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That's great news. Pirelli is jumping into everything now.
GT Racing - GT1, GT3, Blancpain Endurance Series & National GT SeriesSports Cars
- Thread starter Speedster502
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Wow, is this thing still on? The series is supposed to start in two months, but it's only got twelve cars ...
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The costs in GTE are spiraling, so it is entirely possible.
The reason why they went to GT3 was twofold; cost was one, and the other to fulfill a dream of Stephane Ratels, chairman of the SRO. He wanted to have a similar two-car-per-team deal to F1, and still have a minimum of 16 cars on the grid. Only GT3 could supply that variety of makes.
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I like the way Mr. Ratels thinks. But will it really happen? They would probably have to scrounge up some of the older GT3 cars in order for it to go through... cars that are being used less and less.
The Corvette, Alpina B6 and Ford GT come to mind. There was also the Dodge Viper Competition Coupe in the mix for a time.
Clarification Edit: When I speak of the cars, I refer to the entirety of racing bodies that use FIA GT3 cars such as the Blancpain Endurance Series, ADAC GT Masters, VLN and others.
EDIT: After looking at the list of currently approved FIA GT3 cars, it's entirely possible that we could see the grid that Ratels wants.
Aston Martin Vantage GT3
Audi R8 LMS Ultra
BMW Z4 GT3
Ferrari 458 Italia GT3
Ford GT GT3
Lamborghini Gallardo LP600 GT3
Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG GT3
Porsche 911 GT3 R
McLaren MP4-12C GT3
Nissan GT-R Nismo
There's also a Camaro being developed for GT usage and the Alpina, Viper and Corvette are alive and well in the ADAC GT Masters... so is there a possibility of them making an appearance as well? Still a hefty field without these four. The Ford GT might be questionable, too. With Matech having gone bankrupt, Marc VDS might look for a more lively supply of cars. It's a shame though since it'd be nice to see the Ford GT's running around with everyone else.
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That Ferrari is good looking 
Stavelot
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Only GT3 cars will be allowed, no 'GT3+' cars, no GT2 cars and no downgraded GT1 cars. Porsche has said they won't support a GT1 team, JRM doesn't have the money to run a GT1 season again and Reiter won't run the Gallardo in GT1 for the same reason. Still only 12 cars on the grid....not enough unfortunately.
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I suppose there is always the chance that other teams will join - but the series suffered a lot when the likes of Marc VDS and Belgian Racing withdrew early on.
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Not saying I don't believe you, but I've bounced around on Google looking at links regarding the 2012 season both from the GT1 website and the FIA's website and they seem to contradict what you're saying.
Ratel says 2012 will be a unique mix of brands.
World Motor Sport Council press release regarding 2012 FIA events.
Again, not saying you're wrong, just saying that I'm not finding the evidence that what you say is correct. Care to share your sources and enlighten me? I give you the benefit of the doubt because the most recent of those two links was in September, so if things have changed, let us know.
Also, did Porsche say they will not support a GT1 program before or after GT3 cars entered the equation? I think it would be silly to be one of the world's greatest sports car brands and you decline to participate in one of what looks to be one of the world's greatest GT series' when you have an eligible car that's sitting right in front of you. It would make sense if they said they wouldn't participate when they never had a GT1 car to homologate.
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Believe me, it's only GT3 cars. And Porsche said they had no interest in the championship at all. But they can't stop a private team to enter if they want to.
Alpina was said to enter, but I don't think they will. YDAM has gone to ADAC, but so far they haven't said anything about the world championship. Maybe the parent team Fischer racing will have a go? The only possibility for Nissan to come about is - the way I see it - through RJN. Callaway have said that they are ready to support an entry if anyone would like run Corvettes. The GT3 Fords are a tad dubious, but who knows.
Stavelot
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This is the world of Ratel we're talking here.....those links from September were the thoughts at that time, since then GT1 cars were dumped to entice McLaren in, those original GT3 only regs were also meant to increase the sound of the cars, drop the ride height and add carbon brakes (GT3+ as it was nicknamed) but that was also dumped in favour of plain GT3 cars to try and fill a grid....do some more searching (the GT1 World site has got the latest news on it, have a read....).
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I'd like to preface this by saying that I have nothing against you, sir. I hope you can understand where I'm about to come from.
But I'm going to go against my normally reasonable opinions and say that I will not believe you. I simply, will not.
You've provided no evidence against mine to support your claim, thus I have no reason to simply take your word for it. Give me one, semi-credible link to peruse and I'll argue for your opinions 'til the end of the earth. Hell, it doesn't even have to be that! Just give me a much more detailed description other than "Believe me, that's not going to happen."
Until then, and in the sake of the spirit of educated discussion, I'm not going to simply believe you because you tell me to. I'm drawing the line.
I've only just learned who Ratel was today.
Well, I did like you said and went to the GT1 world website, skimmed for two seconds,
I found and browsed the archive and so far I've found this: Innovative Plans for 2012 Which doesn't make any mention about no longer modifying GT3 cars or the complete dis-use of GT1 cars. The rest of the articles seem to discuss recaps of the 2011 season, the 2011 season, the races, interviews with drivers or the article that I posted earlier. Since someone purported the claim that Mclaren's involvement was part of the reason the old GT1 cars would be disallowed, I read the announcement regarding Hexis and Mclaren teaming up for 2012. In that article the only mention they made regarding car specs was that Mclaren was happy that the GT1 championship was allowing GT3 cars, as they would not have been able to develop a GT1 version of the MP4. None of this goes against the current affairs of regulating a series with GT1 and modified GT3 cars. So I assume that the GT1 cars will still be allowed and the GT3 cars will still be modified.
Educate me. That's all I'm asking.
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Tired Tyres
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I'd take anything I read on the official GT1 website with a pinch of salt mate.
As someone who has followed this category for the last two years I can only say that I fully agree with what Stavelot is saying about it.
I suggest you listen to some of the Radio Le Mans podcasts over the last year or so if you want to know more.
As someone who has followed this category for the last two years I can only say that I fully agree with what Stavelot is saying about it.
I suggest you listen to some of the Radio Le Mans podcasts over the last year or so if you want to know more.
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Here you have the GT3 plans; http://www.planetlemans.com/2011/12/02/gt1-world-adopts-gt3-regulations-for-2012/
Stavelot
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I usually get all my info from contacts, radiolemans.com and dailysportscar.com, only one of those 3 are links I could put here (mostly to podcasts) as the people I know only talk to people they know and DSC is largely subscriber only content (which if you are a sportscar fan is worth getting a subscription to).
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This seems to be a reasonable statement. Now I would like proof that the GT1 website requires a pinch of salt. Where's a link that might contain something that would contradict something the website would say?
Also, before I spend- no, waste- several hours pouring over podcasts (it doesn't help that I never listen to podcasts for anything), why don't you point out one or two that contains something that suggests that using GT1 cars has been completely abandoned?
Finally a break through. It's a shame though, that nowhere in the article does it say that they won't be using GT1 cars. In fact that article is very, very similar to what I've been posting to show everyone that nobody has come out and said that GT1 cars are on the out and out. That may be the case! Don't get me wrong! But until there's proof that it's happening, until someone comes out and says that GT1 cars are toast and that GT3 cars won't be modified, then I have no reason to doubt that GT3 cars will be modified to participate next to their older and bigger brothers.
The article does make mention of many of the homologation's coming to an end for some of the GT1 cars, but without a concrete date or specifically mentioning any cars, it still leaves the door open for GT1 cars to participate.
Like I said earlier, it doesn't have to be a link. I'm just looking for more than a few lines of colorful proof-less convincing compared to what I've been getting. Granted, like any good argument or argumentative essay, it's made stronger with sources.
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Stavelot
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Lets use some logic....
-JRM would be running GT1 GTRs this season if the rules allowed it as Nissan would provide money to run the cars. As it stands they can only run the GT3 car, Nissan doesn't want to support that so they won't be running it as they have no budget for it.
-If GT1 cars were still allowed wouldn't All-Inkl run their 2 cars? The Murcie R-SV has alot more downforce than a SLS, not to mention they've spent the millions needed to purchase those 2 cars already.
-Young Driver has a pair of DBR9s ready and waiting to go for another season of GT1, their homologation will run out at the end of this year however. If GT1 cars were still allowed wouldn't they be running?
Pretty simple to connect the dots when an article says GT3 Only, there have been no GT1 cars entered so far and a number of knowledgable people have said exactly the same thing.....
-JRM would be running GT1 GTRs this season if the rules allowed it as Nissan would provide money to run the cars. As it stands they can only run the GT3 car, Nissan doesn't want to support that so they won't be running it as they have no budget for it.
-If GT1 cars were still allowed wouldn't All-Inkl run their 2 cars? The Murcie R-SV has alot more downforce than a SLS, not to mention they've spent the millions needed to purchase those 2 cars already.
-Young Driver has a pair of DBR9s ready and waiting to go for another season of GT1, their homologation will run out at the end of this year however. If GT1 cars were still allowed wouldn't they be running?
Pretty simple to connect the dots when an article says GT3 Only, there have been no GT1 cars entered so far and a number of knowledgable people have said exactly the same thing.....
Tired Tyres
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You linked this story earlier and don't see this in the second paragraph?
http://gt1world.com/news/article/innovative-plans-for-2012
http://radiolemans.0157.org/content/fia-world-council-december
The correct paragraph within that post
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This is all very logical, yes. Here's the thing though, it still doesn't mean the door is closed on GT1. No article has said GT3 Only. None. I've read them critically and they don't say it. Are GT3 cars the main topic? Yes. Will the field be strongly aimed at GT3 cars? Yes. Have they said it will only be GT3 cars? No, nothing has said that. Could all the teams show up in only GT3 cars? Yes, but that doesn't mean that the rules wouldn't still cater to the possibility of GT1 cars up until that point.
Logic does point to the teams using GT3 cars, of course! And for teams like All-Inkl and Hexis who want to be major players in the series, it makes sense for them to switch to GT3 cars, since those are the future. But say there's one or two teams that don't want to continue on past GT1? There's still the possibility that they could bring out their old GT1 cars to wring out every last mile on them that they can before the format goes extinct.
I did see that, and maybe I'm reading it too critically, but nowhere does it say that GT3 cars won't be modified nor GT1 cars will be disallowed. It makes the usage of GT1 cars look grim, but it never says "GT1 cars simply won't be permitted." To me, "sufficient" is not a final word. To me, "sufficient" says 'Hi, I'm Mr. Ratel and I want a field of larger makes and models. GT1 alone wont accomplish that dream so we're adding GT3 into the mix to make things larger.'
Ratel wants things larger, so using the GT1 format alone will not be sufficient enough. Here's a list of all the GT1 cars I could think of or find that have been raced in the last 4-5 years.
Saleen S7R
Corvette C6R
Aston Martin DBR9
Nissan GT-R GT1
Lamborghini Murciealgo R-GT
Maserati MC12
Ford GT Matech GT1
Considering that the Maserati and Saleen are disallowed makes that list two shorter. Then add in the fact that an unspecified few will have their homologations ending soon cuts down the list even more. Now when you look at all the GT3 cars that have been homologated or raced in GT3-style series over the past few years...
Ascari KZ1R GT3* Out of production, though still legal to participate in ADAC GT Masters, despite no entries.
Dodge Viper Competition Coupe* Participates in ADAC GT Masters
Corvette Z06.R* Homologation expired, still participates in regional series like GT Masters.
Ferrari F430 Scuderia GT3* Replaced with F458
Ferrari F458 GT3
Aston Martin Vantage GT3
Aston Martin DBSR9* Replaced with Vantage
Alpina B6 GT3* Homologation expired, still participates in GT3 spec national series like ADAC GT Masters.
Audi R8 LMS
BMW Z4 GT3
Ford GT Matech GT3* Future questionable with Matech bankruptcy.
Lamborghini Gallardo LP600 GT3
Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG GT3
Porsche 911 GT3 R
McLaren MPR-12C GT3
Nissan GT-R Nismo
Chevrolet Camaro GT* Still in development
Ford Mustang FR500GT* Homologation expired?
Mosler MT900 GT3* Was never homologated, but participated in various GT3 spec national series.
Jaguar XKR GT3* Homologation expired
Morgan Aero GT3* Homologation expired
Lotus Exige GT3* Homologation expired
Lotus Evora GT3* Still in development?
Maserati Trofeo GT3* Homologation expired
And you can see how Ratel's eyes would make GT3 the logical choice. But if I were Ratel, I'd still want to have a transition year for my teams that want to make the most of their investment in GT1 cars.
To me, this is so far the most convincing and ironic piece of evidence that would suggest that only GT3 cars will be the only ones permitted.
Since every manufacturer that enters a GT1 car also makes a GT3 car. Not to mention they're wrong, as there are a few GT2/E cars that have not participated in any other series. The Panoz Abruzzi, Jaguar XKR (had a GT3 variant but was scrapped), and Lotus Evora all have GTE variants and do not currently have a GT3 variant. This also says to me that the trouble of balancing cars might not be a task that SRO will want to perform.
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Let's say I own a car. I use the car a lot and I like it. It's fast, has a nice paint job and interior and I've put some money into it. But, (we'll replace monetary economy with fuel economy, just so there's no confusion on why I own two cars in a bad economy) my current car is getting bad fuel mileage, so I go and buy a more fuel efficient car to use alongside my old car. People ask me what I'm going to be doing with my old car and I tell them that I'm going to be driving it along with my new car.
Some time goes by and people ask me about my new car and I tell them that I'm going to be driving it a lot, because of the fuel economy. I never mention my old car in the conversation, just that I'm driving my new car a lot and I like it. I figure that everyone knows I'm still driving my old car, no one is asking about it so I don't talk about, even though I'm still using it because it's fast and nice and every once and awhile it's nice to take it out on occasion.
It means absolutely nothing when they say they're going to be using GT3 regulations. Nothing. Because they already said they would be using the regulations. Now, when they say they'll be exclusively using GT3 regulations... then we'll have reason to believe that there won't be any GT1 cars showing up to the party. When they say they won't be using GT1 regulations then we'll have reason to believe that GT1 won't be showing up to the party.
