GT Sport physics thread

[David Talle]

I'm having troubles too without TCS, though I'm sure it's completely manageable with practice, it seems a bit unrealistic, like if engine cartography was on "crash the car"/on-off behaviour

I also agree that TCS 1 is a bit light, but still too strong when spinning a little bit as it's impossible to spin wheels at all on a standing start. And TCS 2 is too agressive. A level 1.5 should be (almost) perfect

 

[Ian Fairbanks]

I really wish cockpit seat position could put much more forward. And optional 'look to apex' as found in some sims, for
better cornering. And a dash cam. And FOV adjustment. And optional camera shaking to improve immersion and sense of speed. Motion blur would be nice as well but not really compatible with maintaining 60 fps. And a toggle to disable the wheel. PD offers superbly detailed cockpits but not enough settings to enjoy them fully.

You guys know there’s a way to adjust the driver view in the cockpit right? I did it with the Honda Civic because my “driver” sat in the car like a toddler. I couldn’t even see over the steering wheel. It’s somewhere in settings while on track.

 

[bobbie424242]

You guys know there’s a way to adjust the driver view in the cockpit right? I did it with the Honda Civic because my “driver” sat in the car like a toddler. I couldn’t even see over the steering wheel. It’s somewhere in settings while on track.

Yes, I know about that setting. The first thing I do when I want to drive a new car in cockpit view it to set the seat forward setting at -5. Unfortunately is it not enough. I wish for something like in that screenshot of rFactor2:

 

[PzR Slim]

You guys know there’s a way to adjust the driver view in the cockpit right? I did it with the Honda Civic because my “driver” sat in the car like a toddler. I couldn’t even see over the steering wheel. It’s somewhere in settings while on track.

Yeah but it's far too restrictive in what it allows you to adjust.

 

[Scalman2]

Fully tuned:
Mclaren 650
Hellcat
Porsche GT3RS
Viper
Corvette
LaFerrari
.
.
.

Just try launching any of them, no driver aids, racing super soft, ... I can't keep it in straight line using DS4

Would that be too much fully tune them? Too much power makes some cars undriveable

Yeah but it's far too restrictive in what it allows you to adjust.

And some cars dont adjust at all like Porsche which have non adjustable seat i guess.

 

[RAVELLRON]

Yes, I know about that setting. The first thing I do when I want to drive a new car in cockpit view it to set the seat forward setting at -5. Unfortunately is it not enough. I wish for something like in that screenshot of rFactor2:


View attachment 683758

yep, i would like something like -10

 

[Scaff]

Would that be too much fully tune them? Too much power makes some cars undriveable

The problem with launching them off the line is that GTS models it incorrectly. Everything is dead straight about the car until you get to around 20mph, after which the rear steps out. Its also not helped by the fact that the drivetrain inertia and tyre hook-up is iffy as well.

The rear should be trying to step out progressively as the tyres gain grip and you start moving (not meters down the road). As a result in unintuative and far more difficult to catch than it should be.

And some cars dont adjust at all like Porsche which have non adjustable seat i guess.

Nope.

They have fixed back seats as an option, they are still adjustable fore and aft and in height.
https://files.porsche.com/filestore...-11e7-8503-0019999cd470/911-GT3-Catalogue.pdf (p 64).

PD is too restrictive in the adjustments it allows and having no POV adjustment in something billed as a sim is simply not good enough (particularity given that past titles have supported POV adjustment).

Also can you please not double post.

 

[OdeFinn]

Is steering still speed-sensitive when using Motion? When using the sticks if you're at higher speeds the car only steers about 70% in either direction (as indicated by the red dot showing steering angle).

I know why speed-sensitive steering exists (it's been a thing in racing games for decades) but am wondering if Motion can give you 1:1 steering at all speeds.

This question answer would be nice, adding steering wheel to it.

Is steering 1:1 without speed sensitivity on GTS now, or is that still there as on c-beta?

 

[PzR Slim]

And some cars dont adjust at all like Porsche which have non adjustable seat i guess.

It's incredible the lengths some people will go to in their defence. Literally making things up in the process. Do you not actually care what people will think of you for doing such things? Is GT that important that you are prepared to go to such lengths?

The vast majority of cars manufactured today allow you to adjust your seating position in a huge number of ways. And the human race is diverse enough that we come in all sorts of shapes and sizes meaning our eye position varies greatly based on our size never mind our preferred seat position. @Scaff has it right, if GTS truly want's to be a driving sim it needs to offer as many positional tuning features as games such as PC2 or AC.

 

[TheCrazySwede]

Gran Turismo has always had an issue with their tire data. I've never had the opportunity to work with or even speak to any member of Polyphony's team, but I would love to have a chat with them about some of their decisions regarding the way the cars behave in this title. Having racing slicks that grip like glue in the PS3 era was annoying, but it didn't constantly instigate frustration quite like GT Sport. This is really surprising to me, given the weight this game carries as the 'iRacing of consoles' and being FIA sanctioned. Kaz isn't too bad of a driver, I hear, so it's all just really baffling to me how he can play it and think "Yes, this is how cars behave."

I see this a lot - people defending their favorite racing games online when people criticize certain aspects, such as how cars handle, only to be fooled by the idea that driving a race car is, and should be, a difficult task. I've said this before and I'll say it again - race cars are not difficult to drive. Any team that makes a race car that is difficult to drive (by modern standards) is a crap team that doesn't know how to setup the car. I drive a Porsche 911. I also race in a Porsche 911. The race car is by far the easier one to drive fast out of the two.

There's a huge distinction between grip and handling. Jeremy Clarkson said it best when he said,
"A [modern] F1 car has an immense amount of grip, but as far as I can tell it has lousy handling. In the olden days, it was much less about grip and more about handling, which is a driver led event in a race. Mastering a car that doesn't handle particularly well, or if it handles but has very small grip, requires immense skill."

Almost every single racing game confuses the two: grip vs handling. Race cars have incredible grip, but they don't handle particularly well. Top Gear fans will remember when James May drove that Aston Martin racer on the road and realized he had made a mistake. Ton of grip, yes; but crappy handling. Gran Turismo - just like Forza, Project Cars, and many others - mistakes the two and offers less grip instead of handling. Catching a race car sliding, especially single seaters like LMP's and Formula cars, is really tricky. Ton of grip; crap handling. Drifting a Toyota GT86 is not only easy, but it's super fun! Great handling; no grip.

Gran Turismo commits the same crime as all the other racing games. I think AC deals with this the best, but my favorite will always be SimBin's GTR2 (Can't wait for GTR3 next year!)

 

[Scalman2]

It's incredible the lengths some people will go to in their defence. Literally making things up in the process. Do you not actually care what people will think of you for doing such things? Is GT that important that you are prepared to go to such lengths?

The vast majority of cars manufactured today allow you to adjust your seating position in a huge number of ways. And the human race is diverse enough that we come in all sorts of shapes and sizes meaning our eye position varies greatly based on our size never mind our preferred seat position. @Scaff has it right, if GTS truly want's to be a driving sim it needs to offer as many positional tuning features as games such as PC2 or AC.

Sports cars dont adjust seats. So pd went to hyper realistic i guess to make that view change as real cars would let you or not

 

[Scalman2]

Gran Turismo has always had an issue with their tire data. I've never had the opportunity to work with or even speak to any member of Polyphony's team, but I would love to have a chat with them about some of their decisions regarding the way the cars behave in this title. Having racing slicks that grip like glue in the PS3 era was annoying, but it didn't constantly instigate frustration quite like GT Sport. This is really surprising to me, given the weight this game carries as the 'iRacing of consoles' and being FIA sanctioned. Kaz isn't too bad of a driver, I hear, so it's all just really baffling to me how he can play it and think "Yes, this is how cars behave."

I see this a lot - people defending their favorite racing games online when people criticize certain aspects, such as how cars handle, only to be fooled by the idea that driving a race car is, and should be, a difficult task. I've said this before and I'll say it again - race cars are not difficult to drive. Any team that makes a race car that is difficult to drive (by modern standards) is a crap team that doesn't know how to setup the car. I drive a Porsche 911. I also race in a Porsche 911. The race car is by far the easier one to drive fast out of the two.

There's a huge distinction between grip and handling. Jeremy Clarkson said it best when he said,
"A [modern] F1 car has an immense amount of grip, but as far as I can tell it has lousy handling. In the olden days, it was much less about grip and more about handling, which is a driver led event in a race. Mastering a car that doesn't handle particularly well, or if it handles but has very small grip, requires immense skill."

Almost every single racing game confuses the two: grip vs handling. Race cars have incredible grip, but they don't handle particularly well. Top Gear fans will remember when James May drove that Aston Martin racer on the road and realized he had made a mistake. Ton of grip, yes; but crappy handling. Gran Turismo - just like Forza, Project Cars, and many others - mistakes the two and offers less grip instead of handling. Catching a race car sliding, especially single seaters like LMP's and Formula cars, is really tricky. Ton of grip; crap handling. Drifting a Toyota GT86 is not only easy, but it's super fun! Great handling; no grip.

Gran Turismo commits the same crime as all the other racing games. I think AC deals with this the best, but my favorite will always be SimBin's GTR2 (Can't wait for GTR3 next year!)

Just gran turismo forza and project cars all handle cars differently. If you change between games you will notice how forza does one thing and gran turismo totally different on same cars handling. I think its still hard ti simate every single car to have its own character as they do in real life. Instead we have just more grip or less grip situstions

 

[Haitauer]

This question answer would be nice, adding steering wheel to it.

Is steering 1:1 without speed sensitivity on GTS now, or is that still there as on c-beta?

Will check this in half an hour. I know exactly what you mean.

Sports cars dont adjust seats. So pd went to hyper realistic i guess to make that view change as real cars would let you or not

I hope they add fov adjustment to get wider view and more sense of speed. Id want to see some more of that side window and side mirror.

This is what i use for immersion and sense of speed in assetto corsa. Not by far the best angle to place the car accurately in corners, but all the movement on the side window add so much sense of speed its a lot easier to intuitively find the braking point.

 

[Scalman2]

Yes in some cars you too close to wheel agreed. Or too high. But i adapt and overcome. Just imagine yourself as small asian guy and all will make more sense lol
And you allmost never see side mirror from cockpit.

 

[Haitauer]

Yes in some cars you too close to wheel agreed. Or too high. But i adapt and overcome. Just imagine yourself as small asian guy and all will make more sense lol
And you allmost never see side mirror from cockpit.

Well im 6'8", so its a bit hard for me to identify my self as small asian guy. Im more used to seeing the b-pillar on my view..

 

[Scalman2]

Yes and its hard to tell when view is good. If you push camera too low as i do then you cant see road ahead on some cars. In real car we move eyes to see around even without moving head and then we move head. So we just drive static in GTS .
Psvr fixes that movement. Or just move camera with analog but its messy.

 

[Flaren89]

The impressive thing is that, at least for the Alfa 4C and checking Praiano's setup, the optimal grip is achieved by putting much higher rear camber over the front, with a -2.0 on front, -2.7 on rear. Usually it is the opposite in both real life and other sims.
Also, it seems that the trick to be able to use TCS 0 is to greately reduce the LSD Acc, maybe even to minimum (5). This will give the car low capacities on using the rear to turn in acceleration, but at the same time obviously will give higher stability as the differential lock will act itself as a simil-TCS (this is quite similar to other sims, instead).
Right now, I'm driving with TCS 0 and ABS "mild" with these solutions.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Gran Turismo has always had an issue with their tire data. I've never had the opportunity to work with or even speak to any member of Polyphony's team, but I would love to have a chat with them about some of their decisions regarding the way the cars behave in this title. Having racing slicks that grip like glue in the PS3 era was annoying, but it didn't constantly instigate frustration quite like GT Sport. This is really surprising to me, given the weight this game carries as the 'iRacing of consoles' and being FIA sanctioned. Kaz isn't too bad of a driver, I hear, so it's all just really baffling to me how he can play it and think "Yes, this is how cars behave."

I see this a lot - people defending their favorite racing games online when people criticize certain aspects, such as how cars handle, only to be fooled by the idea that driving a race car is, and should be, a difficult task. I've said this before and I'll say it again - race cars are not difficult to drive. Any team that makes a race car that is difficult to drive (by modern standards) is a crap team that doesn't know how to setup the car. I drive a Porsche 911. I also race in a Porsche 911. The race car is by far the easier one to drive fast out of the two.

There's a huge distinction between grip and handling. Jeremy Clarkson said it best when he said,
"A [modern] F1 car has an immense amount of grip, but as far as I can tell it has lousy handling. In the olden days, it was much less about grip and more about handling, which is a driver led event in a race. Mastering a car that doesn't handle particularly well, or if it handles but has very small grip, requires immense skill."

Almost every single racing game confuses the two: grip vs handling. Race cars have incredible grip, but they don't handle particularly well. Top Gear fans will remember when James May drove that Aston Martin racer on the road and realized he had made a mistake. Ton of grip, yes; but crappy handling. Gran Turismo - just like Forza, Project Cars, and many others - mistakes the two and offers less grip instead of handling. Catching a race car sliding, especially single seaters like LMP's and Formula cars, is really tricky. Ton of grip; crap handling. Drifting a Toyota GT86 is not only easy, but it's super fun! Great handling; no grip.

Gran Turismo commits the same crime as all the other racing games. I think AC deals with this the best, but my favorite will always be SimBin's GTR2 (Can't wait for GTR3 next year!)

This doesn't make any sense to me. How can a race car handle badly? That seems to defy logic.

 

[Haitauer]

This question answer would be nice, adding steering wheel to it.

Is steering 1:1 without speed sensitivity on GTS now, or is that still there as on c-beta?

Good news. Its 1:1 atleast with a wheel. No change in steering angle while accelerating.

 

[PzR Slim]

Sports cars dont adjust seats. So pd went to hyper realistic i guess to make that view change as real cars would let you or not

Utter guff!

So it's PD's hyper realistic world every person is exactly the same height, has the same arm and leg length? And every single race car in a particular race car in a series has the seat in exactly the same position?

You are talking complete nonsense and making yourself look daft.

 

[Flaren89]

About the height, in actual real race cars on endurance championships, seat is placed to be comfortable to the tallest guy of the team, then other drivers got a "height increaser" additional mini-seat, to make the seat comfortable also to them.

 

[Scalman2]

Utter guff!

So it's PD's hyper realistic world every person is exactly the same height, has the same arm and leg length? And every single race car in a particular race car in a series has the seat in exactly the same position?

You are talking complete nonsense and making yourself look daft.

It was said with couple grains of salt. Games can never do what real life does .

 

[PzR Slim]

It was said with couple grains of salt. Games can never do what real life does .

Many other racing games can.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Will check this in half an hour. I know exactly what you mean.



I hope they add fov adjustment to get wider view and more sense of speed. Id want to see some more of that side window and side mirror.

This is what i use for immersion and sense of speed in assetto corsa. Not by far the best angle to place the car accurately in corners, but all the movement on the side window add so much sense of speed its a lot easier to intuitively find the braking point.

A narrower FOV is actually better for finding braking points along with placing the car accurately in corners. The downside is it looks like you're driving in slow motion sometimes

 

[ron86]

I really wish cockpit seat position could put much more forward. And optional 'look to apex' as found in some sims, for
better cornering. And a dash cam. And FOV adjustment. And optional camera shaking to improve immersion and sense of speed. Motion blur would be nice as well but not really compatible with maintaining 60 fps. And a toggle to disable the wheel. PD offers superbly detailed cockpits but not enough settings to enjoy them fully.

Motion blur is active and quite heavy on ps4 pro franerate mode while having 60fps in ganeplay. BUT........ for every view except cockpit

 

[Scaff]

Sports cars dont adjust seats. So pd went to hyper realistic i guess to make that view change as real cars would let you or not

Yes they do, I've already provided a link to show that a 911 GT3 RS has fully adjustable seats, is that not a sports car.

 

[98cwitr]

Gonna get yalls two cents on this:

 

[TheCrazySwede]

This doesn't make any sense to me. How can a race car handle badly? That seems to defy my logic.

Perhaps your sentence is better worded like that.

A very easy example to use are LMP and Formula cars. Have you ever seen the Top Gear episode where Richard tries to drive a Formula One car?
Everyone would surely agree that an F1 car has an immense amount of grip, right? I mean, just look at how fast F1 drivers set lap times and the amount of G's they pull in the corners. Then how come the poor 'Hamster' kept spinning out? Surely he's not an inexperienced driver - he drives high performance cars for a living and has been doing it for decades. Then what is it? F1 cars require you to drive them to a certain point where their aero provides you with grip. At low speeds, you either understeer like a pig or you spin like a dog chasing its own tail. This is a case of a car that handles poorly, but has a ton of grip. Even at the point of high levels of grip, every wheel, throttle and braking input has to be surgically precise.

Race cars tend to lean far more towards grip than handling, mainly because they are intended to be driven at their limit by experienced drivers.
This is another reason why cars like the Mazda 'MX5' Miata are so wonderful. They handle beautifully well and with some relatively inexpensive modifications, you can increase the amount of grip they achieve and hit the track. But you eventually get to the point where you start to sacrifice handling for grip, and that turning point is something I've never seen done right in a racing game before.

I hope that explains things a bit better.

 

[Haitauer]

A narrower FOV is actually better for finding braking points along with placing the car accurately in corners. The downside is it looks like you're driving in slow motion sometimes

Yes - narrow fow is definetely easier for precision when you know the speeds and braking points. With that wide fow I get this intuition based feeling when I'm closing in the curve too fast. Its not precise or competitive, but it is fun and immersive.

 

[Scaff]

Perhaps your sentence is better worded like that.

A very easy example to use are LMP and Formula cars. Have you ever seen the Top Gear episode where Richard tries to drive a Formula One car?
Everyone would surely agree that an F1 car has an immense amount of grip, right? I mean, just look at how fast F1 drivers set lap times and the amount of G's they pull in the corners. Then how come the poor 'Hamster' kept spinning out? Surely he's not an inexperienced driver - he drives high performance cars for a living and has been doing it for decades. Then what is it? F1 cars require you to drive them to a certain point where their aero provides you with grip. At low speeds, you either understeer like a pig or you spin like a dog chasing its own tail. This is a case of a car that handles poorly, but has a ton of grip. Even at the point of high levels of grip, every wheel, throttle and braking input has to be surgically precise.

Race cars tend to lean far more towards grip than handling, mainly because they are intended to be driven at their limit by experienced drivers.
This is another reason why cars like the Mazda 'MX5' Miata are so wonderful. They handle beautifully well and with some relatively inexpensive modifications, you can increase the amount of grip they achieve and hit the track. But you eventually get to the point where you start to sacrifice handling for grip, and that turning point is something I've never seen done right in a racing game before.

I hope that explains things a bit better.

The way in which I normally explain it (as I get exactly what you are saying) is that a large part of it is the speed at which everything is happening.

With a road car like an MX-5 the lower level of grip means that when the grip is exceeded not only is it happening at a lower speed, ut its also happening much more slowly. So its easier to predict and react to as a result.

With a race car the higher level of grip means that when the grip goes you are going much, much faster and the forces acting on the car are much higher as a result. So not only is it happening at a quicker speed, but its also happening a lot faster. As a result its far harder to react to and deal with.

That can be further compounded by having in some cases to deal with two different degrees of grip, aero and mechanical. So you have to deal with not one, but two points at which you have a loss of grip and a transition of balance.