great way to improve racing!
Then think of GT5/6's city tracks and compare to the congested, claustrophobic tracks of the new Tokyo with their almost impossible to achieve clean passes design, and really only London stands out as a similar bashfest opportunity. R246, SSR5 and Rome offered great city vistas but still offered plenty of clean passing opportunity. By design or by accident, you can't really say that about GTS's urban racing.
It isn't nostalgia. It is design.
I think there's a lot of confusion between graphic improvement in new fantasy tracks (undeniable) and flow and design. Yes Dragontrail and Maggiore are among the best of the new bunch, but IMHO they pale against Grand Valley, Deep Forest, Trial Mountain Mid-field, Apricot Hill, Matterhorn (scenery to rival any new fantasy track), Eiger, and, to be quite frank, most of the GT5/6 fantasy tracks. For me, it's a question of flow, and also the proximity of traps and walls to the racing surface, offering little of GTS's acres-wide runoffs that get abused liberally. Most tracks offered little advantage to abusing track limits, often very little off track put you straight into the gravel. Incentivizing good track adherence is a great way to improve racing!
Then think of GT5/6's city tracks and compare to the congested, claustrophobic tracks of the new Tokyo with their almost impossible to achieve clean passes design, and really only London stands out as a similar bashfest opportunity. R246, SSR5 and Rome offered great city vistas but still offered plenty of clean passing opportunity. By design or by accident, you can't really say that about GTS's urban racing.
It isn't nostalgia. It is design.
Stumps_GTI
Premium
- 515
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- Stumps_GTI
Okay, going out on a limb right now......At this point I'll say that it's not boring!! 
Bear in mind, I've not owned it a month yet....been online 27 days straight.
I waited and purchased it cheap on SALE!
So..I've completed licensing, missions and 78% of track experience. What's left there not achieved does not interest me.
Also watched the videos for track etiquette, and driving skills, for online racing. Have not started online racing as yet either.
Having an absolute blast with the graphic editor. Liveries are awesome! 👍 (NEEDS MORE folders )
My downsides for needed improvement...
More one player "campaign mode" races. (which they appear to be updating from time to time. Several still show NEW content available).
More cars. (which I now know are getting added as time goes on...). Can't wait for the 22B. 👍
More Australian Scapes? WTF!! Why NONE?? Aside from a test drive around Mount Panorama there is NOTHING!!!
I'll see how I feel in 12 months time, but for now at least, I am having fun. The visual graphics I don't think are far ahead of GT6, but I'm still on an older 1920 Res screen and am contemplating a 4k update soon, so that should improve I imagine.
Bear in mind, I've not owned it a month yet....been online 27 days straight.
I waited and purchased it cheap on SALE!So..I've completed licensing, missions and 78% of track experience. What's left there not achieved does not interest me.
Also watched the videos for track etiquette, and driving skills, for online racing. Have not started online racing as yet either.
Having an absolute blast with the graphic editor. Liveries are awesome! 👍 (NEEDS MORE folders
)My downsides for needed improvement...
More one player "campaign mode" races. (which they appear to be updating from time to time. Several still show NEW content available).
More cars. (which I now know are getting added as time goes on...). Can't wait for the 22B.
👍More Australian Scapes? WTF!! Why NONE?? Aside from a test drive around Mount Panorama there is NOTHING!!!
I'll see how I feel in 12 months time, but for now at least, I am having fun. The visual graphics I don't think are far ahead of GT6, but I'm still on an older 1920 Res screen and am contemplating a 4k update soon, so that should improve I imagine.
- 1,632
- Mass UTC-5
- HugoStiglitz_420 and GTP_HugoStiglitz
It doesn't bother me too much either especially since Sport mode is the most fun I've ever had in a racing game but I think it's very important that they make GT Sports save files offline when the servers go down for good. We should be able to save progression offline once that happens. I think it should be possible but it really needs to be.
We already do have some form of offline save which is why when you do play offline, you still have all of your cars (except any cars you bought with microtransactions, those aren't available offline which I found out the hard way when I tried racing my Merc F1 while the servers were updating)
The problem with always online games isn't the online part, it's the being completely useless when offline part. GT Sport isn't an always online game but unless they make a patch to allow offline saves when they shut down the game servers in a few years, it's only a small step above an always online game which are frankly nothing but glorified rentals.
As far as Aussie content, I would lose my 🤬 if they added Surfer's Paradise. I love that track. Not enough racing games have that track. It's a lot of fun and actually great for racing for a city track. Plenty of passing opportunities.
Really most of the things you chalked up to hardware limitations are just design choices. Personally I think they made the right choice in most cases. The quality vs quantity bit especially.
People may fool themselves into thinking it's reasonable for a developer to have hundreds of cars because it's been done in the past, but it simply isn't possible to do without sacrificing the quality of each car. I'd much rather have the cars all be great quality, than have mediocre quality like Forza and have more of them. And I don't mean graphically either. The visual models of cars can be outsourced, the physics and characteristics of each car cannot, and that's only a small part of why Forza has never felt as good as GT. You can say the same about pCars too. Their car models are super inconsistent (physics wise).
And same thing with the dynamic time/day thing. You cannot have anywhere near the quality of graphics GT Sport has with a time of day cycle. Plus, even the best looking games with time of day in them look bland at times. Just look at Driveclub. Sometimes insane looking, sometimes bland. Same story in any other game too. Picking set times gives them ultimate control of the presentation and I think we get a far better experience because of it.
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Its funny but I think a GT7 following a traditional GT would have doomed the franchise. Game development is a human process. By throwing out an idea or support for an idea it could stale the development of such an idea perhaps even end it.
PD and Kaz were brave to do a soft reboot and its payed off. They've got a great foundation with big potential in the future. The traditional GT experience can easily be recreated but GTS as an idea would not have been.
PD and Kaz were brave to do a soft reboot and its payed off. They've got a great foundation with big potential in the future. The traditional GT experience can easily be recreated but GTS as an idea would not have been.
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- s_dawg4
As good as Surfer's Paradise is, it has been featured in at least one or two racing games in the past. On the other hand, The Bend is a brand new track in the state of South Australia that I think should get a look in! It has a dedicated drag strip plus 4 or 5 different layouts!
If you want a good city track, Adelaide is even better than Surfer's! It has two layouts, one that is currently used for the Adelaide 500 (formerly the Clipsal 500) and a longer version once used to host the Australian Gran Prix before it (the race) went to Melbourne.
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In 1995, when the Australian GP went to Melbourne, ALL the F1 drivers nearly boycotted the race because they felt that the Adelaide circuit was the best street circuit they had ever race on!!!
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- 816
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- And-War
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- vspectra06
- vspectra06
We already had rain on ps3, ps4 is more than capable of it. PD artists just take too long.
Static lighting doesn't mean you can't have rain effects.
- 2,600
- Brazil
We already had rain on ps3, ps4 is more than capable of it. PD artists just take too long.
Static lighting doesn't mean you can't have rain effects.
That is not how this works,technical hurdles can happen in any console gen,PD aren't working with PS3 textures,they are doing AAA graphics pushing the PS4 to the limit and that creates it's own set of problems.
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- vspectra06
- vspectra06
Texture quality is a matter of memory, textures aren't that taxing on GPU or CPU power for it to be a hurdle to any other rendering features. What would be an intensive resource hog is trying to make all of the lighting/GI and weather effects changing dynamically in real time, stuff which GTSport isn't even trying to do and something that PD's PS3 games did. So what we have in GTSport is pre-baked global illumination lightmaps which already frees up a huge amount of resources for the renderer. On top of that, the weather effects are confirmed to be static and are already in the game. The only big issue that would really be a cause for concern for the framerate is the amount of rain spray (alpha effects) kicking up from the cars, but they can just reduce the amount of alpha particles like they did with the smoke (also created with alpha effects)
You also have Kaz saying as recently as in the middle of this year that rain is still coming, and that the team was actually still debating this year on whether to do dynamic or static weather.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/rain-confirmed-more-cars-and-tracks-coming-soon.377254/
This is just another case of Polyphony's workflow taking forever. Having more graphical power means they can put in much more detail, which means PD artists can take that much longer. This is why we had an incredible disappointingly low track list count at launch after 4 years of development, and even then the graphics for the Alsace track are a huge step down from something like Nurburgring where the artists spent more time handcrafting. At least they felt the backlash and started to outsource assets now.
Also worth mentioning, even Forza 6/7 has good looking rain effects, and that's having to run on hardware even weaker than the base PS4. The PS4 isn't holding rain back from GTSport.
- 1,748
- vspectra06
- vspectra06
Considering PD were still debating this year on whether to go with dynamic or static weather, I wouldn't expect to see rain until the end of 2019 or into 2020.
A year after release isn't that long for PD standards though. They waited 2 years until they released Course Maker for GT6, a feature which was in GT5 on day one.
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Maybe GT7 Prologue, yes!
I alluded earlier to how PC2 already has full weather, at an acceptable graphics level on a PS4Pro. Is it GTS's level? No.
But honestly, guys, you would really be happy waiting at least three years for a feature you used to have, simply to have it at a slightly better resolution or framerate?
What do you guys do... race or watch racing? If you want to watch races in exquisite resolution and utterly convincing graphics and sound levels, WATCH REAL RACING! If you want to race in varied conditions like you used to be able, accept the degradation of resolution that is going to have to have. I can assure you, at least on a Pro, rain is already perfectly acceptable (as in, much better than GT6) in PC2.
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- Brazil
PD must be having problems with the framerate with rain,their lighting engine must be causing problems(it's because of the lighting engine that time of day isn't dynamic)
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Bottom line, if you want to race in varying weather and progressive ToD conditions, there's already a decent game out where you can do just that. If you are mired in PD's corner, you'll be waiting for a few years.
- 1,748
- vspectra06
- vspectra06
There isn't anything wrong with their lighting engine, it looks fantastic and runs at a stable 60fps. It's simply a design choice for them to avoid dynamic time change so they can pre-bake high quality ray-traced global illumination light bounce. The PS4 cannot do ray-tracing in real-time, and most likely neither will next-gen consoles. Even the new NVIDIA GTX 2080 graphics card that costs $1000 can't do full on ray-tracing in real-time, it only handles a very limited number rays and has a massive performance impact. PD could have done dynamic time change, but lower the graphical quality and get rid of the ray-traced global illumination.
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- And-War
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- coltsjugg
1 year later its just not that great. The graphics are alright, that's about it. The driving doesn't feel that good. FFB? what FFB? Every public lobby is a "plz help start" Sport mode is still boring. Call of duty updates, the new stuff is old.
Next update is probably deep forest or trial mountain or some other track they made up, add something new and blow our minds. the brazil track was nice to see to begin with.
Next update is probably deep forest or trial mountain or some other track they made up, add something new and blow our minds. the brazil track was nice to see to begin with.
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