GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]

[Tacet_Blue]

I assume you read the rest of the article.

I certainly did Its a pretty fair article, it even acknowledges that simulation racing is a niche market and games like Burnout 3 and Underground 2 may be more popular on the X-box than Forza. It takes a while to build up a following for a game like the GT series enjoys.

@Kinigitt: I thought you could already get the DFPro for Canada. There is no version for each region, just the power supply must be suitable. I don't know what you guys use but I thought it was the same as the US.

 

[tha_con]

Ah, actually spoilers are very important, even in FF cars. The point of them is to keep every wheel gripping during braking and cornering. High speed stability is also improved.

Yes, I know you said 'highly tuned', but any race oriented car, no matter what drive layout (it could be jet propelled for argument's sake) is going to need spoilers front and back. Unless you want your FF car fishtailing like throttle-happy hotrod, you still need a rear spoiler. Sure, the rear wheels aren't driving, but they still brake, keep the tail straight and grip in corners.

Most racing cars are quite light compared to their roadgoing brethren, and light weight is a disadvantage in high speed situations, because the car will float on the road. It needs proper aerodynamics - of which downforce is a part - to help stabilise the car.

Even F1 cars (at around 500kg of pure carbon fibre flyweight goodness) need downforce to keep that little chassis of theirs gripping the road in corners and braking.

What I find most impressive about this is the underbody 'trays' that are built into racecars these days. Not only do the cars have front and rear spoilers, but these trays create a downforce effect as well.

I believe even FF race cars are being built with undertrays.

GOOD GOD PLEASE LET IT STOP.

I SAID RACE CARS. I understand that stock cars come with stock spoilers, I am speaking about larger wings that create larger amounts of downforce for race cars, they are NOT SUITIBLE nor are they very effective on roadcars...

I Race SCCA every sason, tear my car apart at least twice a year, engine bay to the engine, everything...I seriously do not need anyone explaining anything to me, I know this already, but I realize that a spoiler, that is not stock, that is larger, and intended for lighter racing vehilcles is there for downforce, what I said is that it is not usefull on a road car...and there is no place to argue that it is becasue the downforce is too much and not necessary, any tuner/driver will tell you that.

 

[livemusic]

Ok, this spoiler subject is getting boring already. Let´s move on now please.

 

[dunkee]

The Forza team consists of more than 100 people.
There is probably people in that team that has experience from
creating sim racers.

There's so many "maybe's" and "probably's"....all assumptions that just make your imagination run wild That article was great though, it actually gave some good info...but we need to see & play not read. We know GT is gonna be good cause we played it, saw hundreds of vids & pics, see in-game progress, and they have their rep...what does Forza have?

You can post all the "written" facts you want but until we see the actual tuning and hear more people on these boards say that the game handles like a real sim, it will just be hype...right down to the trailer. That guy talking sounds like something from a movie. You always see those movie trailers w/ the cool-talking narrator....makes the movie sound sick! Then you watch it...and it sucks balls Don't believe the hype ppl.

Hopefully in December they'll back themselves up and I'll buy myself and XBox for Christmas but right now they don't have anything on GT4.

 

[Pak]

Yeh, the spoiler thing has nothing to do with Forza. I mean, Forza can implement it realistically and spoilers will have a bad effect on FF cars like you say tha_con.

 

[dunkee]

Ok, this spoiler subject is getting boring already. Let´s move on now please.

I thought they were gonna drop it when tha_can posted this:

"And let's just end it on the FF spoiler stuff. I commented on his praise of how body kits will affect cars, then when cornered he shot back with something about spoilers, when in reality it's irrellivent to his arguement."

Spoilers will add down force, leave it at that.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Spoilers will add down force, leave it at that.

Thats what they do
....but if you look at those Forza tuning menus, there is no downforce setting, just "Corner" or grip level, so will a spoiler be that accurately implemented or will it just improve grip...spoilers effect grip at different speeds... and have almost no effect in a hairpin.

Ok you can throw 40% complete at me, but aerodynamics and downforce (Front and Rear) should not be lumped together with grip.

 

[F1GTR]

I just saw the forza video and i ain't impressed sounds good though

 

[Cosmic]

I just saw the forza video and i ain't impressed sounds good though

If the video sucked beacuse it didn't impressed you then how can it even sounds good?

 

[livemusic]

If the video sucked beacuse it didn't impressed you then how can it even sounds good?

Say what? He said he didn´t like the video(how the game looks), but he liked the sound of the game.

 

[cobragt]

I really agree with arwin, with the FFB wheel, gt4 will have the bigger advantage in the driving experience. There's nothing better than feeling your ride and the track.

 

[kinigitt]

Thats what they do
....but if you look at those Forza tuning menus, there is no downforce setting, just "Corner" or grip level, so will a spoiler be that accurately implemented or will it just improve grip...spoilers effect grip at different speeds... and have almost no effect in a hairpin.

Ok you can throw 40% complete at me, but aerodynamics and downforce (Front and Rear) should not be lumped together with grip.

That is true.

We'll just have to wait and see the full working game in action to differentiate the real features from the "features" on a bulleted list.

I wouldn't write the game off just yet either...

 

[Cobra S]

not sure if its been said before(can't read all the 2,000+ replies ), but forza will just be another wannabe GT\'GT killer'... sure it could be good, but i dont think it'll be comparable to GT3 even, let alone GT4.

 

[code_kev]

Not comparibile to Gt3, don't make me laugh, Gt3 was a boring piece of crap. It got beaten ages ago.

 

[Cobra S]

Not comparibile to Gt3, don't make me laugh, Gt3 was a boring piece of crap. It got beaten ages ago.

by what game(besides GT4) exactly?

edit: let me guess, you're gonna say project gotham racing\2... bwahahahaha

 

[kinigitt]

by what game(besides GT4) exactly?

Oh boy.

Here comes the pain.

 

[code_kev]

Pgr2, Rallisport 2, GPL, live for speed, outrun2, burnout 2 + 3, pro race driver 2, moto gp2, GT2 etc, need I go on? Forza and GTR will make mince meat of GT3, and will give Gt4 a run for it's money (especially GTR from what I've played and seen).

And yes, I'll say pgr2 because it's about 20 times more fun then gt3 as it has what's known as a sensation of speed.

 

[kinigitt]

Pgr2, Rallisport 2, GPL, live for speed, outrun2, burnout 2 + 3, pro race driver 2, moto gp2, need I go on?

And yes, I'll say pgr2 because it's about 20 times more fun then gt3 as it has what's known as a sensation of speed.

You'd have to be masochistic to post that in this forum.

 

[code_kev]

I know, I'm gonna get a rampant fanboy having a go at me in a moment

 

[kinigitt]

I know, I'm gonna get a rampant fanboy having a go at me in a moment

At least it's a form of entertainment.

Anyway, this is off-topic, but there's a new GTR preview vid up on BHM.

http://www.bhmotorsports.com/movie/409

I wonder if Forza's damage will be comparable?

 

[code_kev]

Oh it will be funny, some one is now going to pretend that Gt3 is in some way FUN! HO HO!

"I rather enjoyed going at 3mph in Gt3, the crap AI was thrilling, as was the crap selection of cars (all skylines), oh yes, and the 300 laps on boring tracks, fun fun fun, whato"

"the farty whine of the engines, the bad clipping, the rubbish handling, GT3 ROCKED! Oh and the AMAZING rally mode, like REALLY being there"

Can anyone say "tarted up GT2 with less of everything"

GTR will be the racing daddy, 56 cars on track at once man!!!!!!!!

👍

 

[cobragt]

GTR is like a ghost in the media, might be good but not alot of people know of it but pc sim nutts. Gt4 will be better than GTR, GTR is limited and it wont be as entertaining as gt4. 50+ cars is awesome but damn, why just one variety of sport cars

 

[Caligula1]

Nope GT3 is a pile of kaka

That's why I only spent around.......oooooooh 1,000 plus hours on it, solid weekends, worshiped every single mile my cars clocked up.

Project Gotham 2 - yup got it and played online to around the 2 million credits point - vehicle sound like vacuum cleaners and handle about the same.

Burnout 2 and 3 - burnout 1 was kinda fun in a simplistic sort of way and yeah it was fast, but hey its arcade - not realistic or anything and soon grew boring.

Burnout 3 - what a joke - they ruined it by taking out the checkpoints - half the fun was trying to get to a checkpoint before the time ran out!

Outrun???????? - Yeah I kinda liked it when I was about 10 👎

So until GT4 comes out - yep GT3 IS STILL THE BEST RACING GAME!

That "fanboyish" enough for you Code Kev?

 

[code_kev]

Cobra, I think 56 cars on track at once is pretty exciting...dunno about you.

From what I've played of both games, the feeling of speed and danger was far greater in GTR.

Caligula, your wrong in just about every point you made. Welldone.
Outrun 2 is great fun, and it does one thing that GT3 didn't, it was FAST AND FUN.

 

[kinigitt]

Nope GT3 is a pile of kaka

That's why I only spent around.......oooooooh 1,000 plus hours on it, solid weekends, worshiped every single mile my cars clocked up.

Project Gotham 2 - yup got it and played online to around the 2 million credits point - vehicle sound like vacuum cleaners and handle about the same.

Burnout 2 and 3 - burnout 1 was kinda fun in a simplistic sort of way and yeah it was fast, but hey its arcade - not realistic or anything and soon grew boring.

Burnout 3 - what a joke - they ruined it by taking out the checkpoints - half the fun was trying to get to a checkpoint before the time ran out!

Outrun???????? - Yeah I kinda liked it when I was about 10 👎

So until GT4 comes out - yep GT3 IS STILL THE BEST RACING GAME!

That "fanboyish" enough for you Code Kev?

How does a vacuum cleaner handle? Must be pretty tight!

 

[code_kev]

He must have a vac cleaner with a V8 engine in it. CORRRR.

 

[cobragt]

56 cars on track is great, no doubt about that. Feeling of danger Come on code, get serious From the newer gt4 vids I have seen, the sense of speed is spot on. I dl a vid of gt4 yesterday, it showed like 3 different tracks, it's in the vid thread above and there was footage of the nurb, omg it looked so damn fast. The track is narrow but damn, it was fast! It showed another track and it looked damn fast aswell. I believe the sense of speed in gt4 is right but the feeling of danger eh code That nurb portion of the vid looked tricky and scary. But, I believe gt4 will be better than GTR, 56 cars on track or not, gt4 will still be better.

 

[Caligula1]

Horses for courses and all that

Depends what you're after in a game really.

Besides - I'm an old git so the sedate pace of GT3 is just about right for me ROFL

PGR2 is the best game out of the ones you mentioned, but jeez I hated those blooming cone challenges - it was a great game online - but very limited offline - they should have let you create races like in the original Metropolis Street Racer

 

[tha_con]

...code_kev...I've really been trying to lay off of you...seriously...

but sometimes your arrogance gets ahead of you.

Okay, first I ask that you become familiar with the times, for the time it was released, GT3 was a good game.

And to directly compare and arcade racer to a simulation racer is stupid, and PGR's sense of speed is not too thrilling...simply because it is arcade style. GT3 had a nice sense of speed, but from the first person view, why anyone would want to race from any other view is beyond me.

Also, You talked about how you beat GT3 "ages ago" and I surely would hope so, seeing as it came out three years ago...but if you think Forza will offer more game time (single player, time to beat it, therefore online does not count) then you are mistaken, I'm sure that you will probably be able to clear forza twice before you clear GT4, GTR, or a vast majority of the other racers out there.

Point is, you just bash and bash and bash...I have said negative things about Forza, but they are based around facts and the press, if I have made any assumptions it's from things that were hinted at press releases and previews. You are living up to hype to much, you need to realize to take things at face value and you will be more satisfied, but since you hype things up so much (forza, GTR) then of course you will be dissappointed, only now you run into the problem...in three months when you get it, if you don't like it...you have to eat your words...it can go both ways.

But for now, based on the information available, I will reserve my judgment and say that Forza will be a good game, but will not be a heavy hitter nor a contender for the GT series until it hits it's third iterration, because by then they will have the noteriety and credibility to be a serious simulator, but right now they are shooting in the wind in a market that already has a name they trust. Forza will be good, but on it's first try it will not knock the competition, nor will it pass it.

 

[kinigitt]

Horses for courses and all that

Depends what you're after in a game really.

Besides - I'm an old git so the sedate pace of GT3 is just about right for me ROFL

PGR2 is the best game out of the ones you mentioned, but jeez I hated those blooming cone challenges - it was a great game online - but very limited offline - they should have let you create races like in the original Metropolis Street Racer

MSR made me very angry.

Let's not talk about MSR.