GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]

[McLaren]

You really need to go see someone about your memory.

I cleay said "after all this is my own opinion" "Thats your opinion, im not going to debate that with you".

Since you back down from everything I say, and can't understand a word I type It's pointless to even respond to you.

Have a good night.

Whatever, all I'm saying is that Forza is nowhere near an ultimate sim.

And who cares if PC games have been brought in this thread? They've been brought in here many many times to teach people that make stupid posts saying Forza or GT4 is best sim ever.

I've been in this thread and posted in much longer than you. You might want to go through it and see how many times a PC game has been mentioned here. Hell, this was in the GT4 forum.

 

[Guru_Nissan]

okay, it wouldnt matter if he belongs in pc forum, because he came here to give an opinion thats what forums are all about, i could be from the gamecube forum(if there was one in example, i actually dont like kiddie games) for what i care and give an opinion thats in the same genre.

I know yall going to flame me

 

[aoe_viruz]

Whatever, all I'm saying is that Forza is nowhere near an ultimate sim.

And who cares if PC games have been brought in this thread? They've been brought in here many many times to teach people that make stupid posts saying Forza or GT4 is best sim ever.

I've been in this thread and posted in much longer than you. You might want to go through it and see how many times a PC game has been mentioned here. Hell, this was in the GT4 forum.

hmmm...I don't know where to start. I'm baffeled that you do not realize that I'm comparing two CONSOLE games. When I say "GT4: ULTIMATE DRIVING SIM" am I not clearly stating that it is the ultimate driving sim for the PS2? Like wise for the Xbox with the "FORZA: ULTIMATE RACING SIM" comment? That's why PC games have no place in a response to my original statement.

And once again the statement about the games being the ultimate are my OPINION and have nothing to do with what my original statement was about.

 

[code_kev]

"OMG OM GOMGOMGO YOUR TALKING ABOUT PC GANMEZ ON TEH PS2 FORUM!!11!!!"

Shut the hell up. It's a forum, discussions change and twist depending on the topic. If your stupid enough not to realise this, I suggest not using forums.

Forza or Gt4 (what kind of sim turns tyre wear on SOMETIMES) the ultimate sim? Don't make me laugh. They are good, yes, but go play GTR or GPL.

Also if you call something the "ultimate" in a genre, you tend to mean the ultimate of that genre on ALL systems, ie "half life 2 is the ultimate FPS". If you mean for that machine alone, say so, ie, "Gt4 is the best PS2 racing game".

Btw if Gt4 is not a racing sim, why is it on race tracks? Gt4 is a driving AND racing sim as much as any other racing sim. Saying it's a driving sim is a cop out, a lame excuse for the terrible AI etc, games don't just change genre because of a poor element.

i could be from the gamecube forum(if there was one in example, i actually dont like kiddie games)

Resident Evil 4. Enough said me thinks. But your right, forums are about opinions etc.


Sigh it's as if I keep saying the same crap over and over, and I'm still sure that GT4 doesn't have true tyre heat.

 

[aoe_viruz]

"OMG OM GOMGOMGO YOUR TALKING ABOUT PC GANMEZ ON TEH PS2 FORUM!!11!!!"

Shut the hell up. It's a forum, discussions change and twist depending on the topic. If your stupid enough not to realise this, I suggest not using forums.

Forza or Gt4 (what kind of sim turns tyre wear on SOMETIMES) the ultimate sim? Don't make me laugh. They are good, yes, but go play GTR or GPL.

Also if you call something the "ultimate" in a genre, you tend to mean the ultimate of that genre on ALL systems, ie "half life 2 is the ultimate FPS". If you mean for that machine alone, say so, ie, "Gt4 is the best PS2 racing game".

Btw if Gt4 is not a racing sim, why is it on race tracks? Gt4 is a driving AND racing sim as much as any other racing sim. Saying it's a driving sim is a cop out, a lame excuse for the terrible AI etc, games don't just change genre because of a poor element.

Did the way I posted my comments in anyway say I wanted you guys to lash out at me and say I'm stupid? I posted my original messge to get constructive and intelligent opinions on the subject I was putting fourth.

Do you think that im that ignorant that I don't know what GTR, GPL, and LFS are? I play all of those and by far they are the Ultimate sims on a PC.

I understand the topics will change and that would happen. When I said on the first response to McLaren F1GTR that this is a console game comparison he continued to point out that GTR is the ULTIMATE! Why would I care if a PC game is the ultimate compared to a console game? If I didn't CLEARLY specifiy that I was talking about CONSOLES only then I apologize.

Everyone so far thats responded to this has responed as though there being attacked. Especially Code_kev with your "shut the hell up" remark. You are obvioulsy more intelligent than that so why not post something constructive about the subject at hand.

 

[kinigitt]

Did the way I posted my comments in anyway say I wanted you guys to lash out at me and say I'm stupid? I posted my original messge to get constructive and intelligent opinions on the subject I was putting fourth.

Do you think that im that ignorant that I don't know what GTR, GPL, and LFS are? I play all of those and by far they are the Ultimate sims on a PC.

I understand the topics will change and that would happen. When I said on the first response to McLaren F1GTR that this is a console game comparison he continued to point out that GTR is the ULTIMATE! Why would I care if a PC game is the ultimate compared to a console game? If I didn't CLEARLY specifiy that I was talking about CONSOLES only then I apologize.

Everyone so far thats responded to this has responed as though there being attacked. Especially Code_kev with your "shut the hell up" remark. You are obvioulsy more intelligent than that so why not post something constructive about the subject at hand.

dont mind code, he loves you.

I get what you were trying to say. Nice try, but you'll have to be more assertive and jerkoffish to get through.

 

[F1GTR]

GT4 is not a driving sim it's a racing sim.If GT4 was a driving sim we'd have an 24hr traffic jam as an endurance race

 

[McLaren]

Did the way I posted my comments in anyway say I wanted you guys to lash out at me and say I'm stupid? I posted my original messge to get constructive and intelligent opinions on the subject I was putting fourth.

Do you think that im that ignorant that I don't know what GTR, GPL, and LFS are? I play all of those and by far they are the Ultimate sims on a PC.

I understand the topics will change and that would happen. When I said on the first response to McLaren F1GTR that this is a console game comparison he continued to point out that GTR is the ULTIMATE! Why would I care if a PC game is the ultimate compared to a console game? If I didn't CLEARLY specifiy that I was talking about CONSOLES only then I apologize.

Everyone so far thats responded to this has responed as though there being attacked. Especially Code_kev with your "shut the hell up" remark. You are obvioulsy more intelligent than that so why not post something constructive about the subject at hand.

I only said b/c you aid GT4 and Forza were ultimate sims. And I told you go try to some other games.

Your ignnorant to the fact that you stated both games were ultimate sims. When saying stuff like this, people assume you are talking in general.

Neither game is an ultimate sim as you said. They are ultimate sims on their consoles, b/c for Xbox, Forza is pretty much the newest and more diversed sim, and GT4 is the best selling.

 

[kinigitt]

I only said b/c you aid GT4 and Forza were ultimate sims. And I told you go try to some other games.

Your ignnorant to the fact that you stated both games were ultimate sims. When saying stuff like this, people assume you are talking in general.

Neither game is an ultimate sim as you said. They are ultimate sims on their consoles, b/c for Xbox, Forza is pretty much the newest and more diversed sim, and GT4 is the best selling.

now you're just being silly. he made it clear he was talking strictly about console games.

stop being thick.

 

[F1GTR]

Moving on...

 

[Neutralgamer01]

I'm still sure that GT4 doesn't have true tyre heat.

The Tyre Heat does exist. I agree though, its not exactly an excellent model but it does show the basics of tyre heat and change in grip as the tyres warm up from blue (cold), to green (warm), the lap times do improve. Im not sure at what point the tyres start to deteriorate, i would imagine green is optimum and then perfomance deteriorates through to red.

 

[aoe_viruz]

now you're just being silly. he made it clear he was talking strictly about console games.

stop being thick.

Thank you. I'm done. Move on to another subject.

 

[Neutralgamer01]

We are on a new subject, tyres and the fact that they are warmed up between blue and green.

 

[Gabkicks]

if tire heat exists... why did they leave out tire cooling? if you stand still shouldnt the tires cool off?

 

[Neutralgamer01]

if tire heat exists... why did they leave out tire cooling? if you stand still shouldnt the tires cool off?

Well like i say, not the best Tyre model ever, but it does show the basic warming and improvment in grip.

Anyway who stands still in motorsport??

 

[Lancerevo911]

i dont see any other way to explain better lap times on green tyres. any ideas??

 

[Neutralgamer01]

Theres no explaining needed my friend, it exists. In my Nissan R92CP Race Car, on the first lap on a track/just after pitstop with new tyres, its braking capabilities are poor and the car will not grip sufficiently. When the tyres warmup to green i can break much later and turn in later and the car sticks to the road much better. The laptimes obviously show this too.

 

[Lancerevo911]

i agree so why are we having this arguement

 

[Neutralgamer01]

so wot if there have been more gt games? gt4 is still better, so are you saying we shoud buy forza because we feel sorry for it there only being one??

this argument is rubbish and is by no means an excuse for making a worse game than gt3/4, a game on a aging platform.
and..
Q. would gt be better on an xbox? A. no.

Said by Lancerevo911, i agree, i agree 👍 👍

Maybe not with the bit about the Xbox, after all, it has more power...

 

[Lancerevo911]

i based that xbox thing on 1. colours on xbox games are dull an crap (dont know why) 2. crap controller IMO 3.xbox hasnt got a ff wheel. and a lack of usb limits periphirals, i cud go on...

 

[Neutralgamer01]

crap controller IMO

In your opinion, , and in many other people's opinion aswell. Xbox Fanboy's can argue all they want but, being as good a controller as the 'S' is, the Dualshock2 is DEFFIANATLY better than it. (imagine changin gear in manual with the xbox pad, it needs 2 triggers realli)

 

[Lancerevo911]

In your opinion, , and in many other people's opinion aswell. Xbox Fanboy's can argue all they want but, being as good a controller as the 'S' is, the Dualshock2 is DEFFIANATLY better than it. (imagine changin gear in manual with the xbox pad, it needs 2 triggers realli)

glad someone agrees

 

[Driftster]

I'm sorry but as of now GT4 is not the ultimate driving SIM, because GT falls closer towards the side of "arcade" than it does simulation.

A Simulation is supposed to be realistic. That is why Toca is a good Simulator, that is why 90% of the rally games out there are Sims, that is why F355 is a amazing Sim.
Gran turismo gives you the ability to do things that don't reflect the cars real life counterparts in any way at all, how is that a Simulator? Putting a turbocharger on a GT40 and going 190 mph isn't Simulating anything. Taking a modified car and blasting around the nurburgring in a time that would make any real time look like a retard was driving is not simulating anything. GT4 is based on equations and computations, not simulations. Do you honestly think changing the oil on a new Ford GT will give you 30HP? Come on now, seriously. Do you think adjusting the suspension on a silverado and changing the tires and power would make it a good drifting vehicle IRL? Nope. Oh and by the way
Someone show me a transmission in real life that can add 1/100th of a tooth to the gear. Wait, there isn't one. Fact is it might be a "decent" game. But it's not that closely related to ANY other game that calls itself a Sim.
Microsoft Flight Simulator doesn't let you add afterburners to 747's.
Motor GP2 doesn't let you put turbochargers and nitrous on GSX-R1000's.
Ferrari F355 doesn't let you bolt on 600HP to a car then go race other stock cars in that class.
THOSE are sim's.
Gran Turismo is a "arcade game" that crosses the line from time to time

 

[Div is back]

I'm sorry but as of now GT4 is not the ultimate driving SIM, because GT falls closer towards the side of "arcade" than it does simulation.

A Simulation is supposed to be realistic. That is why Toca is a good Simulator, that is why 90% of the rally games out there are Sims, that is why F355 is a amazing Sim.
Gran turismo gives you the ability to do things that don't reflect the cars real life counterparts in any way at all, how is that a Simulator? Putting a turbocharger on a GT40 and going 190 mph isn't Simulating anything. Taking a modified car and blasting around the nurburgring in a time that would make any real time look like a retard was driving is not simulating anything. GT4 is based on equations and computations, not simulations. Do you honestly think changing the oil on a new Ford GT will give you 30HP? Come on now, seriously. Do you think adjusting the suspension on a silverado and changing the tires and power would make it a good drifting vehicle IRL? Nope. Oh and by the way
Someone show me a transmission in real life that can add 1/100th of a tooth to the gear. Wait, there isn't one. Fact is it might be a "decent" game. But it's not that closely related to ANY other game that calls itself a Sim.
Microsoft Flight Simulator doesn't let you add afterburners to 747's.
Motor GP2 doesn't let you put turbochargers and nitrous on GSX-R1000's.
Ferrari F355 doesn't let you bolt on 600HP to a car then go race other stock cars in that class.
THOSE are sim's.
Gran Turismo is a "arcade game" that crosses the line from time to time

So what about Forza?

 

[Driftster]

So what about Forza?

Where does Forza's title,motto,catchline or anything for that matter say "It's the Best SIM in the world"

Second. They limit modifcations to cars, which is alot more realistic than GT4's system. yeah in GT4 you can't bolt on parts to F1 cars, but that's one of the few restrictions there are. Do you HONESTLY believe in a yellow bird there is THAT much room for improvement? I personally havn't tuned one, or driven one, or SEEN one for that matter. But from what I do know about it it was a beast of a car so getting 1340123498023871HP(exageration) out of it doesn't seem very realistic. However on Forza's side, it's not going to allow you to bolt on every part on to a F50. It's not going to let you do certain things to certain cars that just don't fit in with the real life counterparts. Don't get me wrong i'm sure somewhere in the world someone has taken a DB9 and put a blower on it or something outrageous, but come on now. a 1100HP ZZII just doesn't make sense.

 

[Driftster]

As for the controller issue. Well they're both will have FF wheels, and from what I've read having it on 900 degrees doesn't add that much to the gaming factor of it, other than letting you make smaller adjustions at high speed, but wait if PD did the physics and coding right, that would make some cars WORSE off with 900 degree steering considering they might have variable steering.

Second playing with the triggers being gear up and gear down isn't difficult, and it's alot better feeling than having those 4 mosquito bite-esque buttons, but I guess you have to play Moto GP to appreciate that.

 

[Div is back]

Where does Forza's title,motto,catchline or anything for that matter say "It's the Best SIM in the world"

Second. They limit modifcations to cars, which is alot more realistic than GT4's system. yeah in GT4 you can't bolt on parts to F1 cars, but that's one of the few restrictions there are. Do you HONESTLY believe in a yellow bird there is THAT much room for improvement? I personally havn't tuned one, or driven one, or SEEN one for that matter. But from what I do know about it it was a beast of a car so getting 1340123498023871HP(exageration) out of it doesn't seem very realistic. However on Forza's side, it's not going to allow you to bolt on every part on to a F50. It's not going to let you do certain things to certain cars that just don't fit in with the real life counterparts. Don't get me wrong i'm sure somewhere in the world someone has taken a DB9 and put a blower on it or something outrageous, but come on now. a 1100HP ZZII just doesn't make sense.

It has been said somewhere that GT4 was the DRIVING simulator and forza the RACING simulator, what are your thoughts on that statement?

 

[McLaren]

Thank you Driftster!

That's what I was trying to say.

 

[Driftster]

Well GT4 isn't a Driving simulator, i've already established that. Either it's been given the false label of a Simulator OR it's strayed from what the idea of a Simulator really is, either way it's not one, be it Driving Racing Watching Running Hopping Shooting Climbing Biking Rodeo Clowning, whatever.

The fact that it doesn't accurately portray the cars in the scenario's to their real life counterparts shows that it isn't a Simulator, it's a Arcade game. The Real Driving Arcade game.
Now if it was reffered to as a Car collectors Sim the story might be different, because yeah it quite accurately depicts what a Car Collector might do. Get cars he/she values and drives them. But as for the Driving aspect of it it's not a Sim

For Forza, so far from what i've seen and played Even in the Demo Good graphix/final build or not you can't infinatly mod your car, from what I understand HP levels arn't calculated from equations, they are based on how much HP you'd get on that car in real life given the modifications. You get penalized for crashing into a wall (your car gets body damage and doesn't handle as well). No your car doesn't explode on impact like a real car would, but then again that WOULD be a cheap way out of messing up your car, if your car isn't in peak condition you COULD in theory slam it into a wall and get a cleaned up one once it "respawned" if it even did that. Second from what the interviews have said with the developers and project leads, it's possible to critically damage your engine durring a race, which may or may not lead to you having to drop out of the race and recieve no points, but that's yet to have proof behind it. Since forza isn't out there's no way to tell how well it follows the guidelines of a "simulator" But in terms of the Demo I think it does a damn good job of it.

To the people who have played a Demo of Forza
Does or doesn't the Demo of Forza feel like what F355 would if it were on a console. The same need to finess the brakes, the same need to not accelerate to hard, all that. In the demo alone it gave a more "i'm really driving a car feel" just because it was so unforgiving I didn't get that from GT4. I got "Hey you're driving a pretty bad azz car here with turbo's and NAWZ and woo man am I a great game or what" feeling

 

[McLaren]

Forza is nowhere as difficult as F355. The demo seemed to prove that.

F355 for Sega Dreamcast was a tough game to grap on to, and why these "reviewers," gave it low scores b/c they couldn't play it.
Well, you can't automatically jump into a race car and know what to do.