GT4 WRS Week 60 : "Three Diamonds Valley, stage II"

[Laurence5905]

Ooh, this sounds like fun!

@Dr_Watson: Why take yourself out of the competition this week? There really aren't any areas (I am going by memory here, so maybe I'm wrong) in which one would gain an advantage from using the concrete areas... Race it anyway! Stay off the concrete and show us what REAL racing is like! (Actually, in real life, they usually allow the concrete areas -- most of the time, anyway...)

@Bigracer: I have yet to see a WRS race where a harder-than-required tire compound is illegal... Softer is not good, but harder is just fine as far as I know... I've done that several times (mixed tire compounds, with a harder tire on the front or rear as necessary) and Flat-Out has never had a problem with it before...

 

[Super T]

I have yet to see a WRS race where a harder-than-required tire compound is illegal... Softer is not good, but harder is just fine as far as I know... I've done that several times (mixed tire compounds, with a harder tire on the front or rear as necessary)

I've done this on a couple of occasions myself. IMHO as long as it's a harder compound you're using, not a softer one, you're reducing the grip levels, albeit only on one end of the car, so you're not gaining an unfair advantage.

It does say in the first post medium tyres so I guess Cyril should have the final say on this matter.

Still not had time to run this one yet, (damn you Tourist Trophy!) I'll be back with some splits later.

 

[Floor3013]

i did a pretty bad Time. this is soon to be known as the H-A Time:
T1:0'39.181
T2:1'16.425.

i havent been put into a division yet(awating positioning)but as soon as i do ill work all weekend on my Real Time(itll be tons better)

 

[Super T]

First five laps, only three of which were clean.

T1 0'38.326
T2 1'14.033

Looks like I'm around the right sort of pace for T1, keep getting the last right hander before T2 wrong, I can't be losing two seconds in that one turn though?

Been using +17 (331 BHP) for now until Cyril says otherwise, RM tyres all round and standard gearing.

Edit after next post: Colby.

 

[MisterWeary]

Stick with +20 SuperT, Cyril's original post had the maximum power incorrectly stated. Both NTSC and PAL have equal power settings 👍

Board Updated

 

[z-reserve]

Lol, that's the way I would've done it most likely... Just floor it the whole time and make sure you drift enough to make only the rear sides of the car hit the walls. It's pretty fun tossing the car around between the turns to make it so you don't get a penalty like that...

I found that it was better to throttle control and concenter on my turn exit speed to keep momentum. 💡

 

[Jake]

T1 : 0'38.335
T2 : 1'13.226

 

[Laurence5905]

Here are my first splits for this week:

RM tires, no aids, 250 gears

T1: 38.578
T2: 1'14.478

I can easily see another second, if I can just get a few more corners correct...

 

[Tyre King]

I'm in this week too!

Took a week off for New York, don't mind the track in a road car but the F1 is too fast for my old and knackered reflexes.

Gimme the F1 round Tokyo or Cote, and I would be in. But not New York

Hmmm?? GVS reverse being the right way round? Not sure about that!

In over a year of running here, never has anyone been punished/penalised for running with harder compound tyres than specified in the first post. So if you want to use RH's on the rear, feel free to do so IMO


Later with some splits, after a qualy session for JGTC and maybe some more 2 wheeled action. (Just started to play Tourist Trophy, it's like crack, instantly addictive! Especially if you are a R/L biker)

Neil

 

[Floor3013]

right ive improved thoroughly!

T1:0'37.625
T2:1'13.187

 

[steven]

lap improved to 39.594 and 1.16.143.
fully agree with laurence about ny and the knuckles. just too fast.
tried out rsh and rh tyres. they give a nice oversteer but i'm all over the place coming out of tight corners. so it's back to rm for me.
might give it a try with back rsh and aids on ...

like your comic sans laurence!

 

[Casio]

Word of advice. I wouldn't bother with the harder compounds, it ultimately slows you down.

The car does have an understeering tendency, but you just have to drive around it. The car will become more neutral/oversteery under lift-off and braking. So what you have to do, is turn in, and then slam on the brakes. Then it will tighten it's line.

If you just brake in a straight line, using the conventional cornering method. Then yeah, you'll understeer into the walls.

 

[Tyre King]

After 3 laps only, no D/A's, mediums all-round.

T1 38.999
T2 1'14.569

Fun car to drive, as Casio said it turns in nicely on lift-off or braking.

Neil

 

[Dr_Watson]

Ooh, this sounds like fun!

@Dr_Watson: Why take yourself out of the competition this week? There really aren't any areas (I am going by memory here, so maybe I'm wrong) in which one would gain an advantage from using the concrete areas... Race it anyway! Stay off the concrete and show us what REAL racing is like! (Actually, in real life, they usually allow the concrete areas -- most of the time, anyway...)

fine... here:
T1 37.480
T2 1'12.014

i was a wee bit loaded when i posted that last comment... in retrospect i was being a bit harsh.
It just puts me off since GV has been my favorite GT track since GT1, and in this iteration they tossed in those concrete bits. Which, when abused do save a ton of time. More forward, but even in reverse they can be quite heavily abused.
Like on the first entry to the Esses, you can swing way wide onto the concrete for braking, and take the first turn faster, AND be better setup for the right hander... allowing that one to be taken faster as well.
Also the rhythem section before T2, just after the sharp right post tunnel... (i wish GT's turns were named :/ ) you can swing wide on the left out onto the concrete, then cut the double apex on the concrete.
If you want an example of how much time it saves and how silly it looks to deliberately drive off-track... watch the BC6 qualifier replays where everyone abuses the concrete to its full potential.

oh, and for the most part, in *real* racing (i'll use F1 as an example), concrete bits like these are there for safety, not speed.
going outside the kerbing is off-track and if you were to gain a position cutting over the concrete you'd have to give the position back or be black-flagged.

 

[TimBrad]

heres mine so far, not too bad, enjoying it

T1: 39.783
T2: 1.16.872

 

[Floor3013]

even though im not divisionised, i set the highest T1 and the 4th Highest T2!

 

[MisterWeary]

Well Floor...perhaps you should ensure you have a maxdrive and maybe purchase a leash for that ego while you're there

My splits:

T1: 0`37.865
T2: 1`12.879

Board Updated

 

[Laurence5905]

fine... here:
T1 37.480
T2 1'12.014

Knew I could push you into joining the race.

Like on the first entry to the Esses, you can swing way wide onto the concrete for braking, and take the first turn faster, AND be better setup for the right hander... allowing that one to be taken faster as well.

Yeah, that's true -- I was thinking that piece wouldn't be helpful in the reverse direction, but I guess you could slide to the right and get a better line into those S-turns.

oh, and for the most part, in *real* racing (i'll use F1 as an example), concrete bits like these are there for safety, not speed.
going outside the kerbing is off-track and if you were to gain a position cutting over the concrete you'd have to give the position back or be black-flagged.

Definitely true -- you can't pass outside the track like that. But simply driving on the concrete isn't illegal. Doesn't disqualify you from the race, or even get you a black flag... The WRS using the concrete to disqualify the lap completely is less like real life than allowing it, in my opinion... I guess that's really what I was trying to say in my previous post...

 

[sausages]

New splits (although my final time only improved by 100ths - didn't go tight enough on the hairpin after T2. As usual, I was too busy watching my split times and missed my braking point )

37.665
1'12.456

I must agree with Dr.Watson too (in theory) - The concrete areas around bends on real-life tracks are primarily there for safety. If you cut them and gain an advantage you must relinquish that advantage immediately or face penalties (in F1 at least - don't know about rules in other series).
However, I don't really see anything on this track which would fall into the "blatant corner-cutting" category, with the possible exception of the uphill right before T2, and even then you would only gain 100ths from cutting it to the maximum.

I've been watching the discussion about race 1 of BC6 - http://www.granturismox.net/vb/showthread.php?t=14890 - on Deep Forest Reverse which we ran here recently - where they are talking about allowing all concrete areas including the massive concrete slab in the right after T2. That's a clear case of invalid/unrealistic racing IMO, whereas on this track i think it's marginal.

 

[Dr_Watson]

Definitely true -- you can't pass outside the track like that. But simply driving on the concrete isn't illegal. Doesn't disqualify you from the race, or even get you a black flag... The WRS using the concrete to disqualify the lap completely is less like real life than allowing it, in my opinion... I guess that's really what I was trying to say in my previous post...

well... since we're hot-lapping solo, you can't physically pass another car by going off-track. But gaining any time advantage by *cheating a corner* in a hot-lap competition effectively allows you to finish infront of somone else, which is the exact same thing as making a pass by cutting a corner when on-track together.

My main argument in situations like this is that the track is irrelevant, what the surface is made of is irrelevant. If its outside the lines, or outside the kerbing... its run-off and not part of the track.

 

[STLbarcelona5]

Just had an hour session. By best ended up with:

38.063
1' 12.749

I'm really mad at that T1 though. Right as I left the tunnel, I hit the revlimiter in 3rd. Otherwise it would have been 37.xxx.

Now that I think of it, I've never gotten a sub 38. Grr. At least I can make up with it by the time T2 comes around. My T1 --> T2 time is 3rd fastest (so far).

 

[Super T]

Now that I think of it, I've never gotten a sub 38. Grr. At least I can make up with it by the time T2 comes around. My T1 --> T2 time is 3rd fastest (so far).

With T2 times like that a sub 38 T1 can't be far off, I've had one already, (only just, 37.988.) I'm struggling to get sub 1'14 T2's?

Just need to put a lap together where I'm hitting all the apex's right, my laps are still a bit messy this week, been playing TT so I'm having to convert all the racing lines back from bike lines to car one's?

 

[STLbarcelona5]

With T2 times like that a sub 38 T1 can't be far off, I've had one already, (only just, 37.988.) I'm struggling to get sub 1'14 T2's?

My whole problem is that I am just SO confused with the two turns right after the fast left hander. I can blast through that, and then the tunnel is no problem at all. It's just that I have yet to figure out the best compromise of exit speed versus line, turn in points, concrete?!... etc.. I dunno, I'll get it eventually . . .

 

[Dr_Watson]

My whole problem is that I am just SO confused with the two turns right after the fast left hander. I can blast through that, and then the tunnel is no problem at all. It's just that I have yet to figure out the best compromise of exit speed versus line, turn in points, concrete?!... etc.. I dunno, I'll get it eventually . . .

the concrete is for suckers.
Eat the inside kerb, it helps the car rotate.
IIRC i was using 270 gearing... take the first one in 2nd then up to 3rd in-between; tap the brake and lift on entry but say in 3rd for the second one, since you can go wide on the exit; where in the left hander you want to hug the inside to be setup to take the right @ > 50mph
staying in high gear for the right hander is good for ~.2 btw.
when i first tried it i pulled almost a full car length on my ghost.

 

[STLbarcelona5]

the concrete is for suckers.
Eat the inside kerb, it helps the car rotate.
IIRC i was using 270 gearing... take the first one in 2nd then up to 3rd in-between; tap the brake and lift on entry but say in 3rd for the second one, since you can go wide on the exit; where in the left hander you want to hug the inside to be setup to take the right @ > 50mph
staying in high gear for the right hander is good for ~.2 btw.
when i first tried it i pulled almost a full car length on my ghost.

Great. Thanks for the info. I'm sure a lot of other people appreciate it too.

Actually, I'm doing almost all of what you're saying, with a few differences here and there. I think my problem is that I break WAY too much before the right hander before the tunnel, and I switch down to 2nd there again. And yeah, the whole hugging the curb for the tunnel, easily the fastest way through there. Unless you hit it as if it were a double apex, but by the time you catch up with the car that was hugging it the whole time, you're at the next tunnel.

 

[Dr_Watson]

i never mentioned the tunnel?
twas just talking about the esses you were having troubles with.
the tunnel is just a simple late apex sweeper. no need to hug anything.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

37.9 - 112.9 .... yes, racing anyways

 

[Tedehur]

I'm finally back from our customer, and I finally have some time to quickly look at the WRS.
As all the experienced WRS-ers mentioned, the power issue is a typo (I took the value from the Excel spreadsheet that contains most of the cars powers and weights, and this one was wrong). We run at +20% this week, whatever the final power is.
And harder compounds are always allowed unless specifically forbidden in the race specs.
Next week is gonne be hard for me too (5 days away from home, and never sleeping twice in the same town), but then it should settle down and I should have more time for us.

 

[steven]

I'm finally back from our customer, and I finally have some time to quickly look at the WRS.

welcome back cyril.

And harder compounds are always allowed unless specifically forbidden in the race specs.

good to know. i already understood so much from the old hands.

Next week ... but then it should settle down and I should have more time for us.

great. so we'll have updated rankings soon i hope
please read the pms i send you regarding alternate submission checking for the golden boys.

 

[KLR142]

Definitely true -- you can't pass outside the track like that. But simply driving on the concrete isn't illegal. Doesn't disqualify you from the race, or even get you a black flag... The WRS using the concrete to disqualify the lap completely is less like real life than allowing it, in my opinion... I guess that's really what I was trying to say in my previous post...

Question is, are they allowed to use the concrete, run-off, safety areas during qualifying to get a better fastest lap? Because that's basically what we're doing here...

well... since we're hot-lapping solo, you can't physically pass another car by going off-track. But gaining any time advantage by *cheating a corner* in a hot-lap competition effectively allows you to finish infront of somone else, which is the exact same thing as making a pass by cutting a corner when on-track together.

My main argument in situations like this is that the track is irrelevant, what the surface is made of is irrelevant. If its outside the lines, or outside the kerbing... its run-off and not part of the track.

I absolutely agree. Amen to that. 👍