GT and Kaz

[ICEYOU3]

I wouldn't be surprised if Kaz decides to call it a career after the 8th game and passes off the series to the next generation that has been groomed with the proper Gran Turismo know how, but will also push the IP into the future.

I've mentioned this before, but Namco's Ace Combat team has recently acknowledged that the original staff is aging and to counteract this has brought in younger talent from another developer in hopes to give the AC series some much needed innovation. Perhaps this would benefit Polyphony if they tried something like this.

 

[kjb]

I'd like to think all the variants of one model were his ideas. As well as museum features.

Track creator and the plug in car data thing, may have been his idea as experiments.
Motorsports/eSports were probably his ideas. eSports probably due to the past Nissan partnership and online data gathering. Just taking it that step further.

Everything else, I figure, are cash grabs.

I think that is my issue with him he does all these half done experiments. He has come up with some good ideas but he doesn't finish them. He's like an absent minded professor who has all these great ideas he never follows through on

 

[Earth]

Take the last four iterations.

What we are seeing is basically the same game, with slight improvements and fewer features. I honestly don't believe Kaz is anything more than a figure head at this point. This game is on autopilot with a few hands on deck and a junior producer at the helm.


There's no way in the world that a AAA game can't afford 1 person to implement events across all tracks. Tokyo is full of events, but there's 2 at the Nürburgring, and they are both in the rain. 2 at Le Mans?

The signs that there's nobody home are everywhere in this game.

In the lead up to an earlier game, I think it was GT5, they were interviewing Kaz and he basically let it slip they had did zero work on the type of events that were going to be in the game, with just a handful of months left until launch. Keep in mind this was a game that was in development for like 5 years.

I came to peace with the fact GT is no longer going to innovate and keep improving as a franchise like it did from GT1 to GT4. So I've stepped away from the GT series, and Im not missing it at all. I could try Forza, but it looks like a reskin of GT.

At this point GT needs a legitimate reboot. GT8 should just be called Gran Turismo, or Gran Turismo A-Spec. Kaz can stay on as an advisor, but the single player mode needs to be completely revamped, with a completely different structure and focus then anything that's come before it. Stalwarts like license tests etc can stay, but everything else needs to be different. Heck, at this point even adding a simple story to the game would be an improvement.

GT can reinvent itself - look at what Hideo Kojima did going from Metal Gear Solid 4 to Metal Gear Solid 5. It paid off big time. I just dont think Kaz has the creative drive anymore to pull that off. The whole esports focus is just latching onto the latest fad.

 

[Nagaremono]

At this point GT needs a legitimate reboot. GT8 should just be called Gran Turismo, or Gran Turismo A-Spec. Kaz can stay on as an advisor, but the single player mode needs to be completely revamped, with a completely different structure and focus then anything that's come before it. Stalwarts like license tests etc can stay, but everything else needs to be different. Heck, at this point even adding a simple story to the game would be an improvement.

The whole esports focus is just latching onto the latest fad.

But that’s what they did this time, it’s why we have the stupid cafe and confusing world map instead of the old leagues. It might even be why we have no selling.

I’d say the licences are getting stale and need to be merged with CE somehow, but go back to the trad single player start with the ‘normal’ league campaign. And buying and selling.

Agree 100 per cent on the esports.

 

[alex511]

Kaz this year get‘s 55 years old. It’s the age, where people think how to complete their working life. Continue or doing anything else for the last business years.
But regardless of that I think, after GT7 was a bit of reborn of the GT series after GT Sport, Sony will follow discussions with Kaz and PD as it seems success of GT7 for a future production. Next year will follow a Movie. If the sells of the game will continue well, a next game is the only conclusion, with or without Kaz in director role.

 

[VinylRichie]

Weird game. By a weird man. From a weird country. For weirder fans.

Weird, illogical, sadistic.... it's a feature not a bug.

I've always thought it's better to tell people it's a Japanese game more than a car game.

I feel Forza is to GT. What GTA is to Shenmue. You kind of need to be Japan curious to chose one over the other.

No, not at all. It just isn’t your thing.
If it’s weird to you ok, but GT has in comparison to Forza soul, character, even if it’s sometimes a weird character to some people. That’s my opinion.

 

[Scaff]

"special Gran Turismo soul“

This 'soul' is as much a consumer created myth as the one that Apple and Tesla stans have created around those brands.

Note that I'm just being a bit grumpy here, as its the oft cited excuse for crappy design and delivery across all three.

Oh and if you want weird Japanese design in a racing title then GT doesn't even come close, for that you want Enthusia.

 

[Nagaremono]

Weird game. By a weird man. From a weird country. For weirder fans.

Weird, illogical, sadistic.... it's a feature not a bug.

I've always thought it's better to tell people it's a Japanese game more than a car game.

I feel Forza is to GT. What GTA is to Shenmue. You kind of need to be Japan curious to chose one over the other.

I wish it were much more weirdly (in a good way) Japanese.

It’s gotten a bit anodyne and ‘global’ for my liking, it’s got a ‘trying to please everyone everywhere’ kinda vibe.

 

[Voodoovaj]

But that’s what they did this time, it’s why we have the stupid cafe and confusing world map instead of the old leagues. It might even be why we have no selling.

Ya, no...The cafe is not a revamp of single player. It's just a way to get people to play the events in a format that is the same as GTSport. As a single player game, GTSport was better for the sole reason that it encouraged you to use slower cars in order to win more money. How many would try to find the best 500PP car to win the 700PP LeMans race?

No selling forces people to buy credits if they don't earn enough. So, in classic F2P manner, you either grind of buy.

This game has been "in development" since the release of Prologue. They can say right now that they are "working on" GT8 and it would not be a lie. The problem is that they have absolutely no one working on making it a good game experience. It's successful for them, and they aren't wrong. The most important part of a racing game is how the cars drive, now the progress through the game, especially when it's open ended.

Still, there's so much that they could do to make it better, but the business guys have killed all that.

 

[cjsrt4]

This 'soul' is as much a consumer created myth as the one that Apple and Tesla stans have created around those brands.

Apple and Tesla owners (a lot of them, not all), put those brands in a special "bubble" because they think anything else is beneath it. That's the complete opposite of a soul. Sure, some hardcore GT fans think it's the only racing game worth playing, but if you removed all branding, logo's etc from every GT game from the start and played them all in order, you would still know exactly what game you are playing. From the elevator menu music, car presentation and just the overall feel of each game. That's what gives GT its own soul, but I feel that's mainly because of Kaz. It's also a catch 22, because it proves the game hasn't really changed much or evolved in those 25 years.

 

[Scaff]

Apple and Tesla owners (a lot of them, not all), put those brands in a special "bubble" because they think anything else is beneath it. That's the complete opposite of a soul. Sure, some hardcore GT fans think it's the only racing game worth playing, but if you removed all branding, logo's etc from every GT game from the start and played them all in order, you would still know exactly what game you are playing. From the elevator menu music, car presentation and just the overall feel of each game. That's what gives GT its own soul, but I feel that's mainly because of Kaz. It's also a catch 22, because it proves the game hasn't really changed much or evolved in those 25 years.

Having a consistent design language doesn't equal a soul for any of these brands.

GT has no more a soul than they do, despite fans of each stanning for them, all arguing that the brand in question has a magical element that makes them unique (despite often borrowing from competitors), something you've just demonstrated rather well.

 

[cjsrt4]

Having a consistent design language doesn't equal a soul for any of these brands.

GT has no more a soul than they do, despite fans of each stanning for them, all arguing that the brand in question has a magical element that makes them unique (despite often borrowing from competitors), something you've just demonstrated rather well.

You're taking the word soul far too serious and literal. GT is definitely unique when it comes to it's competitors, regardless if it borrows a few things from them. But one can argue that every game that competes against it, borrowed their ideas 100%. Literally every brand has done that at some point. Is "soul" the absolute correct word to use? No, but most people understand what it means when used out of context.

 

[Scaff]

You're taking the word soul far too serious and literal. GT is definitely unique when it comes to it's competitors, regardless if it borrows a few things from them. But one can argue that every game that competes against it, borrowed their ideas 100%. Literally every brand has done that at some point. Is "soul" the absolute correct word to use? No, but most people understand what it means when used out of context.

Does Forza have this 'soul'? Does Grid, RF2, Dirt, etc?

If not, why not?

If you can't actually define it, then it's simply brand language taken to the level of blind loyalty (which is also what Apple and Tesla have done).

 

[cjsrt4]

None of those games (especially Forza) would be where they are today (or even exist), if it weren't for Gran Turismo. I'm not brand loyal to anything, but I can respect what Kaz did in defining the genre and paving the way for all those games you mentioned. I think GT7 is a pile of garbage where it stands today. I own an iPhone 13, Apple Watch and AirPods, but I also don't own a MAC. I'm a PC user. My preferred racing game is ACC. I think Elon Musk is an insane ignorant moron, but if it weren't for his vision with Tesla, we wouldn't be where we are today with trying to move forward with the auto industry. Any performance EV currently on the market today, would not exist if it weren't for Tesla. And I hate Tesla. I don't have to define anything. Like I said earlier, you took the word way too literal.

 

[alex511]

Does Forza have this 'soul'? Does Grid, RF2, Dirt, etc?

If not, why not?

If you can't actually define it, then it's simply brand language taken to the level of blind loyalty (which is also what Apple and Tesla have done).

I think what he want to say, no other racing game celebrates the relation between human to the machine „car“ so much and consistent like Gran Turismo. If you play gran turismo, you feel it’s a love letter for the automobile.
Don’t you feel it? I have played nearly every racing series, but no other gave me this.
This authentic. It has for me a soul, that I as player can identify with it.
Other racing games there give me a generic feeling and I only play it and close it. But gran Turismo is more. It’s a place to feel the „cars“, as stupid it sounds. The whole presentation is awesome.

I have to add, the only other racing game, gave me this feeling, was nfs Porsche. But it was a unique title.

 

[cjsrt4]

I think what he want to say, no other racing game celebrates the relation between human to the machine „car“ so much and consistent like Gran Turismo. If you play gran turismo, you feel it’s a love letter for the automobile.
Don’t you feel it? I have played nearly every racing series, but no other gave me this.
This authentic. It has for me a soul, that I as player can identify with it.
Other racing games there give me a generic feeling and I only play it and close it. But gran Turismo is more. It’s a place to feel the „cars“, as stupid it sounds. The whole presentation is awesome.

I have to add, the only other racing game, gave me this feeling, was nfs Porsche. But it was a unique title.

To an extent, yes. But in Scaff's defense, I also admitted that using the word soul is probably wrong. It's impossible to define something like that when it's digital. Soul is the only word that comes to mind. You just know it's GT by playing the game. It has it's own characteristic feeling to it. Similar to a human being with a soul. In movies, when they say they "sold their soul to the Devil", they changed as a person. GT has pretty much been the same for 25 years. When you look at an iPhone, it's really nothing special. It looks like most other smart phones it competes against. The Corvette lost it's soul when they decided to put the engine at the back. Is the C8 worse? Hell no it's not. It's the best Corvette to date, but it's not FR anymore.

 

[Scaff]

I think what he want to say, no other racing game celebrates the relation between human to the machine „car“ so much and consistent like Gran Turismo. If you play gran turismo, you feel it’s a love letter for the automobile.
Don’t you feel it? I have played nearly every racing series, but no other gave me this.
This authentic. It has for me a soul, that I as player can identify with it.
Other racing games there give me a generic feeling and I only play it and close it. But gran Turismo is more. It’s a place to feel the „cars“, as stupid it sounds. The whole presentation is awesome.

I have to add, the only other racing game, gave me this feeling, was nfs Porsche. But it was a unique title.

No I don't get it from GT, as that feeling shouldn't come from an interface or a UI, and given the number of errors it doesn't come from the history side either.

The closest I would get to that would be from the accuracy of the simulation putting me 'in' the car, and the number of titles that do that better than GT are numerous (and its still not a soul).

When you look at an iPhone, it's really nothing special. It looks like most other smart phones it competes against

Yet when you use an iPhone it's interface and user experience couldn't be anything else.

 

[cjsrt4]

Yet when you use an iPhone it's interface and user experience couldn't be anything else.

I'll give you that one. It literally hasn't changed since the original iPhone.

 

[Scaff]

I'll give you that one. It literally hasn't changed since the original iPhone.

Which was my point regarding the Apple and GT comparison.

 

[cjsrt4]

Which was my point regarding the Apple and GT comparison.

But that's one little product. It doesn't define Apple. I'm comparing 25 years of GT. You're simply arguing over the fact that you just don't like Gran Turismo. It's not about liking vs disliking. It's about powering up any of the games they have made, and understanding that they all have something very similar. Comparing it to a soul.

 

[Samus]

The word you're looking for is identity, not soul.

 

[cjsrt4]

The word you're looking for is identity, not soul.

Identity just sounds boring though. Soul is much more "woke". I'm currently googling what woke means.

 

[Scaff]

But that's one little product. It doesn't define Apple.

Nope its not, Apple has a consis6design language across all products.

I'm comparing 25 years of GT. You're simply arguing over the fact that you just don't like Gran Turismo.

Quote me saying that.

It's not about liking vs disliking.

I know I've not said that.

It's about powering up any of the games they have made, and understanding that they all have something very similar.

Just like an iMac or an iPhone.

Comparing it to a soul.

Which is a poor comparison.

 

[ICEYOU3]

Deleted

 

[cjsrt4]

Nope its not, Apple has a consis6design language across all products.

They do now. They have evolved into that. It wasn't until the passing of Jobs that they went in that direction. 15 years from now, Apple will most likely have evolved into something more innovative and awesome. GT11 will most likely feel like the same game as the original.

Quote me saying that.

Quote you saying what?

Which is a poor comparison.

We've gone in circles with the soul vs not a soul BS comparison. I've made my point and explained it multiple times why I used the word. Whether you like the word or not, I don't really care. I admitted it was out of context, but again, you keep taking it far too literal.

 

[UKMikey]

Quote you saying what?

That he doesn't like GT.

 

[cjsrt4]

That he doesn't like GT.

C'mon man! I needed him to say that so I could quote him and then "Mic Drop"......

 

[Scaff]

They do now. They have evolved into that. It wasn't until the passing of Jobs that they went in that direction. 15 years from now, Apple will most likely have evolved into something more innovative and awesome.

its been pretty much constant across the life of the iPhone and has spread to the rest of the ecosystem.

GT11 will most likely feel like the same game as the original.

GT8 isn't even that.

Quote you saying what?

That I dislike GT, after all you claimed I did.

We've gone in circles with the soul vs not a soul BS comparison. I've made my point and explained it multiple times why I used the word. Whether you like the word or not, I don't really care. I admitted it was out of context, but again, you keep taking it far too literal.

Putting the exact word aside, do you believe it's unique to GT, or do other racing titles manage to hit that measure?

 

[cjsrt4]

Putting the exact word aside, do you believe it's unique to GT, or do other racing titles manage to hit that measure?

What other racing title has been out as long and with as many titles? Project Cars has 3 titles with the 3rd being completely different. Forza has 7 motorsport titles, and with each title they claim to be reinventing the game. NFS? Do I even need to comment on them? Who else has been around for that long? It's like Kaz is the grandfather to all it's competitors. I'm simply saying that with 5 generations of consoles that GT has been on, the game has not lost that GT feeling. Good or bad is not what I'm saying.

That I dislike GT, after all you claimed I did.

I got the impression you did not like the games. Considering you have not said a single positive thing about it in our conversation. My mistake for jumping to conclusion.

No I don't get it from GT, as that feeling shouldn't come from an interface or a UI, and given the number of errors it doesn't come from the history side either.

The closest I would get to that would be from the accuracy of the simulation putting me 'in' the car, and the number of titles that do that better than GT are numerous (and its still not a soul).

This gave me the impression that you are not a fan of GT

 

[Scaff]

What other racing title has been out as long and with as many titles?

what does longevity have to do with it?

Project Cars has 3 titles with the 3rd being completely different.

indeed

Forza has 7 motorsport titles, and with each title they claim to be reinventing the game.

Yet they have a common feel and approach across them.

NFS? Do I even need to comment on them?

Given that its the biggest selling racing series on the planet it might be worth it.

Who else has been around for that long? It's like Kaz is the grandfather to all it's competitors.
I'm simply saying that with 5 generations of consoles that GT has been on, the game has not lost that GT feeling. Good or bad is not what I'm saying.

It's kept a reasonably consistent design approach, as have others.

I got the impression you did not like the games. Considering you have not said a single positive thing about it in our conversation. My mistake for jumping

This gave me the impression that you are not a fan of GT

I not actually commented negatively or positively, simply argued that GT doesn't have some mysterious quality .