GT Academy: Fedup with folks who go off the track? Not playing clean?

[TheDrummingKING]

👍

Thanks for the laugh!

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Unfortunately they are the kind of people who use advantages to win the contest, but will suck when it comes time to strap into a real car. Guaranteed.

I know you said this a long time ago but I personally think the complete opposite. These people are generally exceptionally fast, have the racing mentality and use everything to their advantage. They are willing to try different ideas to make them even faster and also have the skill to pull it off. Adaptable to new lines, that drive to the limit of the regulations of the competition off the game. If the rules change and their time gets disqualified then they will drive the next fastest line and so forth.

This is what happens in real life too. For example drivers in F1 try and cut the corners as much they can get away with. Also depends on what you say driving cleanly means, driving to the rules or what you perceive to be the rules and regulations? For example I think one of the races this year allowed F1 drivers to cut the pit lane line but at the same track, a different racing championship on the day before didn't allow it and punished drivers if they did. Would you in the position of an F1 driver not cut the pit lane line to be faster and would you perceive it to be morally wrong if you did.

Here is another scenario that could come up in real life. The rules and regulations allow you to use one of the run-off areas as part of the track which will most likely make you go faster. Would you use it or would you perceive it as not clean as you perceive it as not part of the track? Ask any real racing driver and I'm pretty sure they would say they would take the fastest line and for the team boss, if they had a driver refuse to take the run off-area to improve lap time, then they would likely be told to go packing.

I am coming to the point that, if the people are driving to the limit of what the game defines as clean then drive to the limit, not your own regulations. Driving a slower line and then say you don't mind if you don't get through as long as you kept to your morals of driving what you perceive to be as clean is not a racing drivers mentality. This leads me back to the quote of yours at the top. I believe people with your strong mindset on set driving will struggle more, as you may be less willing to take risks to gain an advantage on track and less likely to adapt to new regulations. Racing drivers should drive on the limit of the track and car, not just the car.

Finally about your moral ideas about driving cleanly or in spirit of most real life regulations and rules. Then why is it motorsport, such as in F1 teams complain about things such as the double diffusers and the F-Duct going against the spirit of the rules, and if they can't get it banned, they copy the design concept themselves. They then go against what they define as spirit of the rules and develop their car to the limit of the actual regulations, not what they perceive it to be. If it gets banned later on then so be it, but any advantage as a racing team or driver should be taken in with both hands. Why do you want to drive a slower line if all it does is punish you and gives you a lot less odds of getting through the first round? You might drive faster in other sectors than the driver who is just a bit ahead but uses the fastest line to get the final spot. Would you not feel gutted, or would you say let them cheat, at least I stood up to my own regulations and not the games. This leads to believe you don't the mindset of a racing driver. This is not a personal attack or anything, just my opinion on what I read so far in this thread. Sorry for the long winded post.

 

[TheDrummingKING]

*really big post*

Ahh, it's nice to see someone can make a valid arguement. You made very good points sir. I feel both sides are correct in their own right. Good day! 👍

 

[scir16v]

Don't know how to embed, but here is a race at laguna seca in 2009. This was a final race in ALMS. I know we've been talking about cutting corners and such. The drivers were both warned about their driving, but it's amazing video none the less.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Ahh, it's nice to see someone can make a valid arguement. You made very good points sir. I feel both sides are correct in their own right. Good day! 👍

I am bored waiting for my B-Spec driver to finish a championship. 3 laps left then I can turn the PS3 off and go sleep. I'm in the UK so what is happening in the U.S. GT Academy does not affect me at all but the differences of opinion made me make a comment.

 

[TheDrummingKING]

I am bored waiting for my B-Spec driver to finish a championship. 3 laps left then I can turn the PS3 off and go sleep. I'm in the UK so what is happening in the U.S. GT Academy does not affect me at all but the differences of opinion made me make a comment.

Well I'm in Canada so I also can't take part..

 

[Choate51]

I am bored waiting for my B-Spec driver to finish a championship. 3 laps left then I can turn the PS3 off and go sleep. I'm in the UK so what is happening in the U.S. GT Academy does not affect me at all but the differences of opinion made me make a comment.

Counterpoint: it's not right to be telling Bob to race with his life on the line while your whining about going to bed

 

[Deuce350z]

I'm defending it because I would do anything to make the top 128. If taking the lawnmower route meant the difference between going to round 2 or killing my dream. I will take the john deere route.

And I don't blame anyone for doing it either, as I know I'm not the only person out there with some talent, no connections, or money to go racing.

We'll see how PD/Sony respond to this and we'll take it from there, until then let's all chill out and go enjoy the holidays.

You guys seriously need to chill out.

 

[TRC G00SE]

might as well throw my 2 pennys in here....

If you are in a qualifying session of a real event, and you see someone take a big cut or go off track without penalty, and set a great time........would'nt you do it?

I realize the argument that will soon follow ..."this is not for a real race...blah blah blah.....*tears*" But there is prizes at stake. I dont like it and have not done it yet myself. I sit in the top 20 in the region, and dont have a ton of time to race. If i knew i could follow their line and take first overall at the last minute.....it will be done.

 

[scir16v]

Right now, I just want round 2, then I'll look forward to round 3.

 

[Louie_Schumii]

You guys realise that the real issue here is the penalty system for damage and off-track excursions that the game has right?

 

[Deuce350z]

You guys realise that the real issue here is the penalty system for damage and off-track excursions that the game has right?

That was part of my point in my original post, the dead zones on track are clearly not setup proplerly and Sony/PD needed to adjust them, but folks thought this was a thread to target their best lap times, which is not the point of the post. Thanks for bringing this up man.

 

[TRC factory]

I know you said this a long time ago but I personally think the complete opposite. These people are generally exceptionally fast, have the racing mentality and use everything to their advantage. They are willing to try different ideas to make them even faster and also have the skill to pull it off. Adaptable to new lines, that drive to the limit of the regulations of the competition off the game. If the rules change and their time gets disqualified then they will drive the next fastest line and so forth.

This is what happens in real life too. For example drivers in F1 try and cut the corners as much they can get away with. Also depends on what you say driving cleanly means, driving to the rules or what you perceive to be the rules and regulations? For example I think one of the races this year allowed F1 drivers to cut the pit lane line but at the same track, a different racing championship on the day before didn't allow it and punished drivers if they did. Would you in the position of an F1 driver not cut the pit lane line to be faster and would you perceive it to be morally wrong if you did.

Here is another scenario that could come up in real life. The rules and regulations allow you to use one of the run-off areas as part of the track which will most likely make you go faster. Would you use it or would you perceive it as not clean as you perceive it as not part of the track? Ask any real racing driver and I'm pretty sure they would say they would take the fastest line and for the team boss, if they had a driver refuse to take the run off-area to improve lap time, then they would likely be told to go packing.

I am coming to the point that, if the people are driving to the limit of what the game defines as clean then drive to the limit, not your own regulations. Driving a slower line and then say you don't mind if you don't get through as long as you kept to your morals of driving what you perceive to be as clean is not a racing drivers mentality. This leads me back to the quote of yours at the top. I believe people with your strong mindset on set driving will struggle more, as you may be less willing to take risks to gain an advantage on track and less likely to adapt to new regulations. Racing drivers should drive on the limit of the track and car, not just the car.

Finally about your moral ideas about driving cleanly or in spirit of most real life regulations and rules. Then why is it motorsport, such as in F1 teams complain about things such as the double diffusers and the F-Duct going against the spirit of the rules, and if they can't get it banned, they copy the design concept themselves. They then go against what they define as spirit of the rules and develop their car to the limit of the actual regulations, not what they perceive it to be. If it gets banned later on then so be it, but any advantage as a racing team or driver should be taken in with both hands. Why do you want to drive a slower line if all it does is punish you and gives you a lot less odds of getting through the first round? You might drive faster in other sectors than the driver who is just a bit ahead but uses the fastest line to get the final spot. Would you not feel gutted, or would you say let them cheat, at least I stood up to my own regulations and not the games. This leads to believe you don't the mindset of a racing driver. This is not a personal attack or anything, just my opinion on what I read so far in this thread. Sorry for the long winded post.

My $0.02

If this was a friendly competition where there was nothing but bragging rights up for grabs, then a code of conduct could be agreed upon by all of us. We could all ignore the times of anyone we thought was driving outside 'our' personal idea of fair driving. This is how many of the racing series worked in Forza. Everyone knew what was allowed and what was not. Since the events were created and controlled by the gamers themselves, a much stricter set of rules could be adopted, regardless of what the game considered 'cheating'.

GT Academy is a whole different beast. There are real prizes at stake here, including a shot to become a real race driver. The game itself defines what is 'cheating' and what is not. Consider PD to be the governing body in this case. If the game allows it, and doesn't disqualify you for it, then you are not cheating if you use it.

If I owned a racing team I would expect one thing. That each of my drivers did everything within the rules of each particular event to come out on top. If other drivers were using a runoff area of the track to maintain momentum and run faster laps, and the governing body of this event was allowing it, I would expect my drivers to do it as well. If they instead chose to take the moral high ground and therefore lose time and the race, I would be quick to replace them with someone who would. Conversely, if they 'cheated', did something to gain an advantage that was clearly against the rules set out by the race officials, I would replace them as well.

I don't think anyone likes the idea of taking unrealistic lines in a racing game, it goes against our very essence as race enthusiasts. However, any real racer will tell you that if it makes you go faster, and it is allowed, then it is fair game to everyone.

I felt like I was reading my post all over again

 

[Dapper]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=115513
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=198
Clean racing is kind of passionate on this website, look for yourself.

 

[RedSuinit]

I don't know where I stand on this. I am having a hard time on Tsukuba because I don't want to go flying off the track coming into the start/finish section like everyone else does. However, I might just cave in and do it.

 

[Deuce350z]

Here's a video I captured of my previous lap record, I still have areas I need to work in but in general this is what I mean by a clean lap. First lap i got on the accelerator too soon came out to wide in the last turn so I did one more run to make it clean.

 

[chukabilly]

This whole thread seems to sum up what I feel for this "simulator".
Regardless of the series, there is always an super-realistic way to achieve that magic lap time. Part of that is the game, part of that is reality. The Purists may call "Foul", but that same move might have been made on the last lap of any race.
I can race clean enough to make the next round, but eventually I will expect Polyphony to clean up the show.
Merry Christmas

 

[The Cheef]

I've got one question that will settle my decision on whether or not to go mowing grass and it has to do with the format of the competition its self.

Does your overall time from round one get tacked onto the overall time achieved in the events in round 2 to decide who goes onto round 3?

If this is the case then absolutely, I'll be mowing grass like it's my job. But if people who make it to the next round are given a fresh slate and a new leaderboard to work with, then I'll stay where I'm at with my current lap. I'm pretty confident I can make top 128 with my current rate of progress. This is also assuming that there will be new tracks for round 2.. But yeah, I have no clue how the format goes as far as these elimination rounds goes, if anybody would be willing to shed some light on this for me, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,

The Cheef

 

[CodeRedR51]

I would assume they will wipe the slate clean for the next round. I'm looking at this like F1 drivers have to qualify for their races. No reason for me to push myself to get the pole in the first round, when I only have to stay ahead of the cut-off and get to the next round. 👍

 

[Drift260Z]

I'm looking at this as there are only 16 spots available in GT Academy. if I can't get into the top 16 now, why bother with the rest?

 

[CodeRedR51]

I'm looking at this as there are only 16 spots available in GT Academy. if I can't get into the top 16 now, why bother with the rest?

Point is, who cares who is fastest now, when your time gets wiped out for round two anyways? As long as you are in the top 128 for round one, it doesn't matter where you are at.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I felt like I was reading my post all over again

I did not see your post before writing, so we definately think a like on this issue.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=115513
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=198
Clean racing is kind of passionate on this website, look for yourself.

Most of us know this but that is GTP rules, not GT Academys. I'm sure that if GT Academy added similar additional rules to the game like GTP, then people won't go off track but that is not the case and people should take advantage of it as others are.

 

[Timppaq]

It's really too bad and a great shame they can't make the effort to be sure that the fastest way to go in these academy TT's is a "clean way". It's been like this before, maybe a little more toned down (turn 11 @ Indy road) and they allowed as much cutting as the game allowed. Only during the first academy I remember them deleting some times off the board when someone was wallriding quite heavily in the Eiger TT. (you still might find the vid from YT, Sphinx had a vid of it, literally was not using brakes at all in the 1st sector).

As sad as it is, it is rather certain that they will allow as much "cheating" as the game allows you to do. This just shows there wasn't enough time spend testing this kind of behaviour and it's really sad that this is making the first phase of a really great competition a bit of a joke in my eyes.

Still.. would I do it? Propably yes if it was required to get to the next round. I can't be sure if that is the case as I can't test the current TT (US only). Hopefully in next round they have made this better.

I really can't blame anyone who just does what the rules allow him to do. That is the nature of this competition.. It is still a game. The pointing finger goes towards PD only. It isn't rocket science to get rid of this kind of ridiculousness.

Still, I rise my hat to anybody who earns his 2nd round place without doing these tricks. I bet it is possible.. if the shortcutting gives you 0.6 secs, I bet if you are in total time only 0,6secs behind the round 1 winner you're guaranteed to go through. 👍 Even if it is close to second I think it will still be doable, 128 is big number and even between first place and the 10th, there will be a gap of around 0,5secs at least, or that is the way it has so far been. Might be even more as the total time is over 5 mins if I've understood right.

Good luck to all anyway, and remember that there is always more time to loose, just keep on it and make it happen!!

 

[01GTP]

Great post, Timo.

I look at it this way.

I could mow the grass to first place or I could drive an incredible lap to first place.
It's up to the competitor. My preference would be the latter.

The GT Academy officials could look at the current (12/23) 1st place at the Cape and see a wrecked undercarriage of a car, or not, that's up to them.
All I know is someone who drives like that should not be in a car, let alone racing one. The beginning of the lap looks reckless. The repair bills would be tremendous.

The best driver (not the fastest) will emerge from this competition as they always do, remember that.

All I know is it won't be me.

Merry Christmas!

 

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

You guys realise that the real issue here is the penalty system for damage and off-track excursions that the game has right?

DING DING DING DING...After 14 pages we finally have a winner. I've been trying to stay out of the fray here. But the more I read, the more I feel the need to give the fingers a workout.

The real problem is the game allows this sort of stuff to happen. The penalty system should prevent cuts, but it doesn't. So this cut or whatever is going on (haven't seen it yet) is 100 percent legit as far as this competition is concerned and is absolutely NO different from what would happen if a real world competition was run with the same rules. Cuts happen all the time in real world racing. I'm not sure what kind of racing you people watch. But the stuff I watch the driver, and team for that matter, will look to exploit ANY and EVERY possible advantage they think they can get away with. That's racing. Racing is NOT everyone holding hands and signing kumbayah together. It's a cuthroat, win at all cost, stretch the rules, whatever. Just win.

I thought the stig replica helmet strapped on too tight thing was a problem at the Race Pro forums back in the day. But there's a couple here that have really taken the cake with their holier than thou purism. To you people I'll say this, get over it and start directing your complaints in the right place because blaming drivers who are taking advantage of the rules in place is just you waa waa'ing.

That being said, I agree that I wish it wasn't like this. But the reality is this cut is allowed, and you can bet your last dollar that anyone truly wanting to win this thing will take advantage of whatever they have to within the rules. Which is again, no different than the real world, as drivers will cut and use any tactic they can to gain a advantage. This is no different.

 

[kmac540]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=115513
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=198
Clean racing is kind of passionate on this website, look for yourself.

Great post, Timo.

I look at it this way.

I could mow the grass to first place or I could drive an incredible lap to first place.
It's up to the competitor. My preference would be the latter.

The GT Academy officials could look at the current (12/23) 1st place at the Cape and see a wrecked undercarriage of a car, or not, that's up to them.
All I know is someone who drives like that should not be in a car, let alone racing one. The beginning of the lap looks reckless. The repair bills would be tremendous.

The best driver (not the fastest) will emerge from this competition as they always do, remember that.

All I know is it won't be me.

Merry Christmas!

For the record, I think everyone does need to chill out (agreed Deuce350z)...

To add a bit more to the record, I've watched a number of the top replays and personally feel that they hardly qualify as "lawnmowing." Clean racing has more to do with a head to head situation than a time attack, and most (read: most) of the top drivers manage to keep at least 2 wheels on the course at all times with the exception of that one turn in question, and it is doubtful that the turn really gains anymore than 0.05 to 0.1 seconds... If Nissan/PD decide to invalidate those laps, I'm fairly positive those same drivers would still be at the top.

Happy Holidays to all and just get out there and have some friggin fun...
👍

 

[Dapper]

Most of us know this but that is GTP rules, not GT Academys. I'm sure that if GT Academy added similar additional rules to the game like GTP, then people won't go off track but that is not the case and people should take advantage of it as others are.

It has nothing to do with rules.

@ Mr. Paq, thanks for chiming in. 👍

 

[SLAPHAPPYFRANKY]

I watched the 1st place replay and had tears from laughing on how bad he jumped a corner(not the infamous pit lane exit). For one straight he drive in the grass the whole time then hopped over the rumble and entered into a slide into the next corner. It was great and just shows PD hasnt placed good penalty spots.

 

[kmac540]

I watched the 1st place replay and had tears from laughing on how bad he jumped a corner(not the infamous pit lane exit). For one straight he drive in the grass the whole time then hopped over the rumble and entered into a slide into the next corner. It was great and just shows PD hasnt placed good penalty spots.

To clarify, I'm only looking at replays in my region (Midwest)... Not going to waste time watching others outside of my region...

 

[Choate51]

I watched the 1st place replay and had tears from laughing on how bad he jumped a corner(not the infamous pit lane exit). For one straight he drive in the grass the whole time then hopped over the rumble and entered into a slide into the next corner. It was great and just shows PD hasnt placed good penalty spots.

Honestly I think he just made a mistake on the shortshoot where he's in the grass the entire straight, then uses the grass to get the backend out. I've been there quite a few times and I must say it took some driving to save that mess.