GT4 WRS Week 49 Results

[Thirdeye]

So close to gold! Congrats to everyone, I can't believe I actually would've gotten 2nd place in Div2 I'll post my replay later this afternoon.

 

[Jake]

Even though I was slow it was my personal best on dirt. I liked watching all the dust kick up and roll off the wheels in the replay:

 

[Laurence5905]

Well, here's my replay... Even though I came in last in the standings, it's NOT the slowest time out there... Faster than Jake73's Silver time in Div 2, actually... The way the divisions split up this week, I wind up last in 3rd division however... Oh well... (Didn't someone suggest getting rid of the divisions? Just posting Gold, Silver and Bronze for all entrants? I kind of like that idea now... Would've been 5th from the end, rather than dead last.)

View attachment 31.006.max NTSC Format. Time: 1'31.006

I damn near lost it at the end, which I'm sure cost me a good bit of time -- went across the finish line sideways, in fact. But it was right down the middle of the track, so I didn't hit anything... Pretty funny to watch, actually... Enjoy!

 

[Smallhorses]

Ok, here it is, as promised earlier..... MAX Drive NTSC format.

 

[Thirdeye]

Here's my replay!

 

[Smallhorses]

Just been watching some NTSC replays....

👍 and a Green Flag go to :-

Laurence5905 Interesting finish technique there! Very wiggly!
jake73 Clean lap 👍, although you lost a ton of time in the left/right before T2 by not drifting the turns.
celeron_266 Great lap! Well deserved Div2 win!
InsaneRacer Also a great lap, and worthy winner of Div3, even beats Div2 winner if we're going to get picky! Maybe we'll be seeing you in Div2 soon! You got very close to the wall on the last bend! Had several viewings, and it's definitely clean though!
Luxy Oh. My. Word. !!!! You get even closer to the last wall than InsaneRacer did, but once again several views at different angles, and it's definitely clean! It never ceases to amaze me when I watch a really good GT3 or GT4 rally driver in action, how slowly you're actually travelling at the apex of some of the bends! e.g. the right turn before T2, your speed drops to 14mph!!! Just proves slow in = fast out!

Still working on homie montana's replay, since I copied 6 replay files over all at once, and his & someone elses had a naming conflict, not sure which though..... Just going to wipe all of them off the MAX Drive and download his replay alone.....should be back in about 10 minutes or so with another 👍 hopefully! Might as well do Thirdeye's while I'm at it too.

 

[Smallhorses]

Ok, worked that time!

👍 and Green Flag now go to :-

homie montana A good, clean, steady lap which sees you safely onto the Div2 podium by just a single 1/1000th of a second!

Thirdeye 🤬 me, you're close to the fence on the inside of the right turn before T2! But I've been back over it with a microscope, and there's no contact at any point! An excellent lap, which merited a second and third view from different angles just to see the car almost go into a barrel-roll as you're landing the jump by T3! It's well naughty, and definitely worth a look!

 

[MisterWeary]

Okay, watched the PAL replays (all 2 of them )

* holl01 - 1'21.895 - 👍
* zdenko - 1'25.224 - 👍

Both had some close calls but both were clean. Holl01 was his usual freak-tastic self...super nice lap man and zdenko, you had me till T2 then I ran away from you, hard week to get everything right in the one lap. Nice work 👍

 

[VTRacing]

Watched MisterWeary's replay.

It's all clean. 👍

Same deal with Holl01's 👍 (Damn DS2 users.... )

Here's my replay (PAL format) with a very close call on the last wall after I hashed-up the turn-in for the last corner. I'm quite certain it's clean because there's no speed drop, but if someone could check it that would be super.

 

[MisterWeary]

I'll have a look in a few minutes...I was curious to see your lap...I'll be back........................................................

.....................hmmm...not sure about that last corner, here are some photos of the point in question:



It's just the tip of the mudguard that touches ever so slightly, so whether that counts or not?!? It's an excellent lap though particularly since you're using a DFP, that'd be hard work...then again I guess you do rally drive for real

Sorry bout that buddy, I reckon no other point at which I could have paused the camera would have been able to detect it.

 

[VTRacing]

Have you found a speed drop in the analyzer that indicates a touch? Is the photo evidence enough to call it a touch?

I have no problem with DQ'ing the lap if that photo of the mudflap touching equals a wall-touch. But I figured that the whole point of the rule regarding wall touches was that they could be used to adjust your line or bounce you back onto the track etc, and such a wall-touch would show up in the analyzer as a sharp downward spike in the speed trace. Which I couldn't see when I checked the data.

Could another PAL user (flat-out?) check this and give their opinion.

Anyway MisterWeary, no matter the outcome, thanks for checking the replay. 👍

Oh, and to see how much wheel-work I was doing, turn on the steering wheel display in the options menu, it's not as bad as you think.

 

[Casio]

I found the replay analyser not very accurate in rallies. Checking another Replay during the week, coincidently on that exact same corner, I saw a speed drop of 0.1mph. However, If you look carefully through out various parts of the lap, you will also see very small speed drops when the car is no where near the walls.

I assume this speed drop occurs at the point where the car is at a high enough angle that it starts losing speed. As most people came out of that last corner acutely sideways (I almost came out of it backwards), it really is very hard to say.

I would never be sure if Mud-flap = Wall touch. If I recall, door mirrors pass through walls too without being registered as touch?

 

[MisterWeary]

I didn't detect any speed drop whatsoever and in my opinion the corner of a mud flap clipping a wall hardly constitutes a "dirty" lap but I thought I'd better post it.

Oh and I did have the wheel inputs displayed when watching your replay, it looked like some pretty nifty work, I'll stick to the DS2 I think despite the serious arthritic pain I've got in my right thumb

 

[Luxy]

Oh and I did have the wheel inputs displayed when watching your replay, it looked like some pretty nifty work, I'll stick to the DS2 I think despite the serious arthritic pain I've got in my right thumb

Not to take away from VT's wheel work, but it's not really harder than the DS2 (imho). Personally, I never turn the wheel much past 90-degrees (which I know because my left hand never leaves the wheel). If you have to get fancier than that, you're doing something wrong ...

There's a question that's been bugging me for a while now ... I know a lot of people don't like rallies in GT4, and a lot of people say that it's very unrealistic. Unforunately, I've never had the chance to play the Colin McRae or WRC games (they weren't released for PS2 in North America ) What is it about rally in GT4 that's unrealistic?

 

[fasj6418]

Not to take away from VT's wheel work, but it's not really harder than the DS2 (imho). Personally, I never turn the wheel much past 90-degrees (which I know because my left hand never leaves the wheel). If you have to get fancier than that, you're doing something wrong ...

There's a question that's been bugging me for a while now ... I know a lot of people don't like rallies in GT4, and a lot of people say that it's very unrealistic. Unforunately, I've never had the chance to play the Colin McRae or WRC games (they weren't released for PS2 in North America ) What is it about rally in GT4 that's unrealistic?

1- tracks... rally should be ran in stages, just like in real life...
2- the phisics are just horrendous. too much slippery, they didn´t quiet simulate the gravel/dirt aspects... just ask VTR who has some experience with rally... too much sliding to be taking it seriously...
3- in the races, you race the clock, not another car, like they put when you enter a rally race in GT4...

that´s about it, the biggest reason is number 2. takes away the fun of rally in GT... imo

 

[Luxy]

1- tracks... rally should be ran in stages, just like in real life...
2- the phisics are just horrendous. too much slippery, they didn´t quiet simulate the gravel/dirt aspects... just ask VTR who has some experience with rally... too much sliding to be taking it seriously...
3- in the races, you race the clock, not another car, like they put when you enter a rally race in GT4...

that´s about it, the biggest reason is number 2. takes away the fun of rally in GT... imo

I totally agree with you on #1 and #3, but I'm not sure about #2. I was just watching one of Mr. P's replays from GT3's Swiss Alps. Basically full-throttle the whole time. GT4 feels pretty reasonable to me ... Brake early, watch your line, etc. I don't have any real-world experience though.

 

[Laurence5905]

1- tracks... rally should be ran in stages, just like in real life...
2- the phisics are just horrendous. too much slippery, they didn´t quiet simulate the gravel/dirt aspects... just ask VTR who has some experience with rally... too much sliding to be taking it seriously...
3- in the races, you race the clock, not another car, like they put when you enter a rally race in GT4...

that´s about it, the biggest reason is number 2. takes away the fun of rally in GT... imo

I would have to agree -- the "slide" factor on dirt/gravel seems to be a bit too high in GT4... Feels like they got it closer to reality on the snow/ice though... But they just didn't increase the friction enough on the dirt/gravel when they were creating the physics engine...

I'm impatiently awaiting GT5. More realistic physics (supposedly) and REAL on-line racing! I'm afraid it's going to be a LONG wait, though.

 

[Laurence5905]

Just been watching some NTSC replays....

👍 and a Green Flag go to :-

Laurence5905 Interesting finish technique there! Very wiggly!

Thanks... It was the DFP I was driving with that caused it -- I drifted too hard through that last turn, and the wheel snapped back when the car hit the straight. So I was fighting the wheel the whole way towards the finish line. I over-corrected, then over-corrected the over-correction, etc., etc... Definitely cost me a good bit of time there, I'm sure... But I finished, and the lap was clean (even if it didn't look so good at the end) so I had to submit it. I had so few clean laps that week, and that was the fastest one, despite the shenanigans at the end...

 

[Tedehur]

22 submissions and 12 replays posted within 48 hours.


And thanks to those who checked some replays.
I'm away from home this week (took my PS2 with me but the TV set in the hotel room has no video connector to plug it ), and I'll check VTRacing's replay saturday.

 

[VTRacing]

I totally agree with you on #1 and #3, but I'm not sure about #2. I was just watching one of Mr. P's replays from GT3's Swiss Alps. Basically full-throttle the whole time. GT4 feels pretty reasonable to me ... Brake early, watch your line, etc. I don't have any real-world experience though.

Actually, after doing last week's race I'm feeling a little more charitable towards rallying in GT4. But it still doesn't model the behaviour of a rally tyre on dirt very well. It actually feels more like when I drive the rally cars on a dirt track (like an autocross track) where you have to use road tyres.

With a rally car on proper rally tyres, usually the best way to slow down is to throw the car sideways while braking. The tyres then dig into the surface and the car can stop remarkably quickly. And under power, even if you have wheelspin the tyres will tend to dig into the surface to give you grip.

In GT4 rally, as fasj said, the car seems to skate across the top of the gravel too easily, whereas in real life generally you lose a lot of speed once you get sideways, which is useful in some situations and not so useful in others.

Colin McRae rally and WRC are not perfect either in modelling rallying, being a bit too simple. Richard Burns rally comes closest I suppose but still in that game the car is not stable enough; it's too easy to roll. CMR has the best pace-notes though.

And an interesting fact about rallying on ice and snow is that the grip levels for a rally car on ice are higher than for a rally car on gravel! This is because the tyres have hundreds of tungsten studs implanted into the rubber to grip the ice; but counter-intuitively they only give traction when the wheel is spinning.

 

[Luxy]

Thanks for the opinions, guys. Just curious about what I was missing

 

[SHigSpeed]

Watched MisterWeary's replay.

It's all clean. 👍

Same deal with Holl01's 👍 (Damn DS2 users.... )

Here's my replay (PAL format) with a very close call on the last wall after I hashed-up the turn-in for the last corner. I'm quite certain it's clean because there's no speed drop, but if someone could check it that would be super.

I had two such mudflap incidents on my fast lap. Zero speed loss on either and I had posted to the main thread about the legality during the week. ZIP responses so I called it good. I experimented with intentionally hitting walls and definitely noticed speed loss so I'd say you're good. Incidentally, a funny one is instantaneous speed GAIN! Noticed on one wall hit that I gained like 20 mph in one frame! Talk about rebound! :^)

-SHig

 

[Laurence5905]

Hey Luxy, I just downloaded your replay. VERY nice technique, in my opinion... I compared my replay to yours -- your steering wheel is so steady compared to mine. I'm all over the place! Definitely learned a lot from watching your replay... It's the fastest one that I can watch, seeing as how I can't watch PAL replays... Excellent lap, bud! I'm quite impressed...

 

[Smallhorses]

Thanks... It was the DFP I was driving with that caused it -- I drifted too hard through that last turn, and the wheel snapped back when the car hit the straight. So I was fighting the wheel the whole way towards the finish line. I over-corrected, then over-corrected the over-correction, etc., etc... Definitely cost me a good bit of time there, I'm sure... But I finished, and the lap was clean (even if it didn't look so good at the end) so I had to submit it. I had so few clean laps that week, and that was the fastest one, despite the shenanigans at the end...

that's what I'd expected!
Anyway, noticed you've had a look at Luxy's replay, being the fastest NTSC one, and all, but since I managed to verify 7 out of 8 submitted NTSC laps, I was wondering if you'd do me a favour and Green Flag the 8th for me?
I'm not allowed. It's my replay!!!

 

[shockwaveracing]

I found the replay analyser not very accurate in rallies. Checking another Replay during the week, coincidently on that exact same corner, I saw a speed drop of 0.1mph. However, If you look carefully through out various parts of the lap, you will also see very small speed drops when the car is no where near the walls.

i wonder who that was...

here is my replay anywayz... and i believe the mudflap wasn't as close as VTR's was.

 

[Casio]

No. The closest I could get a picture to yours was about a foot. I'm calling yours clean!

EDIT: Assuming it's the one I checked earlier in the week.

 

[shockwaveracing]

yeah that is the same one you checked for me during the week champ... 👍

 

[Luxy]

Hey Luxy, I just downloaded your replay. VERY nice technique, in my opinion... I compared my replay to yours -- your steering wheel is so steady compared to mine. I'm all over the place! Definitely learned a lot from watching your replay... It's the fastest one that I can watch, seeing as how I can't watch PAL replays... Excellent lap, bud! I'm quite impressed...

Hehe, thanks lawrence I've often noticed in fast racer's replays, they always it seem so smooth and easy. I'm glad I fit into that category for once I'd really love to see Dan's replay too ... is anyone making videos of the winning laps anymore?

 

[Laurence5905]

Anyway, noticed you've had a look at Luxy's replay, being the fastest NTSC one, and all, but since I managed to verify 7 out of 8 submitted NTSC laps, I was wondering if you'd do me a favour and Green Flag the 8th for me?
I'm not allowed. It's my replay!!!

Sure, no problem... I just downloaded it -- give me a few minutes to check it out...

 

[Laurence5905]

I was wondering if you'd do me a favour and Green Flag the 8th for me?
I'm not allowed. It's my replay!!!

Just viewed it -- totally clean...

Everything's very visible -- I viewed it from several different angles, and I saw nothing that even came close to being dirty... Always at least a foot away from walls and fences, so no need to make a judgment call on this one -- it's clean without any doubt in my mind...