GT Sport Le Mans - the best realistion of a sim track ever?

[05XR8]

Even just a wet surface variation(like the Northern Isle Mission), would suffice.

 

[GhostChild]

I agree GT Sport Le Mans is one of the best looking of all racing games. It has some track side detail trade offs to improve performance but overall it has a really true to life look.

But the thing I really like is how GT Sport manages asphalt textures. In most racing games of today and since the early 3D racing games, you could see the texture repetition all over the surface, specially when watching the replay and the camera zooms in the car you clearly could see the repetitive pattern. I observed this is really noticiable in Project Cars 2 and some other new sims and games and it kills a bit the realism for me.

This effect is barely noticiable in most of GT Sport tracks to the point sometimes I even cannot spot the texture pattern. Nurburgring is a good example of it.

EDIT: screenshots PC2 and GT

 

[GT6mebe]

I still think GTS Nurb is the best modelled track in sim racing.

Within I would rank it as:

1) Nurb
2) Le Mans
3) Bathurst
4) Interlagos

I expect when Spa comes it will look spectacular. It was one of the best looking tracks in GT5 as well.

 

[Knukel]

@andrewhake Passionate posting up there!
...But i completely disagree with road feel being at the same level with Assetto Corsa or sim X when Nordscleife and Brands Hatch are what they currently are, even step backs from GT5/GT6... I haven't tried Assetto Corsa's Le Mans version, but it's a mod so it's kinda irrelevant. Sounds are what they are aswell, not so strong.
Graphics, well you are right about that... But IMO AC's cockpit view is more immersive and more clear... (not pitch black)
90% here will agree with you about the physics tho.

 

[J.D]

I was just driving Toyota TS050 Hybrid on lemons and that car sound and drive incredible
I had 3:17 time after like 6 laps on no chicane version

 

[CJ1045]

I was just driving Toyota TS050 Hybrid on lemons and that car sound and drive incredible
I had 3:17 time after like 6 laps on no chicane version

It would sound dramatic driven on lemons I think but not as fast as you managed!!

CJ

 

[MisterWaffles]

As a follow up to my older post, the Spirit of Le Mans pack for PC2 was released today, so here's a POV lap from the 919 Hybrid for the road surface comparison. (Please note this game uses an older year of Le Mans for the track surface.)

Yes, I'm aware PC2 uses a V8 sound for the 919. No, I don't have any explanation for that.

 

[SDSPOWER01]

This is absolute ********. The track surface detail in GT Sport is absolutely on the same level as any other sim and graphically it completely embarrasses them on every level. It's laser scanned just like the rest and PD has built an engine that is wildy more efficient than what anyone else has done on any platform. Not to mention, capturing the detail of a track surface isn't really that complicated anyway. They can dynamically tesselate geo on the fly among many other things, there is absolutely no reason to think they can't support the same amount of track detail as these other sims which aren't pushing PC hardware to the limit at all. I definitely prefer to drive in a sim that looks absolutely incredible, drives incredible, and runs at 60 fps, instead of driving in a play-doe world at 180fps on a PC.

Having driven both many times now, driving the new Le Mans in GT Sport and then driving Le Mans in Asseto Corsa is like a bad joke. The surface detail of the track is absolutely on the same level if not better in GT Sport. The immersion with the graphics and sound isn't even comparable.

I am sure you are aware that the fact these people who talks about surface detail do not do it for the laughs or to denegrate the game in any way.
It is proven many times even and shown in side by side comparison how GT Sport lacks in surface detailing and falls short behind other "hardcore"simulators.

Sure they can manage to get the same data and everything for the course but in the end they choose (PD) how much of this data they want to add in the game (seeing as other sims are claimed to have a more realistic FFB feel overall.)
I do not think these hardcore sim drivers say these things just to 🤬 on GT Sport, but mainly because they demand a better experience for the game.

Graphics can be argued I don't think the word embarrass is the right word here , yes GT Sport does seem to impress with it's visuals but they are not a generation ahead or anything if I must be brutally honest.
They have a much realistic way of capturing light and making materials look their best yes, but other racing games also have this magneficent moment of eye candy as found in GT Sport.
The only difference I see is how PD can continuously maintain this realistic look in the replays/ scapes or photomode.

And please do not even let me get started on the sounds..

But all in all I agree with this being the best looking Le-mans to date, shame they missed out on a night mode

 

[GWJP RACING]

This is absolute ********. The track surface detail in GT Sport is absolutely on the same level as any other sim and graphically it completely embarrasses them on every level. It's laser scanned just like the rest and PD has built an engine that is wildy more efficient than what anyone else has done on any platform. Not to mention, capturing the detail of a track surface isn't really that complicated anyway. They can dynamically tesselate geo on the fly among many other things, there is absolutely no reason to think they can't support the same amount of track detail as these other sims which aren't pushing PC hardware to the limit at all. I definitely prefer to drive in a sim that looks absolutely incredible, drives incredible, and runs at 60 fps, instead of driving in a play-doe world at 180fps on a PC.

Having driven both many times now, driving the new Le Mans in GT Sport and then driving Le Mans in Asseto Corsa is like a bad joke. The surface detail of the track is absolutely on the same level if not better in GT Sport. The immersion with the graphics and sound isn't even comparable.

I'll drop an LOL on this one.

 

[J.D]

Le Mans looks good only a few textures on the side of the road looks low resolution like PS2 graphics i hope they would fix this.

 

[ederss7]

The track surface on the mulsanne straight remained the same between 1989 and 2011. For the 2012 race there was already a new surface, that's why it's so smoother now.
My only complaint about this track is that PD've got the sun position wrong for the 21 and 22h times, if you compare to where the sun position is located during the race in june.
Project CARS has the worst version of this track in comparison to GTS, Forza and iRacing, by far. The track layout is very inaccurate, you don't even need a comparison video to notice that.

 

[05XR8]

I've watched all my Daily Race videos and I'm still in awe. The camera positions, sounds, car movements and lighting. Excellent job.

 

[AbeFroman75]

As a follow up to my older post, the Spirit of Le Mans pack for PC2 was released today, so here's a POV lap from the 919 Hybrid for the road surface comparison. (Please note this game uses an older year of Le Mans for the track surface.)

That kind of driving would have been about 40 seconds worth of penalties in GTSport.

 

[barkohba]

For some reasons they got rid of the bumps although there were a lot on GT6's and precedent versions.

If you're talking about the bumpy Mulsanne straight, the French resurfaced it 2-3 years ago. So it should be a lot smoother than in any game that laser-scanned it before that.

 

[Scaff]

Having driven both many times now, driving the new Le Mans in GT Sport and then driving Le Mans in Asseto Corsa is like a bad joke. The surface detail of the track is absolutely on the same level if not better in GT Sport. The immersion with the graphics and sound isn't even comparable.

Le Mans in AC is a user created mod, its not an official track and as such we have no idea how the data for it was captured or what level it was modelled to.

If your going to make a comparison at least make it between two official tracks.

Now GTS is without a doubt the better looking title, and if that's your bag then its the one for you; however in terms of physics and for many of the track surface detail (as in pretty much all of them bar Le Sarth and the 'ring) they are massively lacking in detail, with Brands Hatch being one of the worst offenders.

 

[barkohba]

I've just done about 10 laps in the Nissan R92CP in cockpit view at 22.00. It looked and felt amazing to drive. Stunning. I was grinning from ear to ear the whole time (I did cheat using ABS though)

And then I watched the replay..... Wow.

I don't know why many people think 80s Group C cars didn't have ABS. I know even Project Cars 2 stipulates they didn't. However, Group C cars 100% had ABS.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_Hours_of_Le_Mans#Brakes

Custom race Arcade keeps giving me the Hyundai and McLaren as rivals. I'm trying to do a 3 car race with the C9 and Jag. Five attempts at set up, just not going to happen in Arcade Mode.

This is because of 2 stupid decisions on PD's side:

1) Include Group C cars as "Gr1" (???)
2) Giving very limited options in CUSTOM (!!!) race mode regarding to opponents.

Mulsanne straight again resurfaced after 2012? It shouldn't be completely smooth. Overall track surroundings looks great, surface though too smooth.

GTS is VERY sensible regarding what wheel you're using. I used to have a G29 and could feel next to nothing. I've had a T-GT for months now and there's a big difference. You get much more detail, and although GTS's version of Mulsanne is smoother vs PC2 (because of a more recent scan, and resurfacing), driving on it is nowhere near smooth, there's a lot of vibration and small bumps, just less than the older version, pre-resurfacing.

 

[Scaff]

I don't know why many people think 80s Group C cars didn't have ABS. I know even Project Cars 2 stipulates they didn't. However, Group C cars 100% had ABS.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_Hours_of_Le_Mans#Brakes

I'm not sure at all that I would trust that claim given that its got no source for it at all.

I know that the 956/962 never even experimented with ABS until '86 at the earliest (and that was at Fuji) and its development was not a priority over the PDK system which was seen as a much higher priority.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...=onepage&q=group c le mans abs brakes&f=false

I'm old enough to remember Group C racing and have no recollection at all of a mandate to put ABS on all Group C cars, nor can I recall Derek Bell mentioning in once in the In-Car 956 video (and given his dislike of the ABS system of the day I would have found that quite likely).

 

[barkohba]

I'm not sure at all that I would trust that claim given that its got no source for it at all.

I know that the 956/962 never even experimented with ABS until '86 at the earliest (and that was at Fuji) and its development was not a priority over the PDK system which was seen as a much higher priority.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RQzeqWTBaTMC&pg=PA131&lpg=PA131&dq=group+c+le+mans+abs+brakes&source=bl&ots=YadV5VQeaR&sig=BFTJ0iceVJz5su-PAxMAxuBvEfk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwifjpD9083bAhXOfFAKHWfzCL8Q6AEIiQEwDA#v=onepage&q=group c le mans abs brakes&f=false

I'm old enough to remember Group C racing and have no recollection at all of a mandate to put ABS on all Group C cars, nor can I recall Derek Bell mentioning in once in the In-Car 956 video (and given his dislike of the ABS system of the day I would have found that quite likely).

It's true that there isn't as source, however it does state that it was a standard on "most", meaning not all were using it.

I searched a bit online and I couldn't find clear regulations nor anything stating ABS was allowed or NOT allowed, just this WIKI reference. In this case, the absence of evidence for any variant means we can't definitely state it was or was not. What I do know is that most racing car groups, especially in the 70s and 80s (and early 90s) were still playing around with regulations, FIA trying to constantly catch up and cover the loopholes in the regulations as teams began using more and more aid tools before they were outlawed, so it isn't a far fetch to assume that, considering teams were seeing advantages in using ABS (as long as it wasn't -yet- outlawed- ), they might as well just have.

 

[Scaff]

It's true that there isn't as source, however it does state that it was a standard on "most", meaning not all were using it.

I searched a bit online and I couldn't find clear regulations nor anything stating ABS was allowed or NOT allowed, just this WIKI reference. In this case, the absence of evidence for any variant means we can't definitely state it was or was not. What I do know is that most racing car groups, especially in the 70s and 80s (and early 90s) were still playing around with regulations, FIA trying to constantly catch up and cover the loopholes in the regulations as teams began using more and more aid tools before they were outlawed, so it isn't a far fetch to assume that, considering teams were seeing advantages in using ABS (as long as it wasn't -yet- outlawed- ), they might as well just have.

I agree that they were not outlawed at that point and the regs were playing catch-up (reality is that the Group C's changed and evolved without that as well), however I've just checked a few of my period books and specs and not a single one lists ABS as being used by any of the Group C cars covered.

Given the lack of evidence for its use I'm personally inclined to go with ABS wasn't standard on Group C.

That said I'm also of the view that in a game everyone should run whatever they feel comfortable with.

 

[Haitauer]

It is proven many times even and shown in side by side comparison how GT Sport lacks in surface detailing and falls short behind other "hardcore"simulators.

Surface detail as bumpiness, i assume you mean, is a peculiar thing in GTS. Looking closely one can see there is a lot of bump detail in GTS. One can see this from the wheel an suspension movement. For some reason beyond me not much of that bumpiness come though to steering/ffb or even car body movement. Seems like suspensions smoothens too much of the bumbs.

 

[barkohba]

I agree that they were not outlawed at that point and the regs were playing catch-up (reality is that the Group C's changed and evolved without that as well), however I've just checked a few of my period books and specs and not a single one lists ABS as being used by any of the Group C cars covered.

Given the lack of evidence for its use I'm personally inclined to go with ABS wasn't standard on Group C.

That said I'm also of the view that in a game everyone should run whatever they feel comfortable with.

Just don't forget to set the break balance WAY at the back in GTS when running w/o ABS, as it seems for some reason, as standard (on 50/50 setting), in GTS the break balance actually seems to be set smth like 90% on the front and as soon as you step more than lightly on the break pedal, the front instantly locks. I managed to get the same breaking characteristics w/o ABS as in AC when I set the break balance to +3 (out of 5) on the back in the Sauber C9. On 0 it behaved like almost total front bias on AC.

 

[Scaff]

Just don't forget to set the break balance WAY at the back in GTS when running w/o ABS, as it seems for some reason, as standard (on 50/50 setting), in GTS the break balance actually seems to be set smth like 90% on the front and as soon as you step more than lightly on the break pedal, the front instantly locks. I managed to get the same breaking characteristics w/o ABS as in AC when I set the break balance to +3 (out of 5) on the back in the Sauber C9. On 0 it behaved like almost total front bias on AC.

Yep - I know Brake Bias in GT (as a series) has always been rather basic and also overly affected by ABS when its switched on.

 

[SDSPOWER01]

Surface detail as bumpiness, i assume you mean, is a peculiar thing in GTS. Looking closely one can see there is a lot of bump detail in GTS. One can see this from the wheel an suspension movement. For some reason beyond me not much of that bumpiness come though to steering/ffb or even car body movement. Seems like suspensions smoothens too much of the bumbs.

It is all a visual thing much like the tire flexing/deformation (seeing as we cannot adjust the tire pressure), yes I can see alot of suspension movement when driving on a supposed straight and "smooth" surface.
However even sometimes as naturally as the suspension reacts when driving it seems to also lack a "bouncy" feel when certain parts of the track are approached (it is almost like the cars have extremely stiff springs that compress and absorb the impact and completely erace the bounce effect).

Yes I know that a spring is supposed to reduce the bouncy effect but not to an extent that you don't feel or see anything, because sometimes even as I drive in a normal car I can feel the "bounce" when reaching rough surface.
I don't know how to explain this but comparing a game like AC, PC(2) and even Forza they all seem to translate this "bounce" effect much more naturally and realistically.

 

[Scaff]

It is all a visual thing much like the tire flexing/deformation (seeing as we cannot adjust the tire pressure), yes I can see alot of suspension movement when driving on a supposed straight and "smooth" surface.
However even sometimes as naturally as the suspension reacts when driving it seems to also lack a "bouncy" feel when certain parts of the track are approached (it is almost like the cars have extremely stiff springs that compress and absorb the impact and completely erace the bounce effect).

Yes I know that a spring is supposed to reduce the bouncy effect but not to an extent that you don't feel or see anything, because sometimes even as I drive in a normal car I can feel the "bounce" when reaching rough surface.
I don't know how to explain this but comparing a game like AC, PC(2) and even Forza they all seem to translate this "bounce" effect much more naturally and realistically.

Its not the spring that reduces the 'bounce' its the damper, without dampers the spring will keep bouncing far, far longer.

GT has always had an issue with dampers, and its easy to see on older cars, the all pretty much just extend and rebound and stop. when even the best dampers will still have a extend, rebound, pause and settle period and that's what GTS misses and the likes of AC and PC2 manage much better.

Some examples in this post illustrate it well.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-model-simulation.374616/page-4#post-12190298

 

[SDSPOWER01]

Its not the spring that reduces the 'bounce' its the damper, without dampers the spring will keep bouncing far, far longer.

Ah right thanks for the correction..

 

[J.D]

The time options for Le Mans is lacking 17 p.m and night.

 

[DGXR]

Yes Circuit de la Sarthe (aka "Le Mans") is a brilliant recreation among many other great tracks. But IMO you should not be able to cut the chicanes and gain +/- 5 seconds per lap (without penalty in the 1-hour endurance race). Same thing for the sandy runoff sections at the start of the track. I didn't need these cuts to win, I was just exploring the track and found out. Needs to be fixed -- either make the sand slow you down dramatically, or add barriers to prevent cutting.

 

[Haitauer]

either make the sand slow you down dramatically, or add barriers to prevent cutting

I'd love to see tires get actually dirty off track. Leave them more slippery for some time (like half a lap) or even ruin tires to a point of tire change.

 

[DatNoiseV12]

I don't know how to explain this but comparing a game like AC, PC(2) and even Forza they all seem to translate this "bounce" effect much more naturally and realistically.

It's one of the first things I noticed when I played GTS after many hours of Forza and Assetto. It doesn't feel natural at all but since Scaff says it's always been an issue, I guess we'll just learn to live with it.

 

[05XR8]

TOYOTA GAZOO Racing WEC (@Toyota_Hybrid) Tweeted:
Le Mans at night is always specatcular Enjoy the sights and sounds of a successful first qualifying for us at #LeMans24 https://t.co/JcjaSKhz1O