GT Sport to not feature single player 'career' events/races?

[Gazronicus]

I am not that bothered with the lack of career tbh. Career mode since GT5 has been lackluster, cookie cutter races with AI as rolling roadblocks. They just serve to spread out the grind to collect cars, and doesn't really offer any challenge or enjoyment. It looks like all cars will be available from the start in GTS, so that's the grinding out of the way. The Mission Races in GTS will hopefully be challenging. I'll use arcade mode if I want to set up an offline race. And race online if I want proper racing instead of playing catch the rabbit.

The next GT game (whether they call it 7 or 8, who knows?) will undoubtedly see the return of career mode, so it's not like it's gone forever either.

It will be too late by then .A lot of the offline community will leave in droves thus PD will suffer a lot of lost revenue

 

[Com Fox]

It isn't a prologue unless you think iRacing is a prologue. Although this will be missing some major features iRacing has this will be a more feature filled title than iRacing, for one the licensing system will be far superior and the driver education on iRacing is non existent. Then PD have the benifit of learning from iRacing's mistakes so they can potentially build a far superior rating system for the purpose of matchmaking and behaviour control.

If you look at everything that isn't online, it is identical to GT4 Prologue in terms of Arcade Mode and how the main mode is just driving practice, it isn't just an online game, it is a focus but so was GT5 Prologue in its hay day since it was the first GT game with online, like how this is the first game to support E-sport.

That to me, makes me think it is all a Prologue. I think GT7 will support the E-Sport Idea and be expanded.

Nothing has been removed.

Did you miss the point of the thread?

You will still get all those terrible features people love in the numbered game.

Again, the point of the thread?

It is very different, if you have no experience with iRacing I'm sure that concept might be harder to understand but this game is PD trying to finally break free of the traditional online gaming model that normal racing games provide which is terrible.

That's if you think it is like I Racing and not a Prologue.

Yes it is an online game, this is not a title for the typical GT buyer. For now if single player is all you are intersted in and you have a PS4 something like PCARS will hopefully meet your needs. GT7 will come at a later date and if all people are interested in is single player career and more content then it shouldn't be long after GT Sport is feature complete because the work involved for those is not as great as building the online game and GT7 will no doubt be built on the same engine. However if the numbered series does take some time it may mean they are working on new features that will give GT7 more depth.

Not really since it has offline features that are focused on (Campaign Mode with 117 "Events"). If you looked at the PS3 GTs (GT5P, GT5, GT6) the later games focused more on Online than the other and with Single Player lacking and letting players win so not really buying what you are saying

The later remarks make GT Sport like a Prologue for GT7.

A lot is changing but the biggest change can be summed up in one word, matchmaking. Achieving good matchmaking is not an easy task, the goal is to match drivers against similar skilled drivers and while that might seem easy enough there are a variety of skills in racing and being fast doesn't mean you are a good race driver. Being a great race driver requires a combination of being fast, being consistent and safe and having great race craft or the ability to race well, set up passes, race strategically, finish races and be clean.

This doesn't really mean anything, other games do this (even Mario Kart) and support Single (and sometimes Local) Player to allow players to get engage.

As for stuff being removed. They must remove or change certain things to achieve a serious sim especially if current technology they use would prevent the development of superior realism systems. For example if they have a dynamic effect that isn't realistic then for a serious online racing sim it is better to just remove it and not have it at all but if you want it then you should start from scratch.

Remove it and make the game look outdated compared to other games who have it. Who is going to play GT Sport for Sim Wise if other games do that Sim thing better with dynamic weather.

The traditional single player mode has no place in a title like this and that is why it is removed. Instead they will rebrand parts of it into the events that make up the entry to online driver training and this is a small but substantial change.

I disagree, it allows the players to be engage easier before stepping into the online realm. No one is going to go play Campaign mode if it is just lessons, Online is hard to access without actual experience first in the game. You would have to rely in Arcade Mode but hardly anyone does except for the people who never touch Online. You might be attracting the people but if you don't allow new players to be welcomed then it is a flop.

that part may be wishful thinking on my part.

...only that part.

 

[gtracedriver1]

In SP mode alone in GT6 I have spend 300 odd hrs and it was much shorter than GT5 credit and leveling system. I am sure in GT5 too I spend the same time but there is no way to tell because GT5 stat does not show the driving time. So in the end as long as game is good making very big SP mode really does not matter. Most people do not even finish the game and play less than 50%.I guess majority spend less than 50hrs in SP. They know the real data as they can monitor this via PSN. I am ok with what they have now but I hope they will add more.

 

[Com Fox]

I think it is more in the lines of GT6 events not being memorable.

GT4 SP Mode, I could tell 90% of the events, some of the tracks that are in it, what the opoonents use and what car is the biggest rival.

Since GT6 SP Mode has many events that are so Open and the A.I let you win, you don't really remember any of them except for a few (Real Circuit Tours and Super GT were the only ones for me), it's more of a checklist than something you can experience, even GT3s events were much more memorable and most of the events doubled-up yet I could still tell you the difference between Beginner GT World Championship and Amateur GT World Championship.

 

[Tenacious D]

I think it is more in the lines of GT6 events not being memorable.

That may simply be because you raced them, weren't impressed and moved on. In my case, there are about a dozen races or more in the I-A series that I race over and over with different cars, weaker cars to be sure because the bots are rather wimpy. But I have a lot of fun with them while I wait for GT Sport to appear. And No Man's Sky... blasted delays...

Whether Samus is trying to stir up controversy, warn us about the lack of single player in GT Sport or what, I'm not sure - and yes, I agree it' a bit premature to get up in arms. We haven't even reached E3 yet. But I don't see the harm in pointing out the possibility. It gives us a chance to express our preference for how we'd prefer GT Sport plays. If it really doesn't have much of a single player game at ALL besides Arcade Mode, PD has a few choices as far as remedies go down the road. As I said before, if nothing else they could patch in an Event Maker that we could use ofline to make our own events, all the way to mini racing seasons, complete with championships and restrictions, difficulty, prizes, etc. They provided an Event Maker like this in GT2, limited to five or six stages, but they could do almost anything on PS4.

I have no doubt that Sport will expand over the course of its lifetime, and if it lacks much offline racing, this is one way it could.

 

[Com Fox]

That may simply be because you raced them, weren't impressed and moved on. In my case, there are about a dozen races or more in the I-A series that I race over and over with different cars, weaker cars to be sure because the bots are rather wimpy.

Exactly, it wasn't memorable if the A.I were title or more events had a specific theme, I would've been more impress and did them again. Also the fact that some events didn't even have a Championship option like NASCAR really shocked me. I did like some of I-A and I did them over again however it was like 3. So many of them just required you to enter your only car, no tune ups, no upgrades, no getting new cars, just enter with that car and win (made worse with the A.I going easy on you)

 

[7HO]

If you look at everything that isn't online, it is identical to GT4 Prologue in terms of Arcade Mode and how the main mode is just driving practice, it isn't just an online game, it is a focus but so was GT5 Prologue in its hay day since it was the first GT game with online, like how this is the first game to support E-sport.

That to me, makes me think it is all a Prologue. I think GT7 will support the E-Sport Idea and be expanded.

You are missing the point. iRacing is a full featured game that people are willing to spend hundreds of dollars on and yet it has less than what GT Sport is offering. There is always the quality over quantity argument, of course I have no idea what the quality of GTS will be but up until now GT is currently a joke in regards of quality. So for a moment forget all the spin PD has told you about GT in the past and focus on what is important. If GT7 was released today and was little more than GT6 HD for PS4 what would the reaction be? Sales would be terrible and the game would be considered a joke. The standard of driving games has been raised, everything has improved, physics have improved, sounds have improved and most importantly features have improved. iRacing would have to be one of the best optimised games in existence and I have a PC that stomps all over a PS4 and yet I can easily max my CPU and GPU at 100% with iRacing and need to turn down some feature for an optimal experience. Don't get me wrong iRacing could easily be made to run on a PS4 and it would easily be the best game on the PS4 if it did but iRacing is already getting to the point where the features it currently has are maxing out the current top end consumer CPU's with more features on the way, everytime a new feature is added the complaints start rolling in that iRacing has broken something but the truth is our CPU's are already being maxed out and the only way they can work with the new features is to turn the game down some more. The more complex the physics are the more processing power you need and then every feature you start throwing on top of that will use more CPU, Complex realistic directional sounds which will be a must include feature with VR will require more processing, things like dynamic particles, dynamic surfaces, dynamic weather, dynamic debris, realistic damage and collisions all require a ton of processing if you want them to be realistic, and then you have the effects to process on top of all that.

But these features also need to be developed before they even start to stress our CPU's and as I said what GT has in their bag is currently a joke in the sim racing world and not fit for a serious esports title. So that can mean starting again but no matter how they improve the game the price of quality is time and that takes time away from developing content. You can't have it both ways, you can't expect a massive improvement in quality and expect to maintain the same level of content, it isn't like you can wave a magic wand over the old content and bring it up to date. The development time for modern AAA games is far greater than the development times of the past so if you consider how long PD took to come out with games in the past either they must take longer or they must include less.

I wonder how much experience you have with other racing games. Assetto Corsa is constantly mentioned as a benchmark but it is very light in content and online is not the focus, that is a full featured title coming to console that is praised simply based on the superior physics and FFB it provides. iRacing has no offline content at all other than the forum and admittedly some members pay for a subscription just to get access to the forum but people pay the premium for iRacing because of the service it provides. And that is what GT Sport is promising to provide for less money.

I can't see any comparison between GT5 prologue and GT Sport. I see why you would compare GT4P to GTS and to be fair GT4P also had arcade racing but it still isn't close to being the same. Apart from the scapes mode which seems out of place as a feature in this title everything serves a purpose in this game and the purpose of this game is to bring an esports online racing service to console. It is no small task and a traditional GT online progression simply has no place in this title. What this title needs is realism features and polish. Any development time spent on adding GT7 features to GTS comes at the cost of the final GTS product.

Did you miss the point of the thread?

No, GT Sports will not feature a typical GT single player career career. In fact the OP doesn't claim anything has been removed and nothing has been removed. In fact the OP goes on to say at the end of his post

So, thoughts? Is this really it, or will they add offline events as we know from previous games?

When you start with a new spin off game you essentially start with only what you decide to bring from the existing franchise. Nothing is removed because it is a new game, a new direction and not part of the existing series, everything is added even if it was in an old game. Kaz has already said that these other things will be in GT7, nothing is removed from the numbered series yet but people need to get their head around this not being part of the numbered series and possibly not the game they are looking for.

Again, the point of the thread?

Here is the link so you can read it again as I'm sure you have not understood the original point of the thread.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ure-single-player-career-events-races.346416/

That's if you think it is like I Racing and not a Prologue.

It is an iRacing rip off for console. The focus is online racing and the systems they are using are based on systems iRacing uses, for example Sportmanship Rating is virtually the same thing as Safety Rating on iRacing, the only thing that remains to be seen is the implementation since SR is one of the jokes of iRacing since it is so easy to get an A license therefore it plays almost no part in the quality of drivers you are matched against on iRacing. But it could very well be the implementation on GT Sport is the same. Both are a no fault system that iRacing is currently the only sim to use and one of the defining features of iRacing. iRacing uses 3 systems to influence driving standards in official online racing and it is currently the only sim to take this approach. Safety Rating, iRating and a protest system and even though iRacing doesn't have enough members to test the effectiveness of its matchmaking system iRacing is the only racing sim to actually have a matchmaking system. iRacing is also the first racing sim to have a crack at serious esports with major prizes available and iRacing also has racers receiving real world sponsorships. Also iRacing is currently also the only sim where drivers who win the Championship are recognised by an official real world racing body and treated the same as real life drivers and receive their awards alongside the drivers of the real life series. Seem familiar? It should because all of these are features iRacing did first and now GTS is not only doing but also have been bold enough to claim they are breaking new ground as if no one has done these things already.

iRacing is known as being the best online racing simulation. It is easy to be the best when you are the only game in town. People have managed to create great leagues using other sims but the other games on their own are not really online racing sims, they are online racing games that can be used as a foundation to create a racing sim using a league. GT Sport is the first game to try and take on iRacing and if anyone thinks of it as anything else I can only imagine that they know nothing about iRacing or they are choosing to ignore it for some reason.

Not really since it has offline features that are focused on (Campaign Mode with 117 "Events"). If you looked at the PS3 GTs (GT5P, GT5, GT6) the later games focused more on Online than the other and with Single Player lacking and letting players win so not really buying what you are saying

The later remarks make GT Sport like a Prologue for GT7.

Make up your mind, does GTS feature a single player mode or not? You can't have it both ways. The Campaign mode has the purpose of preparing drivers for online racing, a safe offline mode for them to get ready to race online. 117 events will no doubt include challenges that take longer to load then complete but even if they have managed to reduce loading times some of the challenges will take a good driver a few seconds to complete. Even if it is similar to former GT titles which I imagine it will be the purpose as stated on the GT Sport site is as a driver development tool for online racing.

As for GT5 it was still insanely big so I am not sure how you can possibly say it wasn't focussed on single player racing.

This doesn't really mean anything, other games do this (even Mario Kart) and support Single (and sometimes Local) Player to allow players to get engage.

Name a racing sim other than iRacing that does matchmaking. And even iRacing doesn't do it well. If GT Sport can successfully match people with not only similar skill levels but with drivers who share the same etiquette level as they are claiming this will be a first for sim racing, in fact I can't think of another game that does matchmaking like this so it may be a first in any game but I am not sure. I am sure it will be a first in race sims if they do what they are saying on the tin. Technically iRacing claim to do the same thing but it doesn't actually work in iRacing. Of course we have every reason to doubt PD are capable of actually delivering on this claim just as iRacing doesn't deliver considering the reason iRacing wouldn't improve their system is some people already claim that the license system is too hard. This is mainly iRacings fault as those people usually don't understand how the system works and I would be surprised if that ends up being the case with GTS.

Remove it and make the game look outdated compared to other games who have it. Who is going to play GT Sport for Sim Wise if other games do that Sim thing better with dynamic weather.

COD and Battlefield are not even close to being in the same league of features and quality and yet they are both as popular as each other.

Do you realise that until recently pretty much everything was outdated on iRacing compared to other modern sims? iRacing was on DX9 and the graphics looked dated. iRacing had static tracks and static weather because it didn't want to release these features if they were unrealistic. Not too long ago RF2 was held as the standard for dynamic tracks and even Assetto Corsa was considered by some to be better because the track would gain grip as you raced. Then iRacing showed everyone why they had to wait for a dynamic track when they released theirs and any other dynamic track is a joke in comparison. In AC you go from less grip to unrealistic full grip in a few laps and this is a programmed thing not based on cars driving on the track. RF2 did the dynamic track a little better but when iRacing did dynamic tracks the surface of the track is heated based on where the sun is shining and cooler in the shadows and the track temps are directly impacted by the tyres of the cars running over them where the tyre makes contact and the temperatures are continually changing in the same way that they do in real life and the rubber that is laid on the track is laid in the same way it is in real life, where the tyres make contact and marbles are thrown off and recollected and thrown off again realistically as they would be in real life and then the track temps and rubber interact realistically and effect your tyre temps are effected realistically by these along with pressure, camber, toe, downforce, and vehicle cross weight all being factors calculated based on physics calculations not some simple IF THEN code. It isn't some gimmick, the track changes constantly in a realistic way and this can effect a race. Depending on the setup combined with conditions the car might come to one driver and go from his competitor. This is how iRacing implements features and it should then be obvious why it doesn't yet have dynamic change of time or rain, those features need to work realistically in combination with the existing features like the dynamic track.

On the other hand if I play AC I turn the track to old or slow because AC's grip isn't realistic and the track isn't dynamic and I feel the best setting is the less grippy setting that doesn't improve much. And yet AC is hardly a game that people laugh about because it does the actual driving experience so well.

So no one does the sim thing as good as iRacing yet people play other sims. Each sim that people appreciate has its strengths, something that it does very well. For GT Sport this will be online racing and esports as it will have no competition at all on console. GT Sport will be bigger than iRacing despite iRacing being better for a simple reason, the same reason the popular classes stay popular on iRacing and the unpopular ones stay unpopular, people want to race people and there will be more competition on GT Sport. If GT Sport also has the best prizes on offer I will be sure of that. Ultimately those who want to race will race, GT Sport will need to be particularly bad for people not to race on it and while people may complain or wish for something better as long as no one else is doing the esports thing and as long as online racing is actually fun on GT Sport people will race on it without all those realism features.

I disagree, it allows the players to be engage easier before stepping into the online realm. No one is going to go play Campaign mode if it is just lessons, Online is hard to access without actual experience first in the game. You would have to rely in Arcade Mode but hardly anyone does except for the people who never touch Online. You might be attracting the people but if you don't allow new players to be welcomed then it is a flop.

Have you even looked at the official GT Sport site? Go here and click all the links http://www.gran-turismo.com/us/products/gtsport/

...only that part.

Well I'm getting my information from the makers of the game and from experience with other games.

 

[Com Fox]

Well I'm getting my information from the makers of the game

Who make false promises, and are known to lie (like before this they said they were planning on putting GT6 Premiums saying they are fine only just to say now that the cars are built from scratch).

Makes your entire posts feel like you just took PD word for it without caution.

in fact I can't think of another game that does matchmaking like this so it may be a first in any game but I am not sure.

I just said Mario Kart. Also you seem to have high hopes for GT to do it the best when it does everything other games do worse except for Photomode.

Make up your mind, does GTS feature a single player mode or not?

I'm guessing you didn't get what I meant, as in Online has been gradually taking control that there is no Single Player career anymore but that's if this even meant to be a stand alone game. The "Campaign Mode" and "Arcade Mode" makes it appear as a Prologue like GT4 Prologue. If this was truly entire about Online then these features would either be removed or had Online purpose other than perhaps sharing times.

If GT5 Prologue was branded as GT Online (since it is the first GT game to support Online) we might (key word there) have the same discussion if "GT Online" is a Prologue.

 

[7HO]

Who make false promises, and are known to lie (like before this they said they were planning on putting GT6 Premiums saying they are fine only just to say now that the cars are built from scratch).

Makes your entire posts feel like you just took PD word for it without caution.

We have already seen most of this stuff demonstrated in game so I am not sure why you wouldn't believe what the campaign mode is according to PD. How can you think Campaign is something other than this

The joy of improving and advancing for everyone
The Campaign Mode of Gran Turismo Sport is a large scale offline content that provides a hands-on experience to allow even beginners to learn driving skills from scratch. They will eventually improve to a level where they can participate in major race events.
Beginner’s School
From basic skills such as hitting the brakes and how to turn into a corner, fundamentals can be learned from the bottom up, which will prove invaluable for newcomers to driving games.
Mission Challenge
As you work your way through short missions, you will automatically pick up fundamental driving skills without even realizing it. In the end, you will have a level of skill that will allow you to participate in major race events.
Circuit Experience
Through actual experience on a race track, you will step into the true world of high-performance driving. Use the knowledge of track layouts learned in the mission challenges to pick up the basics of how to conquer a race course.
Race Etiquette
In online, as well as real races, etiquette on the track is as important as performance. Learn the rules of etiquette and sportsmanship that’s required in all player-vs-player races. Even if you’re not a top driver with lots of confidence in your skill, you will still have plenty of fun because each player will be matched fairly with people of their own level for fair and equal online racing.
What part of that do you have any reason not to believe?

I just said Mario Kart. Also you seem to have high hopes for GT to do it the best when it does everything other games do worse except for Photomode.

Does Mario VR actually take etiquette into consideration for matchmaking? I thought it only considered your final position. Sauce please.

Well I'm sure GTS will be the best online race simulator service on any console considering there is no other on console just like iRacing is the best on PC because there is no other.

And as far as the iRacing vs GTS thing goes I am hopeful. It shouldn't be hard to do matchmaking better than iRacing since iRacing do it pretty poorly. For GT Sport if they do not succeed at matchmaking GT Sport will be an absolute failure since it is an online only game. People will only race GT Sport online if it is fun for them and if matchmaking doesn't work or if driving standards are no different to pub racing in other games then GT Sport will fail. I doubt PD and Sony will let GT Sport fail.

I'm guessing you didn't get what I meant, as in Online has been gradually taking control that there is no Single Player career anymore but that's if this even meant to be a stand alone game. The "Campaign Mode" and "Arcade Mode" makes it appear as a Prologue like GT4 Prologue. If this was truly entire about Online then these features would either be removed or had Online purpose other than perhaps sharing times.

If GT5 Prologue was branded as GT Online (since it is the first GT game to support Online) we might (key word there) have the same discussion if "GT Online" is a Prologue.

No clearly I think what you are saying is false. I have never understood the inclusion of arcade mode in any GT game and for the most part I think it has no place in GTS however PD are most likely aware of the common complaint on iRacing that there is no offline mode and people constantly request the ability to be able to at least drive cars you own on tracks you own while others go on about using AI as a driving tool so perhaps this mode is aimed at that group of people. But then just as much as I can't understand the desire for a single player career mode in this game I also can't understand why anyone would want to race against GT AI which would rank as some of the worst AI compared to current games.

Clearly you don't trust anything PD have said and I can't help ypu with that but PD have said this is a stand alone game outside of the regular GT series and PD have said this is not a prologue but a fully features stand alone game. I can't help you if you don't believe that but as I have pointed out if you are objective and compare it to other games out there then it is fair to consider it as such. For some reason beyond my understanding you refuse to consider the market and only want to compare this against previous GT games. Even in that regard GT is attempting something new with this.

Yes I am disappointed they are not going all the way. From what I have seen from gameplay footage the physics appear to be a joke but to be fair I am not sure because this could be the result of inaccurate replay footage or inaccurate representations of a cars behaviour as interpreted by the game from the information sent from the server regarding other cars in the game. In some situations the footage I have seen leads me to believe the physics might be an improvement but most of the time I am left thinking the physics look like a joke especially when I see a car being driven with a controller so that it is erratically swerving from side to side with no loss of control. Honestly there will be a point where if the physics are too bad I will not be able to race on this game and I am very fearful this will be the case because GT's physics are bad.

And of every statement that PD have made the one that I think is the most false is this one.

"Real physics makes it easier to drive
Do you feel that driving a simulator is difficult, more difficult than driving a real-life car? Well, your opinion is about to change because we refined our physics to offer a better sense of control that honestly conveys the player’s input. In the same way you drive a real car, you will be able to control the vehicle represented in the game with increased depth to the controls. While it’s based on the principles of the very first Gran Turismo, the new physics engine has evolved significantly, making it suited for beginners and experts alike."

My interpretation of this statement is either PD are too lazy to make a realistic sim or they are not capable. Driving a car at 60km/hr down a road isn't the most difficult thing a person can do but people even fail at doing that and crash. Driving at race speeds is much harder, driving right on the limit for the length of a race is a very hard thing for the average person. Most people have no idea what it is like to drive on race tyres and are under the false impression that the extra grip race tyres provide make driving fast easier when the truth is the tyres are more temperature sensitive and far more unforgiving when they lose grip. And this is real life with all your senses. I wonder how easy driving a car at speed would be for people if I put an eye patch over one eye and also removed other senses they have? Driving on a screen is similar to driving a car with one eye shut but even with one eye shut our brain can calculate distance based on the speed of light from various distances but this is not possible for our brains viewing the entire image from a single distance. Then in a console sim there is no physical input of what the car is doing other than what we feel from our wheels and most commercial FFB wheels are not capable of coming close to providing the information a real cars wheel but there is so much other information missing that our brain processes when we drive in real life and this is why a real race driver might not be as good in a sim but a sim race driver will often be as good in real life. And driving with a controller should be extremely hard. Put it this way driving a sim car should be as hard as driving a real life race car by remote control while looking at a monitor, something that from viewing the few attempts at this very thing we can see can be very difficult.

And ask anyone who has driven with direct drive wheels on the so called hard to drive sims how hard they are to drive with direct drive wheels and you may be shocked at the results. But as hard a sim racing with realistic physics can be it isn't really hard. iRacing isn't hard and I can teach anyone how to drive on iRacing in a very short time because I do it with local kids often and I find it hard to kick them off my rig when I do and this is using difficult cars on a difficult track like Bathurst.

So when I see PD making statements like that combined with what appears to be terrible physics from game footage then I am very afraid about how bad this game will be and I understand why they can easily mix fantasy cars with those based on real cars because all cars are fantasy cars and there is no such thing as realistic physics in GT.

Still even if GT Sport is the COD of online sim racing I hope it succeeds because sim racing needs an entry into esports and sim racing needs to go mainstream.

 

[Com Fox]

We have already seen most of this stuff demonstrated in game so I am not sure why you wouldn't believe what the campaign mode is according to PD. How can you think Campaign is something other than this

The joy of improving and advancing for everyone
The Campaign Mode of Gran Turismo Sport is a large scale offline content that provides a hands-on experience to allow even beginners to learn driving skills from scratch. They will eventually improve to a level where they can participate in major race events.
Beginner’s School
From basic skills such as hitting the brakes and how to turn into a corner, fundamentals can be learned from the bottom up, which will prove invaluable for newcomers to driving games.
Mission Challenge
As you work your way through short missions, you will automatically pick up fundamental driving skills without even realizing it. In the end, you will have a level of skill that will allow you to participate in major race events.
Circuit Experience
Through actual experience on a race track, you will step into the true world of high-performance driving. Use the knowledge of track layouts learned in the mission challenges to pick up the basics of how to conquer a race course.
Race Etiquette
In online, as well as real races, etiquette on the track is as important as performance. Learn the rules of etiquette and sportsmanship that’s required in all player-vs-player races. Even if you’re not a top driver with lots of confidence in your skill, you will still have plenty of fun because each player will be matched fairly with people of their own level for fair and equal online racing.
What part of that do you have any reason not to believe?



Does Mario VR actually take etiquette into consideration for matchmaking? I thought it only considered your final position. Sauce please.

Well I'm sure GTS will be the best online race simulator service on any console considering there is no other on console just like iRacing is the best on PC because there is no other.

And as far as the iRacing vs GTS thing goes I am hopeful. It shouldn't be hard to do matchmaking better than iRacing since iRacing do it pretty poorly. For GT Sport if they do not succeed at matchmaking GT Sport will be an absolute failure since it is an online only game. People will only race GT Sport online if it is fun for them and if matchmaking doesn't work or if driving standards are no different to pub racing in other games then GT Sport will fail. I doubt PD and Sony will let GT Sport fail.



No clearly I think what you are saying is false. I have never understood the inclusion of arcade mode in any GT game and for the most part I think it has no place in GTS however PD are most likely aware of the common complaint on iRacing that there is no offline mode and people constantly request the ability to be able to at least drive cars you own on tracks you own while others go on about using AI as a driving tool so perhaps this mode is aimed at that group of people. But then just as much as I can't understand the desire for a single player career mode in this game I also can't understand why anyone would want to race against GT AI which would rank as some of the worst AI compared to current games.

Clearly you don't trust anything PD have said and I can't help ypu with that but PD have said this is a stand alone game outside of the regular GT series and PD have said this is not a prologue but a fully features stand alone game. I can't help you if you don't believe that but as I have pointed out if you are objective and compare it to other games out there then it is fair to consider it as such. For some reason beyond my understanding you refuse to consider the market and only want to compare this against previous GT games. Even in that regard GT is attempting something new with this.

Yes I am disappointed they are not going all the way. From what I have seen from gameplay footage the physics appear to be a joke but to be fair I am not sure because this could be the result of inaccurate replay footage or inaccurate representations of a cars behaviour as interpreted by the game from the information sent from the server regarding other cars in the game. In some situations the footage I have seen leads me to believe the physics might be an improvement but most of the time I am left thinking the physics look like a joke especially when I see a car being driven with a controller so that it is erratically swerving from side to side with no loss of control. Honestly there will be a point where if the physics are too bad I will not be able to race on this game and I am very fearful this will be the case because GT's physics are bad.

And of every statement that PD have made the one that I think is the most false is this one.

"Real physics makes it easier to drive
Do you feel that driving a simulator is difficult, more difficult than driving a real-life car? Well, your opinion is about to change because we refined our physics to offer a better sense of control that honestly conveys the player’s input. In the same way you drive a real car, you will be able to control the vehicle represented in the game with increased depth to the controls. While it’s based on the principles of the very first Gran Turismo, the new physics engine has evolved significantly, making it suited for beginners and experts alike."

My interpretation of this statement is either PD are too lazy to make a realistic sim or they are not capable. Driving a car at 60km/hr down a road isn't the most difficult thing a person can do but people even fail at doing that and crash. Driving at race speeds is much harder, driving right on the limit for the length of a race is a very hard thing for the average person. Most people have no idea what it is like to drive on race tyres and are under the false impression that the extra grip race tyres provide make driving fast easier when the truth is the tyres are more temperature sensitive and far more unforgiving when they lose grip. And this is real life with all your senses. I wonder how easy driving a car at speed would be for people if I put an eye patch over one eye and also removed other senses they have? Driving on a screen is similar to driving a car with one eye shut but even with one eye shut our brain can calculate distance based on the speed of light from various distances but this is not possible for our brains viewing the entire image from a single distance. Then in a console sim there is no physical input of what the car is doing other than what we feel from our wheels and most commercial FFB wheels are not capable of coming close to providing the information a real cars wheel but there is so much other information missing that our brain processes when we drive in real life and this is why a real race driver might not be as good in a sim but a sim race driver will often be as good in real life. And driving with a controller should be extremely hard. Put it this way driving a sim car should be as hard as driving a real life race car by remote control while looking at a monitor, something that from viewing the few attempts at this very thing we can see can be very difficult.

And ask anyone who has driven with direct drive wheels on the so called hard to drive sims how hard they are to drive with direct drive wheels and you may be shocked at the results. But as hard a sim racing with realistic physics can be it isn't really hard. iRacing isn't hard and I can teach anyone how to drive on iRacing in a very short time because I do it with local kids often and I find it hard to kick them off my rig when I do and this is using difficult cars on a difficult track like Bathurst.

So when I see PD making statements like that combined with what appears to be terrible physics from game footage then I am very afraid about how bad this game will be and I understand why they can easily mix fantasy cars with those based on real cars because all cars are fantasy cars and there is no such thing as realistic physics in GT.

Still even if GT Sport is the COD of online sim racing I hope it succeeds because sim racing needs an entry into esports and sim racing needs to go mainstream.

While I will provide a source: http://kotaku.com/mario-kart-8s-online-multiplayer-is-coming-back-to-lif-1665189557 (talks about improvements in matchmaking and briefly mentions that it targets players with your skill level) for other bits, TL;DR.

EDIT: Though targeting market, sorry I don't see this as targeting towards a difference audience, I see this as targeting the already GT fanbase and get them to online gaming as the online GT player base is small and suit them up for GT7 down the line, that's why I see this as GT7 Prologue renamed so people wouldn't 🤬 about it being a Prologue.

So I guess I did read it afterall

 

[7HO]

While I will provide a source: http://kotaku.com/mario-kart-8s-online-multiplayer-is-coming-back-to-lif-1665189557 (talks about improvements in matchmaking and briefly mentions that it targets players with your skill level) for other bits, TL;DR.

Umm that is evidence that supports what I claimed, matchmaking based on results is common, I have never seen matchmaking that takes etiquette into consideration. What PD are claiming will happen in GT Sport is that you will be matched up with drivers who have a similar level of sportsmanship as you, basically wreckers with wreckers and clean with clean as far as I understand it. They also mention fair and equal racing so this implies some form of traditional matchmaking as well. What isn't clear is if this is a single hybrid rating system or if it is 2 ratings that are both used to place you with drivers who share your level of sportsmanship and are also at the same level of performance as you. If it is a hybrid rating it will not work but is it is 2 ratings that are used together then depending on how it is implemented it could be the best matchmaking system we have seen.

As long as it is not a direct rip off from iRacing then it will be a completely new matchmaking system and that is likely considering the other things that are iRacing rip offs in this title. But if SR in GT Sport is more than an easy license system on GT Sport and if it actually natches you up with similar drivers then it could be not only the best match making tool but also the best tool for driving standards seen so far.

As for your other comment, you have nothing to base it on other than feelings. It is contrary to what PD is saying but you don't trust them. You are entitled to your opinion but mine has more evidence to back it and yours is a result of not believing the evidence.

 

[Com Fox]

Umm that is evidence that supports what I claimed, matchmaking based on results is common, I have never seen matchmaking that takes etiquette into consideration

Ok misread, however I highly doubt PD can deliver the goods.

As for your other comment, you have nothing to base it on other than feelings.

Have you not heard of previous experience? Like your responses aren't based on feelings anyway.

not believing the evidence.

I don't believe it because PD in the past have lied, it's past experience so them a source should be taken with salt and not with 100% Belief.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It is an iRacing rip off for console. The focus is online racing and the systems they are using are based on systems iRacing uses, for example Sportmanship Rating is virtually the same thing as Safety Rating on iRacing, the only thing that remains to be seen is the implementation since SR is one of the jokes of iRacing since it is so easy to get an A license therefore it plays almost no part in the quality of drivers you are matched against on iRacing. But it could very well be the implementation on GT Sport is the same. Both are a no fault system that iRacing is currently the only sim to use and one of the defining features of iRacing. iRacing uses 3 systems to influence driving standards in official online racing and it is currently the only sim to take this approach. Safety Rating, iRating and a protest system and even though iRacing doesn't have enough members to test the effectiveness of its matchmaking system iRacing is the only racing sim to actually have a matchmaking system. iRacing is also the first racing sim to have a crack at serious esports with major prizes available and iRacing also has racers receiving real world sponsorships. Also iRacing is currently also the only sim where drivers who win the Championship are recognised by an official real world racing body and treated the same as real life drivers and receive their awards alongside the drivers of the real life series. Seem familiar? It should because all of these are features iRacing did first and now GTS is not only doing but also have been bold enough to claim they are breaking new ground as if no one has done these things already.

Again, you're making a lot of assumptions as to how the rating system is going to work, and we have almost zero details so far and no one has seen it in action.

 

[Imari]

As for your other comment, you have nothing to base it on other than feelings. It is contrary to what PD is saying but you don't trust them. You are entitled to your opinion but mine has more evidence to back it and yours is a result of not believing the evidence.

Marketing is not evidence. It's marketing.

If a company doesn't have a history of misleading it's customers, it's probably reasonable to accept any marketing that they might produce as accurate.

That is not the case with Polyphony. I mean, did you enjoy your monthly track DLC in GT6? I sure did!

 

[TJ13]

I have this odd flashback.
Missions
GT4 Mission Nurb. :/
Waiting for 117 seconds just to screw up in the last corner.

 

[GordonS]

It may be that Kaz had clear plans for PS4 era GT seeing the downfall of GT6. Then Jean Todt (FIA) called him. And the original vision changed big time. ​

 

[FS7]

GTS should have an offline mode like this:

 

[Tenacious D]

You guys are expending an awful lot of mental effort over things we know little about. E3 may change the debate considerably, and isn't far off.

 

[nickg07]

I wonder if racing etiquette is based on those events in GT where a single contact with an opponent or two wheels off equals instant disqualification.

 

[dissectional1]

I have a question... Despite the original slogan does anyone actually believe GT's goal is to be an actual SIM? Nothing against hardcore sim lovers but, regardless of how much improvement any future series title gets I doubt you could bag it with AC or iRacing and the like... It's meant to reach quite a large market and not a niche, which is what actual SIM's do. If it ever becomes a true sim, it'll lose the mass appeal. Would be like one of those cult bands with virtuosos that no one but the rather limited number of fans likes.
And the goal is cashing in. The wider the audience it reaches the more cash they'll make out of it. The majority of the public aren't hardcore gamers nor sim people. If you hope to make it like AC or iRacing, you'll make potential players ditch it for other more accessible and fun games

 

[Imari]

I have a question... Despite the original slogan does anyone actually believe GT's goal is to be an actual SIM?

Goal: yes.
Will they achieve it: probably not.

GT6 would have been an incredible sim by the standards of not that long ago. By the standards of today it's mediocre to average. I think Polyphony do try and it's their goal to make the best sim that they can, they're just not really that good at it*.

It turns out that they're actually quite good at making a game that feels better than a real sim to your average fella, because it still behaves in a way that convinces them that it's real but flatters their driving by not being super punishing.

*Or rather, Akihiko Tan and whoever else is doing the physics are fine but they're just not in the same league as the big boys at iRacing, Assetto Corsa and rFactor.

 

[Nato_777]

Who make false promises, and are known to lie (like before this they said they were planning on putting GT6 Premiums saying they are fine only just to say now that the cars are built from scratch).

Makes your entire posts feel like you just took PD word for it without caution.

I don't believe it because PD in the past have lied, it's past experience so them a source should be taken with salt and not with 100% Belief.

Personally I think straight out calling PD liars is too strong. For me a liar is someone who purposely says something they have no intention of doing and I don't believe that is the case here.
What PD are guilty of is a failure to carry out in a timely manner or at all even in some cases what they said they had intended to do. For me that is different to lying about it in the first place.
May be semantics but I'm very wary of calling anyone a liar.

Clearly you don't trust anything PD have said and I can't help you with that but PD have said this is a stand alone game outside of the regular GT series and PD have said this is not a prologue but a fully features stand alone game. I can't help you if you don't believe that but as I have pointed out if you are objective and compare it to other games out there then it is fair to consider it as such. For some reason beyond my understanding you refuse to consider the market and only want to compare this against previous GT games. Even in that regard GT is attempting something new with this.

Exactly, when Kaz says that they started GT Sport as a spin off title, something separate from the usual GT iterations I have no reason to think he's trying to mislead me. This game is not intended as a prologue to GT7 but is a singularly focused online esport project. Everything about it is geared towards competitive online racing.
Kaz may have said that GT Sport had grown bigger than he had imagined it to begin with and so he could now call it GT7 if he wanted to, but the fact is he hasn't because it isn't and never was intended to be GT7 or even a prologue to it. If PD had called this project GT7 when they started it and then changed its name to Sport you could argue it as a prologue but that's not the case.
Is GT Sport a nod to the future shape of Gran Turismo, who knows really. I think we will see a return to a more familiar offline GT Mode in GT7 with a much better and full featured online mode as well.

I have never understood the inclusion of arcade mode in any GT game and for the most part I think it has no place in GTS however PD are most likely aware of the common complaint on iRacing that there is no offline mode and people constantly request the ability to be able to at least drive cars you own on tracks you own while others go on about using AI as a driving tool so perhaps this mode is aimed at that group of people.

Even professional real world drivers practice and learn tracks by hotlapping in a sim. Being able to race against AI opponents is an additional useful tool in preparation for an important race and this is where an offline arcade mode is invaluable and necessary in any sim racing game (including iRacing).

 

[7HO]

Again, you're making a lot of assumptions as to how the rating system is going to work, and we have almost zero details so far and no one has seen it in action.

They are not assumptions.

Kaz said SR will be a no fault system, I posted the link earlier.

And the two other links I posted from the GT Sport page say the rest.

One says SR will be used for matchmaking.

The other says that you will be matched with people of your skill level.

As I said I don't know how these will be implemented, if they will be a hybrid rating or 2 rating used together.

Marketing is not evidence. It's marketing.

If a company doesn't have a history of misleading it's customers, it's probably reasonable to accept any marketing that they might produce as accurate.

That is not the case with Polyphony. I mean, did you enjoy your monthly track DLC in GT6? I sure did!

I'm not saying that PD haven't told porkies and I'm not saying that a lack of trust is unjustified as I have mentioned plenty of times that I have no faith in their ability to deliver on their promises. But for the purpose of calling this a Prologue (not that it matters or makes a difference) PD have said it is not a Prologue and is a stand alone full featured spin off and I have no reason to doubt that. I have also shown why it is fair to consider this a stand alone. And sure comparisons can be made to the Prologues as have been but this is greater than both 4P and 5P so while similarities can be made we also need to be reasonable and accept that more work goes into modern games even when they use prior assets and despite what PD have said in the past their is a good chance they have overestimated their previous work and now realise it doesn't stand up to current work from other studios.

However that is me being reasonable and giving the benifit of doubt as we should but if you want to know how I really feel. I think PD are an incompetent and lazy studio living off the name of the work they have done in the past. I don't think they are capable of creating a real simulator that is comparable to modern simulators and they make excuses for this by saying things like driving is not hard. However I wish to remain as positive as I can because GT Sport is an important step in sim racing that I have wished for sometime. I am disappointed that this important step is in the hands of PD but at the same time I also realise the weight the name has and that as long as it isn't completely terrible this is a good step that if successful can lead to others. So even if this is the COD of sim racing that isn't a completely bad thing because a Battlefield and Insurgency can come later just like the Insurgency is now coming to console.

It may be that Kaz had clear plans for PS4 era GT seeing the downfall of GT6. Then Jean Todt (FIA) called him. And the original vision changed big time. ​

There are lots of reasons things can change and I've seen explanations that make sense speculated like the ADHD thing. What is clear is he is passionate but not reliable and I don't think he is an honest person. But plans change, the conditions change and the future often does not turn out how we expect and as for Kaz it isn't like this is a game he is building so there may be many things he wants to do but then realises isn't possible for whatever reason, possibly because his team are lazy and/or incompetent.

I lost interest in GT some time ago and I was surprised to find out about GT Sport. At first I just thought "hey this sounds like what I've been waiting for, could this be a console competitior to iRacing?" And then as more information came out I realised that is exactly what this is intended to be. And I think they have avoided referencing iRacing directly because they want to avoid alerting the general public to iRacing because GT on console doesn't compare to iRacing on PC for a number of reasons.

You guys are expending an awful lot of mental effort over things we know little about. E3 may change the debate considerably, and isn't far off.

But it is over 50% complete

I wonder if racing etiquette is based on those events in GT where a single contact with an opponent or two wheels off equals instant disqualification.

I really can't wait to see how it works and I can only hope the implementation is well done. There are a number of ways the system can be implemented but from what we can see the approach they are taking doesn't seem to be a penalty system, it would appear that the rating will be used to place drivers with similar drivers making it a game for everyone. That sounds very complex to implement correctly if that is the path they are taking.

I also can't wait to see what kind of damage and collision physics are implemented because damage is another system that effects behaviour but realistic damage is a penalty system and considering the approach they seem to be taking I would doubt GTS will have realistic damage and collision especially considering PD's policy on making it easy for everyone.

I have a question... Despite the original slogan does anyone actually believe GT's goal is to be an actual SIM? Nothing against hardcore sim lovers but, regardless of how much improvement any future series title gets I doubt you could bag it with AC or iRacing and the like... It's meant to reach quite a large market and not a niche, which is what actual SIM's do. If it ever becomes a true sim, it'll lose the mass appeal. Would be like one of those cult bands with virtuosos that no one but the rather limited number of fans likes.
And the goal is cashing in. The wider the audience it reaches the more cash they'll make out of it. The majority of the public aren't hardcore gamers nor sim people. If you hope to make it like AC or iRacing, you'll make potential players ditch it for other more accessible and fun games

I kind of like https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/members/imari.129096/ response but mine is that I feel originally they had a fair claim at being a driving simulator which is a very open claim. Today I think they do not have a fair claim to the word simulation as a descriptor of GT but that is why they say the competition is unrealistically hard to drive so they can claim GT is realistic and therefore still simulation. Here is the thing though, AC isn't hard to drive with a wheel and iRacing is also not hard to drive with a wheel and I think anyone can see that the physics of GT are not realistic when playing with a controller and you can be erratic and not lose control like we know we would in real life. However even though some of us have experience enough to know that GT isn't realistic most people don't have real life experience with how cars lose control so most people can more easily believe the claim and then of course you have the ego thing. People like to think they are good at things and if something challenges their belief it is more likely to think that thing is wrong rather than yourself. This seems common with simulation, because of what simulation is missing from the real world, accurate simulation is actually harder than real life but we can quickly adapt with training and this is why real life race drivers often perform worse than we might expect in simulation while real sim drivers more often can easily switch to real life racing. The problem is when people are challenged with that reality that they are not as good as they thought in a simulation they believe there is an issue with the simulation. So that is why there is a market for GT physics and why people will believe the claim that it is realistic even though it is blatantly obvious it isn't.

However there is no such thing as a 100% accurate simulation. iRacing is too hard but only marginally. This is because the physics models are not perfected yet but it is so close now it is incredible and as close as you will get for a simulation IMO. The problem is the car everyone starts with on Road is one of the worst offenders and one of the most difficult so right in the beginning people are given an exaggerated impression and no doubt coming in with some game experience they would be drawing on that initially so if you try to drive iRacing like GT then you are going to fail. What makes iRacing harder than it should be is the way the cars lose grip and regain grip, this leads to some odd behaviour in the way cars lose control on the slightly difficult side of the spectrum but nothing as bizarre as how GT cars do not lose control. Assetto Corsa on the other hand is just on the other side of the realistic line, slightly easier than reality and this is why it is so highly praised because it is the most realistic simulator that isn't harder than perfect simulation. GT is no where near Assetto Corsa. Assetto Corsa will still be harder than real life especially with a controller but with a wheel Assetto Corsa is very familiar to real life and it is easy to drive, at least I think it is and many others do as well.

In my opinion iRacing is the most realistic simulator and the most complete simulator and nothing even comes remotely close to it but as far as the driving and handling of cars go on its own Assetto Corsa is the standard an simulator that wants to be accessible to the general public should be shooting for. It really is a shame that Kunos are not building the first esports title for console.

 

[Com Fox]

And sure comparisons can be made to the Prologues as have been but this is greater than both 4P and 5P

Not really a justified reason as GT5P was far greater in content than GT4P. So GTS could still be just continuing the trend.

Also like a Prologue, GTS has less content than the game that came before it.

 

[ScottPuss20]

True though non typical games usually have some single player campaign. Also Kaz said in an interview this is like GT7 (though I think it is lies to make people think it isn't a Prologue in disguise)


So removing something that is the only that some people can play, is unique in a positive light? Except for removing something, this seems to be the same old GT anyway just with an e-sport element on top if it.

Also tell that to Mario, Pokemon, Call of Duty etc.


Sonic and even card games like, Yugioh try that, they just receive backlash for moving away too much. Besides this isn't very, very different just because 1 mode of play is removed. That's like saying Mario Kart 7 is unique from Mario Kart Wii because MK7 removed Single Player VS Mode.


What about those with poor internet, or that you pretty much have to pay extra for online to even play this games main features? The thing is, the thing that got people hooked into GT in the first place is because of GT2, GT3 and GT4 Single Player mode, some of these players don't care for online when it was included in GT5 (I didn't care once Private GTP Online Racing Leagues became very scarce).


I agree, however but again, nothing is really changing, just being removed. Also it doesn't really mean you are being left behind, I mean PCars, Forza 6 etc. still support single player mode (Forza even supports Split Screen) and they are considered with the times and fantastic games.


Tell that to the game franchises I mentioned above.

Also I find ironic you posted this when GT is very behind in majority of other aspect *cough*sound*cough*

OK, let me simplify:
GT Sport is not your typical Gran Turismo game and I applaud PD for having the guts to break the 18 year old mold. They are making something that will get tonnes of attention because it is innovative, not because it has utilised the same old formula. PD want to shake up the market and I believe they have done that.

 

[Nato_777]

Not really a justified reason as GT5P was far greater in content than GT4P. So GTS could still be just continuing the trend.

Also like a Prologue, GTS has less content than the game that came before it.

So GT3 was a prologue then? It has less content then GT2.

 

[Nato_777]

Today I think they do not have a fair claim to the word simulation as a descriptor of GT but that is why they say the competition is unrealistically hard to drive so they can claim GT is realistic and therefore still simulation. Here is the thing though, AC isn't hard to drive with a wheel and iRacing is also not hard to drive with a wheel and I think anyone can see that the physics of GT are not realistic when playing with a controller and you can be erratic and not lose control like we know we would in real life. However even though some of us have experience enough to know that GT isn't realistic most people don't have real life experience with how cars lose control so most people can more easily believe the claim and then of course you have the ego thing.

The thing is with a controller is that it's a completely unnatural device for driving a car. If you replaced the steering wheel of a real car with a game controller it would certainly be near undriveable and have disastrous results. So a good simulator should contain an interface between the controller and the physics to level out the over-zealous inputs inevitable from a controller and make it actually playable. Assetto Corsa does this well and is easily driveable with a controller as does GT. Project CARS however does not and is very difficult with a controller - does that alone mean it has better physics than Assetto Corsa - I think not. All the sims I have tried with a wheel are easy to drive.
Having played GT6 with both a wheel and a controller you can really feel difference in the physics between the two control methods - feels much more natural with the wheel.
I certainly don't think you can judge how good a simulator a sim is by it's playability with a controller.

 

[Com Fox]

So GT3 was a prologue then? It has less content then GT2.

No because if you read my other posts, while I do think Less content back up that is a prologue there are plenty of other instances that make a Prologue judging by GT4P and GT5P that GTS has and GT3 doesn't.

OK, let me simplify:
GT Sport is not your typical Gran Turismo game and I applaud PD for having the guts to break the 18 year old mold. They are making something that will get tonnes of attention because it is innovative, not because it has utilised the same old formula. PD want to shake up the market and I believe they have done that.

You could've just said TL;DR since you just posted the same thing that I replied to before.

Removing a feature and adding E-sports on top of it, isn't innovative or breaking the mold in the slightest. That's like saying Pokemon was breaking the mold when they introduced E-Sports into the Pokemon games and eventually took out the Post-Game

 

[7HO]

Not really a justified reason as GT5P was far greater in content than GT4P. So GTS could still be just continuing the trend.

Also like a Prologue, GTS has less content than the game that came before it.

No game has come before GTS as it is not a part of the numbered series.

If this experiment is successful I also wouldn't be surprised if GTS is the first in a new series since it isn't a subscription service.

I actually think it is kind of funny to complain this is like a Prologue, I could almost take you more seriously if you were complaining about having to pay for the successor to GT Academy.

The thing is with a controller is that it's a completely unnatural device for driving a car. If you replaced the steering wheel of a real car with a game controller it would certainly be near undriveable and have disastrous results. So a good simulator should contain an interface between the controller and the physics to level out the over-zealous inputs inevitable from a controller and make it actually playable. Assetto Corsa does this well and is easily driveable with a controller as does GT. Project CARS however does not and is very difficult with a controller - does that alone mean it has better physics than Assetto Corsa - I think not. All the sims I have tried with a wheel are easy to drive.
Having played GT6 with both a wheel and a controller you can really feel difference in the physics between the two control methods - feels much more natural with the wheel.
I certainly don't think you can judge how good a simulator a sim is by it's playability with a controller.

It isn't an interface, it is dumbed down physics. The car is swerving side to side but doesn't lose control as if it has Koenigsegg stability control fitted except they worked out how to make it so it doesn't wash off as much speed. I'd buy what you are saying if the cars movements were not reflecting the inputs but I can't see the inputs in the video, what I can see is a car swerving side to side erratically but not behaving the way it should.

But I get it, they want to make a game that is accessible to people who have controllers. I just don't like that they say their physics are more realistic than the competition because they are easier and the competition is too hard.

Also Assetto Corsa is no easier than iRacing with a controller. I had my PC out in the lounge room the other week and curiosity got the better of me so I did some driving with my Logitech F710 on iRacing and Assetto Corsa, I didn't enjoy either. I do agree though, all sims are easy enough to drive with a wheel but for someone going directly from GT or Forza to iRacing it isn't as easy.

I had a kid in the street telling my sons that he would be much better than them at iRacing because he was OP in his mind at Forza, he had never seen iRacing. When he first saw my rig he told my kids they were so lucky to have a Dad with that setup. Then one day he came over with a bunch of kids and every kid had a go before him but when he saw them having their turns he changed his mind and suddenly he was afraid to try it. Eventually we convinced him to try it but he struggled more than any of the other kids however he was also the most determined so I gave him some instruction and walked away, gave him some more instruction and walked away. We left him in there for ages until I finally wanted back on my rig. His mind had been blown, although he was still not at the level of my kids he thought iRacing was incredible and he did not want to get off my rig.

So going from GT or Forza to a sim like iRacing can be hard and while iracing is easy enough to drive and I think anyone can learn it quickly, it isn't easy.

 

[Com Fox]

No game has come before GTS as it is not a part of the numbered series.

Not talking about GT "Series" but GT "Franchise".

If this was "successful" I doubt a GTS 2 would even happen. E-Sports would just be incorporated in GT7 making GTS look even more like a Prologue.

I actually think it is kind of funny to complain this is like a Prologue, I could almost take you more seriously if you were complaining about having to pay for the successor to GT Academy.

You've been writing so much you forgot how this Prologue debate even started, I have no issues with Prologues, I just think GTS is a Prologue that has been marketed differently. You disagreed with me and here we are.