Gran Turismo World Series 2024 Thread
- Thread starter Pfei
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Upon reflection I think committing to Gr.3 for Manufacturers makes sense for PD at this point. Both from a BoP point of view, where they seem to have a decent handle on Gr.3 but the FFs and 4WDs make Gr.4 way more swingy depending on the track schedule; but also from a car dev pipeline perspective, where not having to make cars where the only reason they exist is to get manufacturers into Manufacturers Cup makes sense - the Swift Gr.4 is a car that only really exists so that Suzuki could join, for instance.
- 480
- Canada
- moosethemooche78
A new season of the Manufacturers Cup is here. That means it is time to pick a car. In my ongoing quest to use all the brands, I've decided once again to pick from the least popular ones in Canada from the previous season. That gives me the choice between two brands -- Citroën and Jaguar -- neither of which were driven by any Canadians last season.
To decide which one pick, I drove them each through all four races of the coming season as Custom Races against a single opponent. For the purposes of testing, I disabled penalties and damage and used the default weather (Afternoon S01). Here's how that went (detailed results are in this spreadsheet).
For this race, since I didn't know the optimal strategy, I started on RS tires for each car, drove until one of the tires was completely worn, and switched to RHs for the rest of the race.
I drove the Citroën first. The whole time I was on RSs, it felt like the car was trying to kill me. Lap times were all over the place from all the times I went off the track. When I switched to RHs, the car became much easier to manage.
The Jaguar was just the opposite. No drama at all. I pointed the car where I wanted it to go and it went there.
This was a straight-ahead sprint on RH tires. Both cars barely saw any tire wear.
I tested the Jaguar first on this race. I haven't driven this track much, so I spent a fair bit of the race just trying to remember how to drive it. If I were to re-run the test, I imagine I could get a significantly better time. I don't know if it would be enough to beat the Citroën, though. It was surprisingly strong on this track.
I wasn't sure what the tire wear was going to be like for this race, so I picked RM tires for both car, which easily made it a no-pit race.
The Citroën was first up this time. Aside from an incident on turn 1 of lap 4, the car felt pretty good here. The Jaguar was good, too, but slower. I just couldn't match the lap times I was getting with the Citroën.
I was pretty comfortable on this track having just run the TGR race there recently. Under the current tire physics, both cars easily made it to lap 14 on the RSs for a switch to RM for the final lap.
I ran the Jaguar first on this race. It felt fine. As usual, there was no drama at all. Then the Citroën came along and was consistently beating it.
The Citroën was significantly faster on most of these races. Of course, I have some reservations about Interlagos with the dreadful performance on RS tires. I'm hoping with some practice I can get the car under control there. But even if I can't, I feel like it is obviously the better option for the remaining races.
To decide which one pick, I drove them each through all four races of the coming season as Custom Races against a single opponent. For the purposes of testing, I disabled penalties and damage and used the default weather (Afternoon S01). Here's how that went (detailed results are in this spreadsheet).
Rd.1 - Interlagos
| Manufacturer | Model | Strategy | Opt time | Best time | Avg time | Avg dev | Total time |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Citroën | GT by Citroën Race Car (Gr.3) | 14RS-16RH | 1:32.097 | 1:32.132 | 1:35.691 | 0:01.998 | 47:50.731 |
| Jaguar | F-type Gr.3 | 15RS-15RH | 1:32.131 | 1:32.386 | 1:35.101 | 0:01.794 | 47:33.041 |
For this race, since I didn't know the optimal strategy, I started on RS tires for each car, drove until one of the tires was completely worn, and switched to RHs for the rest of the race.
I drove the Citroën first. The whole time I was on RSs, it felt like the car was trying to kill me. Lap times were all over the place from all the times I went off the track. When I switched to RHs, the car became much easier to manage.
The Jaguar was just the opposite. No drama at all. I pointed the car where I wanted it to go and it went there.
Rd.2 - Tokyo Expressway
| Manufacturer | Model | Opt time | Best time | Avg time | Avg dev | Total time |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Citroën | GT by Citroën Race Car (Gr.3) | 2:02.426 | 2:02.971 | 2:04.283 | 0:01.082 | 24:51.390 |
| Jaguar | F-type Gr.3 | 2:03.504 | 2:04.027 | 2:05.299 | 0:00.974 | 25:03.591 |
This was a straight-ahead sprint on RH tires. Both cars barely saw any tire wear.
I tested the Jaguar first on this race. I haven't driven this track much, so I spent a fair bit of the race just trying to remember how to drive it. If I were to re-run the test, I imagine I could get a significantly better time. I don't know if it would be enough to beat the Citroën, though. It was surprisingly strong on this track.
Rd.3 Autopolis
| Manufacturer | Model | Opt time | Best time | Avg time | Avg dev | Total time |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Citroën | GT by Citroën Race Car (Gr.3) | 1:46.857 | 1:47.471 | 1:50.817 | 0:01.733 | 18:28.166 |
| Jaguar | F-type Gr.3 | 1:47.951 | 1:49.236 | 1:50.404 | 0:00.312 | 18:24.036 |
I wasn't sure what the tire wear was going to be like for this race, so I picked RM tires for both car, which easily made it a no-pit race.
The Citroën was first up this time. Aside from an incident on turn 1 of lap 4, the car felt pretty good here. The Jaguar was good, too, but slower. I just couldn't match the lap times I was getting with the Citroën.
Rd.4 - Nurburgring
| Manufacturer | Model | Opt time | Best time | Avg time | Avg dev | Total time |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Citroën | GT by Citroën Race Car (Gr.3) | 1:55.033 | 1:57.185 | 1:59.663 | 0:02.559 | 29:54.943 |
| Jaguar | F-type Gr.3 | 1:55.251 | 1:58.193 | 2:00.145 | 0:02.433 | 30:02.175 |
I was pretty comfortable on this track having just run the TGR race there recently. Under the current tire physics, both cars easily made it to lap 14 on the RSs for a switch to RM for the final lap.
I ran the Jaguar first on this race. It felt fine. As usual, there was no drama at all. Then the Citroën came along and was consistently beating it.
A Decision
Probably no surprise here.The Citroën was significantly faster on most of these races. Of course, I have some reservations about Interlagos with the dreadful performance on RS tires. I'm hoping with some practice I can get the car under control there. But even if I can't, I feel like it is obviously the better option for the remaining races.
- 3,317
- London, ON
- A_Mindful_Place
Decided to go with Audi and give an honest best attempt for the exhibition season. I finished top 300 last time using the Hyundai (ugh; first with this Manu tho) and want to see if I can eek out any more performance.
Good luck everyone!
Good luck everyone!
- 1,445
- United States
- equus_ferrum
I know it's impossible to please everyone when dealing with millions of players, but this is the first time in either GTS or GT7 that I actively dislike every single race in a season...this season will be a no-show for me.
Edit: This is a first time for a Manufacturer's or Nation's Cup - most seasons of the Toyota Cup have had absolutely zero races I've been interested in.
Edit: This is a first time for a Manufacturer's or Nation's Cup - most seasons of the Toyota Cup have had absolutely zero races I've been interested in.
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- 367
- Netherlands
I love that livery. Couldn't find the Kink sticker. Do you happen to have a search term for it? Cheers, Seth
Millions... Manu doesn't even reach a 100k drivers for the main event, much less and probably a lot of them are alts.
- 710
- Rotterdam
- mcl-1974-2
just shared it, friends only. look for kink or seth...
- 367
- Netherlands
Looking at the dates and event contents, I don't think I'll join this time around. Last 2 I'm away on vacation. And round 2 seems like a race in the wet and frankly quite boring. Leaves interlagos. But that one I'd love to do group 1 style. If I somehow can manage that in the next couple of weeks, I'll reconsider.
- 3,317
- London, ON
- A_Mindful_Place
Tried a practice round today in a random Spanish lobby. My R8 can only manage about 10 laps on softs. @Moose78 , no idea how you managed 15 laps on RS. My rear right was dead at the end of lap 10. I tried to Fraga GTWS strategy while the others only pit once. I ended up 24 seconds behind after being punted and losing ten seconds.
I have a feeling a one-stopper is going to be the fastest for those who can save their tyres.
I have a feeling a one-stopper is going to be the fastest for those who can save their tyres.
- 1,445
- United States
- equus_ferrum
I was going for the general number of people who bought the game - including those who never even touch Sport Mode, but yeah yours is probably the more relevant number.
- 585
- East Yorkshire
- Zorzil
I don't envy you in the Audi. The Gr.3 Audis are amongst the worst in the class for tyre wear, never mind how unstable they rapidly become as the rears wear out.
I'll be running Dodge myself this season and was only able to get 12 laps from the Softs in my test run last night, so whilst 10 is bad, it's not massively off. I could possibly get 13 laps out of them if I start on the Hards and switch to them later, but definitely not 15.
- 480
- Canada
- moosethemooche78
A lot of it is the car, I'm sure, but I expect a fair part is how I drive that track. I've adopted some habits -- mainly for self-preservation and consistency -- that are probably helping with tire wear. For example, I know I brake earlier and more for turn 4 (Descida do Lago) than most drivers -- at or even a little before the 100 board -- to avoid getting a track limit penalty for going wide on the exit. I also often short shift out of turns 4 and 12 (Juncao) to avoid oversteer. I'm pretty sure this makes me slower on the track than I could theoretically be, but I feel it is worth it for the consistency. And if I get some extra tire life out it, so much the better.
Since we are already on the topic of tire wear and strategy, I ran a couple strategy tests (custom race against one opponent in default S01 Afternoon weather, driving the Citroen GT) to see how a 2-stop strategy compares to a 1-stop. The first was 14RS-14RS-2RH. From my Citroen-Jaguar shootout, I knew I could get 14 laps on the softs starting from a full fuel tank, so I decided to go for two 14-lap stints on softs. After reviewing the replay, it looked like I might be able to squeeze out a extra lap in the second stint, when there's less weight from fuel, so for my 1-stop test, I chose a 15RH-15RS strategy.
Here's how they compared (details in this spreadsheet):
| Strategy | Opt time | Best time | Avg time | Avg dev | Total time |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 14RS-14RS-2RH | 1:31.761 | 1:31.814 | 1:35.205 | 0:03.420 | 47:36.143 |
| 15RH-15RS | 1:31.605 | 1:32.246 | 1:34.656 | 0:01.934 | 47:19.678 |
For me, it's looking like the 1-stop is going to be my best option. I wasn't able to overcome the additional pit loss from doing a second stop -- even discounting the mess I made of lap 12. It isn't that far off, though. I'm thinking a 1RH-14RS-15RS might be a viable plan B if I happen to take damage on lap 1.
Edit: Adding tread level info...
Tread levels on first pit:
| Strategy | Front left | Front right | Rear left | Rear right |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 14RS-14RS-2RH | 60% | 35% | 40% | 10% |
| 15RH-15RS | 75% | 65% | 70% | 60% |
On second pit:
| Strategy | Front left | Front right | Rear left | Rear right |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 14RS-14RS-2RH | 65% | 40% | 50% | 20% |
At finish:
| Strategy | Front left | Front right | Rear left | Rear right |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 14RS-14RS-2RH | 100% | 100% | 100% | 100% |
| 15RH-15RS | 60% | 35% | 40% | 10% |
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- 585
- East Yorkshire
- Zorzil
I'm getting the impression the 1-stop is the way to go, but some people could definitely mix things up with the 2-stop.
I've done two test runs now in the Dodge and had the following results:
All I'll say is the Dodge wears out the front right first by some way, even whilst running the brake balance at 4 to try to shift some of the wear rearwards. This is also whilst on a wheel.
I'll need to retest the 1-stop again tomorrow to make sure. I felt like my consistency was overall better and my driving smoother on the second run since I managed to eek out more time on the Softs, so I think that gap is potentially smaller than it should be. I've got a feeling that I could bring that 1-stop time down a little.
I've done two test runs now in the Dodge and had the following results:
- 12S-18H in 47:04
- 13S-3H-14S in 47:06
All I'll say is the Dodge wears out the front right first by some way, even whilst running the brake balance at 4 to try to shift some of the wear rearwards. This is also whilst on a wheel.I'll need to retest the 1-stop again tomorrow to make sure. I felt like my consistency was overall better and my driving smoother on the second run since I managed to eek out more time on the Softs, so I think that gap is potentially smaller than it should be. I've got a feeling that I could bring that 1-stop time down a little.
bliprunner
Premium
- 109
- United Kingdom
- bliprunner
No time to test lots of options so have gone with boring and dependable Porsche (plus I’ve never used them before)
Think this will be an interesting season with the physics change coming halfway through… looking forward to it!
Think this will be an interesting season with the physics change coming halfway through… looking forward to it!
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- 3,317
- London, ON
- A_Mindful_Place
Does fuel amount influence tyre wear much over longer races? I may start on hards if that's the case..
- 480
- Canada
- moosethemooche78
The effect is not huge, but it is there. I was seeing about a 5% difference between the first and second stint on softs in my 14RS-14RS-2RH test. That might be enough for an extra lap on softs, or at least make the grip last a little longer.
It is also going to depend on the rate that the car consumes fuel. Cars with higher fuel consumption will get lighter faster, which will magnify the effect.
- 585
- East Yorkshire
- Zorzil
In addition to what @Moose78 said, I believe tyres you get during a pit stop tend to run colder than the tyres you begin a race on, which would also contribute to extending their lifespan.
Wombleleader did a YouTube video testing it about a year ago after the apps that read the raw data from the game started popping up.
He found the initial tyres when he joined a lobby began at around 70C, but the new tyres he got after making a pit stop were around 60C. Even weirder, they kind of stayed around that lower temperature even after doing some laps.
(Roughly 2:50 to 17:00)
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- 480
- Canada
- moosethemooche78
- 6,979
- Birmingham, UK
- GOTMAXPOWER
- 3,317
- London, ON
- A_Mindful_Place
Tried another practice race yesterday in a EU/UK lobby. I managed just until the end of lap 11 on RS tyres but the last corner before the 'home straight' saw me spin out as the rear-right tyre died. I didn't change any brake balance either to try and get them to last longer, ultimately saving me almost a lap... Not entirely sure how useful that was.
In the R8 this feels a bit hopeless here. May just resort to doing a two stopper 8RH - 11RS - 11RS.
In the R8 this feels a bit hopeless here. May just resort to doing a two stopper 8RH - 11RS - 11RS.
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- 367
- Netherlands
Thw pittimes for the GTWS seemed shorter for Interlagos. Do we know how they will be in the Exhibition? Would be cool if we'd see 1,2 or even 3 stops as perfectly viable strategies. Just like the live event. I mean; did anyone notice Carazza doing the 3 stopper? He went from dead last to 6th. That's smart racing.
- 480
- Canada
- moosethemooche78
Excellent point! I, for one, haven't tested this yet. All my tests so far were in custom races with the standard pit times. It would be interesting to see if the time in Free Practice is any different.
I suppose we can't really know for sure what it will be in the race until some of the Asia/Oceania racers have a crack at it, but I would hope that Free Practice matches what we'll get in the race.
- 3,317
- London, ON
- A_Mindful_Place
- 585
- East Yorkshire
- Zorzil
Just finished my follow-up 1-stop test and it ended up being a 47:05, going 16H-14S this time.
I think I lost a couple of seconds trying to get past the AI car after the pit stop since I caught it through the Senna S, but still practically identical to the first run. I thought I had gained some pace and consistency but maybe that first run wasn't as bad as I thought.
With regards to the comparison with the GTWS event for pit stop lengths, don't forget they were running a special version of 1.49.
I've compared the length of the pit stops from my practice custom races now with the length of my stop at the last Gr.3 Interlagos GTWS event I could find where a pit stop was required, which was about a year ago. There was some minor differences but both come out to about a 29s cutscene between pit entry and the car going into autodrive on the pit exit lane.
I'm going to keep an eye out for it on Asia-Oceania streams tomorrow now since the discussion has me curious, but I'm leaning towards the custom race being accurate. Will happily admit I'm wrong if that ends up being the case though!
I think I lost a couple of seconds trying to get past the AI car after the pit stop since I caught it through the Senna S, but still practically identical to the first run. I thought I had gained some pace and consistency but maybe that first run wasn't as bad as I thought.
With regards to the comparison with the GTWS event for pit stop lengths, don't forget they were running a special version of 1.49.
I've compared the length of the pit stops from my practice custom races now with the length of my stop at the last Gr.3 Interlagos GTWS event I could find where a pit stop was required, which was about a year ago. There was some minor differences but both come out to about a 29s cutscene between pit entry and the car going into autodrive on the pit exit lane.
I'm going to keep an eye out for it on Asia-Oceania streams tomorrow now since the discussion has me curious, but I'm leaning towards the custom race being accurate. Will happily admit I'm wrong if that ends up being the case though!
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- 480
- Canada
- moosethemooche78
I admire the skepticism.
It is pretty easy to test this for yourself, though. In fact, I'd love for somebody to do that to either confirm or contradict the results that I saw. Here's what I did.
I ran a 2-lap custom race, pitting on lap one. I saved the recent game play to a video so I could re-watch it with the pit time timer, which is not visible in the replay, IIRC. In the video, the car showed up in the pits at around the 22-second mark. It switched from auto-drive at 44.4 seconds.
I switched to Free Practice and drove a lap, going straight into the pits. After I came out of the pits, I saved the last minute of recent game play. In the video, the car showed up around the 8-second mark and switched from auto-drive at 30.0 seconds.
I'll be watching the Asia/Oceania streams tomorrow to see when the car shows for tires. If it is at the 8-second mark, versus 22 seconds, we'll know it we're getting the shorter pit times.
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