GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]

[dunkee]

The whole Forza demo thing was BS...found it here. Turns out it's just the trailer.

 

[Ruf CTR]

But the demo was rumoured to be on the Halo 2 disc.... So maybe it's still true....

 

[tha_con]

Well if you read the ign preview from september, he clearly states that forza's physics are more forgiving than GT...if this is the case with the final build...well that's still to be seen.

And again, I seriously doubt that it was a 40% complete demo...especially when the 40% demo you speak of only featured around a dozen different cars...clearly this one had more. As well as other features that were not present in the E3 demo if I remember correctly.

 

[dunkee]

But the demo was rumoured to be on the Halo 2 disc.... So maybe it's still true....

I looked everywhere...even on Halo forums, no one knows a thing. Everyone that knows read it at IGN, and you know IGN's word means $hit.

 

[Ruf CTR]

Well if you read the ign preview from september, he clearly states that forza's physics are more forgiving than GT...if this is the case with the final build...well that's still to be seen.

True, but all the demo's up to now had the assists on, maybe he forgot to mention it, or maybe he didn't even notice.... All the video's show that all assists were on......

 

[dunkee]

I drove Forza to a the gameplay event in the Netherlands, I also played GT4.

Forza is not as good as GT4, I both drove with the assists of! Forza was still very easy to drive while GT4 was much more difficult to controll. Graphics wise GT4 rules over Forza. It feels much more realistic. Damage in Forza was quite nicely done.

I compared the Nissan Skyline GTR in both versions! Skyline on Nurb in GT4 and Skyline on Laguna Seca in Forza.

Best regards,
doblocruiser

ps -> Stick to GT4 👍

Y'all can save your energy and just go back to page 76...already talked about the assists and percentage complete...read above. Two ppl on the same page said they played Forza and said it was arcadey...as well as IGN...but they don't count.

 

[erahk64]

Well if you read the ign preview from september, he clearly states that forza's physics are more forgiving than GT...if this is the case with the final build...well that's still to be seen.

They didn't mention if the assists were switched off. Videos from several games events shows that all assists are on.

And again, I seriously doubt that it was a 40% complete demo...especially when the 40% demo you speak of only featured around a dozen different cars...clearly this one had more. As well as other features that were not present in the E3 demo if I remember correctly.

It's common to add features to a old demo build that works well, especially if only
a few cars/features is added.
It's more work to disable a lot of features they don't want to show in the real version and there is a higher probability there will be faults in the game.

The first pic below is from TGS, the second pic was released before E3 and both has the same very low res texture in the background.
That texture would probably have been replaced with a higher res texture
if it was a new demo build.

And they also had the signs last month. I don't think they would lie about that.

.

 

[tha_con]

Let me state this, my room mate works for a website, and we get preview/review builds of games. And they DO NOT add new features to old builds. It takes VERY LITTLE code to disable menu options, as well as enable them, so I do believe that Forza was MORE than 40% complete, why would microsoft, who is having such a HARD time in Japan, show a half assed build of the game at THIER BIGGEST SHOW.

And I wouldn't be surprised if that WAS the final texture, since there is "so much" else going on in forza...

Look, I don't want to down this game, but do not point out things that hold no validity.

Just about anyone who has played this game has said that it is more forgiving than Gran Turismo...and if you think it's because they forgot to mention the assissts were on...how about you think back to the Old GT series defaults...assists START on and must be turned off...so even if they played a preview of GT4, the assists were on as well...so to say that forza only handled that way because of assists...is rediculous, it's still more forgiving in the physics department.

 

[Lambo88]

Again...I'll believe it when I see it, until then I will stand by my statement that it will be a simple tuner game, that is attempting to be a "simulator" but at heart is only a really decent arcade racer.

How many times do you need to read it: FORZA WILL BE A DAMN RACING SIM, THE POINT OF THIS GAME IS TO BE A SIM, NOT ARCADE. I don't think MS would teel it's a sim and after release a game that sports a handling like PGR2, Burnout or SRS!!!They would lose their credibility and could never gain it back. There a syndrome on this planet:because GT has been alone in his category for so much years, people seem like they can't figure a game could compete with it.No game is unbeatable, bear this in mind.

And for those who say the handling is arcade, well I read a serious source stating he played GT3 a lot and that Forza was more realist than GT3.But does that mean that GT3 was arcadey?No. It was not as real as GT4 will be but it was still way better than an arcade game.

See ya

 

[tha_con]

How many times do you need to read it: FORZA WILL BE A DAMN RACING SIM, THE POINT OF THIS GAME IS TO BE A SIM, NOT ARCADE. I don't think MS would teel it's a sim and after release a game that sports a handling like PGR2, Burnout or SRS!!!They would lose their credibility and could never gain it back. There a syndrome on this planet:because GT has been alone in his category for so much years, people seem like they can't figure a game could compete with it.No game is unbeatable, bear this in mind.

And for those who say the handling is arcade, well I read a serious source stating he played GT3 a lot and that Forza was more realist than GT3.But does that mean that GT3 was arcadey?No. It was not as real as GT4 will be but it was still way better than an arcade game.

See ya

Ahh...a serious source...wow...that's as impressive as this...

I read from a serious source that Forza is a game that is good, but still a little too forgiving on the physics side.."

That statement you made is a grain of salt.

And when I said it's an arcade in reality, I'm talking about the games concept, and slightly about it's handling. They are not aiming to please the Sim crowd, that has become evident with the addition of body kits and the simplicity of the tuning options, it's aimed at the younger generation, and the assists are extremely heavy, which make the game extremely easy to play. At least with GT3 even with the assists on, you couldn't just pick it up and play, etc, granted I know Forza will be a bit more difficult, but the physics will not be on par with that of GT4, and it's irrelevant to compare a NEW game to an OLD game...seriously now.

 

[iceburns288]

BTW, just to spark the FF spoiler thing again (lol), if you converted a... hmm... Supra JGTC car with 500hp, and converted it from FR to FF, I'm sure the spoiler on it would still make a difference. The only change in spoiler effect is in weight balance, because the wheels would act like a fulcrum for a downforce lever...

I know MS wants it to be a sim... but if it is 'too forgiving and arcadey' there is nothing to say it won't be an awesome game. PGR2 and RSC2 were both arcade racers and they both kicked! But if they meant it to be a sim and it isn't.... that's not good for them lol.

Don't forget there is a limit to how much they can damage the cars ingame....

I do agree Forza needs more stuff for more publicity for more sales... we need info! But, like Halo 2, I would expect to see it just before release. People forgot about Halo 2 in the long wait between April and November... the hype is coming back with new info!

 

[kinigitt]

lots of insults and disrespect towards other members QUOTE]

Try to be nice to people, maybe they'll listen to you instead of ignoring you.

I see 2 distinct advantages to this strategy:

1) You could win some arguments that way.

2) You wouldn't sound like such a broken record, since you won't have to repeat yourself so many times to enforce your viewpoint on other people.

 

[tha_con]

BTW, just to spark the FF spoiler thing again (lol), if you converted a... hmm... Supra JGTC car with 500hp, and converted it from FR to FF, I'm sure the spoiler on it would still make a difference. The only change in spoiler effect is in weight balance, because the wheels would act like a fulcrum for a downforce lever...

I know MS wants it to be a sim... but if it is 'too forgiving and arcadey' there is nothing to say it won't be an awesome game. PGR2 and RSC2 were both arcade racers and they both kicked! But if they meant it to be a sim and it isn't.... that's not good for them lol.

Don't forget there is a limit to how much they can damage the cars ingame....

I do agree Forza needs more stuff for more publicity for more sales... we need info! But, like Halo 2, I would expect to see it just before release. People forgot about Halo 2 in the long wait between April and November... the hype is coming back with new info!

To convert ANY supra into an FF car is one, EXTREMELY HARD....you have to change everything from drive shafts to differentials, to the way the engine is seated...

And the downforce would not work well, because the focus of a spoiler is to keep the rear wheels in contact with the ground as much as possible so as to achieve the greatest tire patch, giving better grip, if the rear wheels to not propell the car, then you are simply putting extra pressure on the rear of the car, which in turn will cancel out it's purpose, because you are no longer helping the car gain traction to move, you are simply adding force to it, and the car is now having to pull against the force of the wind.

again, unless the car is highly tuned, FF cars have no need for spoilers, and the way forza looks, it will "tune" the car for you, and I doubt any body part will have significant impact on the way a car handles...if it's just a tad and no one notices, it's still a sell point because it's in the game...you can play the fools if you want, I'm not buying into any of the Forza hype until it's released.

 

[cobragt]

To convert ANY supra into an FF car is one, EXTREMELY HARD....you have to change everything from drive shafts to differentials, to the way the engine is seated...

And the downforce would not work well, because the focus of a spoiler is to keep the rear wheels in contact with the ground as much as possible so as to achieve the greatest tire patch, giving better grip, if the rear wheels to not propell the car, then you are simply putting extra pressure on the rear of the car, which in turn will cancel out it's purpose, because you are no longer helping the car gain traction to move, you are simply adding force to it, and the car is now having to pull against the force of the wind.

again, unless the car is highly tuned, FF cars have no need for spoilers, and the way forza looks, it will "tune" the car for you, and I doubt any body part will have significant impact on the way a car handles...if it's just a tad and no one notices, it's still a sell point because it's in the game...you can play the fools if you want, I'm not buying into any of the Forza hype until it's released.

Nicely said. I found it strange aswell to see a FWD car with a wing. It seems the main focus of foraz is, making your car what you want it to look like; apperances. Most of your casuals fall for that, not saying it's a bad thing but it's kind of casual like if you know what I mean. I dont play sims to dress my car up, I play them to have a realistic driving experience, ala gt4 with the FFB wheel.

 

[kinigitt]

Nicely said. I found it strange aswell to see a FWD car with a wing. It seems the main focus of foraz is, making your car what you want it to look like; apperances. Most of your casuals fall for that, not saying it's a bad thing but it's kind of casual like if you know what I mean. I dont play sims to dress my car up, I play them to have a realistic driving experience, ala gt4 with the FFB wheel.

Oh so I guess BTCC racers, Speedvision world cup racers, and Japanese N1 spec racers put wings on their FF cars to "dress them up"?

Come on guys, make some sense.

 

[tha_con]

Oh so I guess BTCC racers, Speedvision world cup racers, and Japanese N1 spec racers put wings on their FF cars to "dress them up"?

Come on guys, make some sense.

seriously dood, quit going out of your way to try to get at me, read my post again, I clearly stated HIGHLY tuned vehicles use rear spoilers, and their horsepower numbers are a lot higher than a lot of the road cars we might see in forza that are FF. I don't know what your grudge is with me, maybe because i"m not on microsofts nuts and I realize what they actually put on the market, but whatever it is, just drop it and quit trying to lure me out on a bad side.

 

[kinigitt]

seriously dood, quit going out of your way to try to get at me, read my post again, I clearly stated HIGHLY tuned vehicles use rear spoilers, and their horsepower numbers are a lot higher than a lot of the road cars we might see in forza that are FF. I don't know what your grudge is with me, maybe because i"m not on microsofts nuts and I realize what they actually put on the market, but whatever it is, just drop it and quit trying to lure me out on a bad side.

I just suggested you be a little nicer. You obviously choose not to.

It would make reading your posts easier.

And just to be a dick, neither of the cars I mentioned have much power or straight line grunt. They are all limited by class restrictions making big power outputs unlikely unless the base engine is already potent to begin with.

I don't have to lure you anywhere, and I don't hold grudges.

I just see you berating other people everywhere you go, and I commented on it. I don't hate you, I don't want you more pissed off than you already are, so chill.

 

[erahk64]

Let me state this, my room mate works for a website, and we get preview/review builds of games. And they DO NOT add new features to old builds. It takes VERY LITTLE code to disable menu options, as well as enable them.

I have not programmed games but other types of products.
There are big similarities when programming for different types of products.
We have used that method for different products so I think game programmers may use the same method sometimes.
This method can be used when a few features is needed in a existing demo that works well and the demo is going to be presented to end customers.
The only things I noticed they have added in Forza since E3 is some cars and multiplayer.
How much has been added between the preview builds you got ?


There is more work than just disable some menu options when a new demo is created.
Some examples:

* several parts of the game, including parts that were available in the old demo, has probably been modified. Those parts need to be tested again so the game doesn't crash at the games event.

* they want to show some features. The menus may have changed and how to get to the features they want to show may have changed since the old
demo was created.
So they need to do several modifications to show the same features as in the old build and this may create new faults.

I do believe that Forza was MORE than 40% complete, why would microsoft, who is having such a HARD time in Japan, show a half assed build of the game at THIER BIGGEST SHOW.

And I wouldn't be surprised if that WAS the final texture, since there is "so much" else going on in forza...

Maybe the developers don't have the time to create completely new demos and they assume that visitors knows there can be changes in the game since it is not released yet.

Can you show a another pic with a texture that looks that bad.
I'm sure it will be replaced.

Maybe it was a new build in TGS (the pic of the sign is from a another games event 2-3 weeks earlier) but it's a indication that the build may be old since there is "so much" else going on in Forza and it seems to be the same as in the E3 build.

Just about anyone who has played this game has said that it is more forgiving than Gran Turismo...and if you think it's because they forgot to mention the assissts were on...how about you think back to the Old GT series defaults...assists START on and must be turned off...so even if they played a preview of GT4, the assists were on as well...so to say that forza only handled that way because of assists...is rediculous, it's still more forgiving in the physics department.

There are previews that say Forza is more realistic than GT 3 (see my post on page 101 for a couple of examples ).

We are just guessing if they have compared full sim mode since only one preview has mentioned the assists settings (see page 101).
I want to see info about the assists settings in the previews before trusting them,
especially if all hands-on previews are from games events and the videos from the games events shows all assists are on.
And the IGN preview that says Forza is more forgiving and the pic of the sign is from the same games event.

 

[Ruf CTR]

Wasn't it IGN in one of their latest hands-on that said that Forza physics were on par with GT4???

BTW, Gamespot says quite the opposite in their TGS hands-on..... They say it's very unforgiving....

Gamerfeed said that the cars react just like their real-life counterparts....

Taken from CVG:
"An engineer from Ferrari was consulted to model the aerodynamics and experts from tyre manufacturer Toyo gave insider info so that Forza could rock the most complex tyre-to-tarmac system ever seen in a game. Six unique factors including temperature, track surface and weight affect how each individual tyre performs.

The cars feel satisfyingly heavy and attack corners with a tangible sense of momentum. It's realistic, but it's sensible - if you pounce on a bend too quickly you'll end up in a hedge. Just like real life.

And you can make it even more hardcore. Take off Forza's default driving aids and the handling will pull down your pants, bend you over a bonnet, and spank you raw. Gentle squeezes of the brake and throttle are essential to prevent your rear end flipping out and cornering becomes an intense battle between your steering wheel and your squealing tyres.


So it'll be hardcore, but in an accessible and rewarding way. The ultra-accurate handling means you're constantly joyriding on a knife's edge, the customisation lets you personalise your motor more than any other game, and the promising online modes could leave even Gotham 2 stalled on the grid."

Just to show how realistic this game will be.....

 

[yeti]

FEEL THE FORZA: HANDS-ON WITH XBOX'S GT4 BEATER

We pull on our racing overalls and put our foot to the floor with Microsoft Game Studios' Forza Motorsport

16:51 You are what you race. That's Forza Motorsport's catchphrase. It reckons your choice of motor says a lot about you. Honda Civic with a fat spoiler? Boy racer. Porsche GT2 tuned to perfection? Petrolhead. Or how about a monstrous McLaren F1? You're a horsepower whore.
Whatever your favourite set of wheels, it's likely that you'll be able to hook it up in Forza. Over 200 cars from over 60 manufacturers (including Nissan, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz and the licenses Gran Turismo's never been able to get, Ferrari and Porsche) will flash their fibreglass knickers at you - from hatchbacks to muscle cars to super-powered race beasts.

Once you've picked your ride, you'll be able to modify it to your exact tastes by adding a huge range of licensed afterparts, tuning everything to perfection, then making it look extra smooth with sweet paintjobs, loads of decals and liveries, and Fast and the Furious-style vinyls.

Pride and Joy

The result of all this customisation is that you feel much more attached to your lovable lump of metal. It's a brilliant twist to Gran Turismo and Project Gotham's obsessive car collecting, since once you own that elusive dream car you can stamp your mark all over it - literally.

Forza includes an impressive decal design feature that lets you create your own logos, text and artwork then stick it anywhere you want. While other racing games give you four layers to muck around with, Forza will give you up to 100. It's the ultimate personalisation of your ride and you'll even be able to trade your designs online.

The idea is to give you complete freedom to express yourself through your car. You are what you race, remember? It'll be brilliant in single-player mode, but when you take your motor online you'll have much more of an identity. Imagine being able to tune and customise your Enzo before you race it against opponents in PGR2 - Forza's giving you that chance!

Take the Racing Online

The final online modes haven't been confirmed yet but the developers told us that they want to 'blow Gotham 2 online support off the track'. With the added tuning and customisation features Forza could be seriously fantastic in multiplayer. And, of course, now Gran Turismo 4's online mode has been dropped from the upcoming December 14 European release and delayed until a new GT game next year, Forza won't have to go head-to-head with it online.

We got a chance to play four-player system link Forza and already it feels great. Collisions and crashes are far more costly than in Gotham - to both racers - so it's important to keep your distance and only make a move when you're 100% sure it'll gain you a place.

Dancing Dynamometers

Forza's not just about mucking around with spanners and spoilers and smoking other racers online. This baby's gunning straight for Gran Turismo's share of the hardcore racing market, and the development team have put loads of work into ensuring the car physics and handling engines are as realistic as possible.

An engineer from Ferrari was consulted to model the aerodynamics and experts from tyre manufacturer Toyo gave insider info so that Forza could rock the most complex tyre-to-tarmac system ever seen in a game. Six unique factors including temperature, track surface and weight affect how each individual tyre performs.

The guys at Microsoft Game Studios even showed us the diagnostics graphs they use to keep an eye on how the handling engine is performing during play. Circles squirmed, lines jumped, and insanely long numbers shot up and down. It looked thoroughly impressive but could have been smoke and mirrors.

Full Throttle

As soon as we got a hold of the joypad we discovered that's not the case. The depth and sophistication of Forza's physics means your motor's handling feels more realistic than ever.

This level of accuracy dribbles from the joypad like sump oil as you chuck a car around the track. Every press of the accelerator or tickle of the brake stuffs feedback into your brain, letting you know exactly how far you can push your motor.

The cars feel satisfyingly heavy and attack corners with a tangible sense of momentum. It's realistic, but it's sensible - if you pounce on a bend too quickly you'll end up in a hedge. Just like real life.

And you can make it even more hardcore. Take off Forza's default driving aids and the handling will pull down your pants, bend you over a bonnet, and spank you raw. Gentle squeezes of the brake and throttle are essential to prevent your rear end flipping out and cornering becomes an intense battle between your steering wheel and your squealing tyres.

There are rewards for your bravery, though: you'll earn more money from winning races if you remove the driving aids, and you'll know you've got the skills to handle the world's most unruly motors.

The Home Straight

So it'll be hardcore, but in an accessible and rewarding way. The ultra-accurate handling means you're constantly joyriding on a knife's edge, the customisation lets you personalise your motor more than any other game, and the promising online modes could leave even Gotham 2 stalled on the grid.

Forza Motorsport is due for a European release in December, putting it wheel-to-wheel on the grid with Sony's Gran Turismo 4.

We'll be keeping a close eye on this automotive showdown and bringing you all the latest info.

If you fancy checking out more screens and Forza's high-speed trailer, click here for all your Forza needs.

I found this preview of Forza on the C&VG website...

C.

EDIT: Just noticed the above post that quotes some of this text... But this is the whole article...

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Accept no substitutes!

Gran Turismo 4 all the way!

Then again, we can't really compare until both are released. Everyone hypes-up the XBox saying it's far better than PS2 (likewise GameCube ...!), but when it comes to GT4 PD know the level of detail required to make a brilliant game. Whatever this Forza thing is (forgive my ignorance ...), it's most likely to bite the dust once GT4 is released.

 

[erahk64]

Wasn't it IGN in one of their latest hands-on that said that Forza physics were on par with GT4???

Maybe it's in a different IGN preview they said that.
The IGN preview I mentioned is from the European Game Stars Live event.

 

[erahk64]

Here is a another new Forza preview. It's interesting for the ones that hasn't read all
previous pages in this thread.

http://www.gamingtarget.com/SectionViewer.aspx?ArticleID=2569&SectionID=1599




.

 

[Arwin]

The Forza game has potential, but to me it all comes down to this:

"With a team comprised of those who made games like Project Gotham, Rallisport Challenge, Morocross and Midtown Madness, there’s no lack of experience behind the wheel."

What wheel? You should feel the weight of the car under braking in the Driving Force Pro in the BMW Demo when you're braking coming just out of a 200+ km/h turn on the Nurburgring and you have to get down to 80+ km/h for the turn right after it, with barely enough time to put your car in a straight enough line not to lose it completely while braking. The back of the car tries to overtake you left and right, and you feel that in the wheel. Combine that with the physical strength required to turn a car just the right amount in such a high-speed turn, and it's downright stunning.

No game that isn't going to give me that will ever do for me again. Although Forza looks promising, it will have to wait until they include support for such quality Force Feedback before it really gets my attention. I will of course still buy the game, because I'm a car fan and reviewer, and I'll want to know exactly how good the game is, how it compares to GT4 and if it has promise for a 2nd edition. But until this Force Feedback issue is settled, no amount of realism is going to convince me when I'm forced to play with some cheap ass rumble wheel or with the Xbox controller, and I'm pretty sure that like the last 2 years, 90% of my playing time will be spent on the GT series.

 

[erahk64]

The Forza game has potential, but to me it all comes down to this:

"With a team comprised of those who made games like Project Gotham, Rallisport Challenge, Morocross and Midtown Madness, there’s no lack of experience behind the wheel."

The Forza team consists of more than 100 people.
There is probably people in that team that has experience from
creating sim racers.

 

[avenger]

To convert ANY supra into an FF car is one, EXTREMELY HARD....you have to change everything from drive shafts to differentials, to the way the engine is seated...

And the downforce would not work well, because the focus of a spoiler is to keep the rear wheels in contact with the ground as much as possible so as to achieve the greatest tire patch, giving better grip, if the rear wheels to not propell the car, then you are simply putting extra pressure on the rear of the car, which in turn will cancel out it's purpose, because you are no longer helping the car gain traction to move, you are simply adding force to it, and the car is now having to pull against the force of the wind.

again, unless the car is highly tuned, FF cars have no need for spoilers, and the way forza looks, it will "tune" the car for you, and I doubt any body part will have significant impact on the way a car handles...if it's just a tad and no one notices, it's still a sell point because it's in the game...you can play the fools if you want, I'm not buying into any of the Forza hype until it's released.

Ah, actually spoilers are very important, even in FF cars. The point of them is to keep every wheel gripping during braking and cornering. High speed stability is also improved.

Yes, I know you said 'highly tuned', but any race oriented car, no matter what drive layout (it could be jet propelled for argument's sake) is going to need spoilers front and back. Unless you want your FF car fishtailing like throttle-happy hotrod, you still need a rear spoiler. Sure, the rear wheels aren't driving, but they still brake, keep the tail straight and grip in corners.

Most racing cars are quite light compared to their roadgoing brethren, and light weight is a disadvantage in high speed situations, because the car will float on the road. It needs proper aerodynamics - of which downforce is a part - to help stabilise the car.

Even F1 cars (at around 500kg of pure carbon fibre flyweight goodness) need downforce to keep that little chassis of theirs gripping the road in corners and braking.

What I find most impressive about this is the underbody 'trays' that are built into racecars these days. Not only do the cars have front and rear spoilers, but these trays create a downforce effect as well.

I believe even FF race cars are being built with undertrays.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

The Forza team consists of more than 100 people.
There is probably people in that team that has experience from
creating sim racers.

Arwin's quote was from the article you posted

Also here's another interesting one:

I’m not going to throw around terms like "Gran Turismo Killer" because it’s not,

 

[erahk64]

Arwin's quote was from the article you posted

Also here's another interesting one:

I know, but I don't think they meant there is only people from Project Gotham, Rallisport Challenge, Morocross and Midtown Madness working with Forza.
There is probably other people working in the team or people that helps the team but doesn't work full time with Forza if there is no experience of sim games in the
team.
It's common to get people with experience if the team is lacking experience, especially in a big project like this seems to be.
But I don't know if they have done this when working with Forza since it has not been mentioned in articles I have read.

And I agree with the article. Forza is not a GT killer since it is on a another console
and the games will have features that is missing in the other game.
I assume you read the rest of the article.

 

[Arwin]

I know, but I don't think they meant there is only people from Project Gotham, Rallisport Challenge, Morocross and Midtown Madness working with Forza.
There is probably other people working in the team or people that helps the team but doesn't work full time with Forza if there is no experience of sim games in the
team.

My sole point here was 'behind the wheel', not their previous experience. With decent Force Feedback support, I'd have been playing even PGR2 a lot more than I do now (held my interest for about 2 weeks).

 

[kinigitt]

My sole point here was 'behind the wheel', not their previous experience. With decent Force Feedback support, I'd have been playing even PGR2 a lot more than I do now (held my interest for about 2 weeks).

When is that damned DFpro coming out here? (Canada)

I really need to see if this is all just hyperbole or the real deal.