GT Sport to not feature single player 'career' events/races?

[Furinkazen]

• Virtual Reality
• A real Online Racing Service
• A real FIA World Championship against real people
• Revolutionary Matchmaking system for Console Sim Racing
• A Focus on Sportsmanship
• Livery Editor
• The opportunity to achieve a Real World Racing License

No game has this.

But it doesn't end there. Kaz is bringing us a Direct Drive I think what we know so far should have us excited (if you are into this kind of thing).

• It is a complete race driver development program
• It is the only complete online racing service on console
• It is a World Championship with official real world recognition by what is arguably the worlds most prestigious motor racing body
• It is still a game
• It is accessible to anyone

First two we have no idea about.

 

[Nato_777]

So many What Ifs.

There's some pretty nice what if's in there though.

Unfortunately this is PD we are talking about and...
What if - they did something actually meaningful with the Senna licence in GT6!
What if - they had created a proper tie-in with Top Gear when they got the Top Gear Test Track licence!
The list goes on...

I still have hope but it's pretty miniscule.

 

[7HO]

No game has this.

Exactly but they are all features said to be in GT Sport which would make it revolutionary.

First two we have no idea about.

Yes we do. We might not have any idea if it will actually be good or effectively achieve its goals but what else do you think GT Sport needs to be a complete driver development program? And what else do you think GT Sport need to be a complete online racing service on console?

If the argument is simply "you can't trust PD will give us what they promise so this game will be no good" that is a different thread and not a argument in favour of what this thread is about and the same argument should then be applied to that feature so the result of that argument is you think PD can't make a good game and you are just using this as another opportunity to bash them. Not you specifically, anyone who would use this argument.

Come November we will see if they can deliver on their claims, history might be against them and don't get me wrong this is still a massive task they have set but the promises are not unrealistic or fantastical, it's just no one has ever done it before.

At this point we only have what we have seen and what they have told us to evaluate. If they do deliver what they have advertised and shown then GT Sport will be all of those things I said.

I'll go a bit further and say just based on what I have seen already this will be a complete driver development program and I don't even think they can stuff that up at this point.

The complete online racing service is something they can easily stuff up as it requires good matchmaking, good points systems, good netcode and good servers so fingers crossed on that one but for the purpose of this conversation we must assume they deliver on that as well since that is the whole purpose of this game.

So for the purpose of this thread if they achieve it the title is feature complete and requires nothing else. If they don't achieve it then while some may argue that online career might have saved it I would argue that the experiment must be able to stand on its own and if it cant PD have failed. I have also argued that for important reasons other than this being a complete title a traditional online career would actually be counter productive in this game and do more harm than good.

 

[Tenacious D]

So @Mike_grpA comes up with a laundry list of items where PCars beats GT hands down in terms of simulation and your grand response is that some people on another forum had some questions about tuning and making their cars faster? You realize that's not an answer right? Just to be clear, no one is slagging your "opinion" because you're not giving an opinion. Physics aren't an "opinion" they are factual, measurable and demonstrable. You can like how one car drives in a game that's an opinion, but saying the physics in one game or another is better/worse/same is up for debate.

So Mike has given an eloquent defense of his side of the discussion, where's yours? In what areas specifically is the simulation in GT6 equal to PCars? Tire model? Aero? Suspension? Brake heat? Brake wear? Damage? Race Events? Something else?

I wish you'd quit acting like I haven't touched PCARS. I bought the special edition package, my good man. I tried tuning things in different cars, and I was one of those head scratchers trying to figure out if what I was doing was having any benefit at all. I went to different forums. I went to the official PCARS foums. I didn't join after seeing a few people being threatened after some very mild ribbing. If they had people ranting and raving there like they do here, they wouldn't last long.

The long and short of it was:

• Transmissions tune as normal
• Suspensions work as far as spring rate, damping and ride height seems to have merit
• Brakes tune as normal
• Toeing might work as expected
• Anything else, who knows, results could be as much a placebo effect or practice making perfect

So, pretend I'm the only one saying this stuff all you want. I'm not. And yes, the driving in that game feels weirder than any racer I've ever experienced. (Caveat: maybe one of the dozen updates have fixed things, but I haven't touched it since November) You and many people including a few mods adore it. Awesome for you, but I don't play games based on what you think I should like and feel. And if what I experience doesn't line up with your own... well, I guess I should just keep my opinion to myself, I suppose.

At least you're finally being honest about it.

I'm always honest.

Played Assetto Corsa through the first two levels and got bored of it fairly quickly, with so few cars and hip-skip progression which is a sequence of apparently the same events each level just with different cars. Race Builder was buggy, but physics were sublime. Played RaceRoom like a fiend for weeks after getting it. Played several moths of PCARS career in GT4 class, was getting frustrated with lack of tire sound and the weather was just awful, plus the awesome sim physics were heavily oversold. Played Forza 6 as much as I could stand when I got it, which was about a month. Went back to GT6, then back to AC for a couple of user made races when I finally got it going, was sort of okay fun, great physics though. Back to a few GT4 single races in PCARS - NO weather! Then back to RaceRoom hot n heavy because physics are so much better. Played Fallout 4 like a crack addict for months. Went back to Gran Turismo because I'd spent the least time with it over the past several months, and felt like news was coming for Sport. News came, want Sport ASAP. Went back to GT6 because it's the latest GT game I have, and I can't get enough of that vast stable of cars going round all those wonderful tracks, especially the Nurb.

Satisfied?

 

[Mike_grpA]

• Transmissions tune as normal
• Suspensions work as far as spring rate, damping and ride height seems to have merit
• Brakes tune as normal
• Toeing might work as expected

Anything else, who knows, results could be as much a placebo effect or practice making perfect

I'll gloss over the fact that you didn't answer his question at all.

Let's address that last point there. I know that the front and rear downforce adjustments make a very obvious difference to the car's handling. I even found out, through seemingly endless hours spent just playing around with the set up on a Formula A car at Imola, that running too much positive rake will stall the diffuser, and that requires a complex aero model for that to happen. I spent ages changing things to find out if that was what was happening, after accidentally stumbling upon that finding, and although I'm not sure how many cars this applies to, as it would depend on how much the car relies on the floor for downforce, but I found a point where slightly less rake led to very stable high speed peak downforce, and just a tiny bit more would have the car breaking away violently at high speeds. A similar effect can be experienced when running in a leading car's wake through high speed corners, you lose a significant amount of your front downforce. You can also notice when running in the leading car's wake that due to these effects, your braking distances will be dramatically increased. I'll admit to rear-ending the AI a number of times because of that.

I know that the differential settings all make an enormous difference to the car's balance. The diff has been modeled really well actually, as you can spend quite a lot of time fine-tuning it to really get the balance as close as possible to how you like it. Considering how atrocious the stock setup is for almost every car in Pcars (thanks to devs trying to make the cars tame for pad users), almost every car will benefit from changing the diff setup first. Some cars you can get a good enough balance from diff changes, that you don't need to mess with the suspension if you don't want to. Of course, taking the time to tweak everything will net you more time, but if you're trying to progress through the career, and can't be bothered changing too much, the diff is the first place you should start.

Even things like dropping the boost a bit on the turbocharged cars can lead to quicker lap times. I know it sounds counter-productive, but some of the turbo cars are just animals at the boost threshold. Reducing the boost smooths out the transition onto boost, and that can make the car a lot easier to drive consistently. You may be able to get a faster lap time on full boost, after doing a bunch of laps to really nail than one great lap, but during the race you could easily end up being too inconsistent, and having a comfortable setup is equally important in a race to having a quick car.

Anyway, this is way off topic now, so that's the last I'll say on that topic here.

 

[cocoflowa]

Sport mode looks similar to seasonal events from GT6 to me which is always included single player races and challenges.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I wish you'd quit acting like I haven't touched PCARS. I bought the special edition package, my good man. I tried tuning things in different cars, and I was one of those head scratchers trying to figure out if what I was doing was having any benefit at all. I went to different forums. I went to the official PCARS foums. I didn't join after seeing a few people being threatened after some very mild ribbing. If they had people ranting and raving there like they do here, they wouldn't last long.

The long and short of it was:

• Transmissions tune as normal
• Suspensions work as far as spring rate, damping and ride height seems to have merit
• Brakes tune as normal
• Toeing might work as expected
• Anything else, who knows, results could be as much a placebo effect or practice making perfect

So you completely sidestepped my point as @Mike_grpA noted above but lets look at the things you did mention:

• Transmission tune as normal in PCars. In GT transmission tuning is anything but normal. No changing of actual fixed gears which is what happens in real life and a sim and a transmission flipping trick that magically reduces laptimes.
• Ride height tuning is backwards in GT, it's not backwards in PCars it works as it's supposed to.
• Brake tuning is normal in PCars, in GT is rudimentary at best. The scale is nowhere near fine enough for real brake tuning nor does it simulate any real life scale I'm aware of.

So of in three of the four things you mentioned, in GT it's either completely backwards or bears no resemblence to anything real world. So, again, I ask, since you made the claim, where are these areas where PCars and GT physics are comparable. What about aero? What about volumetric throttle response? What about tire heat build up, retention and dissapation? What about camber?

Race Builder was buggy, but physics were sublime.

What was buggy about it?

 

[Samus]

Sport mode looks similar to seasonal events from GT6 to me which is always included single player races and challenges.

It isn't.

In "Sport Mode", the online feature of Gran Turismo Sport, there will be two FIA-certified online championship series running at the same time.

The concept of sports isn't restricted to only the top players who try to dominate their field. Rather, it’s meant for anyone who finds an activity they enjoy and then works to improve at it in a quest to meet or surpass their potential. Introducing a sportsmanship point system evaluating online race behaviour, a player’s skill and behaviour will be judged in daily races, and players with the same level will be matched in a fair manner.

 

[cocoflowa]

It isn't.

Hmmm yes you are right. But do you think there will be endurance online races? 0:42 looks like classic GT career endurance races next to fia championship.

 

[Samus]

They say 'next round' on them, so yes, I think they are still timed online events. The names are probably just placeholders. If they were like seasonal events you'd be able to enter at any time, not wait for the next round.

 

[Soundtrack]

They could also be kind of seasonals championships with multiple races in succession unlocking over a certain amount of time with a given timeframe to complete them, maybe. (?)

 

[Samus]

They could also be kind of seasonals championships with multiple races in succession unlocking over a certain amount of time with a given timeframe to complete them, maybe. (?)

I mean I'm not going to say you're wrong, I don't know, but it seems rather unlikely to me.

 

[cocoflowa]

They say 'next round' on them, so yes, I think they are still timed online events. The names are probably just placeholders. If they were like seasonal events you'd be able to enter at any time, not wait for the next round.

Okay. We will see after E3 PD still can surprise us with more content. I don't beleve there won't be more sigle player races but If that's true I see whole GT sport as GT7 takes too long to finish so they made GT sport just by side.

 

[FS7]

Any news on whether we'll be able to setup proper races offline in arcade mode? Or are we going to be limited to casual arcade races like in GT6?

 

[Mike_grpA]

I see an alarming amount of people that keep telling others things are 'placeholders', and that we've got so long 'till the game comes out that the things people aren't happy with are likely to be fixed, and things like damage are likely only missing because PD haven't finished them yet, and will be in the final product.

I mean, you could be right, but just think about how likely it is that such complex parts of the game, like sounds or damage, will be changed dramatically between now and the game's release date. How much about the physics and sounds were changed between GT5: Prologue and GT5? That came out three years before GT5... If I were a betting man, I'd say the game is 99% finished, and the only things PD will be doing between now and release will be bug fixes, final polishing of the assets (things like adding small signs of life to the tracks, or touching up any textures they're not happy with), and thorough testing of their servers (GT6 levels of online instability will not be acceptable in this title).

All I'm trying to say is don't get hyped up for stuff you haven't seen. If damage isn't in the game yet, odds are it's not coming. Look at the physics when a car rear ends the car in front, it's identical to GT5 and GT6 bumper car physics, and not at all how cars behave in real life when that happens. If they were going to add a quality damage model, they would have the contact physics a lot more advanced than they are.

How much of this kind of stuff changed between GT5: Prologue and GT5? Or even GT5: P and GT6? Because there were years between those titles, not 6 months. The pace PD work at, 6 months is barely enough time to do QA testing.

 

[Nato_777]

However Kaz has already said that they have damage pretty much ready they just didn't include it in the version used for the pre season test. We don't know what else they left out of that version as well - it was really only what they needed to be functional for the purpose of that event.

 

[7HO]

However Kaz has already said that they have damage pretty much ready they just didn't include it in the version used for the pre season test. We don't know what else they left out of that version as well - it was really only what they needed to be functional for the purpose of that event.

This could be a sign that the damage is decent, fingers crossed. If they had iRacing style damage at that event few cars would have finished so I'm hoping this is a sign that damage is realistic.

 

[Tenacious D]

I'll gloss over the fact that you didn't answer his question at all.

So you completely sidestepped my point as @Mike_grpA noted above

Okay, excuse the omission because it was way past my bedtime when I posted that, but briefly because this is pretty much off the thread topic, if PCARS is simulating those things, lovely for them. I have never said anything about GT's aero modeling being wonderfully realistic for example. The whole quarter mile or so of draft is pretty well known. GT has no pressure modeling and has a very basic tire model. Damage modeling is barely there to speak of. There are a whole list of things that Gran Turismo lacks, at least currently, to make it a seriously real sim. Though I suppose it's totally okay for you guys to ignore everything I've said as far as car handling in PCARS being something weird, at least to some people. But I'm used to that. Maybe realistic car handling doesn't matter in regards to racing sims, who knows anymore. Earth is a strange place these days.

Since we're never going to come to terms with that, let's at least get back to the topic with what PCARS offers on the subject. Its single player structure is very good. It has a nice race builder, and if you like their weather system, you can even have that occasional downpour. Sad to say, GT Sport isn't going to offer weather and time as variable through a race. If Sport doesn't have anything as far as even a race maker feature as of E3 news, we should ask for this at least in Arcade Mode. This is something I've been nudging the forum on, to ask for things now, because Kaz has mentioned that he could make GT Sport grow over time like the last three GT titles. Prologue had double the car count after a patch, and High Speed Ring added in.

Most humans respond favorably to polite requests, and Kaz is a human, last I checked.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Okay, excuse the omission because it was way past my bedtime when I posted that, but briefly because this is pretty much off the thread topic, if PCARS is simulating those things, lovely for them. I have never said anything about GT's aero modeling being wonderfully realistic for example. The whole quarter mile or so of draft is pretty well known. GT has no pressure modeling and has a very basic tire model. Damage modeling is barely there to speak of. There are a whole list of things that Gran Turismo lacks, at least currently, to make it a seriously real sim.

Exactly why your claim that Pcars is no better a sim than GT is ridiculous.

Though I suppose it's totally okay for you guys to ignore everything I've said as far as car handling in PCARS being something weird, at least to some people. But I'm used to that. Maybe realistic car handling doesn't matter in regards to racing sims, who knows anymore. Earth is a strange place these days.

I didn't ignore any of that, I addressed it specifically. Your claim that only a few of the set up options actually affected the car's handling and laptimes is complete nonsense, and as I already said, the other options all do equally affect the cars, and some even more so. As I said, the only bit that doesn't make much of a difference is camber, and I've grilled SMS hardcore over that, but GT6's camber does literally nothing, so it's hardly a win for PD in that department.

As for what other people think, I couldn't care less. The review you posted was a rant about how AC is better than Pcars, and most of what the writer claimed about Pcars was flat out wrong. He claimed you can floor it off the grid in any car without any issues, which is just not true. Maybe he played with all the assists on, I don't know, but that "article" looked like an AC fanboy ranting about how Pcars isn't as good as AC. I noticed he failed to mention any of AC's shortcomings or issues. Basically it read like a pretendracecars article. Now I've got nothing against AC, and as I've said, it does some things better than Pcars, but Pcars does some things equally better than AC. However, AC was not what this was about.

Saying stuff like "Maybe realistic car handling doesn't matter in regards to racing sims, who knows anymore.", is a bit rich from the bloke who claimed GT6 is as good a sim as Pcars lol. If you don't think Pcars physics are realistic, and you consider them "weird", but you continually praise the physics in GT6, I have serious doubts that you have even driven a car in anger, much less raced a real car.

 

[TurismoBad]

However Kaz has already said that they have damage pretty much ready they just didn't include it in the version used for the pre season test. We don't know what else they left out of that version as well - it was really only what they needed to be functional for the purpose of that event.

From how he said it - probably just some generic mechanical like in GT6.

 

[mjm23race]

I don't get how PD always gets caught with their pants down? Ps4 has been out for over 2 years and in development for way longer than that. Gt5 5+ years old (I guess there was gt6 in there, but that was more like gt5.5). How is this game going to be a "spin off" when they don't even have a modern game to spin off of?

I know the hardcore online racers will benefit and won't care if there is no single player racing. I think GT appeals to a much larger audience than just the online only crowd. GT appeals to the masses and that's why it sells millions of copies of the game. I for one like to just turn on the system and have a race, without having to look for decent people to play with online, and wait for others to join and so on. Plus my gaming time is fairly limited due to life getting in the way, so I'm guessing I'd be ranked high enough to always get stuck racing scrubs. Or get destroyed by those much better than myself.

And don't say just wait for gt7. By the time that comes out itll be just in time for the PS5 to have been out for a couple of years.

 

[Ferrari458Italia]

Oh god this game is just more disappointments after another week by week.... god damn PD

 

[FS7]

I saw in another forum someone make a typo in the game's title: "Gran Turismo Short". Well, I think it was a typo.

 

[Tenacious D]

Your claim that only a few of the set up options actually affected the car's handling and laptimes is complete nonsense, and as I already said, the other options all do equally affect the cars, and some even more so.

Yeah... guess all those net debates for months are from kids who just found out that racing transmissions can be fiddled with. But anyway, I will say nothing further about your precious. Heck, I might even try it out again this weekend along with AC and RR. But I wouldn't wait for any reports of epiphany, unless all those patches changed matters.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yeah... guess all those net debates for months are from kids who just found out that racing transmissions can be fiddled with. But anyway, I will say nothing further about your precious. Heck, I might even try it out again this weekend along with AC and RR. But I wouldn't wait for any reports of epiphany, unless all those patches changed matters.

Many net debates are based around people who don't know what they're talking about but you know that already. Just because someone can't figure out how to tune a transmission or the suspension or the aero or isn't skilled enough as a driver to figure out how to take advantage of it, doesn't mean there's something off in the physics. Witness the camber debate in GT6. Time and time again aliens set the fastest laps in TT's and posted tunes with zero camber but people still insisted that camber worked "for them". We opened more than one thread to test camber and it's effects and time and time again it was shown to have little to no effect on overall lap times except in limited conditions where it had a minimal effect yet people still insisted it was business as usual.

Perhaps you could post a link or two to these massive debates so we could see what you're talking about.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Yeah... guess all those net debates for months are from kids who just found out that racing transmissions can be fiddled with. But anyway, I will say nothing further about your precious. Heck, I might even try it out again this weekend along with AC and RR. But I wouldn't wait for any reports of epiphany, unless all those patches changed matters.

"I read somewhere that some people don't think it's realistic, so it isn't". You do realise that not many people who play these games actually know much, if anything, about setting up race cars, right? How about instead of being so vague about your claims, you show us some specific examples. What parts don't have much of an effect? Be specific.

Also, you keep saying things like "I will say nothing further about your precious" to both myself and Johnny, when if you had half a brain in your head, you'd be able to find a large number of posts from both of us talking about things that are wrong with Pcars, and arguing with people who think it's perfect. Your ridiculous claim, that I rubbished, was that Pcars is no more a sim than GT6. Now unless you literally think GT6 is a perfect simulation, me saying that Pcars is far better a sim than GT6 is not the same thing as me saying Pcars is perfect, or that no other sim is better.

 

[Tenacious D]

Perhaps you could post a link or two to these massive debates so we could see what you're talking about.

Now Johnny, you were one of those beta testers from what I gather, so you must have seen some of the disgruntled who were booted and ended up at NeoGAF and some other sites. I would not be mentioning this issue if I found the answers I was seeking online back in October. I didn't look this weekend because I didn't feel like wasting an hour or more of my precious free time to go ferreting up info, I just wanted to race. But you and Mike_grpA can rest easy now, I raced in PCARS this weekend and actually enjoyed it. Was so distracted by it that I didn't touch Assetto Corsa or my two preciouses. Now look, this is really off topic, so let's make some effort to swing it back on the topic in some form or fashion, and you can go back to liking each other's posts.

Right now, all we can see of any offline stuff to play with are those lovely driving school and challenge things, and Arcade Mode. The PCARS version, Solo Race, is good enough for me because PCARS has no discrete rewards besides trophies and accolades. If nothing else is revealed at E3, do you think we should ask for goodies to beef up Arcade Mode. Ask for a separate single player something, like an Event Maker?

It's funny how well I get along over at Sector 3 forums, even when I raise issues over there, go figure.

 

[Mike_grpA]

I didn't feel like wasting an hour or more of my precious free time to go ferreting up info

That's convenient, the old "I don't have time for this" get out of jail free card, guaranteed to get you out of losing arguments every time

Now look, this is really off topic, so let's make some effort to swing it back on the topic in some form or fashion...

I agree, if only someone hadn't made ridiculous off topic claims they couldn't back up we wouldn't have gone off on that particular tangent.

and you can go back to liking each other's posts.

Believe it or not, me and Johnny don't always agree, I just find I agree with him more often than not. I am always willing to admit fault, or when I'm proven wrong, and I don't blindly like people's posts just to spite you believe it or not. I like posts I agree with, regardless of who's posts they are. If you post something I agree with, or which I find useful, I'll give it a like without a second thought, so there's no need to be childish about it.

It's funny how well I get along over at Sector 3 forums, even when I raise issues over there, go figure.

If the "issues" you had raised in this forum had any correlation to reality, you wouldn't have found any opposition. Don't play the victim.

Right now, all we can see of any offline stuff to play with are those lovely driving school and challenge things, and Arcade Mode. The PCARS version, Solo Race, is good enough for me because PCARS has no discrete rewards besides trophies and accolades. If nothing else is revealed at E3, do you think we should ask for goodies to beef up Arcade Mode. Ask for a separate single player something, like an Event Maker?

Now this I can agree with. Personally, I prefer the career mode in Pcars, even though the scripted weather annoys me. Solo Race is great for setting up everything how you like it, including customising the weather to be how you want it, or just going random, However, I was hugely disappointed that SMS didn't include custom championships. I mean, once you've finished the career, you've got nothing but hotlaps and one off races to do. There's no point replaying seasons of career you've already done, because the weather will be the same as the last time. Hopefully custom championships make it into Pcars 2, considering it's a highly requested feature.

As for having something like that in GTS, it would only be useful if they've overhauled the AI. If it's the same brain dead rubber band AI as last time, it's probably not such a bad thing that they've binned most of the single player modes. If they can dish up some decent AI, then I think a race, or even better championship, creator would be very much appreciated by fans.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Now Johnny, you were one of those beta testers from what I gather,

You gathered wrong. Doesn't surprise me though. I never once posted that I was a tester, never once indicated I was playing the game before it launched and yet for several years now you've assumed I was a beta tester. Nothing ironic there, not at all.

so you must have seen some of the disgruntled who were booted and ended up at NeoGAF and some other sites.

No idea what you're talking about, I don't go to NeoGAF.

I would not be mentioning this issue if I found the answers I was seeking online back in October. I didn't look this weekend because I didn't feel like wasting an hour or more of my precious free time to go ferreting up info, I just wanted to race.

As expected. Careful you don't trip from backpedaling so fast.

But you and Mike_grpA can rest easy now, I raced in PCARS this weekend and actually enjoyed it. Was so distracted by it that I didn't touch Assetto Corsa or my two preciouses. Now look, this is really off topic, so let's make some effort to swing it back on the topic in some form or fashion, and you can go back to liking each other's posts.

Of course, let's get back on topic so you can continue to make sweeping claims about games other than Gran Turismo and hope no one calls you on it.

 

[Zibster]

career mode (mostly endurance races and the like) was always a reason for me to get the new GT, but now I really don't have the urge to be hooked on GTS