GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]

[Dave A]

Hmm, I wouldn't got that far, in terms of enjoyment GT4 with the DFP s superb and no game with a pad IMO could match. Playing Forza with the new wheel on the other hand should match or exeed that, all it needs is for the wheel to be sturdy and for you to feel it. Thats the most important thing about a game wheel.

 

[Symtex]

Hmm, I wouldn't got that far, in terms of enjoyment GT4 with the DFP s superb and no game with a pad IMO could match. Playing Forza with the new wheel on the other hand should match or exeed that, all it needs is for the wheel to be sturdy and for you to feel it. Thats the most important thing about a game wheel.

I agree. The wheel will be an important part in the success of Forza. It does play pretty good with the controller but it's no match to the DFP.

 

[James2097]

Is there a good wheel coming out for Forza?

 

[Der Alta]

I expect from this point forward, this thread will remain free of spam.

If it does not, it will be locked, and the spammer will be banned outright. The moderators have spent a good amount of their time cleaning this thread up. Yes, we have a record copy of it in it's original form.

Commence bannings.

Der Alta

 

[code_kev]

Is there a good wheel coming out for Forza?

Well people have linked an xbox wheel that is said to have force feedback, but no one seems to know whether it actually does, or if it is any good. I'd get you thie link, but frankly I'm too lazy, and I'm sure some one else will post it anyways.

 

[SimRaceDriver]

Well people have linked an xbox wheel that is said to have force feedback, but no one seems to know whether it actually does, or if it is any good. I'd get you thie link, but frankly I'm too lazy, and I'm sure some one else will post it anyways.

Though the article is dated June 04'....IGN states the xBox does NOT support FFB as of yet...so, while there are a few wheels (MadCatz is the first to come to mind), all you're going to get out of it (wheel) is vibration feedback...

Sad thing, considering MS had some decent wheels back in the day for the PC but couldn't get their act together to make one or two that would work on the xBox!

Oh well!

 

[Symtex]

I went to the store yesterday to pre-order GT4 and the owner had a copy of GT4 japanese. Since I go there a lot, they let me play with it. So i loaded Laguna Seca so I can compare it to Forza Laguna Seca.

First thing I notice is the left turn after the S turn is still off on GT4 version. Maybe someone can correct me on that. The rest of the track is well done and it's very similar in both products. I though that Forza representation of Laguna seca was more accurate.

I have also notice the bland colors of Seca in both version. They have clean out GT4's version alot and it looks alot better. I always thought it was not very well done in GT3.

I'll try to suck up to the owner and spent more time with it next time.

 

[GT Obsession]

GT3 was good in it's time. But now that I see GT4 pics, I realize all the things that GT3 missed graphically.

 

[tha_con]

It took me 3 goes with the Forza demo before I could set aside my GT fanboyism to really see what Forza offers and I was pleasently surprised. Forza >>>>> GT4 with Dualshock2. Forza = GT4 with driving force pro.

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

So first you accuse MEEEEEE of making "excuses" for things, yet now you are making INSANE claims?

Forza=GT4 with DS2. Forza<GT4+DFP.

Period.

Either you haven't played either of them at all, or you are just making things up due to insecurities and want to save face, but that comment is just rediculous, period, lol.

 

[James2097]

About the official Forza wheel that features "Force Effects" and "Vibration Effects", but not apparently full force feedback...

Everything I keep reading just suggests it turns the wheel when you hit something. Like when you hit a car or wall it will turn the wheel in a spasm of collision party time. As opposed to other FF wheels that will fight/give resistance if your just cornering as well as when you hit something, like the natural pull of the wheel in real life driving. I assume that given that they can make the wheel move to some degree, very clever game code implemented for the wheel may make it possible to emulate proper force feedback in a very unconventional way..? The Forza team is working really hard directly with the wheel manufacturers to find a work around apparently. Damn those Xbox USB style controller ports! Apologies if the wheel has been talked about at length already.

 

[WRX02Slowness]

I went to the store yesterday to pre-order GT4 and the owner had a copy of GT4 japanese. Since I go there a lot, they let me play with it. So i loaded Laguna Seca so I can compare it to Forza Laguna Seca.

First thing I notice is the left turn after the S turn is still off on GT4 version. Maybe someone can correct me on that. The rest of the track is well done and it's very similar in both products. I though that Forza representation of Laguna seca was more accurate.

I have also notice the bland colors of Seca in both version. They have clean out GT4's version alot and it looks alot better. I always thought it was not very well done in GT3.

I'll try to suck up to the owner and spent more time with it next time.

I'm sure the guy you suck up to reads this forum. Good luck with that.

Jay

 

[Symtex]

I'm sure the guy you suck up to reads this forum. Good luck with that.

Jay

I am good customer so i'm sure he doesn't mind.

 

[Front]

Forza Console Simulation Racing 'Firsts'

Risk-based reward system: "You can win more money by racing with some of the game assists turned off. For example, you will earn more money for winning a race using a manual transmission than you will if you race with an automatic. The same goes for racing with the damage system turned off, or by racing with the assists (such as ABS brakes) turned off. "

Online Trading: Trade your customised cars online.

Real World Mods: If you can buy it in Forza Motorsport then you can buy it in real life.

Engine Swaps: Ability to swap engines beetween cars only if it conforms to real life situations.

Dual Arm Suspension: This means your car wheels can tilt slightly as well as go up and down. An important factor for cornering.

Air Physics System: The physics model calculates drag as well as lift cause by air going under the car.

Drivatar: Learning AI that mimics your driving style for use as team driving or to race against others in your absence.

Tire Physics: "We received confidential real-world tire data from engineers at Toyo tires to help us develop and tune our tire physics. We spent over a month developing the tire physics and two months tuning the tire compounds and tire types. "

Persistent environmental damage: paint etchings on guardrails, tread marks on the pavement, all remain there until the end of the race.

[Source]

Any GT fans willing to put a list of GT4 'Firsts' since the way I see it GT4 is a rehash of GT3 with pretty graphics.....

 

[Swift]

Forza Console Simulation Racing 'Firsts'

Risk-based reward system: "You can win more money by racing with some of the game assists turned off. For example, you will earn more money for winning a race using a manual transmission than you will if you race with an automatic. The same goes for racing with the damage system turned off, or by racing with the assists (such as ABS brakes) turned off. "

Online Trading: Trade your customised cars online.

Real World Mods: If you can buy it in Forza Motorsport then you can buy it in real life.

Engine Swaps: Ability to swap engines beetween cars only if it conforms to real life situations.

Dual Arm Suspension: This means your car wheels can tilt slightly as well as go up and down. An important factor for cornering.

Air Physics System: The physics model calculates drag as well as lift cause by air going under the car.

Drivatar: Learning AI that mimics your driving style for use as team driving or to race against others in your absence.

Tire Physics: "We received confidential real-world tire data from engineers at Toyo tires to help us develop and tune our tire physics. We spent over a month developing the tire physics and two months tuning the tire compounds and tire types. "

Persistent environmental damage: paint etchings on guardrails, tread marks on the pavement, all remain there until the end of the race.

[Source]

Any GT fans willing to put a list of GT4 'Firsts' since the way I see it GT4 is a rehash of GT3 with pretty graphics.....

The same can be said for GT when the series for started. It had a whole lot of firsts.

Not taking anything away from Forza, but of course it's going to seem like it's much newer since there's really nothing to compare it to on the XBox.

Forza fanboys can be so funny.

 

[Front]

The same can be said for GT when the series for started. It had a whole lot of firsts.

Not taking anything away from Forza, but of course it's going to seem like it's much newer since there's really nothing to compare it to on the XBox.

Forza fanboys can be so funny.

So you can't name any firsts in GT4 except the pretty graphics ?

Nothing against GT4 it just seems like there not interested in pushing the envelope, and are content with a pretty update. Which is fair enough..

It's funny when Fanboys get on the defensive.... I guess I must be a Fanboy for pointing out Good points in Forza Motorsport... eh.. Swift..

 

[Swift]

So you can't name any firsts in GT4 except the pretty graphics ?

Nothing against GT4 it just seems like there not interested in pushing the envelope, and are content with a pretty update. Which is fair enough..

.

uh, 50 tracks and 700+ cars isn't pushing anything? PHotomode is a first. Along with Bspec. I think it's stupid that you get more money for driving with or without aids on. That's NOT realistic. In a race, if a driver decides he doesn't want to use ABS and wins against a driver that does, he doesn't get an adjusted reward does he?

I mentioned that because you said it was a list of "Console Simulation Racing 'Firsts'" That is not simulating real life.

It's funny when Fanboys get on the defensive.... I guess I must be a Fanboy for pointing out Good points in Forza Motorsport... eh.. Swift.

Actually no. What makes you fanboyish is your one sided aproach to the situation. Forza might turn out to be an incredible, mind blowing genre altering title. But we don't have any track record for that game. At the very least, GT4 has been released in Japan thereby giving proponants of GT4 something to gauge it buy until it comes out in the USA.

BTW, it's also very obvious you haven't read the last 5 pages of this thread because you would've seen my stance on the debate back there.

 

[Front]

uh, 50 tracks and 700+ cars isn't pushing anything? PHotomode is a first. Along with Bspec. I think it's stupid that you get more money for driving with or without aids on. That's NOT realistic. In a race, if a driver decides he doesn't want to use ABS and wins against a driver that does, he doesn't get an adjusted reward does he?

I mentioned that because you said it was a list of "Console Simulation Racing 'Firsts'" That is not simulating real life.

700+ Cars and 50+ cars is hardly pushing anything except for those tired 3D modellers and I suspect most of these models have been imported from GT3..

Photomode confirms my 'pretty update' yes Photomode is alright but it's hardly anything new either... Get a picture from a game and import into Photoshop and you will get far better results than Photomode.

B-Spec mode is pretty boring and nothing spectacular.

 

[Swift]

700+ Cars and 50+ cars is hardly pushing anything except for those tired 3D modellers and I suspect most of these models have been imported from GT3..

Photomode confirms my 'pretty update' yes Photomode is alright but it's hardly anything new either... Get a picture from a game and import into Photoshop and you will get far better results than Photomode.

B-Spec mode is pretty boring and nothing spectacular.

YOu said new. You didn't say fun and glorious. You said new or a first. Both photomode and Bspec are firsts. So, don't contradict yourself.

No comment about what I think on the reward system in Forza?



The funny part is, you didn't even notice the ling about how Forza might be great.

 

[Front]

uh, 50 tracks and 700+ cars isn't pushing anything? PHotomode is a first. Along with Bspec. I think it's stupid that you get more money for driving with or without aids on. That's NOT realistic. In a race, if a driver decides he doesn't want to use ABS and wins against a driver that does, he doesn't get an adjusted reward does he?

The reward system promotes driving with manual and without assists and to my knowledge no other game has done this...

I personally think this is indeed a great thing how many people have played through GT on automatic with assists, quite a few I'd imagine..

Anyway I think it's good to promote Manual in a simulation and racing without assists. Also the reward system rewards good drivers and punishes bad drivers so yeah I could hardly care if it was realistic, it's a game and it promotes the good things about driving so +1 point Forza Motorsport.

YOu said new. You didn't say fun and glorious. You said new or a first. Both photomode and Bspec are firsts. So, don't contradict yourself.

So the only 2 things GT4 has intoduced to the series is Photomode and B-Spec Mode... Fair enough.

The funny part is, you didn't even notice the ling about how Forza might be great.

I have no idea what you mean.... Forza might be great and all indications are pointing to a must have title...

And another Must have title is good because there are so few of them especially when it come's to racing simulations...

 

[Swift]

The reward system promotes driving with manual and without assists and to my knowledge no other game has done this...

I personally think this is indeed a great thing how many people have played through GT on automatic with assists, quite a few I'd imagine..

Anyway I think it's good to promote Manual in a simulation and racing without assists. Also the reward system rewards good drivers and punishes bad drivers so yeah I could hardly care if it was realistic, it's a game and it promotes the good things about driving so +1 point Forza Motorsport.



So the only 2 things GT4 has intoduced to the series is Photomode and B-Spec Mode... Fair enough.

Ah, man. This is good stuff.. So, you don't care that it's a simulation or not. Hmm...As far as the people that go through GT with automatic and assists. Almost the entire racing world uses assists of some time. But, yeah, there are a lot of people that wouldn't even think about driving a manual in GT.

How does forza punish bad drivers?

 

[Front]

Ah, man. This is good stuff.. So, you don't care that it's a simulation or not. Hmm...As far as the people that go through GT with automatic and assists. Almost the entire racing world uses assists of some time. But, yeah, there are a lot of people that wouldn't even think about driving a manual in GT.

How does forza punish bad drivers?

In Forza Motorsport you get punished for cutting corners and crashing your way round the course.... Myself personally would prefer a flag system but I'll have to wait a while..

 

[Swift]

In Forza Motorsport you get punished for cutting corners and crashing your way round the course.... Myself personally would prefer a flag system but I'll have to wait a while..

Interesting. Yeah, I think a flag system would be better. But that actually does make good sense. At least during the sanctioned races. But then the problem comes in, "what if someone knocks me off the road?" etc etc.

 

[Symtex]

Interesting. Yeah, I think a flag system would be better. But that actually does make good sense. At least during the sanctioned races. But then the problem comes in, "what if someone knocks me off the road?" etc etc.

Don't you think that someone that finish a race with a higher level of difficulty should be rewarded ?

I just don't get the logic of GT fans. I really don't.

 

[tha_con]

Forza Console Simulation Racing 'Firsts'

Risk-based reward system: "You can win more money by racing with some of the game assists turned off. For example, you will earn more money for winning a race using a manual transmission than you will if you race with an automatic. The same goes for racing with the damage system turned off, or by racing with the assists (such as ABS brakes) turned off. "

Online Trading: Trade your customised cars online.

Real World Mods: If you can buy it in Forza Motorsport then you can buy it in real life.

Engine Swaps: Ability to swap engines beetween cars only if it conforms to real life situations.

Dual Arm Suspension: This means your car wheels can tilt slightly as well as go up and down. An important factor for cornering.

Air Physics System: The physics model calculates drag as well as lift cause by air going under the car.

Drivatar: Learning AI that mimics your driving style for use as team driving or to race against others in your absence.

Tire Physics: "We received confidential real-world tire data from engineers at Toyo tires to help us develop and tune our tire physics. We spent over a month developing the tire physics and two months tuning the tire compounds and tire types. "

Persistent environmental damage: paint etchings on guardrails, tread marks on the pavement, all remain there until the end of the race.

[Source]

Any GT fans willing to put a list of GT4 'Firsts' since the way I see it GT4 is a rehash of GT3 with pretty graphics.....

Don't even get me started on some of these young man...

Just leave it at they are both racing games...comparing is redundant, and half of the things on that list are unimpressive, or have been seen before and are not "firsts".

Real World Mods are the funniest..."If you can buy it in FORZA you can buy it in REAL LIFE..."

Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Anyway, both will be great, but being a child about the situation and constantly challenging someones intelligence, as well as preference with videogames, is very unproductive. Live and learn.

 

[Front]

Don't even get me started on some of these young man...

Just leave it at they are both racing games...comparing is redundant, and half of the things on that list are unimpressive, or have been seen before and are not "firsts".

Real World Mods are the funniest..."If you can buy it in FORZA you can buy it in REAL LIFE..."

Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Anyway, both will be great, but being a child about the situation and constantly challenging someones intelligence, as well as preference with videogames, is very unproductive. Live and learn.

So you agree with my list Forza Motorsport was first with these 'features'

I'm simply pointing out that GT4 has done very little to progress from GT3 which is cool... The better graphics thing and the crap load of cars appeals to people..

I think it's cool that Forza Motorsport has been adding new features that no one has done before. But I suppose stating that in a GT Forum is a big no-no. Because I'd feel bitter because PD refuse to add the simplist things the fans beg for skidmarks and reverse lights spring to mind

I find it childish you try and attack me for stating my opinion, but again I could hardly care...

 

[Div is back]

Why change a winning success? Evolution is O.K. but you don't need a lot more to satisfy me, 700 cars, 50 tracks, I cant ask for more.

As far as Forza is concerned, it has no reputation to live up to, it can mess up as much as It would want it won't matter, it doesn't have a fanbase, what you may call Fanboy.

In a way, its us that stop the game from evoluating more, evolution brings good and bad.

 

[MailMan]

So you agree with my list Forza Motorsport was first with these 'features'

I'm simply pointing out that GT4 has done very little to progress from GT3 which is cool... The better graphics thing and the crap load of cars appeals to people..

I think it's cool that Forza Motorsport has been adding new features that no one has done before. But I suppose stating that in a GT Forum is a big no-no. Because I'd feel bitter because PD refuse to add the simplist things the fans beg for skidmarks and reverse lights spring to mind

I find it childish you try and attack me for stating my opinion, but again I could hardly care...

Errr, I could be completely blind, but I think tha_con stated: "or have been seen before and are not "firsts"."

Anyway, sure it sounds promising! It would be no less than awesome if all of these things are as good as they sound, frankly 95% of the time they are not. Game-developers try to impress everyone with new features and hundreds of modding abilities. For example NFS:U, there were litterally tens of thousands of different cars possible. Sure if you count each possible color as completely different car. Mind the pretty bad example, but you should get the idea and my english is not as fluant as I wish it was

Some of the features you name probably sound better than they are:
Air Physics System: The physics model calculates drag as well as lift cause by air going under the car.

If they code a simple line stating: Car to ground level = 10cm, so the value used to calculate drag will be increased by a percentage of 2. If the Car to ground level = 8cm, the drag value will be increased by 1.5%
You get the picture. Don't be fooled by how great everything sounds.

Tire Physics: "We received confidential real-world tire data from engineers at Toyo tires to help us develop and tune our tire physics. We spent over a month developing the tire physics and two months tuning the tire compounds and tire types. "

I believe PD said they recorded sounds of all cars! Do I need to explain anything more considering the average opinion on car sounds in GT4

Oh and I wish to state, I don't own GT4 nor have I played it, same goes for Forza. I try to be objective and have no personal dislike to you or anyone on this forum, so please don't see this as fanboyish.

 

[dhwebb]

Forza Console Simulation Racing 'Firsts'
Online Trading: Trade your customised cars online.

Sega GT online had car trading via xbox live. This isn't a first for forza.

Also, why come to a GT Fansite and try ripping on the game. Maybe your bravery level is high anonymously on the internet, but in real life(yeah, there's such a thing) you are scared of your own shadow and this is how you get your kicks is trying to piss people off here. Oh well, to each his own.

 

[Front]

Errr, I could be completely blind, but I think tha_con stated: "or have been seen before and are not "firsts"."

As far as i'm aware they are firsts so if i'm wrong please let me know. or state a title that done it first.

Everything else you say I agree with 👍

Only time will tell if it lives upto the hype, I seriously hope so because there are very few Racing simulations out there that has the depth of Gran Turismo.

Sega GT online had car trading via xbox live. This isn't a first for forza.

Also, why come to a GT Fansite and try ripping on the game. Maybe your bravery level is high anonymously on the internet, but in real life(yeah, there's such a thing) you are scared of your own shadow and this is how you get your kicks is trying to piss people off here. Oh well, to each his own.

Can you trade your "customised" cars with Sega GT...

The rest of your post does not even warrent a reply lol

 

[Swift]

Don't you think that someone that finish a race with a higher level of difficulty should be rewarded ?

I just don't get the logic of GT fans. I really don't.

That's an arcade type of feature. Like gettin boost for sliding in NFS:U2. It's not helping the driving aspect or in any way realistic. That's all I'm saying.

Driving in GT3 with the steering assist off is HARD. I'm mean very difficult. To the point where it's not fun for me anymore. So yeah, I have the steering assist on. Does that mean I should be automatically penalized, even if my times are faster then a driver not using aids? It just seems like a somewhat unfair feature to me. Now, if it can be turned on and off, then that makes all the difference in the world.