GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]
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- 1,699
Yeah, I agree Forza is great fun and the graphics are amazing; I picked it up yesterday. I did fill the cars grip better and yes, it is easier to lose it. The Engine sounds are nice and the V8s actually sound like V8s with aftermarket exhaust. 👍code_kevWell Gt4 is designed to be played with both a wheel and a pad, just like forza, so frankly, I don't know what your on about. Gt4 is also pretty tame when compared to a real sim, try comparing it to LFS 2.
Having now played forza at a mates house, I can say that while it looks abit dull style wise, it plays pretty damn well, and the damage etc is great fun. I wouldn't say it's easier then Gt4, I'd say it's probs abit harder as the cars have a better sensation of power and grip, taking corners in Forza in a tuned 355 is nerve racking, while the hyper cars in Gt4 were pretty mundane. The way the cars gripped the roads in Forza was also abit more realistic, as was the way suspension seemed to react to my driving, pushing the cars was certainly less forgiving then GT4. The customisation in it is cool, nothing like having a Lotus elise with "8008135" on the side.
Do I think it's better then Gt4? Well it's more fun. The races are exciting, and there's a certain element of danger in it. The fps isn't too bad really either, I instantly noticed it wasn't as a smooth, but after a while I didn't even notice. I can see my self playing this more then Gt4 when it's out, I'm allready bored of GT4, aka pokemon with cars. Next time PD, make the game EXCITING, sheesh. For the next forza, the team should make the damage even better, make it run at 60 fps, and make the edges on the graphics cleaner. Oh and include exhausts pops, and a throatier engine sound.
Oh and the car models them selves are quite hit and miss, some are pretty damn nice, but some are lacking detail. I dunno, this may be for customisation purposes.
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- DRIFTGOD187
im not sure if this has been mentioned or not yet, but when you run out of gas in FORZA you are OUT of gas !!! your car will start cutting out and you will eventually come to a stop and thats it 
not like GT4 where you get to drive around at a limited speed until you get back to the pits, this is just one more comparison that makes FORZA more realistic than GT4. i personally have lost intrest in GT4 after playing this game 👍
not like GT4 where you get to drive around at a limited speed until you get back to the pits, this is just one more comparison that makes FORZA more realistic than GT4. i personally have lost intrest in GT4 after playing this game 👍
- 3,420
What I dont like about forza when it comes to physics is how I can swing a ford GT around a turn without spinning out. Now I have not driven a GT in real life but in gt4, if I swing a GT around a turn with disregard, I will spin out. Now I assume that would happen in real life since the GT does have a fat ass, it has most of its weight in the back and turn too hard should cause a fish tail. forza does tire physics and power displacement right imo, braking distances are spot on but I dont like forza's lack of weight dynamics. Visually, forza's cars dont tilt good enough and they dont seem to transfer the right amount of weight to work against me.
- 2,492
I've been playing Forza pretty much non-stop for the last two days.. I don't know what shocks/confuses me the most -
The fact that there is a game as good, if not better than Gran Turismo 4. or that Microsoft made it. Either way, playing Forza makes me feel better about selling my copy of GT4.
The fact that there is a game as good, if not better than Gran Turismo 4. or that Microsoft made it. Either way, playing Forza makes me feel better about selling my copy of GT4.
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cobragt
because in real life the car is the most neutral supercar you can buy...its designed to be like that (in fact its designed to UNDERSTEER), but push that throttle down and you can and will get that end out, for i do it all the time to wip my rear end out around a tight turn.
go to road atlanta, the first turn from the start line, if you enter about a 100mph (about 10mph to fast in a stock gt) and try to correct it with brakes and walla your end comes out...
If you watch top gear and see the ford gt episode you will see that its one of the most docile supercars to buy, but in acceleration its brutal.
yes the physics is more realistic than gt4(including aero physics, hell especially aero physics)....tuning the suspension in forza is a real art, compared to gt4, in fact in gt4 i could use the exact same setting on almost every car i own and its perfect, forza? shoot, to get each car just anywhere near great, after adding power tires etc, i do have to use my replay telemetry. Example: GT4 for tires, each one will heat up differently yes, but will each tire increase in tire pressure? or different areas of the tire heating up depending on camber and suspension settings? nope. your just used to the gt4 physics engine that when a more realistic engine comes along it feels funny and takes awhile to get used to.
funny thing was as well, in forza once they were tweaking the physics model, they took out a newly entered ferrari model, and after a few laps found it extremely dangerous to drive, so much that they were afraid to drive one in real life. So they spent hours going over code and the physics model to find if something was wrong, how could this world great ferrari feel so wrong. Well one of the developers desided to google the car do some research, and in doing so he found out the real car in real life, is dangerous to drive, just like they felt in forza.
If PD fixes the pokymon car challenge, and the bumber mania(that should have been fixed in gt3) the game will again start to stir my blood, but for now, forza is hands down in my book as the most realistic sim out there....although some car models do look like less time was spent on and a track or two could use some art direction (save the forest tracks those are just gorgeous).
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I've been an XBox owner since the day they came out and *ONLY* bought a PS2 recently because friends convinced me to try GT4 and I'd been searching in vein for the ultimate driving game. I ended up with GT4, PS2 and a DFP ... quite a lot of money for the pursuit of driving happiness.
Then the hype of Forza started and I must admit - being a true XBox fan first and foremost - that I got somewhat excited and yet, in all fairness, still realistic ... maybe FOrza wouldn't knock GT4 off the top spot straight away, but perhaps - with time - they'd be the equivalent and a worthy contender.
So, naturally, I bought Forza.
And I can't honestly say anything other than I fail to see how and why people would compare the two titles. Even with FOrza being on 480i and GT4 on 1080i, Forza's graphics don't even come close ... they are way more arcade like.
The entire interface is more arcade-like and the feel of the 'driving' is ... just ... less.
I fail to see how anyone could possibly say that FOrza holds anything on GT4 ... yeah the damage model is nice, as is the paint scrapes and tire marks ... and yes the AI and online aspects are crucial ... all of these are fantastic ... but the actual racing???? It's ... just a cartoon guys ... it's just not as realistic ... the entire game, the shell, the depth, they're awesome ... but ... well ... I just don't see it, I really don't.
Of course, the XBox not having a wheel equivalent to the DFP hurts the title. But, ah well, it's a damned good start.
Then the hype of Forza started and I must admit - being a true XBox fan first and foremost - that I got somewhat excited and yet, in all fairness, still realistic ... maybe FOrza wouldn't knock GT4 off the top spot straight away, but perhaps - with time - they'd be the equivalent and a worthy contender.
So, naturally, I bought Forza.
And I can't honestly say anything other than I fail to see how and why people would compare the two titles. Even with FOrza being on 480i and GT4 on 1080i, Forza's graphics don't even come close ... they are way more arcade like.
The entire interface is more arcade-like and the feel of the 'driving' is ... just ... less.
I fail to see how anyone could possibly say that FOrza holds anything on GT4 ... yeah the damage model is nice, as is the paint scrapes and tire marks ... and yes the AI and online aspects are crucial ... all of these are fantastic ... but the actual racing???? It's ... just a cartoon guys ... it's just not as realistic ... the entire game, the shell, the depth, they're awesome ... but ... well ... I just don't see it, I really don't.
Of course, the XBox not having a wheel equivalent to the DFP hurts the title. But, ah well, it's a damned good start.
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just wondering though, in gt4 does anybody feel like all the roads are just too narrow in in-cockpit view?
i mean, when im driving some of the roads look barely 2-3lanes wide, and then when i watch the replay i could fit 5 cars+.....maybe its just the way i am seeing it
i mean, when im driving some of the roads look barely 2-3lanes wide, and then when i watch the replay i could fit 5 cars+.....maybe its just the way i am seeing it
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Boost LeeI've been playing Forza pretty much non-stop for the last two days.. I don't know what shocks/confuses me the most -
The fact that there is a game as good, if not better than Gran Turismo 4. or that Microsoft made it. Either way, playing Forza makes me feel better about selling my copy of GT4.
funny thing is i feel the same way, after seeing what msgs did to my battletech universe i was setting myself up for dissappointment in everyway. but thank god it didnt, and actually has surprised me in more ways than one.
like the fact that after i buy a 100k car and spend 100k tuning it, it doesnt have a resale value of 25k but instead 160k!!!! the game actually adjusts its value to what you put into it. especially for online. got a 100k car once done with it sold it online for 280k
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Gabkicksthere is no cockpit view in GT4. Just roof cam (which is why everything looks small because you are high up above the normal driver;'s view) and bumper cam)
oops your right bumper cam...guess its just the way the game views the road.
but one more thing i forgot to mention for cobragt:
the ford gt's rear end is actually somewhat of a nice design, yes its wide, and its suposed to be.
the rearend is wider than the front, meaning that it wants to twist a special certain way, if you draw a normal line from the front tire center where the suspension hooks up then to the rear you will see the tires are off, so in a normal box frame style layout, when the car turns and the body rolls the way the rear weight displaces, is not on the tires but onto the car. This relieves stress on the suspension in the rear and allows for a more neutral setup when turning really hard. but unfortunatly it also has a draw back. Turning grip, while the normal suspension tuning no longer aplies, because the weight no longer transfers to the rear tires but to the car, so the 'normal' grip achieved in desired body roll (yes there is such thing as desired body roll) doesnt happen, so its a little different.
so the cars physics is totally different because of this wider rear end than a normal MR car. But they pulled it off and the car is just a masterpiece that trounces its ferrari counterparts
- 3,420
elite, I believe both forza and gt4 have their short comings in physics. Forza isn't more realistic than gt4, maybe its tire physics are more realistic but its car physics aren't. the GT in forza is pretty easy to deal with compared to its gt4 counterpart. Maybe I'm just using the theory of a sim being harder=more realistic, either way forza was easier for me my first time than gt4 when I first played it.
The GT isn't perfectly made, I can see keeping the rear of the car from overtaking the front is tough and not easy.
In forza weight transfer doesn't seem to be there like gt4.
The GT isn't perfectly made, I can see keeping the rear of the car from overtaking the front is tough and not easy.
In forza weight transfer doesn't seem to be there like gt4.
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cobragt
that is true lots of people confuse realistic with realistic=harder....but in many cars cases this is not it. The ford gt is so easy to drive most "good drivers" that were in the cars did so with little "tight" grip on the stearing wheel. even in the top gear video of the gt being driven hard, the guy is not fighting with the car like he does with many others. or the top gear video of a lambo, the test driver takes a right hand turn at 150mph with one hand on the wheel!!!! if that was in the game everyone would be kicking forza.
here is my take on the physics, or at least on the cars i have driven in real life.
viper: the understeer in gt4 is more present in forza, in forza i actually have to feather the throttle around a turn not just point and go.
wrx: forza at times felt like the normal wrx had a little to much understeer, but soon came to find out i was slowing down to much because on the wooded tracks the sense of speed was more than in gt4's (gt4 had good sense of speed at 150mph+ anything under at you felt at a crawl)
280zx/300zx (own both 280zx completely stripped for road track use): Stock car in gt4 felt like i was in a minivan, when in real life body roll isnt all that much, unless you have blown struts
, gt4 seemed to play that, well since your not sitting in a motion chair we will make up for it on camera angle, sorry even when in a ****ty car my head stays solid, yes my body 'feels' the roll but my head is remaining straight and i always get the level headed road look.....gt4 did abit overdoing of that, liked gt3 a little better in that department, forza had body roll buy in my mind could have used more for some cars and didnt over do it on the restjust because realitiy doesnt automatically equal harder doesnt mean the physics engine isnt more real....just take it from a real race driver who said though at times forza didnt have that sense of 200mph wind in your face feel, the physics was spot on and terryingly close (popular science review of reality vs virtual, check it out damn good read)
and actually on the tire part, the tire physics are the end product of forza's suspension and car model. in fact most of the data being showed on the screen is because of that. so in reality saying that the tire physics are more realistic is in reality saying the suspension car model is more realistic because thats the by-product that forza produces.
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- South Texas
- RRoD#9799827.3
elitewolverine
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- 5,051
- Labounti
Kolyana
My goodness i feel almost the same way. I'm not seeing this super greatness of the gameplay or physics(the game yes but those 2 no). Enthusias phyics seem better. Forzas is just different, not better. It all depends on the driver. If you like going sideways easy then stay away from GT4. The menus are not better than GT4's. Overall car selection is not better the 'physics visuals' are very arcade like, not the actual physics but the movement of the cars and the front wheels turning angles. Anyne who says they'll never play GT4 again isnt a real racer, just a casual gamer.
About what Amar was saying about the digital imput, hes right the stick doesnt feel analogue at all. and when you watch a replay the wheels dont turn smoothly but in stages. This may be a steering aid for controllers but i wont know cuz I'll never play this with a wheel.
The Ai: will slow down if behind you but i was run off the road and brutally pushed around in my $400k car by a $660k car a few times like PGR2's AI, they only knows you are there if they are directly behind you.
just my $0.02.
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- GTP_Div
elitewolverine
You just described the sense of speed...The faster you go, the "narrower" the road become. It's a known fact.
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LaBounti
yeah that's one of my gripes too. the steering is too twitchy so it's hard to stay smooth. that's also the reason why many of the cars break loose so easily. (violently upsetting the balance every time you try to be gentle). GT4 has a more gradual feel that is more intuitive. not as fun, but smoother.
Better for replays I guess. not actual driving.
I have to try the wheel to see if it cuts down on this problem.
- 5,051
- Labounti
kinigitt
When you drive slow or at normal road speeds the steering is too fast. It feels like PGR2 at times but with realistic car behaviour.
Black95Z28 what makes it more fun. The online play, the decals, Ferrari Porsche or the tracks? The actual racing feels no different than any other racing game.
I have to say GT4 and Enthusia are more fun for me just becuase of the DFP. I dont like the lock to lock in 1 second in Forza with the controller. The 575M doesnt sound as ferocious as it was in PGR2. The sounds isnt any better than GT4, If anything the engine sounds seem like they are 64kb mp3s. I'm talking about the quality not the acual sounds Try the R34 Skyline GTR for example it sounds much better in GT4. The Vanquish is another example. FM has better sounds at lower quailty, I guess that makes them even.
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cobra: GROW UP KID. You sound like a twelve year old who just got breast fed by his momma...
- 4,004
- Croatia
Just to say that I appologise if any of distinguished members of this site has felt offended by my words in past few days. It has been harsh from me, but there was no other way to start the real discussion of bad-sides of the game.
I still stand firmly behind everything I said about the game, but it is stricly IMHO and noone should feel that I'm being person-offensive on any way. All was going towards MS and fact they&ve released a title thet does not justify the AAA mark in technical and game-design side whatsoever.
Still, nice to see that majority of my points are getting justify day by day. Hopefully, all the criticism toward Forza - that was misteriusly lacking from almost every review that appeared so far - will make the FM team (which is certanly reading this and another forums very carefully) to think about the downsides of this game.
Hope that time will show the main reasons of Forza being so technicaly and game-design-wise full of flaws.
I still stand firmly behind everything I said about the game, but it is stricly IMHO and noone should feel that I'm being person-offensive on any way. All was going towards MS and fact they&ve released a title thet does not justify the AAA mark in technical and game-design side whatsoever.
Still, nice to see that majority of my points are getting justify day by day. Hopefully, all the criticism toward Forza - that was misteriusly lacking from almost every review that appeared so far - will make the FM team (which is certanly reading this and another forums very carefully) to think about the downsides of this game.
Hope that time will show the main reasons of Forza being so technicaly and game-design-wise full of flaws.
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Div is back
no this also happens at lower speed, in gt4 all it does is give a great blurr effect at high speed giving you that sense of tunnel vision...
and that too also depends on the driver and where is eyes/concentration is at.
when i do 140 down a straight in real life in my car tunnel vision goes in and out depending on what im looking at and what im doing with my eyes....
even at a dead stop some of the tracks just feel that way, maybe if i can get my computer to see my digicam i can post a pic to show you what i mean
I also have a problem with the jerky controls in Forza. Seems to be a lot dead zone space when using the analog thumb stick as well. I can move it pretty far before it effects the car. Guess my question is....has anyone used a wheel for Forza yet? (even at the GDC) just wondering if a wheel will smooth it out. I am having a hell of a time with the thumb stick, feels unnatural to me.
I've played on live with people who are using wheels. None using the fanatec yet. But if you just watch their driving it is ALOT smoother...(yes even with the cheap mad cats/nascar wheels). There adjustments are hard to notice, but if you finesse the analog stick, you can even convince wheel owners you're on one(a wheel)...
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- Snaykinn
- Snaykinn
Kolyana
Thanks for typing out what I've been to pre-occupied to say. One thing that really bugs me about the game is the braking and occasional engine bogs. I drive with all the aids turned off most of the time, the those two things are really starting to bug me.
First is the braking - now, I know slamming on the brakes will NEVER produce the control that is needed to tackle any moderate or worse type of corner - but I'm really starting to not like how the brakes lock if you pull the right stick (in my case) or the trigger all the way down. Finding that correct pull that engages the brakes fully before lockup is too hard to find, so I usually end up braking too early or way too lightly. In actual driving, you will feel that point before lockup in every bit of feedback that the car gives you. In GT4, the game "dumbs" it down for you by applying the max level of pre-lockup braking that can be made (provided that you are around the correct braking point - otherwise, you'll seriously understeer).
The engine bogging is another sore spot for me. I notice that when I collide with another car, the engine bogs a little, or if I'm braking before downshifting - the engine bogs (similar to what happens when you brake, but do not depress the clutch pedal). This is one of my minor annoyances as I can't think of any way around it other than to omit the bogs or include a clutch button. The engine bogs on car-to-car (side-to-side) impacts really bothers me, while the the engine bogging on braking does so to a lesser degree.
Now, I do applaud MGS for trying to make a racing game that is, by its foundations, different than the GT series; but when you are taking something as big as this into "uncharted waters," you're going to have to expect some hits AND misses (much like Prince of Persia: The Darkness Within).
What I thought was great with Forza was the fact that it had damage, though implementation could have been a bit more severe (or detrimental) for me. The body kit stuff is a much welcomed addition to the "serious" racing titles, as is the money spent getting the Ferrari and Porsche licenses (I guess Nintendo didn't want to give the Lambo license up for cheap?).
All in all, I won't be ditching either title (and Enthusia, once I pick it up) but I am of the opinion that Forza needs one or two iterations (and faster loading times) before it gets up to the GT series level (of course, this ONLY my opinion) - but's a very good start.
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