GT4 vs Enthusia vs GT-R

[dolande]

Don’t know a lot about “real racing”, but I hope you guys doing the GT4 vs GTR comparison are comparing GT4 race cars vs GTR race cars: Weight transfer? I don’t thing there is a lot of weight transfer on racing cars (as well as suspension travel), at least not something you can “fell” only with your vision.

 

[MR_GT]

Don’t know a lot about “real racing”, but I hope you guys doing the GT4 vs GTR comparison are comparing GT4 race cars vs GTR race cars: Weight transfer? I don’t thing there is a lot of weight transfer on racing cars (as well as suspension travel), at least not something you can “fell” only with your vision

Actually with real racing you have to "feel" the weight transfer much more than in regular driving. Race car driving is all about feeling weight transfer and controling it. You're probably talking about "roll" which is different from weight transfer...You can feel a lot of roll with regular cars compared to racing cars.

 

[95nismo]

Not true. There are assits turned on by default, called active steering or something. To get a true experience with the DFP you need to go into the wheel menu and turn assists off then set the steering to sim from the default of amateur.



BTW to the guy who started this thread. Honestly with the DFP and all assists off (car and wheel) GT4 is a totally different game. I first started playing GT4 with the dual shock (and all assists off) as I have always done with GT games. I could make the cars dance. I would almost never lose control, the car was my puppet. Big long drift around a high speed turn with road tyres? Not a problem. Then I got the wheel.

I first took an R34 GTR v-spec II N1 out for a spin on road tyres (no assists of any kind) at Grand Valley. It took untill about lap 6 before I made my first lap without a spin. Playing GT4 with a Dual Shock verses the DFP is night and day. I could do what ever I wanted with a DS but with the DFP I have to make sure all my inputs are as smooth as possible.

Go back on play GT4 without assists and then do your review again.

I am 99% sure that the assist type in GT4 (such as professional, simulation, etc.) have no use when using a DFP. It says so at the bottom of the screen. Those assists are to compress a full range of wheel travel in to the limited 200 or so degree rotation of lesser steering wheels. With the DFP, it is all linear all the time.

 

[dolande]

Actually with real racing you have to "feel" the weight transfer much more than in regular driving. Race car driving is all about feeling weight transfer and controling it. You're probably talking about "roll" which is different from weight transfer...You can feel a lot of roll with regular cars compared to racing cars.

MR_TG thanks you’re your clarification. You have to “fell it” you won’t “see it” by looking at your screen so I guess if a sim does a great job in this regard it will more challenge but not necessary more fun. I think the two games can’t be compare since they are aim to slightly different crowds.

BTW I downloaded GTR demo and I agree with the comments of better sound (and music)

 

[nasanu]

I am 99% sure that the assist type in GT4 (such as professional, simulation, etc.) have no use when using a DFP. It says so at the bottom of the screen. Those assists are to compress a full range of wheel travel in to the limited 200 or so degree rotation of lesser steering wheels. With the DFP, it is all linear all the time.

Actually I think you are right with the amateur, pro and sim settings. However active steering applies to all wheels. The game says active steering reduces the likelihood of spinning out, so one would assume them mean it reduces steering inputs at high speed.

Anyway before anyone 'reviews' GT4 then should be using the DFP with this setting set to off.

 

[nasanu]

Actually with real racing you have to "feel" the weight transfer much more than in regular driving. Race car driving is all about feeling weight transfer and controling it. You're probably talking about "roll" which is different from weight transfer...You can feel a lot of roll with regular cars compared to racing cars.

Perhaps you have to feel it more, or fell it as people here seem to like saying, because there is less of it. A road car does have more weight transfer. A road car is heavier, has a higher center of gravity and is softer sprung. Being able to control weight transfer is critical in road car racing. You could say that because there is far less transfer in a race car that a feel for weight transfer is less important than in production car racing.

 

[Gek54]

Not true. There are assits turned on by default, called active steering or something. To get a true experience with the DFP you need to go into the wheel menu and turn assists off then set the steering to sim from the default of amateur.

Yes, even with sim steering and all asists off, GT4 will not let you do donuts as you should.

 

[Mister E]

Wow GTR, what a terribly over hyped game.

Going by some in here, you'd think that its the next best thing sinced slice bread, seriously what is the hype behind it ?

I don't care how more "realistic" it is over GT4, the actual driving in GT4 seems way more satisfying and polished.

This is the classic response of a special species of idiot who either does not have a wheel, or has one but can't leave the pits without demolishing their car. They're probably not used to the thought of damage or realistic traction loss.

Sadly, they thrive in this part of the internet.

 

[DevilGTx]

Mr. E,
their rooting for the underdog.
But, I believe that The KING cannot be usurped.

Hype is infectious because it gives people something to have faith in, and become so firm in their beliefs that they never open their eyes and look at other things to compare. They never feel the disappointment, either.

Want some examples?

 

[Gek54]

Want some examples?

Yes.

 

[devilman2075]

or has one but can't leave the pits without demolishing their car. They're probably not used to the thought of damage or realistic traction loss.

Sadly, they thrive in this part of the internet.

umm...i love gtr...the demo i have played and i want teh game btu need to save up...but that soudns like me the first few times...wow is that agme fun and addicting but hard when ur not used to it

 

[the real 6c]

Gek, upon further review of those graphs, I have to admit I may have rushed my opinion. THey are still a bit different, but that could be due to differences in drivers inputs, traffic, conditions, car setup.....the list could go on and on.

I wasn't judging the game on the graph so much as using the graph as evidence that they are so close to each other. I just don't think that determination can be made from them.

 

[Gek54]

The graphs are there to show you just how close all the calculations really are in the game. I think it is a pretty bold statement by Konami. You dont see graphs like these from other game makers. Hopefully they will start now.

 

[DevilGTx]

Example :
I have a friend named Brian.
Brian has his XBox so far stuck up his own butt that he still thinks that DOA3 is the best and most realistic fighting game ever made.
Recently, he tried Virtua Fighter 4 Evo on my PS2. And couldn't believe how "real" it seemed.
He is also what I call a "Halo-person." This condition of his finds its roots way back with GoldenEye64, which he insisted was the best shooter ever made despite the fact that Turok 2/Rage Wars, Perfect Dark, and Quake had come out for the 64, and there was a whole slew of excellent shotters on the PC (Q, Q2, HL, etc.)
He believes Halo2 to be the BEST GAME EVER.
He tried playing a FPS with some speed once, TimeSplitters 2, and totally hated it.
He abhors Quake 3.

More?
People who play Madden because they think it is the best football game and will not consider trying another.

More?
I know of people who would never play Splinter Cell because they believe the "true definition" of a stealth/espionage game is Metal Gear Solid.

More?
Even though they have never played, seen or heard Gran Turismo 4, some people are 100% sure that it can't have the best physics, the best sound, or the best graphics compared to "that other game" which they have never played, seen, or heard simply because it exists only on the PS2, which they don't own or play.

I love reading all the posts calling somebody a "fanboy" when the poster is simply being a "bizarro fanboy." (think Seinfeld)
"...yeah, well, you're just an anti-fanboy."
"oh, yeah...well, yer just an non-anti-fanboy!!!"

 

[woodstock827]

i just went to a store and they were having Enthusia playing on their TV/PS2s..
since they just left the machine on and no one was playing... the openning video and the miata comparison were showing continously in a loop...
the opening video where the women photographer and the EVO crash was GREAT... feel more tense than GT4 openning (esp NA one with its crapping music)..

but now the Miata comparison video.... the quality of the "game" video is soooo bad i feel like i'm watching it over the internet... so i'm wondering if that's the video level of the game, or just that video sucked? i was gonna buy it until i saw that part.... just thought i should come and make sure first.... anyone can help answer please?

 

[blayzzz]

This is the classic response of a special species of idiot who either does not have a wheel, or has one but can't leave the pits without demolishing their car. They're probably not used to the thought of damage or realistic traction loss.

Sadly, they thrive in this part of the internet.

Err.... no


I have the DFP with the latest drivers and I sure as hell know how to throttle control, don't instant assume things because Im new to this board, you are hyping it to be the greatest thing ever and it simply isn't as polished as GT4 let alone anywhere near as fun.

 

[Mister E]

I don't care how new to the board you are. If you were a moderator I would have said the same thing.

I won't respect your opinion until you give some reasons for it, besides "lack of polish" (which I don't understand at all, since the quality of the game is pretty much top notch). Why is it less fun? The only thing that I would see as un-fun in this game is the level of difficulty for beginners. It's simply too frustrating, the learning curve being so steep.

What mode did you play (Arcade, Semi-Pro, or Simulation)? What car?

I just don't see how you can dismiss a game in five minutes.

 

[KoukiFC3S]

I agree. 5 minutes is not enought time to judge a game.
GTR is an awesome game, but it's pretty hard! Gotta practice more!


"Enthusia, the donut simulator"

 

[MR_GT]

I agree. 5 minutes is not enought time to judge a game.
GTR is an awesome game, but it's pretty hard! Gotta practice more!


"Enthusia, the donut simulator"

Hahaha...Yeah, Enthusia really is a donut simulator...those graphs and comparisons to real life are just a bunch of bull. I actually saw those graphs and comparisons before buying the game, and unfortunately I rushed to the store to get my copy of Enthusia.

I can't wait to try out GTR too...I haven't tried it yet, but it's probably more difficult like the past computer simulators. One problem with computer simulators (for some reason) is that they're more difficult than reality. Actually driving a racing car is not that difficult. It's not as easy as GT4 or other arcade type games either. I wish someone would make something in between.

 

[Mister E]

Hahaha...Yeah, Enthusia really is a donut simulator...those graphs and comparisons to real life are just a bunch of bull. I actually saw those graphs and comparisons before buying the game, and unfortunately I rushed to the store to get my copy of Enthusia.

I can't wait to try out GTR too...I haven't tried it yet, but it's probably more difficult like the past computer simulators. One problem with computer simulators (for some reason) is that they're more difficult than reality. Actually driving a racing car is not that difficult. It's not as easy as GT4 or other arcade type games either. I wish someone would make something in between.

In GTR, it's called "Semi-Pro" mode.

And I think the difficulty has to do with the fact that you're not feeling the G-forces or subtle vibrations through the chassis.

 

[McLaren]

Err.... no


I have the DFP with the latest drivers and I sure as hell know how to throttle control, don't instant assume things because Im new to this board, you are hyping it to be the greatest thing ever and it simply isn't as polished as GT4 let alone anywhere near as fun.

It sounds like you aren't giving it time, which only equals that its becoming too frustrating for you.

GTR is way more polished as GT4. Hell, it puts it to shame.

PC Sims have always had the giant advantage over Console Sims besides F355. However, if you played F355, you'd probably say it isn't as fun nor "as polished" as GT4, but in reality is a better sim as GTR.

 

[the real 6c]

between GTR and GT4, i am a fan of racing games. i would say if i have 50 games for pc/ps2 38-40 are racing games like the nascar racing series(pc), F1 series (pc), GPL, GTR, GP4, and then the gt series for PS2, along with other for PS2. I do not back GTR because I am blindly thinking its better. The first time i played it I about pee'd my pants. I was stotally stoked at the sounds and graphics, the handling of the car.

I like realistic racing games. Gran turismo series games don't appeal to me as much because of thier lack of realism. I still enjoy them, but i play them more for entertainment value opposed to trying to be the best. If I actually want to improve my driving, i'll play a game like GTR, or F1.

the way i see it, if you are in the pits and jump ona car full throttle and drive right away without jumping sideways or worse, how can you think that is "real" You cannot jump in a car like an F1, GT1, or even a winston cup car and do that without some serious concentration. the slightest steering input can send the car around faster than you can imagine. With all the assists turned off in GT4, you still can jump right in and do that. YTou will do a big burnout, but that car doesn't come right around.
For an example....if you have the assists turned off and on a rolling start in GT4 you do a big burnout with the Toyota 88v-c(or c-v?) that car doesn't come around even if you are on a banked corner. Now, if you watch racing, you have seen at one time a guy jump on the gas and get sideways on a start/restart. He might have saved it but i will garuntee you if you saw it, if he didn't crash or collect other drivers...he lost alot of time. You can't just jump on the throttle like that in real life. I don't see how you can call it a simulation if you can.

That is why i think GTR is a much better game if you are looking for a "real driving simulator"

 

[Gek54]

He is also what I call a "Halo-person." This condition of his finds its roots way back with GoldenEye64, which he insisted was the best shooter ever made despite the fact that Turok 2/Rage Wars, Perfect Dark, and Quake had come out for the 64, and there was a whole slew of excellent shotters on the PC (Q, Q2, HL, etc.)
He believes Halo2 to be the BEST GAME EVER.
He tried playing a FPS with some speed once, TimeSplitters 2, and totally hated it.
He abhors Quake 3.

Whoa, are you actually trying to say Turok2 was a good FPS? Perfect Dark wasnt a all out better FPS either having BAD framerate problems. When it comes to Quake and Timesplitters, they have very different gameplay styles and you cant blame him for prefering a certain style. You can always argue accuracy but you cant argue fun.

 

[Mister E]

Well, I tried to go from the German version to the International release, and now GTR crapped on me. Can't even play...

So now I hate it. I tried for three hours to get it working last night, to no avail.

Nevermind, I think I'll keep trying. I need my fix. It's like a drug, I tell you.

 

[BenW]

I downloaded the GTR demo and played it with the DFP wheel. Like someone said above, I nearly peed my pants too.
The interface IMO seems much more like a SIMULATOR than GT4. THis is just first impressions though.
The sounds in GTR do truly trump GT4 as well. Gearbox whine that drives my dog out of the room, thats what I call sound.

 

[oryan_dunn]

An update after spending a while with the demo of GTR. The game is amazing as a simulator. I've never actually driven a Ferrari around Spa, but I imagine that this game gives a pretty good feel for it. The graphics and especially the sounds are incredible. Having said that, I doubt I'll spend alot of time with this game. I have yet to complete a clean lap at spa (after probably 20-30 laps), and my laps that I do get that are really close to being clean and on the track for the entire way are no where close to the lap times that the PC puts up. The fustratrion of it gets to me. It may be real, but I don't know how much time i'll spend mastering every car and every track. I think it is really cool that there is a game like GTR for the people who do want such a simulator. But for me, I think I'll stick to the slightly less realistic and more laid back GT4. I may still pick up GTR, just because I"m a race fan. I do like the ability to download more cars and tracks.

Ryan,

PS. I was testing GTR with my DFP set at 270 degrees to match the 360's wheel.

 

[oryan_dunn]

The most recent issue of PC Gamer (May, 2005) rates GTR. They give it a 91%, which any game that gets above a 90 in that mag is really good. I guess I'd like to try out the full version with other tracks and cars.

PC Gamer:
Highs: Hyper-realistic physics; exquisite track and vehicle renders; seamless multiplay.

Lows: Stability issues; high system demands; steep learning curve.

Bottom Line: It's the new benchmark for sports-car racing simulations.
Editors Choice 91%

 

[NSX-R]

Sure, I agree with you guys. GT4's race-car realism isn't really something that can be compared with GTR's. However, I am curious about the GT's "street legal" car's realism. They don't have excessive amount of horsepower, and the touque is relatively down because of lack of horse. Is GT's "dumped-down realism" real enough on every-day cars like FD, R34, NA2???

 

[Boris Lozac]

Come on guys... i didn't play GT4 yet, i am getting it these days. .. but i am playing GTR, and LFS..
GTR is very good, but it does not suite my driving style... This is like Formula 1, i mean you can compare those GTR cars with BMW, Hondas, and other street cars, i mean it's totaly diiferent..
The thing i don't like in GTR is that you CAN'T correct one single little mistake, i mean really, it pisses me off... And when you stand still, and just slightly push the gas, it momenterally goes 180! It just like someone lift the car and rotate it 180 degrees.. it is so irritating...
I love the feeling in LFS when you make a mistake, your brakes lock up, you can still TRY to take control over the car, and make it, while GTR won't let you do that, ONE LITTLE MISTAKE and you are going backwards...
I don't know, i am just not a fan of those perfect laps, F1 type of cars, i wanna slide a car a bit...

 

[the hodge man]

i have seen a video of an audi r8 in enthusia and it sounds exactly the same as the real thing and the long echo down the race track is there to!