GT Sport have over 5 million players

[Silver Arrows]

Not only that, but everything you've said about how they count multiple accounts can be direcly associated to the game you're comparing it too as well. On top of that, no one was comparing it to GTS sales at all. As well as the fact that GTS themselves use the very same metrics.

Exactly. Again, none of this matters to the rest of us, and if it did, then it only paints a somewhat incomplete picture that is to be taken with a grain of salt.

Sales, and now player numbers, really only serves to extend and start inter-series pissing matches, and this thread is a perfect example as to why.

HOW DARE YOU SAY FORZA IN THE SAME SENTENCE AS GLORIOUS MASTER RACE GRAN TURISMO.

I swear to god some people on this side of the forum have their eyes bulging out in anger when Forza is mentioned even in a positive, similar light to GT.

 

[breeminator]

Yes, I'm aware of where your first post was. It changes nothing about the questions posed to you because nothing was being compared or belittled in the first place. @emula just can't comprehend that because he's too quick to try to jump down everyone's throat as soon as the word Forza gets mentions replying too quick before he even comprehends what's actually being talked about, so he made a misinformed post that led you down a misinformed path. So I suggest following the thread a little better if that's the case.

I didn't read any posts other than the one I responded to, as that was what I was responding to. You're saying you don't disagree with what I said, and neither does anyone else, so there doesn't seem to be any need for further discussion.

 

[ImaRobot]

I didn't read any posts other than the one I responded to, as that was what I was responding to. You're saying you don't disagree with what I said, and neither does anyone else, so there doesn't seem to be any need for further discussion.

Yes I know you did, and that's why everyone is questioning you as such, because you're supporting a post from someone who is completely misunderstanding everything going on, and just trying to pick a fight because he doesn't like the word Forza. What you were responding to was part of a larger conversation.

It's not only that I disagree with what you said, it's also that you've been actually incorrect in the things you've been associating to a game when it's happening at both sides of this spectrum.

 

[breeminator]

It's not only that I disagree with what you said, it's also that you've been actually incorrect in the things you've been associating to a game when it's happening at both sides of this spectrum.

Nothing I said was incorrect - you and someone else asserting it's incorrect doesn't make it incorrect. And I made no comment on whether or not anyone else is using similar tactics to game metrics.

I'm genuinely interested in the answer to my question that nobody has answered yet. It was stated that 40% of GTS players (which presumably means 40% of accounts not 40% of distinct people) haven't driven 100km in the game. I'm curious to know why that would happen, as it seems bizarre that people would buy it and be so surprised by it relative to their expectations that they would play it so little. Bundle copies? Parents buying it for children who didn't really want it? Surely someone has attempted to analyse why such a huge % of accounts used to run the game would do less than 100km?

 

[limepie]

Nothing I said was incorrect - you and someone else asserting it's incorrect doesn't make it incorrect. And I made no comment on whether or not anyone else is using similar tactics to game metrics.

I'm genuinely interested in the answer to my question that nobody has answered yet. It was stated that 40% of GTS players (which presumably means 40% of accounts not 40% of distinct people) haven't driven 100km in the game. I'm curious to know why that would happen, as it seems bizarre that people would buy it and be so surprised by it relative to their expectations that they would play it so little. Bundle copies? Parents buying it for children who didn't really want it? Surely someone has attempted to analyse why such a huge % of accounts used to run the game would do less than 100km?

I went to my friends house about a year ago. He had just gotten a PS4 and a few games. He's very very into video games but doesn't care about cars or racing games really. He told me he had gran turismo, becuase of course, he had to have it. Its Gran Turismo.

He also told me he played it for about half an hour and then decided it was too hard core for him.

I suspect there are many people who do just that. Buy the game because its kind of the racing game to have for that system, and because honestly, racing games about cars tend to be the most realistic looking games a person could buy on consoles. But then the reality of it sets in. The average joe who doesn't know cars and doesn't love cars is going to have to put a TON of effort into GT sport (or FM7, or PCars etc) to get anything out of it. Now, if he put that much effort into the game he would be rewarded, because the game is good. But its still a speed bump a ton of people apparently fail to clear.

Was it a waste of money for him? Yeah probably. But i think it happens a lot more than any of us would like to think.

 

[ImaRobot]

Nothing I said was incorrect - you and someone else asserting it's incorrect doesn't make it incorrect.

No, they're wrong because they're just factually incorrect.

Here, I can list some of them.

Not only have they given FH4 away for free since launch day, if they're counting users, they're counting multiple accounts as multiple users, and some people have many accounts. Presumably if someone downloads it for free, runs it up once to go "ooh" at the graphics, and never plays it again, that's another "player" added to the count. It's just not in any way comparable to GTS having sold 8m copies.

Something which both games do when they've used players as a gauged metric.

Also, incorrect in assuming that it was being compared to GTS sales

It's free to people who were already subscribing to Game Pass, i.e. they don't have to pay anything on top of what they were already paying for a service they wanted for other reasons.

Incorrect in continuing to say that it was free to them because they had the Gamepass. The gamepass is not free, so that automatically has a price associated to it, whether it's this really quick 1$ sale, or the 10$ monthly payment.

In FH4, you cannot access all single player content unless you buy Xbox Live Gold (well, you could try to get those cars via the auction house, but good luck with that if you're on a console trying to compete against bots running on PCs).

You have access to everything that is advertised on disc. Those extras that require Xbox Live to play are extra free cars, not counted as the original release car count. You get all of the advertised and cataloged single player content in game, by playing the game, even if you never touched the internet because what you're actually talking about here is free extra's that are not part of the vanilla game. If I remember correctly, the Forza Edition cars are not counted towards the final car list that was available upon the games release.

I get your point, but what you pay for is all on disc available to you without any online play. There are some cars locked behind wheel spins that you get like hotcakes.

And I made no comment on whether or not anyone else is using similar tactics to game metrics.

Then why mention it in the first place? If everyone is doing it the same way, I have no idea why someone would try to make it a point against one side only?

I'm genuinely interested in the answer to my question that nobody has answered yet. It was stated that 40% of GTS players (which presumably means 40% of accounts not 40% of distinct people) haven't driven 100km in the game. I'm curious to know why that would happen, as it seems bizarre that people would buy it and be so surprised by it relative to their expectations that they would play it so little. Bundle copies? Parents buying it for children who didn't really want it? Surely someone has attempted to analyse why such a huge % of accounts used to run the game would do less than 100km?

It's 40% of every single individual account(not individual people, because plenty of people have spare accounts) that has popped open GTS at least once. There's absolutely no way anyone can answer why individual people bought the game and barely played it. There can be a plethora of different answers.

 

[breeminator]

Incorrect in continuing to say that it was free to them because they had the Gamepass. The gamepass is not free, so that automatically has a price associated to it, whether it's this really quick 1$ sale, or the 10$ monthly payment.

I can't be bothered to go through them all, so I'll just take this one as an example. You said that in response to me saying this:
"It's free to people who were already subscribing to Game Pass, i.e. they don't have to pay anything on top of what they were already paying for a service they wanted for other reasons."
What I said is a simple fact. If someone already has Game Pass for other reasons, they don't have to pay anything at all to play an additional game such as FH4. Not $1, not $10, nothing.

 

[ImaRobot]

I can't be bothered to go through them all, so I'll just take this one as an example. You said that in response to me saying this:
"It's free to people who were already subscribing to Game Pass, i.e. they don't have to pay anything on top of what they were already paying for a service they wanted for other reasons."
What I said is a simple fact. If someone already has Game Pass for other reasons, they don't have to pay anything at all to play an additional game such as FH4. Not $1, not $10, nothing.

That's fine, but it doesn't change that some things you've been saying haven't really even been correct.

If they have to pay for the Gamepass, than no matter what else they're playing with it whether its a multitude of games or just Forza, there's a price associated to being able to play these games in the first place. That is the opposite of free.

Fortnite is free.
DC Universe online is free.
World of tanks is free.

Forza isn't.

I'm not disputing that if they purchased the game pass, whether it was $1 or $10, then they can download the game. However, you're either being intentionally misleading, or you're not understanding what the term free means.

Not only have they given FH4 away for free since launch day

And if you're going to say this with your opening post, than it sounds more like you're just saying it's free regardless.

 

[TS050]

I wonder when all the fanboys will realize that Kaz won't personally thank them for 'defending' Gran Turismo

 

[Silver Arrows]

I wonder when all the fanboys will realize that Kaz won't personally thank them for 'defending' Gran Turismo

That's the ultimate irony in all of this - it's not like you're going to get a medal like some war veteran for participating in the great battle of Forza Horizon vs. GT Sport Player numbers of 2019, so why bother?

 

[breeminator]

And if you're going to say this with your opening post, than it sounds more like you're just saying it's free regardless.

If I'd said that everyone who plays it does so for free, you'd have a point, but that's not what I said. Clearly the game isn't free for everyone, only the subset of people who already have Game Pass for other reasons. I'd expected everyone reading my post would know that was what I was referring to.

Similarly, for example, I bought a PS4 just to play GTS. GTS cost me £266, as I bought the PS4 without any expectation of ever using it to play any other game. If, having done that, I decide to buy another game for e.g. £40, that game doesn't cost me £165, I don't need to assign half the cost of the PS4 to it because I already own it now, and was happy to pay the entirety of the price of it to play GTS.

Tell you what, I'll re-word that first post here to try to make it clearer. This is in response to a poster who discussed comparing player numbers of one game with copies sold of another game. I'm responding to that and no other post. It is not reasonable to compare player numbers of one game with copies sold of another game, because some people play games with multiple accounts, and those will count towards player numbers but not copies sold. Additionally, when the game for which player numbers are being used is available on Game Pass, some of those players will be people who didn't incur any additional cost to play the game. This all seems so self evidently true that I can't believe we're still arguing over it.

 

[rhalgr]

@breeminator
Your reasoning for the gamepass is simplified, because you are saying 'people who bought the gamepass for other games are essentially playing FH4 for free' irrc. Fact of the matter is, they are still paying for gamepass and we don't know how many subscribed for other games. We don't know how many subscribed to play mainly FH4 either.

If you want to do an detailed analysis about the success of a game, you have to take much more into account.

 

[ImaRobot]

If I'd said that everyone who plays it does so for free, you'd have a point, but that's not what I said. Clearly the game isn't free for everyone, only the subset of people who already have Game Pass for other reasons. I'd expected everyone reading my post would know that was what I was referring to.

That's basically what you said. You started out saying it's free.

Not only have they given FH4 away for free since launch day

Then you back tracked when you got corrected, even though you're just as wrong still because it's still not free to those who have the Gamepass. They can only download it if they payed for the Gamepass, and they can only play it if they continue paying the monthly subscription for the Gamepass. That is not free, for anyone. It's extremely clear what you're referring too, not a single person is confused about that, it's just still wrong.

Similarly, for example, I bought a PS4 just to play GTS. GTS cost me £266, as I bought the PS4 without any expectation of ever using it to play any other game. If, having done that, I decide to buy another game for e.g. £40, that game doesn't cost me £165, I don't need to assign half the cost of the PS4 to it because I already own it now, and was happy to pay the entirety of the price of it to play GTS.

are you serious with this example? This has nothing to do with the topic, the one that has been completely wrong from the get go because of a user that can't seem to understand what hes responding to, and isn't even remotely similar.

Tell you what, I'll re-word that first post here to try to make it clearer. This is in response to a poster who discussed comparing player numbers of one game with copies sold of another game. I'm responding to that and no other post. It is not reasonable to compare player numbers of one game with copies sold of another game, because some people play games with multiple accounts, and those will count towards player numbers but not copies sold. Additionally, when the game for which player numbers are being used is available on Game Pass, some of those players will be people who didn't incur any additional cost to play the game. This all seems so self evidently true that I can't believe we're still arguing over it.

That changes nothing though and would still just be sending you down a wrong path because there was no comparison being made at all, and was just his completely wrong assumption, which has been pointed out to you. So to continue bringing that up as if it means anything is a moot point. No comparison between numbers and copies sold was being made. We're only arguing about it because you keep bringing it up when it had no place in the discussion from the get go, as no one has stated as such.

They will also definitely incur additional cost to play the game, because you have to pay monthly to keep playing the game in the first place. So not only is it not free outright, it's also not free to Gamepass users since they incur additional monthly costs to keep playing it. That is what is so self-evidently true that I can't believe you keep arguing over it.

 

[ShakesMcQueen]

I wonder when all the fanboys will realize that Kaz won't personally thank them for 'defending' Gran Turismo

I still think it's amazing that this argument was kicked off by someone essentially complimenting both games by saying "Yay! Both games are doing well! FH4 just announced they have 10 million players, and I imagine GT Sport isn't far behind!".

The idea that Gran Turismo is anything less than the TOP DAWG in every conceivable metric, is actually offensive to a few diehards on this forum.

 

[rhalgr]

@ShakesMcQueen
Different racing games having success should be applauded by racing fans, because this could result in more publishers either allowing bigger budgets for these games or more racing games being made.

Even as an huge Mario Kart fan, my hope is that sonic and crash bandicoot racing games do great. This will only result in more games being made and as we know different developers have their own ideas and this will push the genre forward as a whole.

 

[GT6mebe]

I still think it's amazing that this argument was kicked off by someone essentially complimenting both games by saying "Yay! Both games are doing well! FH4 just announced they have 10 million players, and I imagine GT Sport isn't far behind!".

The idea that Gran Turismo is anything less than the TOP DAWG in every conceivable metric, is actually offensive to a few diehards on this forum.

Yeah because including crucial details such as FH4 including gamepass players is somehow not okay
It will be interesting to see how much FH4 and GTS have actually sold.

 

[rhalgr]

@GT6mebe
The original post applauded both games and wasn't meant as a comparison.

 

[GT6mebe]

The point was you can't compare the player numbers 1:1 due to the differences in how the games are delivered to end users.

 

[rhalgr]

The point was you can't compare the player numbers 1:1 due to the differences in how the games are delivered to end users.

He didn't compare them. It was an GT fan that got triggered for no reason.

 

[ImaRobot]

Yeah because including crucial details such as FH4 including gamepass players is somehow not okay
It will be interesting to see how much FH4 and GTS have actually sold.

It’s fine to talk about it, but it’s absolutely irrelevant to what was even said in the first place.

The point was you can't compare the player numbers 1:1 due to the differences in how the games are delivered to end users.

Good thing no one did. It was just twisted to fit the narrative of the same users that always try to pick fights any time Forza is mentioned, then because that same person typically didn’t understand what he was responding to, it got a whole chain reaction of people with the same mindsets chiming in about something that wasn’t even happening in the first place. That much should be painfully obvious.

 

[Silver Arrows]

I see the guest of honor has finally arrive to spout his usual spiel. Do I get to fill out the rest of my bingo card then?

Yeah because including crucial details such as FH4 including gamepass players is somehow not okay
It will be interesting to see how much FH4 and GTS have actually sold.

You know for a fact that Polyphony would do the same thing if there was a PS equivalent to the Game Pass and GT Sport was on it. Considering how you've basically ignored the fact that Polyphony has, on occasion, added beta players to the overall number count to inflate it, I'd imagine it'd be the same thing you've always done: praise one and demonize the other.

And there's no point in wringing over sales numbers because as has been mentioned time and time again - sales numbers simply do not matter anymore. What matters is how those players are actually spending their time after buying it. But of course, to you, all that matters is sales numbers because it affirms your beliefs that GT is still the alpha dog when the rest of the genre when the rest of the genre, hell the gaming industry, have moved on from those pissing matches, and that the rules of engagement when it comes to system sellers, the racing game genre, and practically everything else, has changed.

So, par for the course.

The point was you can't compare the player numbers 1:1 due to the differences in how the games are delivered to end users.

Then lets play a game. More often then not your arguments are disingenuous and really reveal yourself also to be disingenuous at the best of times, but lets say for ***** and giggles we do the comparison song and dance. You'll say that FH3/4 will not be applicable because of the Game Pass angle, you'll say that Driveclub isn't a comparable to GT in terms of sales and players numbers because of the PS Plus version (which, once more, should be mentioned you stomped up and down saying it was a free PS Plus title like say, COD4 Remastered or Yakuza Kiwami, when in reality it was a free trial that lead to a discount on the full version, and it was pushed out really too late to make an appreciable difference in DC's sales or player numbers) and that sales numbers trump all in terms of comparisons (Again, it should be noted that sales numbers really aren't that important anymore or are released publicly, what matters is player numbers and how the games are played, one of which is never revealed publicly)

So what is a fair comparison then? You've basically stacked the deck so that the only fair 'comparison' is sales, something which more often then not is fudged to make one series look better then the other, and isn't publicly released by publishers in this day and age, and only has an industry built up around it to fuel fanboy wars.

Should also mention that this entire thing came out of one person putting praise on both GT Sport and Horizon 4, and spiraled out of control when somebody who obviously wanted to start a quick fight, twisted said person's praise of both titles, and made disingenuous arguments out of it.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

*Snip*
Stop trying to one up something for no reason and just be happy with how popular these games are getting.

You mean like this?
The topic was about GT Sport sales, and no-one had mentioned Forza Horizon.

*Snip*
Horizon 4 sitting at 10 million players, with GTS not too far behind I'd imagine.

Hmmm.

I wonder when all the fanboys will realize that Kaz won't personally thank them for 'defending' Gran Turismo

That's the ultimate irony in all of this - it's not like you're going to get a medal like some war veteran for participating in the great battle of Forza Horizon vs. GT Sport Player numbers of 2019, so why bother?

Why bother indeed.

*Snip*
Unfortunately, it just allows them to obfuscate things and make it so that certain groups of people have to basically defend Forza and look like the aggressors by jumping into the GT side.*Snip*

Ah, I see.
Did someone say "irony"?


You two turn up to these threads like clockwork whenever the topic is revived.
This time you've come with a harmony of 'why does it matter','who cares', 'none of this matters', etc. etc.
Although I'm not sure if you're trying to convince others or yourselves.

I'm pretty sure the storeroom has run out of high-horses.
Because there are plenty of them being used in this thread, and by people from both sides of the 'battlefield'.

 

[ImaRobot]

You mean like this?
The topic was about GT Sport sales, and no-one had mentioned Forza Horizon.

There was no one upping there. The only way that it could be so is if you take it out of context, exactly like you did. That was practically an admission of them being on equal footing with its playerbase.

If you actually quote the whole post instead of twisting it to fit your narrative, this is what it actually said:

Great numbers, really. Horizon 4 and GTS are really keeping the racing genre in the spotlight with both their respective consoles, even if they aren't that similar of games. Horizon 4 sitting at 10 million players, with GTS not too far behind I'd imagine.

It was a congratulations as well as glimmer of hope for the racing genre as a whole. These two titles alone are keeping this genre front and center, and that is what we need. It doesn't matter what the game was, if it was Pcars with a huge playerbase, I would have posted that too. But it's not. These two games are getting the right attention for us, and that only betters this genre. Not stupid arguments about how a game got it's players, or that Game X has more sales than Game Y, because the actual important thing here is that people are wanting to, and actually playing, these games.

You two turn up to these threads like clockwork whenever the topic is revived.
This time you've come with a harmony of 'why does it matter','who cares', 'none of this matters', etc. etc.
Although I'm not sure if you're trying to convince others or yourselves.

I keep turning up in a thread that I've had active conversations in? Who would have thunk it

Because it literally didn't matter in regard to the actual point being made. Not only that, but there was literally no comparison being made, so even more of a reason as to why it didn't matter that someone wanted to twist words and start a battle, all the while misunderstanding what was actually said.

I need no convincing that the amount of sales or players doesn't matter to me at all, not as something to try to make a fight against, because worrying about game sales does absolutely nothing for the consumer. That's something that Devs and Publishers have to worry about. I'm not foolish enough to try to pretend that what they sell, and who plays it, has any bearing on me other than the fact that because of people buying it and playing it will actually only better my experience in the long run with continued support. But you go ahead and keep twisting things in order to white knight the subject.

I'm pretty sure the storeroom has run out of high-horses.
Because there are plenty of them being used in this thread, and by people from both sides of the 'battlefield'.

There is no battlefield, because this "battle" you're labeling was completely one sided as an attempt to twist what was originally said. Try grasping a little harder next time, you just might get it.

Next time, why don't you try actually adding something to the subject instead of trying to pick a fight with me, that has nothing to do with what's actually being discussed.

 

[Silver Arrows]

You mean like this?
The topic was about GT Sport sales, and no-one had mentioned Forza Horizon.

It was mentioned, but like has been said time and time again - it was in a congratulatory context, a context that you (purposefully, it seems) left out for whatever reason.

Ah, I see.
Did someone say "irony"?

Considering you once more snipped away any and all context to my statements, that doesn't exactly further your point when I said.

You two turn up to these threads like clockwork whenever the topic is revived.
This time you've come with a harmony of 'why does it matter','who cares', 'none of this matters', etc. etc.

Because...it doesn't matter? As has been said by me, and others, in this thread, player numbers really are just a fluffy sort of thing that basically has no real meat behind it - how many of those player numbers have stopped playing the game because of outside circumstances? How are those players spending their time within the game? Really, player numbers as most companies announce them - as a static number, basically are pointless because they don't have any sort of context within them as to how those 5 or 10 million players are spending their time within the game, nor does it account for any sort of deviance that might occur over an extended period of time.

Without context (which publishers and developers don't exactly want to release, and I get that) it basically serves as fuel for arguments, the same way sales numbers do. And guess what? that's exactly what happened here.

I'm pretty sure the storeroom has run out of high-horses.
Because there are plenty of them being used in this thread, and by people from both sides of the 'battlefield'.

I'm sure you won't include yourself in this, then? Because if anything, you're the one who came in on the highest horse, cutting away any and all context from me and @ImaRobot's statements. And for what? To make yourself look better?

 

[MisterOne77]

This thread is legit fanboys arguing against reason 60% of the time.

 

[Tired Tyres]

This thread is legit fanboys arguing against reason 101% of the time.

Fixed for you.

 

[rhalgr]

https://www.evo.co.uk/news/22774/gr...t-on-real-world-racing-with-kazunori-yamauchi

This article mentions more than 7 million GTS players.
Don't know, if there source is Kaz or not.

 

[Unknown?]

https://www.evo.co.uk/news/22774/gr...t-on-real-world-racing-with-kazunori-yamauchi

This article mentions more than 7 million GTS players.
Don't know, if there source is Kaz or not.

It was announced in March by PD.

 

[Terronium-12]

It's okay, no one is going to hurt you anymore. This is your safe space. Nevermind the fact — you know what? I'm not doing this.

If, for whatever reason, this breaks out into yet another Forza vs GT debate because some people are so willfully insecure about their title of choice, posts will be deleted without any question.

Those of you doing as you should, continue on. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.