GT Sport to not feature single player 'career' events/races?

[Tenacious D]

Anyway I'm curious. Can you help me understand what it is about PCARS that makes it like GT and Forza? Are the physics too dumbed down? Do you not like the FFB? Or are there too many gamer options? Or is it something else.

EDIT: I'm just adding that I'm still shaking my head and wondering what the because if you think RR is better than PCARS it must be really bad because IMO RR is an oddball, it isn't sim worthy in 2016, it doesn't compare to the racing games, it's just free to play with competitions and I think if it wasn't those 2 things no one would play it.

I'm wondering about your reaction too. Now being an iRacing fan, you lot are known to be hard to please, and I actually came across a review by some sim racing site that stated AC was simcade! Which really caught me off guard.

Maybe it's because I bought RR rather late last year when I sprained my back and wanted an early birthday present, that it feels very simmy. They have updated the physics a number of times, with an awful lot of direct involvement by real world race car drivers from GT3 and other classes, so maybe I'm reaping the benefits of this and you hadn't had a chance to experience it. I do know that when I take similar race cars around the same or similar tracks in AC and RR, I have very close to the same feel, and have very close lap times. The street cars in AC, which don't exist in RaceRoom, have very nice characteristics.

Have you actually counted how many duplicates Pcars has? Because it's 2.

Yes, but I was responding to Imari who ribbed GT Sport for what I read as counting street cars and race cars as different machines. If that's not what they meant, I apologize. I know that PCARS has a nice list with just the one dupe and is no big deal.

Now, about PCARS. I know that SMS have made great effort to model as much as they possibly can in their game, and some of that is very good. However, a lot of things that people claim to be so advanced in PCARS doesn't seem to matter much or offer much difference at all when it comes to both car handling and lap times. I know it's the same situation in Gran Turismo, when in GT5 and 6 you adjust camber, and it's not exactly clear if it's helping your lap times and ability to take turns, or if you just have more practice to go by. A lot of the adjustments in PCARS is debated in various boards because it doesn't seem to make much difference at all what you change, other than brake adjustments, and it's a no brainer that you want your suspension as low as it will safely go, but even that seems to be iffy as far as performance difference.

Also, street cars, the one type of car we can all drive ourselves, feels funny to me. Frankly, it feels like a game which is a mod of an old racer like rFactor, where someone toyed with the physics. Some aspects of pushing a car are quite satsfactory, others not, and it's been a while so I couldn't nail down exactly why I have trouble feeling good about the few sports cars in the game. Frankly, yes, taking a sports car on comfort tires in GT6 gives me a more realistic experience. In Forza 4, some things even better, such as the feeling of instability when a car is being pushed close to the edge of stability which doesn't happen in Gran Turismo. The cars always feel nice and planted, and all you get out of them is a loss of grip which is often hard to judge just where it is that you're losing it. Still, a few pro drivers like Tiff Needell like Forza, but put Gran Turismo a tic ahead for getting more things right. Give me a street car in Assetto Corsa though, and now you're talking. The physics, handling, and kinetics of pushing a car hard are tangible, familiar and believable. It feels like just about everything is there, and well modeled.

Online, there are a lot of gushing reviews of PCARS, and I don't really quibble about all that much until they start talking amazing physics and handling. This guy is a sim critic and expresses his issues with PCARS much better than me.

Project Cars does have advantages to other sims in places, but they never really feel fully realised due to simplifications of other parts of the driving model. For example, the game features proper race starts with clutch control and jump starts, but when you can floor the throttle off the start in any car with no issue it sort of misses the point as everything boils down to the fastest reaction time and little else. The game also features brake wear, heating and cooling and brake fade, but most people won't ever feel the difference as the effect can only really be felt when pushing road cars (which I wouldn't drive in the first place as I'll explain in a bit) or driving very long stints in race cars that most people won't ever do. It has great intentions but they feel wasted.

Some cars are still a legitimate challenge to master in Project CARS, namely the old Lotus F1 cars, but none of those ever feel right compared to versions released in other sims. The Lotus 49 and 98T are two of my favourite cars in AC and both are an enormous challenge to drive quickly. Yet in Project CARS they feel lifeless and seemingly don't communicate their grip to the player anywhere near as well as they do in AC, and in my mind have the weirdest force feedback of any set of cars in the game.

I think that's a core problem with Project CARS on PC really. Most of the cars in it seem to already be available in other sims or at least have similar class cars to use, and in most cases they are done better there. The GT cars are OK in Project CARS but pale in comparison to AC and iRacing. Both old and new touring cars are done better in Raceroom Racing Experience, open-wheelers are done better in GSCE, etc. Right now the only cars I'd want to drive in Project CARS are the prototypes, a few of the track day cars and the karts if I'm feeling a little crazy. There's so much content available in it but so much of it feels like padding for us in the sim racing community. A similar feeling applies to the tracks too which I'll elaborate on when I get around to that later.

To me the ambition of Project CARS to be the ultimate car game for both PC and consoles is just that: ambition. Forza and GT do their jobs well as console sims, and us guys on PC will likely flock to other sims that cater to our requirement of feeling great on wheels with richer physics. Being able to provide a decent experience at both is something Project CARS does well, but it excels in neither area.

I would really only recommend Project CARS as a main sim for someone who doesn't own any of the current sims out there but wants to move up from the Codemasters racing games and Forza/GT on consoles, or alternatively find the current selection of hardcore sims too difficult and want to move a step down. The amount of content provided is great for those who don't own other sims and don't have the time to look into downloading mods for said sims.

However if you want to drive some everyday road cars on a PC sim, stick to AC no matter what. Project CARS' roster of road cars are pretty much the donkey class of the game. They are on the whole just not fun to drive and hardly are a model of how a sim should handle road cars. You know there's something wrong when driving a road car at moderate speed is harder than throwing a F1 car through Ascari at Monza at 200 kph. The selection of road cars in AC have character and a suspension model unparalleled at this point. In Project CARS, they feel like solid blocks of metal driving on a small central pivot point that still wants to understeer everywhere. They are a nightmare to drive with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

I also have a small nitpick that cold tyre temperatures seem overblown compared to other sims and doesn't feel as gradual to warm up as it does in AC and GSCE. While it isn't scripted and can be brought up to temp quicker through weaving, heaving braking, etc., the grip from cold to warm tyres seems like an on/off switch. I am also yet to feel any real effects from tyre wear either, but I haven't really done any long-distance driving in Project CARS yet to test that out. Tracks seem to grip up dynamically but it's hard to prove at this point as there's no visual cue for it at all, so it could just be me improving as I get to grips with the cars more than anything else.

 

[7HO]

and I actually came across a review by some sim racing site that stated AC was simcade! Which really caught me off guard.

I can understand why they said that. If iRacing, AC and Burnout were the only 3 games then iRacing would be Sim, burnout would be arcade and AC would be simcade. It is a stupid term that means more to the writer than the reader because it is a relative statement. AC is a simulation that employs gaming elements that are not simulation to make it more accessible to non hardcore typical gamers. iRacing is absolutely no compromise (except when it isn't), for the most part if it isn't real iRacing doesn't want to put it in but lately they have been just a little flexible with that policy and some members haven't been happy.

Maybe it's because I bought RR

Hang on Raceroom is free.

They have updated the physics a number of times, with an awful lot of direct involvement by real world race car drivers from GT3 and other classes, so maybe I'm reaping the benefits of this and you hadn't had a chance to experience it. I do know that when I take similar race cars around the same or similar tracks in AC and RR, I have very close to the same feel, and have very close lap times. The street cars in AC, which don't exist in RaceRoom, have very nice characteristics.

Everytime someone speaks about RR like this I have gone back and checked it, last time was just a few weeks ago. And everytime I regret the download (because the updates are always huge) because when I test it I have the same experience. I test the GT3 cars because that's my thing and to me they feel dead, it feels like a console racer with basic physics and average FFB. As I switch between cars it is like how I remember race cars on GT, yes this one feels like the engine is in the front and that one has the engine in the back, oh look this one also has the engine in the front and feels just like that last one I drove with the engine in the front. They all feel similar and by that standard pretty dead. The physics just seem too basic and remind me of the previous Simbin games but with slightly improved FFB, but I like the Simbin games more.

Jump over to AC and the cars come alive, switch from the Z4 GT3 to the AMG GT3 and it is believable, the cars are very different. Switch to iRacing and try the same cars and other than iRacing sounding better it's almost like I'm driving the same cars. Up to a point because when you start optimising each with setups then AC starts to fail in comparison but AC is great and iRacing also has its wonky moments.

I know it's the same situation in Gran Turismo, when in GT5 and 6 you adjust camber, and it's not exactly clear if it's helping your lap times and ability to take turns, or if you just have more practice to go by.

Small adjustments in camber shouldn't significantly alter your laptimes, sometimes even big changes will not they will simply move where you are fast in a lap. In a realistic sim what such a change can do though is result in your times dropping off more quickly. Further in a realistic sim due to the way tyre temperatures are effected a wrong change can initially hide another bad setup choice and make you think the camber choice was good, say you tyre temps are not optimal but the way camber initially effects you tyre temps brings them to optimal initially and then times drop off quickly. This is a lot like the differences between a qualifying setup and a race setup. I doubt this stuff will come into play in GTS. You will probably test until you find the magic settings which are nothing like real life but OP.

Online, there are a lot of gushing reviews of PCARS, and I don't really quibble about all that much until they start talking amazing physics and handling. This guy is a sim critic and expresses his issues with PCARS much better than me.

And there we go, another one. This guy actually makes me want to buy it.

 

[Tenacious D]

This guy actually makes me want to buy it.

Well, then I guess I did a good deed tonight.

As for RaceRoom being free, it is... but that's the core game with a handful of cars and a track or three. The rest of the content is all for sale, and it adds up almost as fast as the stuff iRenting offers, as I joshingly refer to it. Now the problem, at least in the past has been that the physics aren't the same as it is in the pay content, and there has been a lot of wrangling with the folk at the S3 forums over the issue. Someone had said that the money guys who own controlling interest in the studio have ordered them to work on the paid content and let the demo stuff carry on as it always has, which from what I understand of them wouldn't surprise me.

Now, the team did mention that one of the things on their itinerary was to port that physics code over, but we've also been clamoring for the team to migrate it and the tire model in the latest build of the DTM 2015 "Experience" or mini-game, with its own self-contained racing season. So what the team actually has done, I couldn't say, because I've frankly been tied up with Fallout 4 for several months now. Lost track of my chums over there.

As for my camber example, I guess I lost myself between the lap times and the handling, which I agree, the laptimes of a tune might not be all that different, but the handling improvements and the confidence they instill matter a bit more. In the case of both GT and PCARS, some adjustments don't seem to do anything, though lowering the cars in GT do help like it should.

I'm glad you like his review, but his discussion of handling make it seem even worse to me now. But the point of all these dames is that you pick whatever pleases you and you run with them. And PCARS sure has its adherents. If you get it, have fun and make sure and critique it in the PCARS section. I'd be interested in what you think of your new ride.

Oh yes, one more thing, just in case this was addressed to me.

Playing the "you like something I don't, you must be playing it wrong" card again I see.

Err... if you're saying that I'm saying that playing a racing game with a controller isn't the same as playing it with a wheel, yes, I'm saying that. Not wrong, but it is a completely different experience, and a whole lot of people say this too. I refer my friend to remarks made I believe by Nato_777 some moments ago about driving a real life car with a controller. Yes, James Bond did it, but I'm betting he'd rather have his hands on a wheel when it counts.

Also let's be honest you'll be happy with anything if GT is on the box. You've spent years arguing that you'll be very upset to lose standard cars and now not only are they gone but so are the premiums and you're apparently also happy with that.

Do I want a new Gran Turismo game? Yes. Most of us here seem to be afflicted with that madness. Do we want it to be improved? Yes. GT6 was better than 5. I actually took to those dinkmobiles this game, only got an oil change when the car needed it this time. Haven't touched GT5 since getting 6. Does it seem from most reports that GT Sport is even better? Yes. Do you distrust your fellow Planeteers who were there that much?

Do I want the Standards? Yes, yes I do, tracks too, as ugly as they also are. I want a thousand cars to explore that new physics with, not a piddling hundred some odd, and around 50 locations and more. That may come for GT7, but who can say now? If the GT6 models aren't technically compatible with what Kazunori and the team are doing, what am I supposed to do? Play Forza? Mine is broken, and I'm just not into it anymore. Play PCARS? It's not as good to me. Play DriveClub? I don't like it. Play Assetto Corsa? It's even smaller than Sport and I'm a bit bored with the repetitive single player grind. Play RaceRoom? I could, but it's not Gran Turismo. Play iRacing, a game with no single player at ALL, even more expensive than RR and which is said to have the usual driving on ice feeling? Oh heck no.

If I want Gran Turismo, there's only one game in town. So BRING IT!!

 

[Imari]

This stems from people having no idea what goes into making games like this. I'm sure from reading comments that people think these guys scan a car and then just press some keys on a computer and next thing you know you have a simulation.

You can think whatever you like. I'm more than well aware that making a physics engine that's even moderately accurate is a fairly serious undertaking. If you'd bothered to read the whole conversation instead of just jumping with both feet you'd see that earlier I'd stated that GT does just fine, but they're not on the level of the "big boys" of simulation.

Which is true. The Gran Turismo simulation engine simply isn't on the level of iRacing, AC or rFactor. And almost certainly not for lack of time or money.

We are talking about mathematical calculations on a level that the average person can't wrap their mind around, these guys are trying to recreate the physics of the world using math, seriously advanced math and while some of it can be found in a book, many of the critical parts can't and these guys are inventing the math.

Let's not get carried away now. They're adapting mathematical techniques in order to try and replicate physical behaviour in the most accurate and computationally efficient way possible.

The tough bit is tyres and surface interactions, because getting decent data is hard and a lot of it is either not terribly well understood or requires major computational horsepower to do accurately. Modelling these things efficiently enough for a console or PC requires insight and understanding.

On the other hand, modelling springs and dampers is not high level math, it's high school math. If your tyres are bricks that simply reference the Magic Formula, then the whole simulation becomes not really that complicated. It's still probably large as the amount of things that need to interact and be simulated is quite high, but no individual component is really that brain bending.

 

[7HO]

The rest of the content is all for sale,

In RR you can actually try every car in the game before you buy it. I think it would be a great idea if everything I tried wasn't terrible.

 

[Mike_grpA]

I really can't see how this is a debate. It is not called a Prologue

I've seen nobody claim that it is called a prologue. The claim made by various people is that the game essentially is a prologue, not that it's literally called prologue. It's a fair assessment too, as people have previous prologues to go off when they decide whether this title is closer to what those games offered than the main releases. It's got a tenth of the cars of GT6, and 27 track layouts, compared to GT6's 86 layouts. Sure, it's got an iRacing style esports setup to it's online functionality, but it's also completely lacking any offline content other than a basic arcade mode and a handful of tutorials. Considering what GT6 offered for the money, GTS is much closer to a prologue than what everyone was expecting the next full fat GT game to offer.

Now, about PCARS. I know that SMS have made great effort to model as much as they possibly can in their game, and some of that is very good. However, a lot of things that people claim to be so advanced in PCARS doesn't seem to matter much or offer much difference at all when it comes to both car handling and lap times.

This is the funniest thing I've read all day. So your defense of this claim:

I would also say that PCARS isn't more of a sim than Gran Turismo and Forza.

... is to claim that the many things Pcars simulates, that GT6 doesn't, don't matter, or don't offer much of a difference? Wow... Sure, why bother simulating tyre pressures IN A SIMULATOR? I mean, GT games have never had it, so it mustn't be necessary to simulate, right?

What is the point of a racing simulator if it's not to try and simulate racing? If you had said "I don't need any more realism than I find in GT6", nobody could argue with you. But you didn't, you claimed that Project CARS isn't more of a simulator than Gran Turismo, which is objectively wrong. You then try to back up this ridiculous claim by saying that simulating things like tyre temps, tyre flex, tyre pressure, brake temp, brake wear, aerodynamics, proper suspension kinematics, damage, and more, are just not necessary to produce an accurate driving simulator. Not only that, but you claim that those things don't make much difference at all to car handling or lap times, and this is also wrong. Changing the set up of the cars in Pcars makes a massive difference to how the car feels, and how quickly you can turn laps in it.

As I said before, and have ripped on Pcars in the past for, the only thing that doesn't work properly is camber, in that it's effect is weak. It does have an effect, but it's extremely subtle. Everything else works very well.

I don't really know why I'm bothering to reply anyway, as it's obvious to anyone who's seen some of your posts that you think GT is the greatest ever, and you'll buy literally any tripe that Kaz puts the GT name on, and then go tell everyone it's amazing.

 

[Nato_777]

GT Sport will only essentially be a prologue if the next GT is a more fully featured esport title again.

 

[Com Fox]

GT Sport will only essentially be a prologue if the next GT is a more fully featured esport title again.

Not necessary IMO. Content from the Prologues are taken out from the actual games when release.

Where is GT5Ps online matchmaking in GT5? Where are the "/Tuned" version of some cars (I say some because some did kind of return as RM cars). The ability to race the F2007 car with every other car was removed too from the Prologue.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Not necessary IMO. Content from the Prologues are taken out from the actual games when release.

Where is GT5Ps online matchmaking in GT5? Where are the "/Tuned" version of some cars (I say some because some did kind of return as RM cars". The ability to race the F2007 car with every other car was removed too from the Prologue.

True, but it'd make no sense for PD to abandon the FIA partnership after one title, especially when that title is very content limited compared to the full fat GT releases. But since it would make no sense to do it, PD will probably do it. lol.

 

[Com Fox]

True, but it'd make no sense for PD to abandon the FIA partnership after one title, especially when that title is very content limited compared to the full fat GT releases. But since it would make no sense to do it, PD will probably do it. lol.

Unless if the partnership completely flopped once released.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Unless if the partnership completely flopped once released.

Yeah, of course that will be a possibility. With GTS being so different to full GT releases, PD risk alienating their fan base. If the game doesn't do well, particularly if the amount of people playing regularly isn't impressive enough, the FIA may decide it's a waste of time, and call it a day. The FIA are notoriously fickle, and knee-jerk reactions are their signature dish.

 

[Nato_777]

Not necessary IMO. Content from the Prologues are taken out from the actual games when release.

Where is GT5Ps online matchmaking in GT5? Where are the "/Tuned" version of some cars (I say some because some did kind of return as RM cars). The ability to race the F2007 car with every other car was removed too from the Prologue.

Certain content can be removed from a prologue by it's successor but not the core element. If esport is removed from the next GT it will leave Sport as a unique stand alone in the series.

 

[Com Fox]

Certain content can be removed from a prologue by it's successor but not the core element. If esport is removed from the next GT it will leave Sport as a unique stand alone in the series.

GT5P core was its online feature since it was the first of its kind (GT Kind), so if GT5 removed it, that would mean GT5P would be its own standalone game?

 

[Nato_777]

No because that was not the whole premise of the game. Only certain functionally was removed too.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Certain content can be removed from a prologue by it's successor but not the core element. If esport is removed from the next GT it will leave Sport as a unique stand alone in the series.

Still, wouldn't be the first time PD worked hard on a single game, only to never use that idea again.

 

[Com Fox]

No because that was not the whole premise of the game. Only certain functionally was removed too.

Judging by the "Campaign Mode" of the game existing alongside "Sport Mode", eSport is not the premise of the game, just one of the main features (like GT5P Online)

 

[Seanspeed]

If each 'event' is a more thorough practice/qualifying/race sort of situation(including longer average races), along with some actual championship sort of series, then this could still be substantial enough.

Really, when it comes down to it, GT having tons and tons of events before made more sense when there was 800+ cars to buy. You needed lots and lots of races to constantly feed the money pool for new cars and upgrades. With GT Sport, there's going to be far less cars and so less reason to make players do hundreds of events. To keep a similar rate of progression, they'd basically have to cut the earnings by 400%+ to balance things out.

This will no doubt affect the 'feel' of progression, but hopefully they can address that by more satisfying graduations through classes.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Judging by the "Campaign Mode" of the game existing alongside "Sport Mode", eSport is not the premise of the game, just one of the main features (like GT5P Online)

To be fair though, "Campaign Mode" is just a handful of tutorials. The meat of GTS is the esport component.

 

[Nato_777]

As above - judging by the campaign mode it is unique among GT as it solely engineered to prepare one for the online racing aspect and esport.

 

[Com Fox]

To be fair though, "Campaign Mode" is just a handful of tutorials. The meat of GTS is the esport component.

True, though with 117 Tutorials, I would think there was meant to be some effort into it to keep players occupied for awhile.

 

[Mike_grpA]

True, though with 117 Tutorials, I would think there was meant to be some effort into it to keep players occupied for awhile.

As someone who found the "driving missions" and licence tests in GT game boring, I'd have to say that campaign mode looks like more of a chore than anything. I hate doing tiny little "challenges" on a few corners of a race track.

 

[Seanspeed]

To be fair though, "Campaign Mode" is just a handful of tutorials. The meat of GTS is the esport component.

Do we actually know this, though? :/

Are you just guessing/presuming?

 

[Mike_grpA]

Do we actually know this, though? :/

Are you just guessing/presuming?

Yeah it's been pretty well documented in another thread, can't remember which one. There are tons of photos showing what each section of the "Campaign mode" are, and it's basically a bunch of licence tests.

 

[Com Fox]

As someone who found the "driving missions" and licence tests in GT game boring, I'd have to say that campaign mode looks like more of a chore than anything. I hate doing tiny little "challenges" on a few corners of a race track.

I agree though what we think might not be what the developers attend use to feel about "Campaign Mode"

 

[Imari]

As someone who found the "driving missions" and licence tests in GT game boring, I'd have to say that campaign mode looks like more of a chore than anything. I hate doing tiny little "challenges" on a few corners of a race track.

I kind of like them as a change of pace to racing, but I don't think it's possible to make 117 of them and have all of them be engaging and unique. There's going to be a lot of filler and/or repeating the same thing with different cars/tracks.

Frankly, I suspect a lot of it would be able to be rolled into a Shift style corner/track mastery style system that you could work on in free practise or a race. It was one of the better ideas that Shift had.

 

[Seanspeed]

Yeah it's been pretty well documented in another thread, can't remember which one. There are tons of photos showing what each section of the "Campaign mode" are, and it's basically a bunch of licence tests.

Ah ok, I'll have to check that out.

 

[7HO]

You can think whatever you like.

I was agreeing with you.

Let's not get carried away now.

I'm not.

it's high school math.

You are free to believe that if you want but even normal 3D game programming Math isn't taught in high schools. Not everyone is building complex models using math but some are and you can tell from the driving which ones.

Sure, it's got an iRacing style esports setup to it's online functionality, but it's also completely lacking any offline content other than a basic arcade mode and a handful of tutorials. Considering what GT6 offered for the money, GTS is much closer to a prologue than what everyone was expecting the next full fat GT game to offer.

Which iRacing also doesn't have, you literally can't do anything on iRacing unless you have both a current membership and an internet connection. No part of iRacing is offline. I'm sure GTS will not have a white 240z in it which means the next instalment of the real driving imitator is still coming, this is an online racing service a different type of game with a different experience. There is some good reasons this game can't include that content people want to see from Gran Turismo. Traditional GT career racing promotes driving that in the opposite of what this game hopes to encourage because this game wants to create real race drivers and promote a higher level of sportmanship. Secondly because this is an esports title the cars must be balanced especially considering the 2 championship modes this game will have. First the more cars you have the more work that is involved in providing that balance but second there are a number of cars that just don't have a place racing in this title and are better suited to the real driving imitator.

I still can't see why this is so hard to understand. The type of online racing that GTS is trying to build is very complex, it is a serious major feature. They have to build the championship system, they have to build the ratings systems, they have to build the matchmaking systems based on these and they have to work. They have to build the booking and splitting system that is controlled by the matchmaking system and not only does this need to work it needs to be efficient and not break down. They need great netcode which is probably the hardest and one of the most important systems they might have to build because I don't know if they existing netcode is good or good enough for this type of service. Will they have qualifying? Will it be in the same session? You guys look at online racing as some basic and small feature but this isn't the online racing of previous GT's. This is an online racing service which is an entirely different thing. It is a bunch of systems that must work together and always work otherwise the customers will crucify them and the integrity of their competition will be called into question. On because they are betting the farm on this service, if they get this wrong it will be hard to come back.

To put it bluntly their pre testing event the other day was embarrassing, they would know this. From what I have seen getting from that to what they are promising in 6 months seems impossible. It is a seriously mammoth undertaking and people are acting like this is some trivial thing with no value and it is lacking in content.

It really isn't lacking in content, just this feature and nothing else if they get it right, that is worth the asking price. And I'm going to make another big statement, if they get this right, this will destroy the GT series for many people, once people get a taste of real clean racing in a proper organised series of events most will never want to go back to GT AI.

Judging by the "Campaign Mode" of the game existing alongside "Sport Mode", eSport is not the premise of the game, just one of the main features (like GT5P Online)

I guess that means you don't know what campaign mode is. Once again http://www.gran-turismo.com/us/products/gtsport/driving/

The joy of improving and advancing for everyone
The Campaign Mode of Gran Turismo Sport is a large scale offline content that provides a hands-on experience to allow even beginners to learn driving skills from scratch. They will eventually improve to a level where they can participate in major race events.

Beginner’s School
From basic skills such as hitting the brakes and how to turn into a corner, fundamentals can be learned from the bottom up, which will prove invaluable for newcomers to driving games.
Mission Challenge
As you work your way through short missions, you will automatically pick up fundamental driving skills without even realizing it. In the end, you will have a level of skill that will allow you to participate in major race events.
Circuit Experience
Through actual experience on a race track, you will step into the true world of high-performance driving. Use the knowledge of track layouts learned in the mission challenges to pick up the basics of how to conquer a race course.
Race Etiquette
In online, as well as real races, etiquette on the track is as important as performance. Learn the rules of etiquette and sportsmanship that’s required in all player-vs-player races. Even if you’re not a top driver with lots of confidence in your skill, you will still have plenty of fun because each player will be matched fairly with people of their own level for fair and equal online racing.


So once again the campaign mode is simply the beginning of your online racing career, it is to prepare you. And once again you will probably not even look at that and claim it is marketing but if you think that you must be hiding under a rock because that is what is in the game. Sure they could change it but why would they? Because you don't like it.

Except for scapes this whole game is tailored to online play. Even Arcade which I think should have been renamed is essential to online play because you need to be able to practice and test privately somewhere. But I really hope they have public practice servers because that forms a major social part of an online racer and also helps you to judge your pace against your rivals before you race just like in real life.

True, though with 117 Tutorials, I would think there was meant to be some effort into it to keep players occupied for awhile.

No , obviously they think 117 events are what are required to accomplish the parts I underlined above.

 

[Com Fox]

They will eventually improve to a level where they can participate in major race events.

That doesn't specify if it is e-Sport intended there is other online racing that isn't apart of the major e-Sport, I'm sure.

Even Arcade which I think should have been renamed is essential to online play because you need to be able to practice and test privately somewhere.

Before you said it has no place in this game also isn't that what Campaign mode is for according to you

Except for scapes

I actually find it hilarious when there are modes that disagree with your opinion, you just quickly shun them down like you once did for Arcade Mode only to change once you find an excuse to "help" back up your opinion.

 

[Imari]

You are free to believe that if you want but even normal 3D game programming Math isn't taught in high schools.

Do you read what you reply to? Springs and dampers. I didn't say anything about 3D programming.

Springs and dampers are high school math and physics. F=kx is barely high school, it's more like my first algebra. So is F=-cv. The relationship between the two gets a little more complex, and it gets harder if the damper is non-linear, but still none of it is actually beyond what a bright high school student would be capable of putting together.

Matrices and the like aren't generally taught in high school, but you don't need that for springs and dampers.

 

[Tornado]

I find it kind of amazing that someone who agrees whole heartedly that PD has done incompentent things in the past or says how PD messed up the entire initial showing of the game or concedes PD has frequently said things about past games that didn't come remotely close to happening so quickly runs straight to PR statements and marketing materials as proof of everything.

"It's nothing like a Prologue because Kaz said it isn't." "This is a potential revolution in the industry because the website lists some features that I think will be implemented in a way that would make it so." "These licence tests will teach you everything you need to know to be a good driver because they need to or PD won't accomplish what I believe they were talking about." "It doesn't matter if you think otherwise about *thing X*, because the website says you're wrong."