GT and Kaz
- Thread starter alex511
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- GTP_Nuschel
The game isn't even half a year old... and GTS' major updates only really started at that point iirc.
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- voodoovaj
PD is just a name. They are Sony.
The big players all operate similarly. They have some dedicated teams, but for the most part, they have central locations where staff is moved around as needed. The "As needed" part is key.
The fans buy GT with next to no new features to sell it. We buy it because we figure that, in the years between versions, something good has happened. But, in reality, nothing really happens.
GT requires very little to be successful, and that means a big profit margin. Manpower is the largest expense in a game, so the fewer people that are dedicated to it, the more money Sony makes. So, what we see as a "problem" is actually a huge benefit to Sony.
- 151
- United Kingdom
You make valid points and as long as the money pours in then Sony will keep letting him do as he likes but consider the state of the video game market - pandemic over players are deserting the big name titles such as this and call of duty (Down 50%yr in yr). Sony still can’t provide enough PS5s to meet demand, but if you could get one what is the killer game that you have to play that demands a PS5 or Xbox X to be honest.
GT7 is a mish mash of previous releases and because Kaz has his own views on what good racing is then I suspect GT will be a marmite game - you love it or hate it - for me I’m the latter now, spent too much on the game, the grinding is just stupid, the in game purchases outrageous and because enough people play - their is no desire or effort to fix the penalty system which is not a good one
i think he has to go the sooner the better
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- xmalcolmpowderx
That was GT5, and the answer was probably mostly just wages over 5 years of development time.
With 12 million copies sold, plus 5.5 million for just the prologue, they still would've easily made a profit though.
Also, "the last game was pretty crummy in this regard as well" isn't the best defence, even if it were true. Things are supposed to be getting better, PD taking on more staff and outsourcing. Reality is they've got worse.
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Are you sure? Because that'd be quite the coincidence, since GT5 is known to have cost $60-$80M.
Gran Turismo 5 sporting $60 million budget
Polyphony Digital head Kazunori Yamauchi reveals next year's sprawling racing simulator cost nearly three times as much as Killzone 2.
I really can't see how GT7 could have cost that much, when it was in development for far less time and is basically a patch of GTS. Even with inflation.
The definition of racing sims alters for different people & markets. Gran Turismo & Forza Motorsport pretty much stand alone and dominate that area of the sim market.
A handful of titles like Project Cars & (to a lesser degree) Grid have tried to get a piece of the broader pie. But both have gone by the wayside. Upcoming titles seem to either be going the open world route (Test Drive) or licensed to a particular series (WEC, WRC, BTCC, Indycar).
The only other staples are the F1, NFS & Mario Kart franchises. Moving forward I only see Gran Turismo & Forza grabbing more mindshare and more of the driving market. Simply because Sony & MS will be investing tens of millions into said franchises. While trying to mold them into GAAS.
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- 320
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- xIX_CJ83_XIx
- xIX_CJ83_XIx
That’s a lot for a racing game, but nowhere near the biggest. I think CP 2077 was somewhere around 200-300 million. I wanna say Star Citizen is up there too. Regardless, I can’t see where all the money went either. Probably paying a few million on private security for Sarah….
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I don’t know - think about this, it was in development since at least 2017 so 5 years between GT7 and Sport, it was meant to be a PS5 exclusive but late in the day PS4 version was added to the roster Which wasn’t part of the plan until PS5 availability meant the game would not recover it’s costs unless each PS5 player bought a few copies - I’m with you 100% - I don’t see that cost in any way reflected in the game that has been released but things never get cheaper and Sony have very creative accountants I’m sureAre you sure? Because that'd be quite the coincidence, since GT5 is known to have cost $60-$80M.
Gran Turismo 5 sporting $60 million budget
Polyphony Digital head Kazunori Yamauchi reveals next year's sprawling racing simulator cost nearly three times as much as Killzone 2.www.gamespot.com
I really can't see how GT7 could have cost that much, when it was in development for far less time and is basically a patch of GTS. Even with inflation.
Scaff
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- ScaffUK
No such qualifier was included, as such the addition of one is moving the goalposts. Hulst said "making the best driving simulation games in the world", focusing in the driving area of simulation, using his exact words as the benchmark, he is simply wrong.
You seem to be conflating sales/users with quality of simulation, that's inaccurate as it wasn't best 'selling/most popular sim', but 'best driving simulation'.
The Macarena has spent more weeks at No. 1 than any Beatles track, doesn't make it better music. That's not counting the fact that both Forza Motorsport and GT have been losing sales/players for quite a while now (go check when the last time PD/Sony actually put out sales numbers for a GT title, it's been quite a while, preferring to inflate the numbers over sales with 'player' count)!
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- voodoovaj
Creative accounting for sure, and it seems they are more interested in the appearance of AAA than actually delivering AAA.
Does each new car cost $500million to make? Doubtful. The PS5 version is not a complete rewrite. The budget definitely is not reflected in the finished product given that most of this product can trace itself back at least 15 years.
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- 151
- United Kingdom
Hulst stated “Polyphony Digital is such an important part of the PlayStation family, making the best driving simulation games in the world”.
I completely agree with him.
He isn’t singling out any one element. He’s discussing the product as a whole. With a plethora of sim options, on multiple platforms, GT7 is the one I choose. Because it is (IMO) the best package in the sim market. Driving feel and intuitiveness, car/track authenticity, tuning, weather simulation. It delivers what I want in a title.
I will certainly take an interest in future titles that focus on a particular series. But I think the days are gone when we see serious rivals to Gran Turismo & Forza Motorsport.
When it comes to crash physics and the nuts & bolts of setting up an authentic race weekend. Sure, GT7 is more on the arcade side. As for driving physics. These days you can switch back & forth between GT7, ACC, AMS2, iRacing, hit the same markers, set the same laptimes.
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Scaff
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- ScaffUK
Ah so it's confirmation bias at play, figured as much.
The fact he was specifically talking about driving simulation and GT has significant issues with its FFB, tyre model, aero model, and physics model is something that you just ignore. Got it.
Once again, sales and player numbers don't equal simulation accuracy.
Hitting markers and lap times do not equal similar physics or FFB models at all, I could fire up GT4 and do the exact same, doesn't mean that GT4's physics are a match to RF2 or AMS's
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- xIX_CJ83_XIx
- xIX_CJ83_XIx
While I'll agree that GT does some things better than most current sims on the market. That's mainly due to the massive budget they get. In the end it's still not a sim. Forza is even further away. T10 even calls their games "simcade". I prefer ACC, and even that is not a sim compared to iRacing. AMS, R-Factor and iRacing are in their own category when it comes to simulation.
ICEYOU3
(Banned)
- 2,031
- Selatapura, Usea
*Simlite
Would be a better term, the handling might not be the most accurate but it certainly doesn't handle like any arcade game I've ever played lol
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- xIX_CJ83_XIx
- xIX_CJ83_XIx
The fact that you can win an entire race by riding the walls on Tokyo, or set a world record on Nordschleife when all 4 tires are on the dirt/grass 30% of the time, tells me otherwise. Simcade or Arcade Simulation is exactly what it is. It's not just handling that puts it in that category. The damage model is also non existent.
- 293
Since GT5, Kaz has shown he has absolutely no vision for what GT should be.
The "creative vision" is some PR ******** that people keep repeating for years, even though GT has lost its leading place for years now.
GT7 shows no vision: the game is a succession of races with a terrible terrible IA...and the online component puts all the weight on the players -who have to adapt to all the shortcomings of the game- instead of proposing a smooth, original and inspired online mode.
Kaz and PD still live in a world where internet does not exist...they have proven many times that they are stuck in the past (just like their cars list)...
Kaz needs to let go and pass the franchise to someone who knows where to take the series.
I am pretty sure there is a cultural dimension in the way GT is going straight towards the wall...and Kaz just won't do anything to save it, won't change its so-called "philosophy" (or lack of actually)...
To me GT has always been a tech driven franchise: PD pushed the technical boundaries... not the creative ones. We have as many cars as the engine can push, TOD if the engine can, Weather if the engine can, interiors of the team has had enough time, rolling starts because the engine might not be able to deal with too many cars on certain tracks, etc...
They were talking about adaptative tesselation, nits, future-proof models (which actually were not) etc... but what about the fun? The tyres engine? The tracks accuracy? The sounds? The IA? The philosophy guiding the creative decisions?
The only philosophy i get from GT7 is MTX all the way....
Seabass and Konami are killing Pro Evolution soccer.
Watch as Sony is killing GT now.
The "creative vision" is some PR ******** that people keep repeating for years, even though GT has lost its leading place for years now.
GT7 shows no vision: the game is a succession of races with a terrible terrible IA...and the online component puts all the weight on the players -who have to adapt to all the shortcomings of the game- instead of proposing a smooth, original and inspired online mode.
Kaz and PD still live in a world where internet does not exist...they have proven many times that they are stuck in the past (just like their cars list)...
Kaz needs to let go and pass the franchise to someone who knows where to take the series.
I am pretty sure there is a cultural dimension in the way GT is going straight towards the wall...and Kaz just won't do anything to save it, won't change its so-called "philosophy" (or lack of actually)...
To me GT has always been a tech driven franchise: PD pushed the technical boundaries... not the creative ones. We have as many cars as the engine can push, TOD if the engine can, Weather if the engine can, interiors of the team has had enough time, rolling starts because the engine might not be able to deal with too many cars on certain tracks, etc...
They were talking about adaptative tesselation, nits, future-proof models (which actually were not) etc... but what about the fun? The tyres engine? The tracks accuracy? The sounds? The IA? The philosophy guiding the creative decisions?
The only philosophy i get from GT7 is MTX all the way....
Seabass and Konami are killing Pro Evolution soccer.
Watch as Sony is killing GT now.
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ICEYOU3
(Banned)
- 2,031
- Selatapura, Usea
*Simlite
All racing experiences have their exploits (even AC) that doesn't necessarily make them "simcade". At the end of the day they're all video games trying to imitate real-life. You want Damage? Play the sImCad3 called 'Wreckfest' most sim players don't care about that stuff.
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