GT and Kaz

[cjsrt4]

what does longevity have to do with it?

This is the entire point I've been trying to make here. It all comes down to how long they have been around and how similar they all feel when you play them. It's the OP's main point. "What will happen to GT if Kaz is no longer involved? Will it lose it's soul"?. Who cares about NFS sales? None of their games have a similar feel or look to them. The discussion isn't about sales or popularity. NFS hasn't had a clue of what type of game it wants to be in over 10 years.

 

[Scaff]

This is the entire point I've been trying to make here. It all comes down to how long they have been around and how similar they all feel when you play them. It's the OP's main point. "What will happen to GT if Kaz is no longer involved? Will it lose it's soul"?. Who cares about NFS sales? None of their games have a similar feel or look to them. The discussion isn't about sales or popularity. NFS hasn't had a clue of what type of game it wants to be in over 10 years.

So just to be clear a series that has for almost every release, focused on street racing road cars and avoiding the police (since its first title) doesn't have a consistent approach?

And yes a few releases have strayed away from that, but GT has had its releases that have done the same, such as the Concept and PSP releases, and even the prologues.

 

[cjsrt4]

So just to be clear a series that has for almost every release, focused on street racing road cars and avoiding the police (since its first title) doesn't have a consistent approach?

And yes a few releases have strayed away from that, but GT has had its releases that have done the same, such as the Concept and PSP releases, and even the prologues.

Starting out as a simple circuit style minimal lap based game, then adding cops to the mix a few games later, releasing a game based on 1 vehicle make, switching to street racing at night, then tried to get serious with Pro Street, then switching to a cinematic story based game, then trying to go full on sim, back to open world, and so on, and so on....

The smaller GT games were still GT games. The PSP version was still 100% GT. Prologue wasn't anything different. It was just a smaller game.

 

[Scaff]

Starting out as a simple circuit style minimal lap based game, then adding cops to the mix a few games later, releasing a game based on 1 vehicle make, switching to street racing at night, then tried to get serious with Pro Street, then switching to a cinematic story based game, then trying to go full on sim, back to open world, and so on, and so on....

The original NFS was not a simple circuit based racer at all, it was road based, road car based, had traffic, and featured police pursuits...

The Need for Speed - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The smaller GT games were still GT games. The PSP version was still 100% GT. Prologue wasn't anything different. It was just a smaller

Your making allowances for differences for GT that you are denying another title.

Take GT PSP, it literally removed almost every progress and advancement mechanism from GT, one has to undertake some serious mental gymnastics to claim its 100% GT.

 

[alex511]

The original NFS was not a simple circuit based racer at all, it was road based, road car based, had traffic, and featured police pursuits...

The Need for Speed - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Your making allowances for differences for GT that you are denying another title.

Take GT PSP, it literally removed almost every progress and advancement mechanism from GT, one has to undertake some serious mental gymnastics to claim its 100% GT.

..But GT Never had a title which left the DNA of GT. As need for speed did with Porsche, Pro Street and Shift 1 and 2.
And only GT can say, 25 years from the same developer.
NFS had had a dozen of studios which got the job to Programm a game with this title. It was and is only a franchise.
GT was everytime in the making of Kazunori Yamauchi so PD.That we shouldn’t forget in this discussion.

 

[Scaff]

..But GT Never had a title which left the DNA of GT. Like need for speed did with Porsche, Pro Street and Shift 1 and 2.

So Concept, which featured zero non-concept cars, no GT progression, etc didn't deviate?

PSP which abandoned so many of the core GT tenants didn't deviate?

Then again I've actually already addressed that very point in this thread already, so I suspect we are back to GT exceptionalism.

To add more detail to a point I had to make earlier, I don't dislike GT as a series, the absurdity of its die-hard stans does however make that insanely difficult. Having a rational discussion is once again pretty much impossible.

 

[alex511]

So Concept, which featured zero non-concept cars, no GT progression, etc didn't deviate?

PSP which abandoned so many of the core GT tenants didn't deviate?

Then again I've actually already addressed that very point in this thread already, so I suspect we are back to GT exceptionalism.

To add more detail to a point I had to make earlier, I don't dislike GT as a series, the absurdity of its die-hard stans does however make that insanely difficult. Having a rational discussion is once again pretty much impossible.

The focus of GT everytime is and was, „legal“ races
Am I wrong?
Need for speed many times lost their focus on „illegal racing“
Am I wrong?
That was my main point.

 

[Samus]

So you reduced the soul of GT to.....legal racing?

 

[Scaff]

The focus of GT everytime is and was, „legal“ races

That's the soul of GT!


Yeah, I'm done with this nonsense.

 

[alex511]

So you reduced the soul of GT to.....legal racing?

I reduced nothing!
It was only my main point in the comparison of the focus of GT and Need for Speed.

 

[Dave A]

I reduced nothing!
It was only my main point in the comparison of the focus of GT and Need for Speed.

It's a pretty wide net to cast as supporting evidence that they're all the same.

A number of a GT titles are vastly different to others beside simulating cars racing on closed circuits. That's not soul, it's consisent in a very, very loose sense.

Gran turismo titles certainly have an identity, but when something is descibed as having a soul you are simply using hyperbole, it's meaningless unless you qualify it with an explanation of what you mean. Otherwise my dining table has "soul" and I challenge you to prove me wrong on that.

 

[cjsrt4]

Yeah this topic has gone way too off topic for me. Taking about dining tables having souls and what not. Everybody knows only GT can have a “soul”. I’m gonna go back to drinking beer and building LEGO Optimus Prime. Toodles

 

[alex511]

Yeah this topic has gone way too off topic for me. Taking about dining tables having souls and what not. Everybody knows only GT can have a “soul”. I’m gonna go back to drinking beer and building LEGO Optimus Prime. Toodles

Cheers.!

 

[Earth]

The title of this video is kind of trolly, it is a bit old, but I'm not trying to upset people by posting it here, but what they say fit into what some of us are saying here.

These are level headed gamers - and they make reasonable criticisms of the game. Things like how many parts of it still feel like a 90s or 2000s game. Things like how crash damage and crash physics are completely ignored. Completely unacceptable for a AAA flagship title on a brand new console thats not even 2 years old. They also go after the graphics, which doesnt surprise as it's essentially a PS4 game that was ported to PS5.

One of the guys in the video also makes a good point - there's nothing exciting in the game that makes him want to keep playing it. I played and enjoyed GT Sport because it introduced the livery editor and sport mode - two new features to the franchise that got me excited and were actually useful, new, and fun. GT7 has...music rally?

Someone already said in this thread that Kaz knows he can just slap some random races together and put the GT name on it and most people will be satisfied. But for people who expect and desire continuous, steady improvement from every new iteration, 7 really falls horribly short. It kind of reminds me of the Madden Franchise. They just keep pumping out a barely passable product with little to no innovation while not fixing legacy issues that are sometimes over a decade old.

Like Madden, I dont think things are going to change until GT gets serious competition.

I honestly dont understand how Kaz is tolerated at Sony. 4 year development cycles for a racing game?

Now, Im not just going to rant here. If someone asked me, well, what would you add to the game to make it better from every iteration that came before it? They could have added official support for online leagues. Official support for online drag racing. Official support for driver changes in online endurance races. Made it PS5 exclusive and bumped the max number of cars on track, at least offline, to 32, or more. A deep single player race or championship creator that lets you choose each car and even add a custom livery to them, each track, how many laps, how many points are awarded, etc. A single player team builder. A way to customize a garage your car is kept in. An online league team builder. A story campaign. More GT auto customizations like race seats, and racing wheels. Steal stuff from Forza like the livery auction. A free roam area. Why most of this and more wasnt in GT from 10 years ago who knows.

Simple fact is PD is creatively bankrupt. Like Madden they can do the minimum, and it will still sell well and get reviewed fairly decently.

 

[Imari]

Everybody knows only GT can have a “soul”.

Honestly not sure if serious.

 

[alex511]

The title of this video is kind of trolly, it is a bit old, but I'm not trying to upset people by posting it here, but what they say fit into what some of us are saying here.

These are level headed gamers - and they make reasonable criticisms of the game. Things like how many parts of it still feel like a 90s or 2000s game. Things like how crash damage and crash physics are completely ignored. Completely unacceptable for a AAA flagship title on a brand new console thats not even 2 years old. They also go after the graphics, which doesnt surprise as it's essentially a PS4 game that was ported to PS5.

One of the guys in the video also makes a good point - there's nothing exciting in the game that makes him want to keep playing it. I played and enjoyed GT Sport because it introduced the livery editor and sport mode - two new features to the franchise that got me excited and were actually useful, new, and fun. GT7 has...music rally?

Someone already said in this thread that Kaz knows he can just slap some random races together and put the GT name on it and most people will be satisfied. But for people who expect and desire continuous, steady improvement from every new iteration, 7 really falls horribly short. It kind of reminds me of the Madden Franchise. They just keep pumping out a barely passable product with little to no innovation while not fixing legacy issues that are sometimes over a decade old.

Like Madden, I dont think things are going to change until GT gets serious competition.

I honestly dont understand how Kaz is tolerated at Sony. 4 year development cycles for a racing game?

Now, Im not just going to rant here. If someone asked me, well, what would you add to the game to make it better from every iteration that came before it? They could have added official support for online leagues. Official support for online drag racing. Official support for driver changes in online endurance races. Made it PS5 exclusive and bumped the max number of cars on track, at least offline, to 32, or more. A deep single player race or championship creator that lets you choose each car and even add a custom livery to them, each track, how many laps, how many points are awarded, etc. A single player team builder. A way to customize a garage your car is kept in. An online league team builder. A story campaign. More GT auto customizations like race seats, and racing wheels. Steal stuff from Forza like the livery auction. A free roam area. Why most of this and more wasnt in GT from 10 years ago who knows.

Simple fact is PD is creatively bankrupt. Like Madden they can do the minimum, and it will still sell well and get reviewed fairly decently.

1. The vid is from march. Since then, it really got much better and surely it evolves more over the next month. Nearly every AAA title nowadays sucked ad beginning, no news.
2. For comparison FH5. What did they change to FH4? They put inside expeditions and a bit better lightning, which GT7 makes better and it’s crossgen still, too. A nearly empty map with huge problems to beginning. And 3 years of development.
3. If they only had made GT7 for PS5-generation, the huge PS4-membership would have make a huge upset, too, when there are no PS5 consoles in the free market. So definitely a decision which is the best for the biggest part of playership.
4. They speak about competitors. When we look on PS-base. It is Sonys fault that the competitors don’t take the competition seriously? Look at PC3.
They throw out a game, without understanding what a **** they do. Than, I definitely would stay at my safe focus and don’t thro away the fanbase..

 

[Dave A]

1. The vid is from march. Since then, it really got much better and surely it evolves more over the next month. Nearly every AAA title nowadays sucked ad beginning, no news.

Do you have a source for this? From my experience it’s categorically false that most AAA games suck at the beginning. Some do, most don’t.

2. For comparison FH5. What did they change to FH4? They put inside expeditions and a bit better lightning, which GT7 makes better and it’s crossgen still, too. A nearly empty map with huge problems to beginning. And 3 years of development.

The entire map, having different weather biomes on the map, added some new cars, added the artwork discoveries etc. The map alone is quite an upgrade on just 2 new tracks from GT Sport.

3. If they only had made GT7 for PS5-generation, the huge PS4-membership would have make a huge upset, too, when there are no PS5 consoles in the free market. So definitely a decision which is the best for the biggest part of playership.

Perhaps, but it would have resulted in a better game.

4. They speak about competitors. When we look on PS-base. It is Sonys fault that the competitors don’t take the competition seriously? Look at PC3.
They throw out a game, without understanding what a **** they do. Than, I definitely would stay at my safe focus and don’t thro away the fanbase..

Not sure what you’re trying to say here. But PD have certainly crapped on long time fans by claiming GT7 as the most complete to date when it comes to going back to its roots and giving us this.

 

[Nagaremono]

3. If they only had made GT7 for PS5-generation, the huge PS4-membership would have make a huge upset, too, when there are no PS5 consoles in the free market. So definitely a decision which is the best for the biggest part of playership.

Yes, maybe, but in hindsight, as a PS4 player I’d have been happy to stick with GTS a bit longer, especially if they’d updated it with some of the new cars that should’ve been in that game anyway (Carrera GT, Murcielago..) even as a paid dlc pack.

I could’ve watched the the GT7 launch debacle from a safe distance and saved myself some cash. Then pick up a ps5 when they’re easier to find along with a (cheap) copy of GT7 in 2024 or so, when it’s finally an adequate game.

Pretty much sure GT7 on ps5 only would at least look a lot better.

 

[alex511]

Yes, maybe, but in hindsight, as a PS4 player I’d have been happy to stick with GTS a bit longer, especially if they’d updated it with some of the new cars that should’ve been in that game anyway (Carrera GT, Murcielago..) even as a paid dlc pack.

I could’ve watched the the GT7 launch debacle from a safe distance and saved myself some cash. Then pick up a ps5 when they’re easier to find along with a (cheap) copy of GT7 in 2024 or so, when it’s finally an adequate game.

Pretty much sure GT7 on ps5 only would at least look a lot better.

I think no one would say a PS5 exclusive would be not a better game.
I can understand, that they don’t have the free resources to work at two games to same time.
However, I know a guy, who only have a PS4 and don’t have the money actually to buy a PS5, and was very happy to be able to play GT7 from beginning. That’s an other position.

 

[Nuschel01]

Kaz this year get‘s 55 years old.

*65

Enthusia

I'd love to see that one make a comeback and give GT a run for its money, considering it had a very similar approach to a racing game compared to GT3/4.

 

[John_Marsten]

I’m gonna go back to drinking beer and building LEGO Optimus Prime. Toodles

Man, I love Lego. I'm 39 years old and bought my first Technic set 2 years ago. Since then, well, you know what happens.

Does the Optimus Prime set transform fully? if so, that is damn cool.

 

[cjsrt4]

Man, I love Lego. I'm 39 years old and bought my first Technic set 2 years ago. Since then, well, you know what happens.

Does the Optimus Prime set transform fully? if so, that is damn cool.

lol I’m 39 also. I have a few Technic sets. I mainly stick to the Speed Champion ones. And yes, Optimus fully transforms.

 

[John Smith UK]

I think they should ditch him, the game has taken 5 years to make, missed the PS5 launch, the faults from earlier versions of the game are still here, the poster who said he has compulsive lying disorder is correct - GT7 is the multiplayer of GTSport and the rest from GT 5 and 6 cobbled together in a half arsed manner - I’m not a fan of him and believe the game does have a future without him at the helm - look At the active player numbers - on the Playtracker website it suggest GT7 is a 3 out of 10 for active players compared to total number of players and copies sold.
as of 20 mins ago there were live active players totalling 188,139 playing - sony haven’t published total sales for the game but assume at least 1 million copies sold then that’s 18%, if it’s 2 million the half that

 

[Sarajevo89]

I just get this feel game is semi-forgotten/abandoned while intention was to be live service but they never committed enough to it or just lacked skill/support. Still love the game and series but it should've been so much more in 2022.

 

[Hamisxa]

I think they should ditch him, the game has taken 5 years to make, missed the PS5 launch, the faults from earlier versions of the game are still here, the poster who said he has compulsive lying disorder is correct - GT7 is the multiplayer of GTSport and the rest from GT 5 and 6 cobbled together in a half arsed manner - I’m not a fan of him and believe the game does have a future without him at the helm - look At the active player numbers - on the Playtracker website it suggest GT7 is a 3 out of 10 for active players compared to total number of players and copies sold.
as of 20 mins ago there were live active players totalling 188,139 playing - sony haven’t published total sales for the game but assume at least 1 million copies sold then that’s 18%, if it’s 2 million the half that

Well we never can tell can we. It is always what the social tells us. For all we know the team wanted to go a different direction than he originally wanted and settled in the middle ground. Now not sure on that but it's a bit odd he has made every single GT game and only Sport and 7 are different than others. Sounds like management responded to Forza having the Auction House back

 

[John_Marsten]

lol I’m 39 also. I have a few Technic sets. I mainly stick to the Speed Champion ones. And yes, Optimus fully transforms.

I might have to look into getting that one! I started out with Technic and bought all the large sets from the 2018 through to 2021 catalogue, but I've since branched out and bought the Titanic and Grand Piano.

The Titanic set is seriously incredible, an absolute behemoth of a set. It looks so good.

 

[Samus]

Well we never can tell can we. It is always what the social tells us. For all we know the team wanted to go a different direction than he originally wanted and settled in the middle ground. Now not sure on that but it's a bit odd he has made every single GT game and only Sport and 7 are different than others. Sounds like management responded to Forza having the Auction House back

That's the thing though, GT Sport is not different. It just had parts of the game removed. The core of GT Sport already existed in GT6, it's called Quick Match. Sure, they added championships and a rating system but they didn't substantially change the game, just put a fancy new paint job on one part of it and got rid of the rest of it.

Then for GT7 they didn't touch the Sport Mode and threw back in some of the things they removed.

 

[alex511]

I think they should ditch him, the game has taken 5 years to make, missed the PS5 launch, the faults from earlier versions of the game are still here, the poster who said he has compulsive lying disorder is correct - GT7 is the multiplayer of GTSport and the rest from GT 5 and 6 cobbled together in a half arsed manner - I’m not a fan of him and believe the game does have a future without him at the helm - look At the active player numbers - on the Playtracker website it suggest GT7 is a 3 out of 10 for active players compared to total number of players and copies sold.
as of 20 mins ago there were live active players totalling 188,139 playing - sony haven’t published total sales for the game but assume at least 1 million copies sold then that’s 18%, if it’s 2 million the half that

It seems, Kaz nearly has a legend state at Sony.
Hulst last year said, Polyphony makes the best racing simulations of the world, Ryan in interviews was very lucky about the Gran Turismo series and Kaz,
we dont' forget he's vice president of sony interactive, so he definitly have power in the company und surely have connections as japanese to sony company headquarter.
Conclusion I see noone who would or could make him rush.

 

[Dave A]

It seems, Kaz nearly has a legend state at Sony.
Hulst last year said, Polyphony makes the best racing simulations of the world, Ryan in interviews was very lucky about the Gran Turismo series and Kaz,
we dont' forget he's vice president of sony interactive, so he definitly have power in the company und surely have connections as japanese to sony company headquarter.
Conclusion I see noone who would or could make him rush.

You're quite right, I don't think he is going anywhere short of himself choosing to do so. Personally I think the series could benefit from it in many ways, though I do appreciate what he brought to the racing genre, I just think he's too focused on his own ideas these days rather than just making a damn good game.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I would be interested to see what happens if someone else is in charge.