GT Sport beta physics discussion - Read the First Post Before Replying

[lancia delta hf]

I would love Polyphony forever if they'd include the option to remove wheel/hands at any given FOV. It's pretty neccessary.

It really should be in every racing game. It makes a big difference and it's the only way to satisfy every player.

 

[praiano63]

I am tall, so there is no way with my PlaySeat rig to raise the wheel (or lower the chair) enough to simulate real world. In my Miata, my seat is mounted 5mm off the floor and as far back as I can get. It also has a seat with about 25 degrees of tip back. I just can't get that out of my PlaySeat. With my current set up, if I lowered the TV to line up with the wheel, I would be looking toward the floor.

My seat , Brasilian brand extreme racing , is also a bit too much vertical in my opinion. When i´ve seen the laid down F1 models seats, i´ve raised the front of my stand putting around 20 cm higher with a wooden box under the pedals.
It was ok for me, comfortable and pleasant to drive. Perhaps it will be a solution for your size .... i´m 182 cm, 6 feets.

It seems that your real life bolid miata is also a very low top car. Did you think about this ????

Have a good sunday my friend.

 

[Motor City Hami]

My seat , Brasilian brand extreme racing , is also a bit too much vertical in my opinion. When i´ve seen the laid down F1 models seats, i´ve raised the front of my stand putting around 20 cm higher with a wooden box under the pedals.
It was ok for me, comfortable and pleasant to drive. Perhaps it will be a solution for your size .... i´m 182 cm, 6 feets.

It seems that your real life bolid miata is also a very low top car. Did you think about this ????

Have a good sunday my friend.

This is exactly how my Miata sounds now.

 

[diesel97]

This is what I use with my DXRacer wheelstand and I look right over the top of my steering wheel and I am 6 feet tall.https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0070NZ6G8/?tag=gtplanet-20

 

[daan]

Can we get back to talking about GTS Beta physics?

 

[PzR Slim]

No problem. I'm still of the opinion that they are pretty terrible at the moment. With the hand holding that appears to be going on the worst offender. I really hope that gets removed before release and that the underlying physics engine without it is good enough. The tyre deformation we have seen looks really good graphically, I hope that is present in the physics engine as well.

 

[Haitauer]

Sorry for double post, but thought its better as its back on topic this one.

Was going through recent replays and noticed this. Look at the yaw and rear corner lifting on impact.. is this new? I think the impacts used to be flat.. i find the current physics engine promising - i think its just the grip levels that are messed up.

Any comments on this?

 

[freedom1104]

In a game like Assetto Corsa where you can both do that and adjust your cockpit seat position, I can place my real wheel where the virtual wheel is in the game. I sit 40ish inches from a 60" screen with an FOV of 35. The timing of the virtual wheel and shifting is never in sync with my real actions and it's nothing more than a distraction. Getting rid of it helps with immersion for me. It likely also helps slightly with frame rates as well although I've never tested it

I really don´t understand why taking out the wheel and pilot hands. What positive point does it bring in your driving sensation or performance ? I´m just asking, not saying it´s better or worst.

This is the answer

 

[Scaff]

Any comments on this?

Until they get rid of whatever is causing the 'hand of god' effect its impossible to tell if its good or not.

Its similar to the tyre deformation and gravel kick-up; right now I can't consider any of them to be more than nice to look at, as I've come across no actual evidence of them being a produce of the actual physics engine at work.

This is the answer

Its a nice rig, but I must confess the main thing it did was remind me of how much I dislike 'rally' in GT.

 

[Motor City Hami]

I have read through this full thread and a question bounces around inside my head. How different are the GT Sport physics to GT6 physics? Has anyone played the two games back to back and compared tuning? What improvements are you seeing and how significant are the improvements (if any)?

 

[suprajef]

I have read through this full thread and a question bounces around inside my head. How different are the GT Sport physics to GT6 physics? Has anyone played the two games back to back and compared tuning? What improvements are you seeing and how significant are the improvements (if any)?

Tuning and drive ability is better on gt sport than gt6, camber actually works

 

[EDK]

I have read through this full thread and a question bounces around inside my head. How different are the GT Sport physics to GT6 physics? Has anyone played the two games back to back and compared tuning? What improvements are you seeing and how significant are the improvements (if any)?

GT Sport features considerably more grip than GT6. I think this is mainly down to a significantly different tire model, and the tire selections that are being forced on us with the available race events.

I would say if you had a sliding scale with GT4 at one end and GT6 at the other, the grip spectrum is cheated 50% from center toward GT4.

As Jeff said, tuning is significantly improved. You don't have to use a bunch of tricks to get the cars to work. The changes you make to adjust specific car characteristics make logical sense. Everything works markedly better, all adjustments you make to the car actually have an effect.

Ride Height and Camber are great examples of that. Max rear and min front ride height will make the car loose/better to turn in, and of course you don't have to go to those extremes. There are degrees in between.

Higher front camber improves turn in. Higher rear camber improves rear grip for corner exit, and balancing those two significantly impacts car behavior.

LSD changes are probably the most noticeable, you really need to have those settings dialed in to get the car to work. And the correct settings by drive train vary significantly, while the required changes again make logical sense.

 

[bokimoto]

i agree with jeff & EDK, but would just add that in the previous version, v1.04, the grip on tarmac, but most notably off, was almost identical to GT6, maybe even more strict.

The v1.05 update obliterated that similarity, it has way too much grip now, and you can drive on grass without worry.
We can only hope it's just a beta experiment, and the release will revert to the more realistic grip levels.

 

[EDK]

i agree with jeff & EDK, but would just add that in the previous version, v1.04, the grip on tarmac, but most notably off, was almost identical to GT6, maybe even more strict.

The v1.05 update obliterated that similarity, it has way too much grip now, and you can drive on grass without worry.
We can only hope it's just a beta experiment, and the release will revert to the more realistic grip levels.

I think for WRS, we have a tendency to run with the lowest amount of grip you can get away with on a particular combo.

So in that sense, I think this game is messing with me a bit, along with being able to tune and optimize all the cars, which is another aspect we rarely use.

I feel like the Gr.3 cars have been low grip the whole time, and that the braking distances have gotten longer, even with the most recent update.

But specifically the race tires on Gr.4 cars definitely make you feel like you are on rails, even more than ever.

I suspect if we had N300 cars on comfort tires and Gr.4 on Sports tires, it might provide a different view.

And also generally think the off track model is currently similar to the default "Low" grip on track edge and off track setting for GT6.

But just like SRF, I am not a fan of having to toggle and monitor a bunch of settings to make it more realistic or less realistic. I wish they would just stick to using on car aids to make it approachable for less experienced racers, and make it obvious when those are being used.

 

[ScottPuss20]

GT Sport features considerably more grip than GT6. I think this is mainly down to a significantly different tire model, and the tire selections that are being forced on us with the available race events.

I would say if you had a sliding scale with GT4 at one end and GT6 at the other, the grip spectrum is cheated 50% from center toward GT4.

As Jeff said, tuning is significantly improved. You don't have to use a bunch of tricks to get the cars to work. The changes you make to adjust specific car characteristics make logical sense. Everything works markedly better, all adjustments you make to the car actually have an effect.

Ride Height and Camber are great examples of that. Max rear and min front ride height will make the car loose/better to turn in, and of course you don't have to go to those extremes. There are degrees in between.

Higher front camber improves turn in. Higher rear camber improves rear grip for corner exit, and balancing those two significantly impacts car behavior.

LSD changes are probably the most noticeable, you really need to have those settings dialed in to get the car to work. And the correct settings by drive train vary significantly, while the required changes again make logical sense.

Well in this case it seems that GT Sport is heading in the Project Cars direction, where the cars react more realistically to tuning. This is great news for tuners because they won't have to use outrageous set ups which don't work in reality.

 

[PzR Slim]

I think for WRS, we have a tendency to run with the lowest amount of grip you can get away with on a particular combo.

So in that sense, I think this game is messing with me a bit, along with being able to tune and optimize all the cars, which is another aspect we rarely use.

I feel like the Gr.3 cars have been low grip the whole time, and that the braking distances have gotten longer, even with the most recent update.

But specifically the race tires on Gr.4 cars definitely make you feel like you are on rails, even more than ever.

I suspect if we had N300 cars on comfort tires and Gr.4 on Sports tires, it might provide a different view.

And also generally think the off track model is currently similar to the default "Low" grip on track edge and off track setting for GT6.

But just like SRF, I am not a fan of having to toggle and monitor a bunch of settings to make it more realistic or less realistic. I wish they would just stick to using on car aids to make it approachable for less experienced racers, and make it obvious when those are being used.

A million times this! I'm not sure anyone really knows where the physics model is at the moment. They should go with a very solid physics model; and then add layers of aids that people can knowingly choose to use. The vast majority of other racing game devs go this route. I've no idea why PD haven't. I'm just hoping that this is all because we are still in beta and come release it will all make sense. I have significant doubts about that however.

 

[Haitauer]

A million times this! I'm not sure anyone really knows where the physics model is at the moment. They should go with a very solid physics mode; and then add a layers of aids that people can knowingly choose to use. The vast majority of other racing game devs go this route. I've no idea why PD haven't. I'm just hoping that this is all because we are still in beta and come release it will all make sense. I have significant doubts about that however.

Im pretty sure the sport -mode will be some what forced for the BOP to work, but thankfully it looks like we're getting a classic online mode also. Thats where i put my hopes.

 

[marcvic]

How cool would it be for Gran Turismo to add the rain line sensation to the game? It needs to provide a lap time advantage in heavy rain and needs to change as rain fall changes. We would know it has been programmed into the game if the driving line would change from the racing line to the wet line during your session.

Speaking of rain, I'm still anxious about whether we get rain/night racing at launch. I Don't think PD have commented since The Dynamic Weather Article and The Red Bull Article? There was some night racing on Northern Isle in the PS Experience trailer, but that was classic GT exaggerated trailer graphics ; but I don't think there has been any rain footage at all in GT Sport.

The picture of the Corvette in the Red Bull Article gives a glimpse at how good night racing will look with GT Sport's graphics model.

 

[BrainsBush]

I Don't think PD have commented since The Dynamic Weather Article and The Red Bull Article?

I even think that PD hasn't communicate anything. Beta hype was great. Still would like to read some feedback about the goals and results of the beta. A lot of information we shared via this forum is 'learning on the job' and often starts with assumptions, speculation. Still mysterious quiet of the PD front. They could clarify a lot of questions we have. Also from a marketing perspective it would be wise to make us enthusiasts more part of the development by some kind of Q&A sessions. (or just pretend if we are part of something great)
You can say that this GTP community is just about 10% (??) of the total potential sales numbers but we could also be used as a stimulator as a kind of early adaptors. We also invest time in playing this beta.

To continue the speculation. After US and later EU now Asia joined the Beta. Add a couple of weeks and I assume we still will get a global online races. Longer time windows for racers to compete against players from other continents. Sounds nice BUT.....the longer the beta period the longer it takes for this game going gold. I think we agree a lot of work has to be done. And yes that can be done parallel with the beta period. Reading all the suggestions, also complaints (which can be helpful!) and uncertainties and this beta is already good but not finished and great yet.

For me personally I was very hyped and played this beta many many hours. Now it is becoming more of the same, not clear what and when will follow next. So I parked this beta in the garage for the time being. I will follow this forum and if anything interesting news has been announced I will be more then happy to rejoin.

==
Apologies for going completely off topic in this physics discussion. Physics improvement also very welcome. But I think PD is working hard on that and haven't let us fully take advantage of the possibilities yet (another assumption )

 

[marcvic]

I mean this view. Quite clearly wheel + hands removed as one can see the steering column..

Man, I hope this is a feature that can be added to GT Sport at some point; seems like removing the wheel/hands makes you pay more attention to weight transfer.

BTW that 370Z sounds really off in Assetto Corsa. Way too loud and raspy - The Z is more deep and throaty, especially inside the cockpit where the engine note is very muffled.

 

[marcvic]

I even think that PD hasn't communicate anything. Beta hype was great. Still would like to read some feedback about the goals and results of the beta. A lot of information we shared via this forum is 'learning on the job' and often starts with assumptions, speculation. Still mysterious quiet of the PD front. They could clarify a lot of questions we have. Also from a marketing perspective it would be wise to make us enthusiasts more part of the development by some kind of Q&A sessions. (or just pretend if we are part of something great)
You can say that this GTP community is just about 10% (??) of the total potential sales numbers but we could also be used as a stimulator as a kind of early adaptors. We also invest time in playing this beta.

To continue the speculation. After US and later EU now Asia joined the Beta. Add a couple of weeks and I assume we still will get a global online races. Longer time windows for racers to compete against players from other continents. Sounds nice BUT.....the longer the beta period the longer it takes for this game going gold. I think we agree a lot of work has to be done. And yes that can be done parallel with the beta period. Reading all the suggestions, also complaints (which can be helpful!) and uncertainties and this beta is already good but not finished and great yet.

For me personally I was very hyped and played this beta many many hours. Now it is becoming more of the same, not clear what and when will follow next. So I parked this beta in the garage for the time being. I will follow this forum and if anything interesting news has been announced I will be more then happy to rejoin.

==
Apologies for going completely off topic in this physics discussion. Physics improvement also very welcome. But I think PD is working hard on that and haven't let us fully take advantage of the possibilities yet (another assumption )

I agree, especially since the the controversial 1.05 update came. With the particle/dust effects, tire deformation footage, the recent yaw footage from @Haitauer, and everything else that is showing up lately, it looks like the best scenario would be PD giving multiple settings for the physics model. If the "god hand" exists and does turn out to be the SRF at work, that should be an easy toggle to turn off - I did that as soon as I started playing GT6.

Yeah, PD have remained very hush-hush throughout the long development cycle and as a consumer, and huge fan of GT, that can really be annoying - lets hope it pays off at launch. Maybe it does come out this year, but I'd rather them wait til 2018 and have time to implement feedback from the beta in a polished, well thought-out fashion. However, it must launch by next year or that would be pushing everyone's patience waaaay to far.

Funny thought... we also have to keep in mind that PD used to charge us for this kind of thing back in 2008 with GT5 Prologue. I swear, only PD can pull a move like that --- charge $40 USD for a demo AND sell over 5 million copies SMH. And that's when there were actually a lot of good racing games available like Iracing, FM3 in 2009, and many others, including the brilliant Tourist Trophy (boy, talk about physics ). But like you said, after I got over the honey moon phase, I put down Prologue and started playing FM3 until GT5 came out the following year.

Also, GTPlanet community numbers: Active Users Page. I'm thinking that GTS could sell at least 6-7 million copies... maybe even more.

 

[OdeFinn]

@Haitauer it's possible to turn off "God mode" in 1.05, ABS activates God mode, switch off and no more ridiculous super saves on throttle or lift-off cases.

They have also adjusted lot of FFB powers/effects, formerly had 8 power and 2 sensitivity, now I have to pump up those 9 power and 4 sensitivity to get all feedback out from game, but this was just good improvement.

 

[Haitauer]

ABS activates God mode, switch off and no more ridiculous super saves on throttle or lift-off cases.

Actually was wondering if abs is more than abs the other day.. Just forgot to test. Have been using abs as i cant find any feel for the brakes locking on G29 - locking way too early to feel any pressure on pedal. waiting for settings to change brake pressure..

 

[OdeFinn]

Actually was wondering if abs is more than abs the other day.. Just forgot to test. Have been using abs as i cant find any feel for the brakes locking on G29 - locking way too early to feel any pressure on pedal. waiting for settings to change brake pressure..

Try 7 controller sensitivity, 9 ffb power, 4 ffb sensitivity, locking is easily felt then.

Btw. They have updated clutch working range, not perfect yet, but 80% better than it was, got mis shifts only if trying to shift improperly.
Tapping clutch is enough on up and down shifts, no need to fully press anymore. But if you're down-shifting and trying to put gear which will hit rev limiter it fails when only tapping clutch and drops you neutral, but you can force gear in if fully pressing clutch, then it will dance on limiter.

 

[Johnnypenso]

@Haitauer it's possible to turn off "God mode" in 1.05, ABS activates God mode, switch off and no more ridiculous super saves on throttle or lift-off cases.

They have also adjusted lot of FFB powers/effects, formerly had 8 power and 2 sensitivity, now I have to pump up those 9 power and 4 sensitivity to get all feedback out from game, but this was just good improvement.

So you're saying that PD has wrapped up God Mode (aka SRF and apparently some kind of TC and/or ASM as well) into the ABS coding? And that the car behaves differently off the brakes when ABS is not activated? Can you provide some evidence of this?

 

[OdeFinn]

So you're saying that PD has wrapped up God Mode (aka SRF and apparently some kind of TC and/or ASM as well) into the ABS coding? And that the car behaves differently off the brakes when ABS is not activated? Can you provide some evidence of this?

Easily can prove, just taking one drive video and voila it's shown, every player who has GTS can prove my claim just by testing, difference is so big i.e. Evora handling at it's impossible to mis.

There's also updated tire model on 1.05, that makes counter toe to camber total unnecessary, which come to me by testing my old tunes which were working fine with counter toe, now those are working same with zero toe. Reason is probably added tire flex model, next time on ps4 trying to capture it on video, probably most visible on high sidewall tires.

 

[Haitauer]

Can you provide some evidence of this?

You can test this your self.. Why always asking for evidence.

 

[OdeFinn]

You can test this your self.. Why always asking for evidence.

Because he doesnt have GTS, only opinions of it.

 

[ImaRobot]

You can test this your self.. Why always asking for evidence.

Because he doesnt have GTS, only opinions of it.

I was under the impression that the beta was limited, and not everyone got a code. And then there's people that don't have a PS4, but are trying to get any info we can about the game before we jump in and purchase a console (me.) So why not help out those that don't? I'm not sure why it would be so hard to show it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You can test this your self.. Why always asking for evidence.

I don't have the beta. I also haven't seen anyone else talking about how to get around the so called God mode and am unwilling to take the word of someone who thinks diamonds are soft and that if a lot of people think something is true it becomes a fact. It's also the way things work around here. If you make a factual claim you have to be prepared to back it up with some evidence and not rely on, "just try it yourself", or, "everyone knows this". Now if someone like Praiano, Stotty or Scaff says it's true I'd be inclined to believe them without evidence because they've proven over time that they aren't swayed by their own personal bias when it comes to physics and car behaviour.