GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]

[Front]

Driving in GT3 with the steering assist off is HARD. I'm mean very difficult. To the point where it's not fun for me anymore. So yeah, I have the steering assist on. Does that mean I should be automatically penalized, even if my times are faster then a driver not using aids? It just seems like a somewhat unfair feature to me. Now, if it can be turned on and off, then that makes all the difference in the world.

Your not being penalized.. Your just not being rewarded as much as you would have if you had done it without the assists, You still win and advance you just won't have won as much...

Also when you get used to all assists being off you are generally a faster driver as you can push the car to the absolute limit, that may just be a personal opinion on occasions I will use steering aids in games such as GTR lol

lets just say 600bhp without some aids is crazy...

 

[DappaDaRealist]

So you agree with my list Forza Motorsport was first with these 'features'

I'm simply pointing out that GT4 has done very little to progress from GT3 which is cool... The better graphics thing and the crap load of cars appeals to people...

DONT FORGET GT4 had a much improved Physics engine.

 

[Swift]

Your not being penalized.. Your just not being rewarded as much as you would have if you had done it without the assists, You still win and advance you just won't have won as much...

Also when you get used to all assists being off you are generally a faster driver as you can push the car to the absolute limit, that may just be a personal opinion on occasions I will use steering aids in games such as GTR lol

lets just say 600bhp without some aids is crazy...

Well, just so you know. I drive in GT3 with the TCS and ASM both off. I'd turn off the ABS but you can't. Sure, without the aids you can potentially become a better driver. No argument there. I just don't think it's a feature that belongs in a simulation to get rewarded for not having ABS on.

 

[Kent]

Forza Console Simulation Racing 'Firsts'

Risk-based reward system: "You can win more money by racing with some of the game assists turned off. For example, you will earn more money for winning a race using a manual transmission than you will if you race with an automatic. The same goes for racing with the damage system turned off, or by racing with the assists (such as ABS brakes) turned off. "
Possible first and the only one on this list worth mentioning (imo)

-------------------
Online Trading:
Not a first: sega GT online as mentioned above

------------------------
Real World Mods:
Interesting promise

---------------------------
Engine Swaps:
Possible first?

--------------------------
Dual Arm Suspension:
Nice way of re-stating what GT has already done

-------------------------
Air Physics System:
GT already did this... adjustable downforce!
Plus, how else do you get an R390GT1 race car doing 2 backflips on seattle!

----------------------
Drivatar:

Opponent racers come to life with "Emotion" physics

... wouldn't be the first time a company tried to sell the idea of good AI racers...
Plus, rivalry/grudge systems have been done before this more than once

-----------------------
Tire Physics:
All games in the GT series!
(promises restating old ideas in new ways do not make old ideas new again!)

--------------------------
Persistent environmental damage:
Possible first
(but I doubt it since several games from the past have had marking systems for the tracks)


I think it would be best to save comparisons for a time when both of the games can be played in full. 👍

 

[Drift-Kid]

ACTUALLY aUTO mODELISTA was the first ot have motor swap.....a horrible option o nthat game because you could only swap with cars of the same manufacuer and the n you couldnt even mod the engin..i thoguht that was the dumbist thing....hopefullly the Forza swaps will be better..........

 

[Front]

Online Trading:
Not a first: sega GT online as mentioned above

I stated online trading of customised cars which includes body kits and any modifications done to said car.

Real World Mods:
Interesting promise

Another First

Engine Swaps:

Possible first?

Another First

Dual Arm Suspension:
Nice way of re-stating what GT has already done

GT's suspension only goes up and down so it does not count

Air Physics System:
GT already did this... adjustable downforce!
Plus, how else do you get an R390GT1 race car doing 2 backflips on seattle!

I'll conceed this one until Forza produces more information

Drivatar:

... wouldn't be the first time a company tried to sell the idea of good AI racers...
Plus, rivalry/grudge systems have been done before this more than once

Another First for Forza Motorsport is unique as in you can train your own AI to be as good as you and have a similar driving style to you.

And as far as i'm aware you will be able to download peoples drivatars of live how cool is that.

Tire Physics:
All games in the GT series!
(promises restating old ideas in new ways do not make old ideas new again!)

Forzas Tire physics are way more advanced than GT's but i'll conceed this because it's not very new

Persistent environmental damage:
Possible first
(but I doubt it since several games from the past have had marking systems for the tracks)

No game I know of has "persistant" enviromental damage.

Another First for Forza

I think it would be best to save comparisons for a time when both of the games can be played in full. 👍

I agree

 

[Symtex]

That's an arcade type of feature. Like gettin boost for sliding in NFS:U2. It's not helping the driving aspect or in any way realistic. That's all I'm saying.

Driving in GT3 with the steering assist off is HARD. I'm mean very difficult. To the point where it's not fun for me anymore. So yeah, I have the steering assist on. Does that mean I should be automatically penalized, even if my times are faster then a driver not using aids? It just seems like a somewhat unfair feature to me. Now, if it can be turned on and off, then that makes all the difference in the world.

Why are you considering this as an arcade features ? It's just rewarding with a bit more credit the people that took the hard way.

coming from a guys who's promoting a games that has NOS a la NFSU..I'm just kidding but you see how I can play with word and made you think that a features is arcade like ? I know that GT is very hard with a wheel. I grant you that. If you win a race without the assist, would you prefer to receive 8000 or 5000 cr ?

 

[tha_con]

So you agree with my list Forza Motorsport was first with these 'features'

I'm simply pointing out that GT4 has done very little to progress from GT3 which is cool... The better graphics thing and the crap load of cars appeals to people..

I think it's cool that Forza Motorsport has been adding new features that no one has done before. But I suppose stating that in a GT Forum is a big no-no. Because I'd feel bitter because PD refuse to add the simplist things the fans beg for skidmarks and reverse lights spring to mind

I find it childish you try and attack me for stating my opinion, but again I could hardly care...

I find it confusing how very few people seem to understand what it is I try to get across...I must write too complex...who knows.

Point: You haven't played Forza enough, with enough cars, to justify any of that as even being done well.

The "air physics" that are a "first" are beyond me. Do you think that GT doesn't have "air physics"? Come on now...

The AI? Highly overrated. Drivatar? HIGHLY overrated.

I can go on and on, yes they are firsts, but they are not as amazing and noteworthy as one would praise them to be.

It's not an attack on your opinoin, however, your efforts are more than one sided as you are only trying to make Forza to be the ultimately better game without any positive on the side of GT4.

You are extremely biased, so before you cheat some potential fan out of a good experience with both games, I'll correct you every chance I get.

 

[Jubei]

In all honesty I have to say that I have always been a GT fanboy. Don't get me wrong I still try/buy other racing games but for some reason (maybe because the GT series rocks) I have always come back and favored GT. I plan on buying GT4 the morning it comes out and playing it non stop until my wife shoots me or my son wants to hang out. But, if the physics of Forza are even half way decent I will buy that the day it comes out to. The truth is if you really like certain cars, even if they are considered stupid or rice to some, you might want to purchase both games just because they have different ones. Today I was just thinking I would have loved to see my first car, a '99 Civic Si in electron blue pearl in GT4. It's not there, lo and behold it showed up in the Forza list. GT4 has most of my other cars in (Bugeye WRX in silver, 2000 A4-or S4 I should say, and the 2004 A4-same thing) but it's always kind of cool if you like a certain car to play it in the game. Let me also say that I know other people, maybe even including Kaz, could care less about what I like. It's just cool to see another developer does. Cheers to all others that share my thoughts, to those that don't maybe it's best to just wait and play both yourself and draw conclusions then. Peace.

 

[Drift-Kid]

aUTO mODELISTA was the first ot have motor swap------------guess no one check my post..

i say again Forza is not the First with Motor SWAPS..THO am SWAPS SUCKED BADLY....

SRS also had Real World mods.......So did NFSU and GT3----all games usually most games have Real world mods....just not all of them are as detailed(excluding th fak ass body kits in Nfsu and nfsu2)

 

[Dave A]

People, read Tha_con's preview, FIRST HAND in this thread here
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=46304&page=1&pp=40
I've noticed loads of people saying things like how do you know the tyre physics are so good ect, Tha_con covers most of it and yes the tyre physics are according to him very good. You all know Tha_con well enough from this thread, he'll defend GT to the end and I find his opinion of Forza unbiased and fair. His first preview comments are a few pages into the thread but don't go speculating on Forza until you've read that because it's pointless speculating if such a feature is any good when you can know in a few minuets of reading.

 

[tha_con]

L4S....it's useless...no one likes me

 

[XCNuse]

well.. just got some sound clips of a WRX.. turns out GT4 sounds ARE extremely REAL.. sad thing is.. you only hear what they sound like from the inside....

had a dB test inside a stock WRX; whined as much as it does in the GT4 clip, however... they sound nothing alike from the outside.. which is quite upsetting

 

[Swift]

L4S....it's useless...no one likes me

Uh....didn't you get my PM?

 

[tha_con]

* looks at post *


....L4S...it's useless...no one but you and swift like me

 

[McLaren]

I stated online trading of customised cars which includes body kits and any modifications done to said car.

Another First

Wrong. You could do the same in Sega GT.

And wrong about engine swaps.
TXR3 had it.

Please research.

 

[Dave A]

I'm sure there are others, unfortunately you have to have something people want for people to actually say they like you online, most of the time anyway.

 

[McLaren]

well.. just got some sound clips of a WRX.. turns out GT4 sounds ARE extremely REAL.. sad thing is.. you only hear what they sound like from the inside....

had a dB test inside a stock WRX; whined as much as it does in the GT4 clip, however... they sound nothing alike from the outside.. which is quite upsetting

NO, not really. They are NOT extremely real.
Good, but not the real deal.

 

[XCNuse]

..their pretty close to the internal sounds....

 

[Dave A]

Not on EVERY car. I haven't been inmost the cars in GT4 so I can't comment but I have been in a few notable ones like a Jaguar XK8 and a guy near me owns a Chevy Corvette Z06 (odd in Didsbury I know but there is a Corvette Z06 in there) which sounds very different to the sounds in GT4. Also Honda NSX's sound differect, from the outside at least. I could go on but theres no point, some are close some are way off.

 

[wolf8218]

i almost bought an xbox today.












almost.

 

[98cobra]

i almost bought an xbox today.












almost.

Do it. I have both.

 

[animateria]

i almost bought an xbox today.

almost.

Was that ALMOST for Forza? I do want a X-Box for the Rally games... And FPS games... And well... Forza.... I think I'll buy Enthusia for PS2 if it has enough differences from GT4...

 

[McLaren]

..their pretty close to the internal sounds....

That's not a good thing really.

Internal sounds and exterior sounds should sound different in a lot of cars.
I'll be sure to listen to the sounds of the NSXs in the game, and trust me, when they are stock, the interior is quite, and the exterior has a good rumble.

 

[wonderpill]

thats because the sound inside the car was not done in stereo, and neither was the outside sound, to be honest, I don't understand how half of these companies think of how to reproduce engine sounds. Seriously, if you take the most powerful microphone, and just record, when you play it back it is a 2 dimensional sound. It was a 3 dimensional sound to start with but since it is reproduce from one direction to another, it is linear instead of dynamic.

what they should have done, was use a manakin head made of ballistics gel, and insert High power condenser mics where the ears would be, including ear lobes. Now if you were to play back these sounds through high response headphones, and include a subwoofer for the bass vibrations, if you were to close your eyes you would swear that you are there.

 

[kinigitt]

* looks at post *


....L4S...it's useless...no one but you and swift like me

I liked your hands-on report. keep em coming. 👍

 

[wonderpill]

Oh yeah one other thing I forgot to mention, how often are you RIGHT BEHIND a moving vehicle while it accelerates... never unless you are skitching... the big difference you are used to, and no its not just the thing that tells you the weather forcast, is called the DOPPLER effect.

For those of you who haven't taken 4th grade science, this effect is noticeable in any object that moves toards a center point of reception and then away from it. Sound waves from moving objects are compressed in the direction they are moving, and stretched in the direction they are moving away from. Doppler effect can also be noticed in anything that creates vibrations, like a motor boat creates a doppler effect in the water.

 

[kinigitt]

Oh yeah one other thing I forgot to mention, how often are you RIGHT BEHIND a moving vehicle while it accelerates... never unless you are skitching... the big difference you are used to, and no its not just the thing that tells you the weather forcast, is called the DOPPLER effect.

For those of you who haven't taken 4th grade science, this effect is noticeable in any object that moves toards a center point of reception and then away from it. Sound waves from moving objects are compressed in the direction they are moving, and stretched in the direction they are moving away from. Doppler effect can also be noticed in anything that creates vibrations, like a motor boat creates a doppler effect in the water.

really doesn't matter when we're talking about low quality sound engineering in a video game. If the engines sound wierd and unrealistic, it should be just as important as the car model looking wierd and unrealistic. They don't let any of those into a gt game, so why not spend the same amount of effort on the audio?

other racing games (like, pretty much every new racing game) has better sound than GT (more raw and lifelike, more direct, better 3d effects)

I haven't played GT4, just watched vids and read opinions. But if it sounds anything like GT3, I know the sound will be sup-par (and from current impressions, it is)

That said, my favourite car so far is still the Vanquish. sounds yummy.

 

[code_kev]

It does seem that people are VERY quick to accept anything being new or uber in GT, but at the very mention of anything being great in forza, a stink is kicked up. Odd that.
Fronts post listing the stuff was hardly fanboyish tbh.

 

[XCNuse]

oh i know its a sad thing.. im upset its only one sound; they all sound weird if your in the chase view