GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]

[NoBoDy_X]

I still don't see what these "framerate" issue's are? I really can't tell what you're talking about

i myself wondered about such, until I played it on my father's old box, either it's a disc issue, or box issue, as my xbox doesn't have any framrate issues... play on a friend's box and you might see it... kinda freaked out first time i saw it... but yeah, it's not a big deal at all as it will be eliminated completely in final build IMO

 

[F1GTR]

And how do you know it would be eliminated from the final build?

 

[code_kev]

Well most high profile games do get sorted before release, unless they are killzone.

 

[F1GTR]

It just seems impossible with the amount of detail they put into everything.And did Killzone have a choppy framerate or something?

 

[code_kev]

It just seems impossible with the amount of detail they put into everything

umm why? It's an xbox, not a megadrive. Look at RSC2.

 

[F1GTR]

Well there's 3d rims,damage,all those shadows,the physics,the cars,AI,interiors,tyre heat,tracks,spectators and alot of other visual stuff I can't remember.

 

[code_kev]

Put it like this, if a PS2 can do Gt4 at 60, I'm sure an xbox can do forza at 30.

 

[Div is back]

Put it like this, if a PS2 can do Gt4 at 60, I'm sure an xbox can do forza at 30.

Why can't the Xbox run Forza at 60fps?

It would be one of the best games out there, even with 30fps it is still very good, so why?

 

[Swift]

Why can't the Xbox run Forza at 60fps?

It would be one of the best games out there, even with 30fps it is still very good, so why?

Someone answered this about 100 pages ago or so. But it has to do with the fact that Forza renders the interiors of all the cars, the damage, rubber on teh road, etc. So it's doing a lot more then GT4 does and that taxes the machine to the point where they can't do 60fps. Oh well, Forza should still be a good game.

 

[GuyNamedJohn]

It is interesting to note that ever since the jump onto PS2, Polyphony Digital has opted for smoothness and uber framerates *over* that kind of stuff.

See personally I don't give a rat's ass about damage. I want to ogle at my cars in all their shiny beauty; it's the design of the some of the world's finest scuptures in automobilia that I take pleasure in viewing. I don't want to see a frickin' Ferrari Enzo that's been pummelled into a beater.

As such, it was a huge disappointment to learn that the Forza team decided to go the identical route of PGR2 and produce another game with lackluster framerate.

Another point of explanation for Driftster--a 30 fps is most apparent when the camera/player's pov must pan across scenery. Or say, if you lose control and spin around 180° or something. 30 fps is glaring at these times; where as in Gran Turismo, 60 fps means that all action onscreen is smooth and closer to real life.

Even when it's nailed solid, half the frames is still inferior to the double the frames. Real life doesn't get jerky in the turns.

 

[code_kev]

Real life doesn't suffer from bad textures, low poly scenery, low detail rear view mirrors or crap sounds either....

 

[vilante]

Don't they call someone that prefers to loook at their cars rather than drive them (I mean realy drive them, not tootle around town) a hairdresser?

JP

 

[Driftster]

It must be an X box issue, because I played the Forza demo on a friends series I X box and it did get choppy you're right. But apparently that's not a gaming problem that's a Driver problem. If you have an updated box you're pretty damn safe, i've yet to see ANY choppyness or skippin frames in all the time i've played forza, however I did get choppiness in GT3 on my Series I Ps2 (Before it crapped out on me) so yeah.
Real life doesn't have choppy corners, unless you blink and honestly at 300+ mph like that video of the Dauer your vision in REAL LIFE would hardly be that clear and crisp, so come on.

Not to mention it doing 300mph in a rate of acceleration that would rival a top fuel dragster, but that's besides the point.
I see 8000HP LM cars all the time. but if that car didn't have 8000HP then I doubt it would have been possible considering it probably weights about the same as a drag car.

 

[discopotato]

hmmmm, interestingly enough, gamespot has GTR for xbox coming out the exact same day as Forza, hmmmmm. GTR for Xbox

Real life doesn't suffer from bad textures, low poly scenery, low detail rear view mirrors or crap sounds either....

 

[GuyNamedJohn]

LOL vilante and code_kev

Re., GTR. Taken from dreamstation.cc

The following car models are included
* Ferrari 550 Maranello
* Ferrari 575 GTC
* Ferrari 360 Modena
* Chrysler Viper GTS-R
* Lister Storm
* Lamborghini Diablo GT-R
* Lamborghini Murciélago R-GT
* Saleen S7-R
* Mosler MT900
* Chevrolet Corvette C5-R
* Porsche 993 GT2
* Porsche 996 Turbo
* Porsche 996 GT3-RS
* Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
* Seat Toledo
* Morgan Aero 8
* BMW Z3 M
* Lotus Elise
* Vertigo Streiff

The following official tracks are included.
* Barcelona
* Magny-Cours
* Enna-Pergusa
* Brno
* Donington
* FIA GT Spa 24H
* Anderstorp
* Oschersleben
* Estoril
* Monza

The press hype still claims this game will feature 56 cars on track at once. I doubt like hell the Xbox will have that.

Also, this is year-old news. For all we know GTR_Xbox could well be vaporware, i've not heard anything new about it, let alone a credible release date.

Anybody know?

 

[code_kev]

LOL vilante and code_kev

Umm I never said the xbox one would, I said the pc one would. I know nothing about the xbox one, and have never claimed too.

 

[GuyNamedJohn]

You misunderstand. I was acknowledging what you said about GT's low polygons and and retched rear-view morrors. I was giving you and vilante a 👍.




Anyways this is it! We're nearly at 5,000 posts, omg!

 

[code_kev]

Ahhh okies

 

[91fairladyz]

GTR would rock rock on Xbox. Xbox live! would a perfect match for this game. Can you imagine trying to run a 24 hour race on live? Crazy!

 

[Duke]

I played Forza at Toys R Us for about 15 minutes tonight.

It blew.

I was racing against 4 other LMP cars at Laguna. First off, the track map was horribly inaccurate. Second off, the car had no feeling of suspension movement at all and it steered like a cheap R/C car - touch-tone driving. Even with squeezing the gas and brake triggers and using the analog stick for steering, it felt like driving on a PC sim from about 1996 using the keyboard.

The graphics were good enough, and smooth, but I can't say that they had anything special over GT4. And the driving was much worse during my sample.

 

[Div is back]

I tried it too at a demo stand at future shop, Duke sums it up.

By the way, 5000th posts of this never ending thread.

 

[GuyNamedJohn]

I played Forza at Toys R Us for about 15 minutes tonight.

It blew.

I was racing against 4 other LMP cars at Laguna. First off, the track map was horribly inaccurate. Second off, the car had no feeling of suspension movement at all and it steered like a cheap R/C car - touch-tone driving. Even with squeezing the gas and brake triggers and using the analog stick for steering, it felt like driving on a PC sim from about 1996 using the keyboard.

The graphics were good enough, and smooth, but I can't say that they had anything special over GT4. And the driving was much worse during my sample.

Greetings Duke,

Oh, it's not that bad. Once you've had the opportunity to spend a more reasonable amount of seat time with it, only then can one really see its strengths and discern its depths. Also, weeks of GT4 conditioning can really muck up your assessment of something a little different.

Still though, great minds think alike, as I myself said in this very thread just last week:

I went ahead and took a '99 Toyota GT1 and a 2004 Acura NSX out on Laguna Seca in both games. Identical track, identical makes & models. I have my Xbox & PS2 both connected, and so was able to switch back and forth. Something I hadn't noticed before is the feel of the cars (i.e., what all four tires are doing at any given time on the pavement) seemed more precise and more clear in GT4. This is about *the feel* of your vehicle--something Gran Turismo has down so pat.

So Forza does have a mighty foe in GT4. But I'm telling you now, once the final build is released, I think you'll be singing a different tune. Already, you *immediately* can feel whether the car you're in is a 4WD, FR, FF, MR, or RR.

Didn't know that about the Laguna Seca inaccuracies, though.

 

[McLaren]

I played Forza at Toys R Us for about 15 minutes tonight.

It blew.

I was racing against 4 other LMP cars at Laguna. First off, the track map was horribly inaccurate. Second off, the car had no feeling of suspension movement at all and it steered like a cheap R/C car - touch-tone driving. Even with squeezing the gas and brake triggers and using the analog stick for steering, it felt like driving on a PC sim from about 1996 using the keyboard.

The graphics were good enough, and smooth, but I can't say that they had anything special over GT4. And the driving was much worse during my sample.

Duke, no offense, but GT4's Laguna Seca is badly inaccurate as well.
GT4 features grass everywhere. There is grass, but hardly is it everywhere during the year.

All in all, I think Forza's Laguna is a little bit nicer and accurate than GT4's.

 

[Dave A]

Infact, Forza's rendition of Laguna is far MORE accurate than GT4's. Neither game is perfect and people have to remeber that, but people here (as you woul;d expect at GT planet) tend to highlight Forza's shortcomings and cover over GT's.

 

[kinigitt]

I played Forza at Toys R Us for about 15 minutes tonight.

It blew.

I was racing against 4 other LMP cars at Laguna. First off, the track map was horribly inaccurate. Second off, the car had no feeling of suspension movement at all and it steered like a cheap R/C car - touch-tone driving. Even with squeezing the gas and brake triggers and using the analog stick for steering, it felt like driving on a PC sim from about 1996 using the keyboard.

The graphics were good enough, and smooth, but I can't say that they had anything special over GT4. And the driving was much worse during my sample.

the LMP cars feel ridiculous, but try out the road cars like the 350Z and Evo VIII to get a feel for the physics.

 

[GuyNamedJohn]

Be specific, too. Topography, geometry, lengths of the straights, evelations. Which didn't you like? (Color and placement of grass are quite less significant than the racing area. )

Both teams (MS & Sony) collected an incredible trove of data using some of the best means currently available, including mobile GPS units and countless photos later used for CAD and artistic/visual reference in recreating the tracks.

Remember that the eye and mind play tricks, and that transfer of the real into a digital representation is fraught with subjective interpretation variances. For example, if someone were to map out my neighborhood and reproduce it in a driving game, I'll bet I'd be surprised to find that certain blocks had a certain geometry, et cetera.

My guess is that both these games contain some of the most accurate circuits mile for mile that have ever been done to date.

 

[Dave A]

Forza's layout of Laguna Seca is more accurate than GT4's, simply put. The scenery is closer to how it should be and the track itself is more accurate in terms of the corners and the cambers. PD's main focus in GT4 seems to be getting the Ring as spot on as possible, Laguna Seca though, looks good and it's not drastically wrong, isn't close to the accuracy seen in their rendition of the Ring.

 

[McLaren]

Forza's layout of Laguna Seca is more accurate than GT4's, simply put. The scenery is closer to how it should be and the track itself is more accurate in terms of the corners and the cambers. PD's main focus in GT4 seems to be getting the Ring as spot on as possible, Laguna Seca though, looks good and it's not drastically wrong, isn't close to the accuracy seen in their rendition of the Ring.

It does look like the only track PD really want to make perfect is the 'Ring. I hope some more track detailing fits into their plans for GT5.

 

[GuyNamedJohn]

It does look like the only track PD really want to make perfect is the 'Ring. I hope some more track detailing fits into their plans for GT5.

lol.. I'd really like to see what you racing aficionados are going on to dispute the accuracy of circuits that have been painstakingly recreated in GT4, other than having seen them raced on TV or maybe from having rented a few track-days on Laguna Seca & Infineon. I can tell you what the team at Polyphony Digital is going on--hard data. I found the year-old source that I have been trying to quote (which happens to be none other than Motor Trend Magazine ):

"The designers travel around the world collecting the essential data to faithfully reproduce courses and settings. Between 20,000 and 30,000 digital photographs are taken at each facility as the team chronicles every inch to reproduce each tire wall, sign, track wear--even surface friction. Cranes and helicopters are used to offer different vantages, which aid in design and the cinematic game replays. In addition to images, the team conducts a thorough survey with lasers and GPS to chart elevation changes, trace arcs, and record precise linear measurements. Each building, including windows and doors, is measured to ensure true scale reproduction."

The author notes that in total, the team devotes around six months to reproduce each one of the tracks in GT4.

Tell you what, I'll give you Laguna Seca. But you fellas are also second-guessing the accuracy of racing circuits from half-way around world such as Suzuka Circuit and Fuji Speedway in Japan. And the Twin Ring Motegi Road Course, also in Japan, where these guys took more than 150 cars in the Motor Trend article to test them on.

It's a hugely accomplished game, and I don't think Nurburgring and Le Sarthe are the only two accurate circuits in there.

Just some 'fyi'.

 

[AZ_Sidewinder]

lol.. I'd really like to see what you racing aficionados are going on to dispute the accuracy of circuits that have been painstakingly recreated in GT4, other than having seen them raced on TV or maybe from having rented a few track-days on Laguna Seca & Infineon. I can tell you what the team at Polyphony Digital is going on--hard data. I found the year-old source that I have been trying to quote (which happens to be none other than Motor Trend Magazine ):

"The designers travel around the world collecting the essential data to faithfully reproduce courses and settings. Between 20,000 and 30,000 digital photographs are taken at each facility as the team chronicles every inch to reproduce each tire wall, sign, track wear--even surface friction. Cranes and helicopters are used to offer different vantages, which aid in design and the cinematic game replays. In addition to images, the team conducts a thorough survey with lasers and GPS to chart elevation changes, trace arcs, and record precise linear measurements. Each building, including windows and doors, is measured to ensure true scale reproduction."

The author notes that in total, the team devotes around six months to reproduce each one of the tracks in GT4.

Tell you what, I'll give you Laguna Seca. But you fellas are also second-guessing the accuracy of racing circuits from half-way around world such as Suzuka Circuit and Fuji Speedway in Japan. And the Twin Ring Motegi Road Course, also in Japan, where these guys took more than 150 cars in the Motor Trend article to test them on.

It's a hugely accomplished game, and I don't think Nurburgring and Le Sarthe are the only two accurate circuits in there.

Just some 'fyi'.

they've done that with every racing game in the modern era basically. it doesn't necessarily mean the track is super accurate. look at toca 2s bathurst. look at gt3s laguna. not that accurate.