- 2,837
- GTP_Div
I wish I had an Xbox, seriously!
GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]
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O_ROD
k so by your logic....when you drive to work, your not really driving unless you crash on the way?
sorry crashing and driving are not the same thing. If you want a "crash" sim I think Forza is better, but still not all that in the crash dept. Its very forgiving. And if you read my posts before, the driving physics are not that realistic at all.
I also find it funny how someone who obviously didnt like GT4 (which is fine) came to a GT message board to complain about it. bored?
And to finish off my rant.....it really doesnt matter cause there never will be a true driving sim...its all what you take from it. For the majority of people GT is the closest for getting the feel of driving in a game period. If I hated Forza the last thing I Would do is go to a Forza board to complain about it. Thats just silly.
Div is back
Photomode truly was an interesing idea...at first I didnt really understand why they would "waste" all that R&D time on a "gimmick" But then after using it, it made perfect sense. Whats one of the main attractions of the GT series? I Would say collecting cars. Photomode and car collecting are made for each other. To be honest I dont think I could go back to not having photomode...its a blast
http://reviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/940/Forza-Motorsport/p1/
I realise it is an Xbox site, but it is a nice review.
I realise it is an Xbox site, but it is a nice review.
** Gamespot scores Forza 9.2 ! **
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/driving/forzamotorsport/review.html
Enjoy!
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/driving/forzamotorsport/review.html
Enjoy!
- 4,004
- Croatia
Development team of Forza Motorsport should all get fired.
Three years of development and millions of dollars has been spent in goal to make a decent racing simulation for Xbox. No price was too high: the game was funded for a year and a half in total secrecy, as some kind of Xbox SkunkWork Project, and Microsoft even cashed the enourmous amounts of money to secure two potentially most valuable licences for car-usage in the world, Ferrari's and Porsche's.
But, they've managed to ruin it. Totally. And just to make it clear: FM is not a bad game. It is not bad driving game too. Not bad simulator at all. But is bad driving simulation that was hailed as "the most realistic ever" (in various itterations) trough all the previews and PR wotes in past years.
Forza has failed in hole of it's own goals and hype. The mark was set too high, and that is said by heavily taking ito concern the fact it is their first game for Xbox. But - it is marked as Microsoft Studios game. It is not third party project. It is not an conversion. It is 100% Xbox Exlusive, made especially for Xbox, with all the resources that Big M has gave to FM devopers in order to achieve one single goal - to make it the best. Did they do it? No. What did they do? They've put engine swaps in the tuning section. Tinted windows. Skid marks. Decals. NFS style stuff. They've alowed you to Pimp your Ride. Thay've made you a Pimp. Not an racer. And hey should all get fired because of that.
I was very close to write down a whole novel about Forza, but now I've calmed down. You'll see it for yourself whaen you get the game. And just to ease my soul, I'll quote some of the biggest bulls ever written in history of game reviews, where Dude form GameSpot gave a Forza 9,2 (Superb), clearly showing where the money's coming from.
"Forza Motorsport is a stylish and challenging game that is easily one of the best racers on the Xbox, if not the best." (No, it's not. TOCA 2 is far better, sadly)
"If you don't have the slightest clue about entry points into turns or when to step on the brakes, Forza has a handy "suggested line" feature that is one of the slickest innovations in racing games to come along in a long time." (which exists in Formula One games since 1998., but do not bother Dude)
"Becoming reliant on the other aids in the game, such as ABS or traction control, is forgivable, because many of the cars found in Forza contain these types of assists in real life, and as you might expect, there is a huge leap in skill required with these assists turned off." ("Leap" works like this - you turn off ALL the assists, including ABS, then buy a professional brake kit, adjust balance and the car will brake without oversteer/understeer, it will not even skid)
"When driving in first-person view, a handy rearview mirror makes spotting your stalking opponents easy. You'll also be able to use the right analog stick to look directly left, right, or behind, or at 45-degree angles both behind and in front of the car." (Notice that "right analogue stick usage" works only in default controller scheme with acceleration / brake on shoulder triggers. If you choose alternate scheme for controller to use the shoulders for gearing, the ability to look aroud dissapears)
"Analog gas and brakes feel nice, and although the game won't let you map buttons in the exact configuration that you'd like" (Love this one best)
"The graphical beauty found in Forza starts with the big, bright car models. The smooth lines on the car models are of exceptional quality and appear remarkably similar to their real-life counterparts, all the way down to the ridges on the tires and the detailed grills." (the Dude forget to say that cars looks like they've made of plastic, which you'll see for yourself - please, do not judge from the developer screens, since game does not look like that at all. All I can say is Bentley GT)
"...and the absolutely massive amounts of background detail on Germany's Nürburgring. The 'ring seems to be a regular guest star in today's racing games, but never has it looked as lush, as opulent, or simply as immense as it does in Forza." (and some pics I've attached before in this thread are sadly pics from the final version. Judge for yourself, as the cars are proportioned almost exactly the same as shown on those pics )
"Perhaps the best aspect of Forza's presentation is in the game menus, which do a fine job of sorting through a massive amount of information. " (This particular sentence made me laugh, because I have never seen that somebody spent three years in doing game, and then delivered such a crappy menus and overall presentation)
ENDS
Forza Motorsport will certanly do it's job by setting up massive XLive! community, it will probably make this forum very busy place in days to come and it will probably heat the tensions in terms of "GT vs. Forza" as never before.
But, to make it pure and simple: it just does not deliver what has been promised. Plastic-looking cars, 30-fps, blurry surroundings and okward usage of F&P licences makes it a very bad game for something that has spent three years and millions of dollars for development.
That is the only reason the developer team should get fired. They've had a chance to make something very, very unique, and all they've did is so very, very not-unique.
I am dissapointed with Forza because of that, because I was expecting best racer on Xbox. Sadly, it is just second-best, and maybe even third-best. Good sounds, Pimping features and Ferrari and Porsche just can't make up for all other very luosy made jobs.
And just to make it clear: I've spent hours and hours with final build of Forza, trying to convince myself it is worth it. But - it is not. It is not bad, but it is certanly not superb. It is far from superb.
Fire them out - all of them.
Three years of development and millions of dollars has been spent in goal to make a decent racing simulation for Xbox. No price was too high: the game was funded for a year and a half in total secrecy, as some kind of Xbox SkunkWork Project, and Microsoft even cashed the enourmous amounts of money to secure two potentially most valuable licences for car-usage in the world, Ferrari's and Porsche's.
But, they've managed to ruin it. Totally. And just to make it clear: FM is not a bad game. It is not bad driving game too. Not bad simulator at all. But is bad driving simulation that was hailed as "the most realistic ever" (in various itterations) trough all the previews and PR wotes in past years.
Forza has failed in hole of it's own goals and hype. The mark was set too high, and that is said by heavily taking ito concern the fact it is their first game for Xbox. But - it is marked as Microsoft Studios game. It is not third party project. It is not an conversion. It is 100% Xbox Exlusive, made especially for Xbox, with all the resources that Big M has gave to FM devopers in order to achieve one single goal - to make it the best. Did they do it? No. What did they do? They've put engine swaps in the tuning section. Tinted windows. Skid marks. Decals. NFS style stuff. They've alowed you to Pimp your Ride. Thay've made you a Pimp. Not an racer. And hey should all get fired because of that.
I was very close to write down a whole novel about Forza, but now I've calmed down. You'll see it for yourself whaen you get the game. And just to ease my soul, I'll quote some of the biggest bulls ever written in history of game reviews, where Dude form GameSpot gave a Forza 9,2 (Superb), clearly showing where the money's coming from.
"Forza Motorsport is a stylish and challenging game that is easily one of the best racers on the Xbox, if not the best." (No, it's not. TOCA 2 is far better, sadly)
"If you don't have the slightest clue about entry points into turns or when to step on the brakes, Forza has a handy "suggested line" feature that is one of the slickest innovations in racing games to come along in a long time." (which exists in Formula One games since 1998., but do not bother Dude)
"Becoming reliant on the other aids in the game, such as ABS or traction control, is forgivable, because many of the cars found in Forza contain these types of assists in real life, and as you might expect, there is a huge leap in skill required with these assists turned off." ("Leap" works like this - you turn off ALL the assists, including ABS, then buy a professional brake kit, adjust balance and the car will brake without oversteer/understeer, it will not even skid)
"When driving in first-person view, a handy rearview mirror makes spotting your stalking opponents easy. You'll also be able to use the right analog stick to look directly left, right, or behind, or at 45-degree angles both behind and in front of the car." (Notice that "right analogue stick usage" works only in default controller scheme with acceleration / brake on shoulder triggers. If you choose alternate scheme for controller to use the shoulders for gearing, the ability to look aroud dissapears)
"Analog gas and brakes feel nice, and although the game won't let you map buttons in the exact configuration that you'd like" (Love this one best)
"The graphical beauty found in Forza starts with the big, bright car models. The smooth lines on the car models are of exceptional quality and appear remarkably similar to their real-life counterparts, all the way down to the ridges on the tires and the detailed grills." (the Dude forget to say that cars looks like they've made of plastic, which you'll see for yourself - please, do not judge from the developer screens, since game does not look like that at all. All I can say is Bentley GT)
"...and the absolutely massive amounts of background detail on Germany's Nürburgring. The 'ring seems to be a regular guest star in today's racing games, but never has it looked as lush, as opulent, or simply as immense as it does in Forza." (and some pics I've attached before in this thread are sadly pics from the final version. Judge for yourself, as the cars are proportioned almost exactly the same as shown on those pics )
"Perhaps the best aspect of Forza's presentation is in the game menus, which do a fine job of sorting through a massive amount of information. " (This particular sentence made me laugh, because I have never seen that somebody spent three years in doing game, and then delivered such a crappy menus and overall presentation)
ENDS
Forza Motorsport will certanly do it's job by setting up massive XLive! community, it will probably make this forum very busy place in days to come and it will probably heat the tensions in terms of "GT vs. Forza" as never before.
But, to make it pure and simple: it just does not deliver what has been promised. Plastic-looking cars, 30-fps, blurry surroundings and okward usage of F&P licences makes it a very bad game for something that has spent three years and millions of dollars for development.
That is the only reason the developer team should get fired. They've had a chance to make something very, very unique, and all they've did is so very, very not-unique.
I am dissapointed with Forza because of that, because I was expecting best racer on Xbox. Sadly, it is just second-best, and maybe even third-best. Good sounds, Pimping features and Ferrari and Porsche just can't make up for all other very luosy made jobs.
And just to make it clear: I've spent hours and hours with final build of Forza, trying to convince myself it is worth it. But - it is not. It is not bad, but it is certanly not superb. It is far from superb.
Fire them out - all of them.
- 148
All that said Amar212, it's still a more enjoyable and rewarding game to play than GT4, and I haven't played online yet... All I gotta say is A.I! GT4 ain't got none, Forza has, that is the HUGE let down yet again with the latest GT game, the cars in GT4 very rarley battle for position and stick to the racing line, even if you crash on GT4 one of the a.i cars may have a ton of time to avoid you but no, they will smash straight into you, very, very annoying. I have loved the GT series, always will, but in this case, I really do think that Forza has the edge over GT4.
amar, sour grapes mate. I hope you can enjoy both games for what they are, I have never felt the need to put down GT4 in favour of Forza because I admire PD's work and I love GT4, that's the god's honest truth. I hope you can appreciate the work that MS and the Forza team has done on thier first game in the simulation genre. To create a game even near the quality of the GT franchise should be given credit without obvious and mean spirited put down's, that does you a disservice.
Just because Forza is recieving great review's that does not lessen how great the GT games are, in fact GT5 whenever that comes out, will be so much better as a result of the compitition created by Forza - this can only be possitive for gamer's.
Thankyou for taking the time to read this.
Just because Forza is recieving great review's that does not lessen how great the GT games are, in fact GT5 whenever that comes out, will be so much better as a result of the compitition created by Forza - this can only be possitive for gamer's.
Thankyou for taking the time to read this.
- 4,004
- Croatia
Tytarian
You have understand it all wrong.
I haven't said a word about GT because it is not about comparing Forza with GT (no matter this particular thread is called like that
). It is only about Forza itself.My pooint is not that Forza is a bad game. It is not. I have clearly stated it out in the first sentences. It is a great driving game and a pretty good simulation. It combines various aspects of racing, street-tuning culture and very optimistic online fetures in unique way and it is probably next in series of strong franchises that Xbox has.
But.
Three years of development. Millions of dollars. All the help from MS. All developer tools, all analysers, all the testing. To get what? Blurry backgrounds? Tokyo track that looks like cartoon? Plastic-look cars? 30 fps? It is a shame, this way or another. One just has to have eyes.
I'm not a fanboy and I'm not 16. I tend to speak real and objective and only if I have something to say. And I find all those reviews on the net very un-objective. What was their motivation, it will stay unclear, but Forza is certanly not the peak of Xbox, as well it is not a peak of racing on Xbox.
The team behind FM has made nice job, but nothing behind it. If I was MS, I would just say bigh thanks to them and turn myself to Dice crew, for example, because even the first RalliSpport Challenge - and I bought it together with Xbox, four years ago - has done better job in terms of car modelling, proportions and track design. Not to speak about great job they've done with V8 Supercars games on PC.
It is just healthy criticysm and has nothing to do with comparing Forza with The Other Game. One just have to compare it with other Xbox racers and the result will be very plain. Sadly.
Still, I tend to play Forza over GT in time now, and it will remain that way. Having ability to drive Ferrari is a nice one but it is also saying more about the power of the Ferrari licence compared to power of the Forza as a game.
- 3,802
I agree with one thing amar said, they should have got dice to do it. Dice bloody rock.
The graphics in forza seem pretty good I thought, I downloaded some recent high quality vids. Judging by these I'd say forza is a pretty game.
Realise that games are not made JUST for you. Some people like that stuff, and I for one will be having fun making the most ridiculous looking car I can.
At the end of the day, I guess it's down to opinons, but most seem to be positive. I'll report back on my opinions when I get it XD.
I guess I could go on about how I no longer play GT4, as I got bored of it a few weeks ago. I'll probs go back to GT4 when I'm utterly bored. Trackmania sunrise, here I come..when it's out anyway. Oh and forza.
The graphics in forza seem pretty good I thought, I downloaded some recent high quality vids. Judging by these I'd say forza is a pretty game.
Realise that games are not made JUST for you. Some people like that stuff, and I for one will be having fun making the most ridiculous looking car I can.
At the end of the day, I guess it's down to opinons, but most seem to be positive. I'll report back on my opinions when I get it XD.
I guess I could go on about how I no longer play GT4, as I got bored of it a few weeks ago. I'll probs go back to GT4 when I'm utterly bored. Trackmania sunrise, here I come..when it's out anyway. Oh and forza.
Sorry I misinterpreted amar, I guess I just assumed you were trying to score points for GT4 while putting down Forza, I am glad that is not the case, and thank's for clearing that up.
As for you comment's on Forza, how did you get to play the Full retail build? I suppose it does not matter how, be it through legal or illegal mean's I don't have to know. I will just have to wait until I play Forza myself and I seriously doubt it has flaws as large as you are making them out to be, but if there are, I guess I will stand corrected.
I do not like the general attitude of your post so far as the part about you implying MS bought high review score's, that's just silly. I am not saying that it does not happen though, but it could happen to ANY game, and not all people will be bought. I am sure you know there will be many people who will love Forza and think you don't know what you are talking about, but I will keep your comment's in mind and try to be as objective as I can once I actually spend a good amount of time on it.
Anyway, I appreciate your imput and contructive criticism can be just as valuable as praise.
As for you comment's on Forza, how did you get to play the Full retail build? I suppose it does not matter how, be it through legal or illegal mean's I don't have to know. I will just have to wait until I play Forza myself and I seriously doubt it has flaws as large as you are making them out to be, but if there are, I guess I will stand corrected.
I do not like the general attitude of your post so far as the part about you implying MS bought high review score's, that's just silly. I am not saying that it does not happen though, but it could happen to ANY game, and not all people will be bought. I am sure you know there will be many people who will love Forza and think you don't know what you are talking about, but I will keep your comment's in mind and try to be as objective as I can once I actually spend a good amount of time on it.
Anyway, I appreciate your imput and contructive criticism can be just as valuable as praise.
- 148
Its not about 'Pimping' your car in Forza at all, different body upgrades affect your car weight, which affect your handling, braking and downforce. Its not all about cosmetic change at all.
- 4,004
- Croatia
welshgtlover
Of course it is not. And I really love the fact I can visualy tune my Mercedes-Benzos in the very unique way. And yes - those tunes are affecting overall handling in small percentages which is something to distinct it from being purely cosmetical, and hats down for that. I have spent some time with that feature, and I will spend even more in the future. I love it and I appriciate the job done there. And I will not comment the fact that only "Forza Motorsport" downforce parts are adjustable
.My point in paraphrasing "pimping" was in fact that all the FM's PR effort was leading into way: "Look, Forza will have everything that The Other Game does not have". It is true. It has.
But it also has just 30 fps, plastic-loking car models, blurry tracks with okward proportions and blurry backgrounds. I can live with all that, but only thing that I'm impliing here is that some very important things are made seriously dissapointing.
It seems like they've concetrated in making Forza as "The Other Game's wishlist come true", while forgetting to do some very impoortant technical, gameplay and using-the-full-hardware-potential issues. I can find lots of examples wat I'd do different if I was working on it, and it is only about very small and decent details. Still, details is what counts.
And note to Tyarian: I got my final build very legaly and I'm not saying that MS has bought their reviews, I just say that Forza does not deserve scores of that altitude. Just a little comparing and scratching under the paint should reveal that.
And please, do not take my critycism for granted, that is only my own stance, very unimportant in global scales
.Thank's for you expressing your point of view amar, without 'forza bashing' like so many other's do (and there are planty of GT4 basher's as well) I have to respect your opinion and hope that the game will live up to my expectation's, if the graphica are not at the maximum that the hardware is capable of that may because of all the physics calculation's (240 per second) that it is doing as well as damage other technical graphical techniques ect...would place a lot of strain on the cpu and Gpu. Since gameplay is (or should) be the most important factor when it comes to games, I don't place the most importance in the visuals, although graphics are important - gameply is where it's at.
And even in the noe year old dated demo of Forza the gameplay was among the best I have seen, in my opinion, than almost any other sim out there. I think I will enjoy Forza quite alot.
And even in the noe year old dated demo of Forza the gameplay was among the best I have seen, in my opinion, than almost any other sim out there. I think I will enjoy Forza quite alot.
- 4,004
- Croatia
Tytarian
Tytarian - let us put aside that you seem to me like someone who was in fact working on the Forza
.I'll be damn if I'd ever put graphics in front of simulation and gameplay, but you just can't say that Forza is delivering peak of what XB is capable to do.
Making frame rate higher would certanly sacrifice some of the nicely implemented damage-model, yes, but when you are a developer - you have to face with the consequnces of your work.
And if FM team decided to lock the game in 30fps just to ensure the slowdowns and have spent presciouss RAM elsewhere - on in-game 3D rims for example - then it is not a wise decision at all.
And I'll always prefer better sense of speed and smoother visuals then having 8 cars on the track, instead of - let us say - 6. For example.
And all those calcualtions-per-second issues are pretty much annoying for me - just take a look at TOCA 2 on PSone and I'll rest my case there.
This whole write-up-session is getting so much out of primary focus. I'll conclude here, have spent to much space.
amar212Of course it is not. And I really love the fact I can visualy tune my Mercedes-Benzos in the very unique way. And yes - those tunes are affecting overall handling in small percentages which is something to distinct it from being purely cosmetical, and hats down for that. I have spent some time with that feature, and I will spend even more in the future. I love it and I appriciate the job done there. And I will not comment the fact that only "Forza Motorsport" downforce parts are adjustable
My point in paraphrasing "pimping" was in fact that all the FM's PR effort was leading into way: "Look, Forza will have everything that The Other Game does not have". It is true. It has.
But it also has just 30 fps, plastic-loking car models, blurry tracks with okward proportions and blurry backgrounds. I can live with all that, but only thing that I'm impliing here is that some very important things are made seriously dissapointing.
It seems like they've concetrated in making Forza as "The Other Game's wishlist come true", while forgetting to do some very impoortant technical, gameplay and using-the-full-hardware-potential issues. I can find lots of examples wat I'd do different if I was working on it, and it is only about very small and decent details. Still, details is what counts.
And note to Tyarian: I got my final build very legaly and I'm not saying that MS has bought their reviews, I just say that Forza does not deserve scores of that altitude. Just a little comparing and scratching under the paint should reveal that.
And please, do not take my critycism for granted, that is only my own stance, very unimportant in global scales
I do not agree with you Amar. I think MGS delivered exactly what they said they would : A racing simulator that could be enjoy by casual and hardcore gamers. FM is exactly that. You have done the mistake of reading to much hype and build a faery tale around FM. If you take the game has it is, it has some awesome features like : Car club, Online career, Full customisation of your ride, great engine sound, good visual and great choices of car. I don't know why you are dissapointed with that.
Play the game a bit more and you'll see the depth that it has to offer. Once you are done with the carrer mode, You other carreer starts : Online. This is where IMO GT4 drops the ball. I love GT4 and I want to race with my friend but I can't. To me GT4 was more dissapointing to me because i'm a online racers, I want to share my enthusiam with my friends.
Both games are good but offers different style. No one wants a GT clone. FM delivers on that.
- 2,461
amar212Tytarian - let us put aside that you seem to me like someone who was in fact working on the Forza
I'll be damn if I'd ever put graphics in front of simulation and gameplay, but you just can't say that Forza is delivering peak of what XB is capable to do.
Making frame rate higher would certanly sacrifice some of the nicely implemented damage-model, yes, but when you are a developer - you have to face with the consequnces of your work.
And if FM team decided to lock the game in 30fps just to ensure the slowdowns and have spent presciouss RAM elsewhere - on in-game 3D rims for example - then it is not a wise decision at all.
And I'll always prefer better sense of speed and smoother visuals then having 8 cars on the track, instead of - let us say - 6. For example.
And all those calcualtions-per-second issues are pretty much annoying for me - just take a look at TOCA 2 on PSone and I'll rest my case there.
This whole write-up-session is getting so much out of primary focus. I'll conclude here, have spent to much space.
well hello mister party pooper.
I'll see whether your *****ing and moaning has merit tonight!
But judging from your posts, you seem like a minister of propaganda rather than an objective gamer.
1) you mention the funding and time spent on the game as a complaint.
GT4 took longer, and had full sony support, and did not innovate or even support online play. and make no mistake, online play is HUGE for a lot of people, especially on xbox.
Hence the argument sounds like a cheap political stab at M$
2) you have the sack to assume that reviewers are getting paid off. That's a completely infantile reaction to another game scoring higher than your favourite.
Call a whaaaaaaaaaambulance.
3) your biggest complaints are about options, and that you'd rather see the same gameplay as GT4 en lieu of them. (the customization, the damage, the extra opponents, the better graphical effects, etc.)
This is just silly and you know it. GT4 needs to step up in this area anyway, and has failed except for the addition of photomode. I for one can definitely hang with a rock solid 30FPS, and you'll find that the majority of people can too. They're not going to change their design philosophy, which, by the way, they told everyone about LONG AGO to please a bunch of elitist whiners who'll probably still bash the game.
4) You aknowledge that it's a good game, that it delivers a good driving experience, and that it has very good features, yet your post is just complete negativity after the intro.
and
5) In the same post that you reluctantly admit that the game is good, you preface it with a sweeping statement about Forza developers needing to be fired.
That just makes you king arrogant don't you think? I wouldn't ever say that about Polyphony digital workers that pour their lives into their games for 3 years just because I'M dissapointed with their product. Props are due where they're do, and developers are worked to the bone to deliver these pieces of entertainment.
You're showing your colours there by basically blowing things out of proportion because, admit it, you do not want to like the game. Which is fair enough.
Just don't pretend to be "objective" when you're most definitely not.
- 5,051
- Labounti
" online play is HUGE for a lot of people, especially on xbox"
Indeed, they are reminded of it when they see their credit card bill. I'll be renting it since I wont be playing online. PGR2 was dead in the water as far as single player mostly due to the game structure(car(uasully one is better than the rest) with the most bars will win on platnium)
Indeed, they are reminded of it when they see their credit card bill. I'll be renting it since I wont be playing online. PGR2 was dead in the water as far as single player mostly due to the game structure(car(uasully one is better than the rest) with the most bars will win on platnium)
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