GT and Kaz

[cjsrt4]

@Scaff

What's the matter? Can't answer the question yourself?

 

[Scaff]

What's the difference in calling something a simlite vs a simcade?

@Scaff

My post on this thread pretty much covers my view on it, and why it's a bit of a meaningless term and distinction.

Your personal opinion on Simcade so far?

Dear GTPlanet forum users Here is my personal opinion on this sub-genre of driving game, to me, it's great for those who are new to driving games that feature photo-realistic graphics (F1, Gran Turismo & Forza Motorsport series) so the players can get hang onto the physics before they may go...

www.gtplanet.net

As does this video:

 

[cjsrt4]

So what I took from this is that it's 100% opinion based (just like my opinion on the matter). The OP uses the term simcade and calls the games I consider a sim to be "hardcore sim". Most of you people are just mad because it has the word "cade" in the name. Replace it with lite. I don't care. You're still forgetting that it has "sim" in the name to begin with.

 

[Nathan88]

Ah so it's confirmation bias at play, figured as much.

The fact he was specifically talking about driving simulation and GT has significant issues with its FFB, tyre model, aero model, and physics model is something that you just ignore. Got it.

I’ve played every sim on the market for the past two decades or more. I’m speaking from a position of knowledge on the subject. I always have a wry smile when I see people attach labels and claim a gulf between such similar titles.

Hulst was plainly not talking about the intricacies of the physics model on a PlayStation blog post. Rather GT’s position in, what is know as, the driving simulation market on consoles. We all know some in the PC sim community looked down on such titles. However, since GTS the driving experience is much closer to the best in PC racing. That has improved further in GT7 and taken to another level with dynamic weather simulation.

Every sim has its own quirks and foibles. Which is why I can point you to YouTubers who swear by iRacing or ACC. But slam something like AMS2. We are talking fine margins and opinions changes with a revision to the tyre model or differential.
They all fall under the same sim banner. GT7, purely from a driving experience, can be ranked alongside them.

Once again, sales and player numbers don't equal simulation accuracy.

No one said they did. It’s about delivery the best overall package in the simulation market. Of which the two in question, Gran Turismo & Forza Motorsport, will continue to dominate with ever more investment. With each iteration we’ll see greater refinement, features, content, and a more compelling experience. While also having to cater for the more casual player.

The PC space is like the Wild West with new sims cropping up. Diluting the playerbase. If you removed the UI’s you’d often struggle to tell which is which.

It pains me to see AMS2 struggling (313 ingame right now) as that’s the one title that has attempted a broader focus. iRacing doesn’t appeal with it’s online racing focus (101 ingame). ACC is cool but I need more than GT racing (2,713 ingame). AC has the most life in it thanks to the modding community (7,460 ingame). For comparison Forza Horizon 5 has 10,487 players (PC only and obviously an arcade game).

Hitting markers and lap times do not equal similar physics or FFB models at all, I could fire up GT4 and do the exact same, doesn't mean that GT4's physics are a match to RF2 or AMS's

GT4 is not remotely comparable to GT7 in terms car performance, track accuracy, and overall physics. I can learn a car/track combo in AMS2 and jump straight into GT7. As I did with Watkins Glen.

 

[Scaff]

I’ve played every sim on the market for the past two decades or more. I’m speaking from a position of knowledge on the subject. I always have a wry smile when I see people attach labels and claim a gulf between such similar titles.

I've more and can add in 25 years of training within the motor industry, including teaching vehicle dynamics, driver skills and logging more hours on tracks and proving grounds than I can recall.

I've not only the experience of the games, but also real world comparisons.

Differences exist between these titles, it's objectively demonstrable.

Hulst was plainly not talking about the intricacies of the physics model on a PlayStation blog post. Rather GT’s position in, what is know as, the driving simulation market on consoles. We all know some in the PC sim community looked down on such titles. However, since GTS the driving experience is much closer to the best in PC racing. That has improved further in GT7 and taken to another level with dynamic weather simulation.

Odd then that he never came close to using those words, you're adding in a massive amount of assumption. I'm using only the words he actually used.

Every sim has its own quirks and foibles. Which is why I can point you to YouTubers who swear by iRacing or ACC. But slam something like AMS2. We are talking fine margins and opinions changes with a revision to the tyre model or differential.
They all fall under the same sim banner. GT7, purely from a driving experience, can be ranked alongside them.

GT7 from a driving experience is behind them. It's still getting self aligning torque wrong, it's load transfer still has issues, its got zero track surface progression, its drying line is pre baked, tyre progression off, vintage rubber diesnt exist, nor does tyre pressure modelling, etc.

Take one drive train, FWD, lift off oversteer is still inaccurate, its modeling of LSDs off resulting in far too little front end grip and a lack of rear mobility. This results in not only FWD road cars being off, but race spec cars behaving nothing like they do in reality (and in this regard is speak from personal experience).

Now no title on the market gets it all correct, but a clear difference exists between GT7 and the titles who's sole focus is on physics accuracy.

GT7s approach to physics makes it a great introduction to sim racing, but it's still a way behind the best titles around in terms if physics and FFB.

No one said they did. It’s about delivery the best overall package in the simulation market. Of which the two in question, Gran Turismo & Forza Motorsport, will continue to dominate with ever more investment. With each iteration we’ll see greater refinement, features, content, and a more compelling experience. While also having to cater for the more casual player.

The PC space is like the Wild West with new sims cropping up. Diluting the playerbase. If you removed the UI’s you’d often struggle to tell which is which.

It pains me to see AMS2 struggling (313 ingame right now) as that’s the one title that has attempted a broader focus. iRacing doesn’t appeal with it’s online racing focus (101 ingame). ACC is cool but I need more than GT racing (2,713 ingame). AC has the most life in it thanks to the modding community (7,460 ingame). For comparison Forza Horizon 5 has 10,487 players (PC only and obviously an arcade game).

No it's not about sales or player count, but you then focus on nothing but player count?

GT4 is not remotely comparable to GT7 in terms car performance, track accuracy, and overall physics. I can learn a car/track combo in AMS2 and jump straight into GT7. As I did with Watkins Glen.

Yet you can still hit the same markers and same lap times in GT4, that's the point. Alone they are terrible measures of a physics engines accuracy.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Hulst stated “Polyphony Digital is such an important part of the PlayStation family, ....

Because they invest relatively little and make tons. That happens when you need to reinvest extremely little. It's the same reason EA Sports is such a huge business. The big difference is that EA does new things annually. GT does them every 4-5 years.

HUGE money maker.


Let's ignore that with every iteration they have a physics...quirk...Like right now. Cars with a lifted suspension are faster around a track than a car with a proper suspension set up, which in a proper "simulation" of any repute should result in cars barrel rolling off into the weeds with pretty much every turn due to their massive instability.

Unless they've accurately modelled trophy truck suspension


But, they are correct in that it's the one sim racer that is relatively accessible.

I've more and can add in 25 years of training within the motor industry, including teaching driving dynamics, driver skills and logging more hours on tracks and proving grounds than I can recall.

I've not only the experience of the games, but also real world comparisons.

Differences exist between these titles, it's objectively demonstrable.

...

 

[Samus]

With each iteration we’ll see greater refinement, features, content, and a more compelling experience.

Have you played GT7? Because that really isn't happening. They've been making broadly the same game for 25 years.

 

[Imari]

What's the difference in calling something a simlite vs a simcade?

People get butthurt about having the word "arcade" associated with Gran Turismo in any way whatsoever.

 

[Cayit]

I would say Kaz needs a break!
Someone else should get his position to just see what else is possible with GT(7) series...

 

[alex511]

I would say Kaz needs a break!
Someone else should get his position to just see what else is possible with GT(7) series...

Kaz life is making racing games. When he stops, he stops forever. I know such perfectionistic guys, they cant make brakes.

 

[RobertHammer]

Kaz might be over his head but i would keep him but i would call help from Bungie to help the communication and possibly push more content or even MP side of things