GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]
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LaBounti
Nitpicking, if GT4 had Network Mode and charges $5/day, the GT fanbois will be spending hundreds of $$
With Forza or any Xbox Live game, if you are a new member, you get 30 days to play for free. Personally since I am at work, that works fine for me. I'll play for a month and then that's it.
Forza addressed this problem, tuning is key here. I love the Laguna Seca track, it feels much more wider than GT4. Add to that much more challenging AI than GT4's drone cars...
Everyone is saying GT4 is just too "jumpy", let's see how "high" Forza is going!
http://www.xboxfront.de/daten/screenshots/bilder_7560.jpg
http://www.xboxfront.de/daten/screenshots/bilder_7560.jpg
- 5,051
- Labounti
Looks pretty wide if thats the ring.
I can but it wouldnt be worth it for "me".
"It's not exactly expensive toplay XBL online, it's about £5 per month with the expensive isp's."
True but my NA and free online play for PS2 doesnt get used. So i"d be paying for somehting i did use much.
Symtex
I can but it wouldnt be worth it for "me".
"It's not exactly expensive toplay XBL online, it's about £5 per month with the expensive isp's."
True but my NA and free online play for PS2 doesnt get used. So i"d be paying for somehting i did use much.
- 4,004
- Croatia
I was only critical and objective.
When you get the game and start to play it, then ask yourself about the time and money that was crammed into with results that you'll be able to see.
Come back then and read my posts again and maybe you'll get the picture.
Scores for Forza are too high, and that is simply unexplainable. If Forza deserves that scores, that is seriuos insult for other XB games, far superior then Forza in many aspects. Believe me on that one, since I know something about that.
And I was just ironic with idea of reviews being geting paid by M$ - still, it is not nothing unusal these days and especially in this industry, but nevermind that now.
I just do not understand why can't you live with the idea that I can find this game good - which I have clearly stated in the very beggining - but in the same time have lots of complaints about it? Forza is a great racer with great flaws.
Nothing is perfect - even not Forza. Get over that.
When you get the game and start to play it, then ask yourself about the time and money that was crammed into with results that you'll be able to see.
Come back then and read my posts again and maybe you'll get the picture.
Scores for Forza are too high, and that is simply unexplainable. If Forza deserves that scores, that is seriuos insult for other XB games, far superior then Forza in many aspects. Believe me on that one, since I know something about that.
And I was just ironic with idea of reviews being geting paid by M$ - still, it is not nothing unusal these days and especially in this industry, but nevermind that now.
I just do not understand why can't you live with the idea that I can find this game good - which I have clearly stated in the very beggining - but in the same time have lots of complaints about it? Forza is a great racer with great flaws.
Nothing is perfect - even not Forza. Get over that.
amar212
You are being a fanboy. The game is great. What 's so hard about that ? It is because it's made by Microsoft ? You got to get over it. The game is everything racers wants : full online implementation, full car customisation, great list of car, and great physics. What else do you want ? a Sony sign on it ?
With the attitude you are having, you will lose credibility.
- 2,461
amar212
pfff. I dont believe forza is perfect. I actually doubt it's better pound for pound than GT4.
scores are relative and subjective. therefore, a game is given a higher score than another because it plays better and is a better package overall.
GT4 is at once both a magnificent achievement and a magnificent pain in the ass. but you just have to accept that things are going to be flawed. I'm harsher on GT because theyve had years and years of experience while the forza crew is still green.
so if you weigh the facts, you shouldnt be so dismissive and cranky.
kinigitt
I've been trying to be very objective comparing GT4 and Forza. Pushing the scores aside, I frankly don't care what GT & Forza scored.
As a package, GT4 feels the part, it is the 800lb gorilla in driving sim. It gets you going as you discover so many things to do in the game.. But after 3+ months of playing I felt like it was like playing a Japanese RPG game, it gets pretty repetitive.
The driving style I use is not much different than GT3, more braking now as GT4 requires you to drive cleaner lines.
GT4 with the DF wheel is pretty immersive but like I said it became repetitive after acquiring over 20+ cars in one day, the same mod - tune car ritual that we waste so much time. Then the Photo Mode which I liked a lot in the beginning, made us waste more time setting up different angles and scenes to get the sweetest shots, I actually hooked it up to my Epson Photo printer and printed a bunch of pics. After 1 month it was played.
When I started playing Forza, immediately I felt it was very satisfying to drive and pull driving manuvers that I wouldn't do in GT4. Just wasn't amazing to do in GT4 with the physics so locked down.
The biggest difference is gonna be the online mode, you can say Half-Life 2 is the best PC game but Counterstrike beats it in replayability... that is what GT4 vs Forza will be...
I'm going to try something and see if we can get it set in stone which is better.
Forza - GT4
Grahpics 9 - 10
Sounds 9 - 7.5
Presentation 8.5 - 8
Game Play 9.5 - 9
Lasting Appeal 10 - 8.5
Graphics...
It's pretty obvious GT4 has the better looking graphics, may not have the polys but it makes up for the great texture work.
Sounds....
There's just no comparing the two when it come's to sounds. GT4 car sounds are ridiculous. A viper should sound like a viper and well it doesn't. And the tire squeal is just annyoing.
Presentation...
These are pretty equal. They both don't do the greatest job in the world but GT4's large map type a deal just dosn't do it for me. I dont like scrolling around looking for something.
Game Play...
I wanted to give GT4 a lower score but I coundn't because of the sher amount of race's and cars there are. But then thats also a downside. There's so many races and such crap AI it's not very rewarding to win races.
Lasting Appeal...
Well, online is all I really have to say about that.
So thats what I have to say about the two. These are my opinions obviously and I would like for you guys to tell me your opinions on those scores. And if you have time make your own to see what everyone else thinks is better or worse about each game.
Forza - GT4
Grahpics 9 - 10
Sounds 9 - 7.5
Presentation 8.5 - 8
Game Play 9.5 - 9
Lasting Appeal 10 - 8.5
Graphics...
It's pretty obvious GT4 has the better looking graphics, may not have the polys but it makes up for the great texture work.
Sounds....
There's just no comparing the two when it come's to sounds. GT4 car sounds are ridiculous. A viper should sound like a viper and well it doesn't. And the tire squeal is just annyoing.
Presentation...
These are pretty equal. They both don't do the greatest job in the world but GT4's large map type a deal just dosn't do it for me. I dont like scrolling around looking for something.
Game Play...
I wanted to give GT4 a lower score but I coundn't because of the sher amount of race's and cars there are. But then thats also a downside. There's so many races and such crap AI it's not very rewarding to win races.
Lasting Appeal...
Well, online is all I really have to say about that.
So thats what I have to say about the two. These are my opinions obviously and I would like for you guys to tell me your opinions on those scores. And if you have time make your own to see what everyone else thinks is better or worse about each game.
- 4,004
- Croatia
Not dissmisive. I've just end up the discussion. Now I'll try to do the review.
Have spent lots of time with the game since yesterday just because I was trying to see was I wrong. Now I see I was. Things are even worse.
Graphics in Forza are 30fps, with blurry backgrounds, plastic looking cars, cartoonish tracks (both real and fictional. but especialy fictional) and totaly misjudged and missinterpreted proportions of cars, tracks and surroundings (as together, as in total). Widescreen is out of proportions, 60 HZ is a joke. Pure facts.
Nuburgring proportions. My dear.
Sound gets even worse. The starting sound of cars is OK, it's rich and full. V8 sounds like V8, the Ferrari sounds like Ferrari, no problem there. But, in the minute you go modding, things changes drastically. Adding parts makes pretty hilarious effects to sounds. Since you can't know what I'm refering to, after you get the game, you'll get the picture. "Oil barell" noise should be the right description.
In 5.1 mode everything goes lunatic. Sounds of cars on tracks are mixing together. The tyre sound gets so annoying you have to turn it down. Thakfully, there is a option to do so. Same with the sound of other cars. If you don't turn down the "enviromental" sounds, their sound is almost louder then the engine of the car you're sitting in.
And when you turn the enviromental sounds down THE surprise - remember crashes? When you crash, there is no sound for crash. No sound at all. Engine just goes underevving in something I'll call "Forzaquliar" way. And it doesn't even end there. Replay. My favourite.
Switching between cars will switch the cars, but not the sound. You can hear the sound of car you've switch in only if you are far away from your car and main field pack. You have to hear to believe. It is very lousy job. Very.
Gameplay. Races are split into 5 categories, point-to-point, 3 basic leagues (begginer-pro-expert) and endurances. Point-to-poit consists of 10 races on few p-t-p tracks, with almost 7 versions of the same Tokyo track. Leagues are pretty much expected (FF, FR, MR, Lancer vs. Integra, heavyweiight, Porsche cup...). Nothing specatacular. Since I didn't unlock endurances yet, I can't say is there any wather or time-of-the-day-changes. But, from all the infos and pics there are on the net, I do not think so. Nothing to be excited with.
Originality is far lowest, since Forza does not bring anything new in the genre. Except engine swaps. And 3D rims in-game. What an achievements.
Decals and paints have been seen in NFS in 2003., great online support has been seen in TOCA 2 in mid 2004. for 21 - twenty and one - players simultaniously on the track, with better graphics, propper sounds, full-damage-model and so on, while all other aspects exists in world of racing simulations for almost a decade. And on some other forums you can read what users think about Forza leaderboards, since I do not use Xbox LIve! and I'll sustain of commenting it.
But, inclusion of online and system-link, together with split-screen earns Forza a best score for multiiplayer assets.
For physics score speaks for itself. Just turn off all the assists and press the pedal of you MR driven, 280 HP NSX. You'll see no wheelspin, no loss of traction, nothing. Car will accelerate like the bullet. Only decent physics simulation is done in braking - but - big but - when you mod your engine, and change the brake-bias, you'll witness on of the funniest effects ever seen in driving games - the revs fall dramatically, the car slow down, and you have the feeling that you've used E-brake instead of brakes. Lower the gears and your car will allmost be shuted-down. It can't be desscribed by words.
Not to mention the wheels-turning. Look at the replay will explain my point. Digital. One and zero. Wheels are either turned or it is not. No middle. Hilarious.
Oh, and you just have to try to drive with analogue sticks. And feel the grip. With big G.
And I will not even bother to talk wider about the grip, the game speaks for itself.
I just can't waste any more of my time here. Forza is the biggest scrwup that Microsoft has done in previous years, as all the time and funding has gone into a product with very questionable quality.
It is a nice game, a nice try, a must-have racer for Xbox, but it stays in the middle of the class, with TOCA 2, both RalliSport and even Gotham ahead of it.
TOCA 2 because is better, RalliSport because it is the most comprehensive racer on XB and Gotham because you actually expect 3 different tracks in NY in the same area with different layout there. And because the crashing sound. And all 3 because damage looks better. And in TOCA it even feels real.
Microsoft has lots of it to learn, and all the scores over the web are highly overrrated and exhilarated and all of this is just IMHO.
Have spent lots of time with the game since yesterday just because I was trying to see was I wrong. Now I see I was. Things are even worse.
Graphics in Forza are 30fps, with blurry backgrounds, plastic looking cars, cartoonish tracks (both real and fictional. but especialy fictional) and totaly misjudged and missinterpreted proportions of cars, tracks and surroundings (as together, as in total). Widescreen is out of proportions, 60 HZ is a joke. Pure facts.
Nuburgring proportions. My dear.
Sound gets even worse. The starting sound of cars is OK, it's rich and full. V8 sounds like V8, the Ferrari sounds like Ferrari, no problem there. But, in the minute you go modding, things changes drastically. Adding parts makes pretty hilarious effects to sounds. Since you can't know what I'm refering to, after you get the game, you'll get the picture. "Oil barell" noise should be the right description.
In 5.1 mode everything goes lunatic. Sounds of cars on tracks are mixing together. The tyre sound gets so annoying you have to turn it down. Thakfully, there is a option to do so. Same with the sound of other cars. If you don't turn down the "enviromental" sounds, their sound is almost louder then the engine of the car you're sitting in.
And when you turn the enviromental sounds down THE surprise - remember crashes? When you crash, there is no sound for crash. No sound at all. Engine just goes underevving in something I'll call "Forzaquliar" way. And it doesn't even end there. Replay. My favourite.
Switching between cars will switch the cars, but not the sound. You can hear the sound of car you've switch in only if you are far away from your car and main field pack. You have to hear to believe. It is very lousy job. Very.
Gameplay. Races are split into 5 categories, point-to-point, 3 basic leagues (begginer-pro-expert) and endurances. Point-to-poit consists of 10 races on few p-t-p tracks, with almost 7 versions of the same Tokyo track. Leagues are pretty much expected (FF, FR, MR, Lancer vs. Integra, heavyweiight, Porsche cup...). Nothing specatacular. Since I didn't unlock endurances yet, I can't say is there any wather or time-of-the-day-changes. But, from all the infos and pics there are on the net, I do not think so. Nothing to be excited with.
Originality is far lowest, since Forza does not bring anything new in the genre. Except engine swaps. And 3D rims in-game. What an achievements.
Decals and paints have been seen in NFS in 2003., great online support has been seen in TOCA 2 in mid 2004. for 21 - twenty and one - players simultaniously on the track, with better graphics, propper sounds, full-damage-model and so on, while all other aspects exists in world of racing simulations for almost a decade. And on some other forums you can read what users think about Forza leaderboards, since I do not use Xbox LIve! and I'll sustain of commenting it.
But, inclusion of online and system-link, together with split-screen earns Forza a best score for multiiplayer assets.
For physics score speaks for itself. Just turn off all the assists and press the pedal of you MR driven, 280 HP NSX. You'll see no wheelspin, no loss of traction, nothing. Car will accelerate like the bullet. Only decent physics simulation is done in braking - but - big but - when you mod your engine, and change the brake-bias, you'll witness on of the funniest effects ever seen in driving games - the revs fall dramatically, the car slow down, and you have the feeling that you've used E-brake instead of brakes. Lower the gears and your car will allmost be shuted-down. It can't be desscribed by words.
Not to mention the wheels-turning. Look at the replay will explain my point. Digital. One and zero. Wheels are either turned or it is not. No middle. Hilarious.
Oh, and you just have to try to drive with analogue sticks. And feel the grip. With big G.
And I will not even bother to talk wider about the grip, the game speaks for itself.
I just can't waste any more of my time here. Forza is the biggest scrwup that Microsoft has done in previous years, as all the time and funding has gone into a product with very questionable quality.
It is a nice game, a nice try, a must-have racer for Xbox, but it stays in the middle of the class, with TOCA 2, both RalliSport and even Gotham ahead of it.
TOCA 2 because is better, RalliSport because it is the most comprehensive racer on XB and Gotham because you actually expect 3 different tracks in NY in the same area with different layout there. And because the crashing sound. And all 3 because damage looks better. And in TOCA it even feels real.
Microsoft has lots of it to learn, and all the scores over the web are highly overrrated and exhilarated and all of this is just IMHO.
Well you never really presented any real flaws with the game...But then again it was an opinionated review. Use the Fanatec wheel and you'll see that the wheel turning isn't digital. The same is said for GT4 with the DS...you go from 0-100 in a fraction of an inch...How do you expect it to be displayed at 30-60fps? It's faster than anything can keep up with..So it looks digital...
As for Dolby's car sounds all mixing together, what do you think happens in your car? You think a cockpit is a sensory depravation chamber? When there are 4 cars next to you all at 5000-6000 rpm's..You're going to hear every single one of them, not just your own engine.
As far as originality goes....It's a simulator...It's not supposed to be "original" It's supposed to follow the Genre of Simulators...Just be BETTER.
You can modify your cars exterior aswell as performance, not really apparent in many other "simulators" especially consol sims.....
Crashing sound, call me crazy but everytime I make contact with a wall/tires/other cars I hear contact....Maybe that's my mind just projecting the thought of Sound.....crazy man here I guess..
As far as GT4's "great texture work"...I think the picture threads will shoot down that whole idea, with the 2d emblems/pictures.....horrible car A-frames...and LOADS of jaggies...but...That's also YOUR opinion.
As for physics...I don't know what game you're playing, but if you ebrake you're car will fishtail...
If you slam on the brakes with/without ABS..your car will fishtail....
If you have a manual NSX and turn off all assists... You will have wheelspin.
As for not talking wider about the grip?...what do you mean? There's nothing wrong with the grip of the car, If you go into a 40 MPH corner doing 70...You're going to lose grip.......If your tail end gets ahead of your front end.....You're not going to all of a sudden get traction and control your car, you've got to wait for your car to STOP, you can't just correct.....But you must have not known that.
as for this?
Plastic looking cars? As compared to Chrome cars?
Cartoonish tracks...Like Plant life, and buildings with texture...Damn cartoons.
Misjudged and missinterpreted propotions of cars?
someone PLEASE give me an example of that..PLEASE..Because maybe I got a crappy copy where my Civic isn't as long as a Viper...Damn EB ripped me off...
Surroundings are out of proportion? You mean....A car isn't as high as the tire walls? Since when?
As for Dolby's car sounds all mixing together, what do you think happens in your car? You think a cockpit is a sensory depravation chamber? When there are 4 cars next to you all at 5000-6000 rpm's..You're going to hear every single one of them, not just your own engine.
As far as originality goes....It's a simulator...It's not supposed to be "original" It's supposed to follow the Genre of Simulators...Just be BETTER.
You can modify your cars exterior aswell as performance, not really apparent in many other "simulators" especially consol sims.....
Crashing sound, call me crazy but everytime I make contact with a wall/tires/other cars I hear contact....Maybe that's my mind just projecting the thought of Sound.....crazy man here I guess..
As far as GT4's "great texture work"...I think the picture threads will shoot down that whole idea, with the 2d emblems/pictures.....horrible car A-frames...and LOADS of jaggies...but...That's also YOUR opinion.
As for physics...I don't know what game you're playing, but if you ebrake you're car will fishtail...
If you slam on the brakes with/without ABS..your car will fishtail....
If you have a manual NSX and turn off all assists... You will have wheelspin.
As for not talking wider about the grip?...what do you mean? There's nothing wrong with the grip of the car, If you go into a 40 MPH corner doing 70...You're going to lose grip.......If your tail end gets ahead of your front end.....You're not going to all of a sudden get traction and control your car, you've got to wait for your car to STOP, you can't just correct.....But you must have not known that.
as for this?
Blurry backgrounds...It's called sensation of speed.
Plastic looking cars? As compared to Chrome cars?
Cartoonish tracks...Like Plant life, and buildings with texture...Damn cartoons.
Misjudged and missinterpreted propotions of cars?
someone PLEASE give me an example of that..PLEASE..Because maybe I got a crappy copy where my Civic isn't as long as a Viper...Damn EB ripped me off...
Surroundings are out of proportion? You mean....A car isn't as high as the tire walls? Since when?
- 127
amar212
I am calling BS.. I really don't think he's even played the game, because everything he mentioned were just things brought up in topics around this board. All of which have been shot down upon playing the game...But he can go ahead and resume the E-beat down of a game.....
I mean, atleast I refrained from dissing GT4 untill I owned it...Damn.
I mean, atleast I refrained from dissing GT4 untill I owned it...Damn.
- 5,611
- Gabkicks
- GabkicksX
some people just have high expectatations. 
you expect much games to get much better and better as years go by, and refined complete filling products, then expect to be dissapointed most of the time. Sofare the only racing game that hasnt dissapointed me at all is LFS. rbr is awsome. but i want initial D type mountain battles. 
its got a realistic online rally mode now though.
you expect much games to get much better and better as years go by, and refined complete filling products, then expect to be dissapointed most of the time. Sofare the only racing game that hasnt dissapointed me at all is LFS. rbr is awsome. but i want initial D type mountain battles. its got a realistic online rally mode now though.
- 4,004
- Croatia
I'm way to serious to claim that I have the game and I do not have it. Please people.
As for blurry backkgrounds - look at the Autumn Track.
As for cartoon - look at the Tokyo.
As for proportions - just go to Nurb, take an Bentley Speed 8, then drive to the middle section, take a outside look to an track and car and compare the height of the car with the height of the freaking curbs. Then do the same with the width. Do it also on Tsukuba. And on laguna. And on all licenced tracks. It takes just eyes to do it.
Please, be serious. And stop inputtting the godamn Sony, since I have not mention a single word about comparing Forza with GT.
As for blurry backkgrounds - look at the Autumn Track.
As for cartoon - look at the Tokyo.
As for proportions - just go to Nurb, take an Bentley Speed 8, then drive to the middle section, take a outside look to an track and car and compare the height of the car with the height of the freaking curbs. Then do the same with the width. Do it also on Tsukuba. And on laguna. And on all licenced tracks. It takes just eyes to do it.
Please, be serious. And stop inputtting the godamn Sony, since I have not mention a single word about comparing Forza with GT.
amar212
Like I said...Blurry backgrounds are for Sensation of speed. It's a 100% beautiful thing. The faster you go, the harder it is for your eyes to adjust to the surroundings. I think what YOUR expecting is that the game should judge where your eyes are focused on. You think the game should interpret where you're looking, so it's clarity should adjust depending on what you're looking at. I'm sorry, but NO game can do that. So the toss up is either, have 100% crisp graphics and have it feel like you're doing 100, when you're doing 220...... Or have your so called "blurry background" and make it feel like you're doing 100 when you're doing 100, and 200 when you're doing 200..
For one, go take a Corvette C6 and go to leguna...Then talk about proportions of that track, that track is DEAD on, i'm sorry if you dissagree about that..But there's no denying that. As for the nurburgring, I've never gone there so I have nothing to compare it to. There's no denying the ring appears to have wider sections than real life, but did youe ever think that it could be a buffer zone? Since you are using drivatar some of the time, it's bound to make errors. Would you rather have that extra foot or have him slam into the side wall, damage the car, lose valuable seconds, and lose the race? Same for Tsukuba...
Actually Tsukuba's pretty damn dead on aswell. Concrete walls are the right height, tire walls are the right height.
Banners are about right... Tree's are about the right height...Don't see much wrong with those propotions.. As for car/car.....Those are dead on aswell.
- 127
amar212
I haven't got the game yet but from the screens and vids I have seen the Nurburgring looks very nice. I do agree that the cars look too small compared to the track in some screens but then again the cars in GT4 are a touch to big compared to the track. the PGR2 size looks about right but lacks the bumps... every game has its weaknesses. I think you are way too negative on Forza in your (hard to believe) "review". Some remarks are just not true or they must have made the final version worse than the demo, someting I find very hard to believe.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,717
- Texas
I've only played the game a bit, but seriously, Forza's Nurb is still crap.
The trees aren't all the right height. And how the hell do you know how exactly tall everything on and near Tsukuba is, Driftster?
What? Do you have a game tap measure that can measure game's object's heights? And then automatically know the real world ones?
Whatever.
The trees aren't all the right height. And how the hell do you know how exactly tall everything on and near Tsukuba is, Driftster?
What? Do you have a game tap measure that can measure game's object's heights? And then automatically know the real world ones?
Whatever.
Forza's Nurb leaves something to be wanted...But as for NSX guy
No I don't have a polygon-tape measure
No but i've seen plenty of NSX's drive around tsukuba and I can tell relatively how high the walls are compared to that car, and I know about how big TREES are...I'm pretty sure everyone in here knows how big trees are..-.-;;
No I don't have a polygon-tape measure
No but i've seen plenty of NSX's drive around tsukuba and I can tell relatively how high the walls are compared to that car, and I know about how big TREES are...I'm pretty sure everyone in here knows how big trees are..-.-;;
Ive been playing Forza for the last 2 hours and there is somethings I like and there is something I dont.
I like the actual racing against other cars. Its actually competitive and fun todo. I like the car customization and I like all the output the game gives you about your cars.
Things I dont like are well, the whole drving model. Ive been spoiled by GT4's sense of speed, the way the screen shakes, the sound of the wind, and I guess its less forgiving physics. I find getting around turns easier in Forza. I can drift cars without any skill.
Ive only spent 2 hours with the game and I cant determine what game is a better overall package so far but I can say Forza's driving model is not upto par with GT4's.
I like the actual racing against other cars. Its actually competitive and fun todo. I like the car customization and I like all the output the game gives you about your cars.
Things I dont like are well, the whole drving model. Ive been spoiled by GT4's sense of speed, the way the screen shakes, the sound of the wind, and I guess its less forgiving physics. I find getting around turns easier in Forza. I can drift cars without any skill.
Ive only spent 2 hours with the game and I cant determine what game is a better overall package so far but I can say Forza's driving model is not upto par with GT4's.
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