GT5 Latest News & Discussion
- Thread starter gamelle71
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- cooldawn | GTP_Vincent_Vice
- cooldawn
How did we start assuming that GT5 will include GTPSP and GT4 tracks?
See that's a problem for me...lists like that assume tracks from GT PSP and GT4 will be included yet not seen or hinted at. As of now we've actually seen 16 tracks with 25 variations so there's still a few tracks to be revealed as well as rally stages that would probably be classed as a 'unique course'. With that in mind I still think that spreadsheet is very optimistic. To add you say Kaz has probably one new real and one new fantasy track to be revealed for GT5 which would, including configurations, probably be 18 circuits with about 30 variations.
Ultimately there must be more than one each because 'officially' the number of GT5 revealed tracks is nothing like what people seem to be expecting.
Basically what I read is drastically different to what I've actually seen...the figures don't match the evidence. Now don't get me wrong fella...I hope to god I'm absolutely wrong and that GT5 has all those tracks on the disc but evidentially it's nowhere near that amount of unique courses.
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- United Kingdom
@ Famine, first, up let me thank-you for going to Germany and putting in some effort to gather some news. I appreciate this.
I'm more inclined to believe you made that part up in your own mind and that some of the "locations" have 3+ layouts with a reverse (i.e. 6 or more variations). Unless PD has gone absolutely crazy with circuit layouts (which is definitely possible) then the 70 variations would need to include reverse.
The reverse variants may not have to include real world racing circuits (Monza, Suzuka, etc - which are typically avoided by PD) but there may be reverse variants of karting, street & rally stages and we know there are 7 locations for those to-date, even though we don't know how many layouts there will be at those 7 locations. For example, I would laugh if Piaza del Campo only had that basic karting loop and a reverse option. It's far more likely that PdC will have several layouts and reverses!
Yes, I expect to see one "new" fictional location come through, but it wouldn't be "new" to GT. That it would be new to GT5 is the point here... I fully expect to see another *one* of GT4 / GT PSP's locations converted to GT5 (lets say it is Deep Forest)... This completely throws into doubt all of the other fictional GT4 / GT PSP locations as possibilities. Rightly so too! I have no idea how PD would remodel all of these, it would take too long given that KY has stated it takes 2 years to model just one!
I'm pretty certain I saw something many moons ago where KY stated the old fictional locations would be difficult to convert and that we'd actually see more real world locations instead.
I think we've seen the best of the locations so far and barring maybe another 5 (to 10 max) reveals, all that remains is to see the variations in these locations.
Tell us in what instance and how exactly did KY + Translator-san state "excluding reverse"?
I'm more inclined to believe you made that part up in your own mind and that some of the "locations" have 3+ layouts with a reverse (i.e. 6 or more variations). Unless PD has gone absolutely crazy with circuit layouts (which is definitely possible) then the 70 variations would need to include reverse.
The reverse variants may not have to include real world racing circuits (Monza, Suzuka, etc - which are typically avoided by PD) but there may be reverse variants of karting, street & rally stages and we know there are 7 locations for those to-date, even though we don't know how many layouts there will be at those 7 locations. For example, I would laugh if Piaza del Campo only had that basic karting loop and a reverse option. It's far more likely that PdC will have several layouts and reverses!
You should note that here you are actually seeking to contradict yourself.
Yes, I expect to see one "new" fictional location come through, but it wouldn't be "new" to GT. That it would be new to GT5 is the point here... I fully expect to see another *one* of GT4 / GT PSP's locations converted to GT5 (lets say it is Deep Forest)... This completely throws into doubt all of the other fictional GT4 / GT PSP locations as possibilities. Rightly so too! I have no idea how PD would remodel all of these, it would take too long given that KY has stated it takes 2 years to model just one!
I'm pretty certain I saw something many moons ago where KY stated the old fictional locations would be difficult to convert and that we'd actually see more real world locations instead.
I think we've seen the best of the locations so far and barring maybe another 5 (to 10 max) reveals, all that remains is to see the variations in these locations.
Seeing as only 4 options have been shown so far, we'll have to go with that for now.
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- 87,906
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
We didn't. Shirakawa thinks so and I have no reason to assume he's either correct or incorrect.
Well now, that's not wholly true.
Of the tracks we've seen including those from demos and, hem hem, prologues, six have come from previous iterations of Gran Turismo. The tracks, for reference, are:
* Autodromo Nazionale Monza (new to series)
1 Circuit de la Sarthe (GT4)
* Daytona International Speedway (GT5P)
* Eiger Nordwand (GTHD, GT5P; hidden undriveable GT2 track)
2 Fuji International Speedway (GT4)
3 High Speed Ring (GT1, GT2, GT4)
* Indianapolis Motor Speedway (GT5TT)
* London City (GT5P)
* Madrid Curso del Sol (new to series)
4 Nuerburgring (GT4)
* Piazza del Campo (new to series)
* Rally Toscana (new to series)
* Rome (new to series; previous Rome circuits in GT2, GT3, GT4)
* San Galgano (new to series)
5 Suzuka (GT4)
6 Tokyo R246 (GT3, GTC, GT4)
These are the only circuits we've seen in anything with a "GT5" in its description to date - as you point out, 16 unique tracks. There are 27 "variations" of those (three La Sarthes, two Daytonas, four Fujis, two Indys, three Rings, three Suzukas and one of everything else) and, with reverse versions included, 33 discreet tracks.
Now, in order for "more than 20" unique tracks to be the case, we have a minimum of five more tracks to be revealed and a maximum of eight (25 tracks would be "almost thirty" - check the back of older GT game boxes). This would, at the same rate, generate 35-41 "variations" and, with reverse versions, 43-62 tracks. This belies any form of "more than 70" number - we're not even close, even including the reverse tracks.
Corollary to this, it'd also mean we already know two-thirds of all the tracks in the final game. Discounting the 800ish standard cars carried over from GT4/PSP, what proportion of all the cars in the final game do we already know? Seventyish of the two hundred premiums - that's only just a third. How many tracks do we know compared to Shirakawa's tentative list? 16 of the 49 - only just a third. That's a bit of a reach, but I seriously doubt we know two-thirds of the final track list.
I can't come up with any better numerical solution to "if you count them up individually, there are more than seventy" than the one Shirakawa has generated. I doubt we'll see all the GT4/PSP track list, but I'm still erring on 20ish real circuit locations, 70ish total circuits including short versions and 100ish total circuits including reverse versions.
They didn't state that - and I have explicitly stated that they didn't and that it is only what I think (based on reasoning in my response to VV).
Piazza del Campo is a traditional horse-racing circuit around the village square ("Piazza del Campo") of Siena. I doubt there will be more than one way to race it.
No, there is no contradiction - Kazunori was talking of circuits wholly new to GT5. Please read the interview we did, linked to from the GTP blog.
When asked which circuit he'd turn from a fantasy GT track into a real track, he paused for some time and answered "Deep Forest". When I said "Trial Mountain", he told us that he'd have difficulty answering as he didn't want to reveal any new circuits from GT5 that he hadn't intended to reveal yet. I asked if that meant there was a new circuit that could be better to him than Deep Forest - he didn't commit to an answer.
That's probably true. Though how you'd get from twenty of those to seventy tracks, given that real circuits have no reverse and typically only two versions, I don't know.
As before, we've seen a third of the new cars. I doubt we've seen more than a third of the tracks.
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- GTP_african_kat
https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-5-weather-track-editor-confirmed/
It's worth noting that Shuhei Yoshida, president of SCE worldwide studios said that GT5 will have more tracks than previous iterations
It's worth noting that Shuhei Yoshida, president of SCE worldwide studios said that GT5 will have more tracks than previous iterations
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That could easily be "cured" by a Black GTP polo, however Mr.Faminator what I'm wondering is, what possessed you to wear gym shorts to the recorded segment let alone to meet Yamauchi-san!??
I know it was hot that week in Germany (Rally Deutschland was also taking place) but damn boy, you should have started a "Donate to get Famine some trousers" thread!
Hairy legs aside, the impressions segment really made me optimistic despite the fact that Andreas was practically announcing a tragedy when he was talking about interiors.
Still seems the cars were a bit "bouncy" when they came head to head, not that I've ever seen 2 COTs in a head on collision.
The shadows issue among other things were explained well, and it makes sense that PD wouldn't let that past quality control.
So great job guys, GTP is on the MAP! Maybe PD will sneak in a GTP livery somewhere??!
That's nothing my guy, Paul Ricard High Tech Test Track, is one Circuit with 179 layouts.
Paul Ricard HTTT Layouts.
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- 87,906
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
That could easily be "cured" by a Black GTP polo, however Mr.Faminator what I'm wondering is, what possessed you to wear gym shorts to the recorded segment let alone to meet Yamauchi-san!??
I know it was hot that week in Germany (Rally Deutschland was also taking place) but damn boy, you should have started a "Donate to get Famine some trousers" thread!
Famine
I can't tolerate things in contact with my knee - especially when the knee bends and the trousers stretch over and against the kneecap.
In any case, they're actually board shorts, but I have huge thighs and genitals. I gave my cv to Kazunori. That's how large my genitals are.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
- 87,906
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Big thighs. Biiiiiig thighs. Pako's upper-arm size. Little wonder I was always good at running and swimming
But it's a very recent thing - about a week before I went to Cologne, I was actually fine in jeans, but I could barely get the pair I took with me on and I didn't have any analgesia with me.
I had no idea it'd result in my legs becoming as big an internet phenomenon as Translator-san
But it's a very recent thing - about a week before I went to Cologne, I was actually fine in jeans, but I could barely get the pair I took with me on and I didn't have any analgesia with me.
I had no idea it'd result in my legs becoming as big an internet phenomenon as Translator-san
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Thanks for making it clear that we don't actually know whether the 70 variations include reverse. I'd like to see that as being the next direct question aimed at KY as a yes / no response will reveal much!
Please take a look at this photograph.
The "village square" you refer to is of course - the location in its entirety. Note the complete lack of tarmac & complete lack of anything in the centre of the square. PD added the tarmac, tents & other stuff to make the simple "ring" kart layout we saw in GT5. There is absolutely nothing available stating that there won't be other kart / tarmac layouts at this location. For example, in addition to other layouts, it would be possible for us to see a miniature High Speed Ring layout for kart racing at this location. Each of those layouts may have a reverse variant.
Thanks I just read "the interview" again (https://www.gtplanet.net/gamescom-the-yamauchi-interview/).
What's stated there doesn't confirm anything about how many GT4 / GT PSP locations there will be in GT5.
About turning fantasy tracks into real tracks, I am more inclined to believe that KY didn't commit to an answer because his answer would actually give away what the one / two new fictional circuits to GT5 are. If there happened to be over 10 fictional locations in GT5 (as per GT4 / PSP), it wouldn't have hurt to give up one or two further examples.
About the interview... I don't see any literal transcription of anything Translator-san / KY said and I want to quote a specific part: "His next answer was complex - the team haven't revealed anywhere near all of the tracks yet and there may be a fantasy GT5 track which exceeds Deep Forest in his estimations, and Trial Mountain in mine".
So what were KY's / T-S's exact words in this "complex" answer? The problem with this part of the interview is that there's no transcription and we're reliant on post-interview attempts to ratify & make sense of what was said. Please don't think me ungrateful, but where it says "track" - could that be down to your interpretation? Did KY really mean "many more layouts"? Nurburgring GP is obviously different to the Nurburgring Nordschleife, so it's key to talk about locations, variations and which variations include reverse... Nothing official talks about "tracks" and we shouldn't try to ratify things that way either.
To ask you directly, could there have been a mis-translation or misinterpretation here? It would have been nice to have the transcription.
A few more real world locations could dramatically increase the number of variations.
Here is just an example - using the 7 locations that we know to-date (not world racing circuits)...
Toscana (Rally circuit): 5 point-to-point layouts plus reverse = 10 variations.
Piaza del Campo (Karting circuit): 4 layouts plus reverse = 8 variations.
London (normal, short, long): 3 layouts plus reverse = 6 variations.
Tokyo R246 (normal + short): 2 layouts plus reverse = 4 variations.
Madrid (normal, short): 2 layouts plus reverse = 4 variations.
Eiger Nordwand: 1 layout plus reverse = 2 variations.
Rome (normal, short): 2 layouts plus reverse = 4 variations.
That's a total of 38 possible variations in just those 7 locations. If you ask me to justify why have 5 point to point layouts or 4 kart layouts - I can't, other than to say that to make good use of the WRC license and Kart options there needs to be a lot more variety than just 1 layout plus a reverse.
If you add the real world racing circuits (another 12 odd locations to date) you will get at least the normal layout plus 1 alternate (24 variations). I believe we may well see 3 variations for some of the real world circuits which could be up to 36 variations. Let's call it 30 variations just for peace-sake... Add the 30 to the 38 and you have 68 variations. We're still due at least one or two more locations at least - which would easily boost the number of variations to over 70.
Not going to get into the whole cars thing and how many we've seen, but I'll just say this... 1 car takes 6 months to model. 1 track takes 2 years to model. It's apples and oranges to try and compare - so please don't.
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- dissidentcook
Big thighs. Biiiiiig thighs. Pako's upper-arm size. Little wonder I was always good at running and swimming
But it's a very recent thing - about a week before I went to Cologne, I was actually fine in jeans, but I could barely get the pair I took with me on and I didn't have any analgesia with me.
I had no idea it'd result in my legs becoming as big an internet phenomenon as Translator-san
I think your knees have become the new Victorian ankle, o' Knee-san.
I understand that type of pain all too well. So many things that can go wrong with joint/knee cap section of the leg, and too many hurt like hell when a little pressure is applied.
Heal well and may the doctor never need to slice you open. That is actually meant to be far less gloomy than it sounds.
- 5,018
- Val d'Orcia,Tuscany
- hardvibes
- ACR HardVibes
And where exactly do you want to put a "mini" high speed ring or other kart layouts?...
PD replicated the real layout of Piazza del Campo. Spectators will fill the inner part of the track. Consortium got pissed about flags, I don't know how pissed they would be if PD put fictive roads where there aren't any...
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- cooldawn | GTP_Vincent_Vice
- cooldawn
@ Famine. I really do appreciate your feedback on all this as you are a GT one-stop-shop so thank you for your responses. I'm only being honest and realistic about the situation as of now...I mean no harm.
There are certainly 'official' curious omissions but that's what they are at the moment.
I don't recall seeing more than one version of Le Mans in GT5 so far either.
I hope it is the exclusive way to get point-to-point stages because that would mean more unique circuits are needed to add to the number already revealed.
God damn Kaz
Fair enough...but I'll stray away from made up lists for the moment.
Yeah...sorry, maybe I should have been more descriptive of any caveats. I actually mean over and above the tracks already revealed, for instance the assumption that Tsukuba, Monaco, Laguna Seca, Special Stage Route 5 or Valencia are in.
There are certainly 'official' curious omissions but that's what they are at the moment.
I don't recall seeing more than one version of Le Mans in GT5 so far either.
Are you including Rally Stages in you're estimations or do you think the Course Maker in GT5 is the exclusive way to get point-to-point courses?
I hope it is the exclusive way to get point-to-point stages because that would mean more unique circuits are needed to add to the number already revealed.
I follow and admire the logic here but it could be misleading.
To me, even though Kaz offered more information regarding the situation, it's still really annoyingly ambiguous.
God damn Kaz
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Look at the photo & watch the GT5 kart videos again & notice how they differ. The tarmac ring layout was created by PD. All the (real) posts guarding the inside, cobble part are gone in GT5... There's no space on the real photo to fit spectators around the outside unless they take up that outer tarmac part immediately next to the buildings... That means the GT5 tarmac ring overlaps the cobble stones and posts... It has to - just to enable such a wide ring / layout and keep some area for the spectators & tents on the inside.
I have no doubts that because this area is now being associated with motor racing through GT5 that the official historical centre / committee got upset about it. They don't want petrol heads turning up there with their motorbikes, scooters or go karts any more than they want people copying their flags into the game.
If you ever decide to visit - don't expect to see stretches of tarmac laid over the cobble stones in the central area! There's plenty of room in the GT5 game version to create a scaled down tarmac layout akin to the High Speed Ring - if PD wants. It's just one straight on one side and a couple of bends down the other. Easily done. đź‘Ť
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- Camboriu - Braz
- FASJ6418
Sometimes people complain that we keep talking about this, but hey, it´s the best conversation going on at the moment.
About the premium cars number, that can´t be right. According to the master cars list, we already seen 150 or so of the premium cars.
And most likely, we´ve seen most of the premium tracks.
We know they used "premium track" to describe Le Mans, so it could very well be that GT4/GT PSP tracks are standard, upscaled, like we´ve seen on trailers.
The reason why people "bet" on GT4 tracks on this game is because we´ve seen what they did with GT HD - they already had those tracks upscaled to 1080p. Also, the GTPSP videos showed cars and tracks in a resolution let´s say, GT5ish. (in Vision GT trailer too).
And it makes sense for a lot of reasons. I know this is no proof, but i will be extremely bummed if they don´t include those GT4 tracks in GT5.
About the real life tracks, there´s also things to consider. Would they modeled and licensed Valencia just for two spin offs, and not include in any major release? Probably not.
Will they drop tracks like Laguna Seca and Motegi? Probably not. Does it make sense for the small GT PSP to have way more tracks than it´s grand daddy GT5? Probably not.
Why haven´t they edited this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gran_Turismo_courses) list? I mean, they have to be aware of wikipedia right? Most companies have people dedicated to monitor what it´s said there...
What i say is, we have a few concrete facts, so right now, all we can do is take educate guesses based on the series history, and based on clues thrown in in previous demos/games.
I say the GT PSP track count is a good example, and we should expect that with the added inclusion of GT5 exclusives, just like the car roster will be (GTPSP standards + GT5 exclusives).
One final note is something i said after knowing about the standard cars, and it looked like nobody agreed: They never really scrapped the plans for GT HD and GT HD premium! Of course they changed the project (it was a great decision to change, i must add), but the work done on cars and tracks, they haven´t erased that.
That´s why they can give us standard cars and tracks as a "bonus".
We´ll see about this on november, but i don´t believe this is a far fetched dream.
- 5,018
- Val d'Orcia,Tuscany
- hardvibes
- ACR HardVibes
Where did I say anything about tarmac? Roads are not just made of tarmac you know? I perfectly know how Piazza del Campo is since I've been there dozens of times. It has big modeled rocks all around, even on the narrow streets sorrounding it. Just like for other real tracks PD replicated, they put barriers but they don't put stretches of road where there aren't any...I'm talking about the inner part, the plaza. Stands and spectators are ok for it, but I bet all you want that PD won't put other layouts in it.
- 87,906
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
The track in GT5 uses the outside, paved edge of the square. As, in fact, does the horse race - the Palio di Siena:
Given that the kart track we've seen uses the real-life Palio track (now with fewer flags!), it's not reasonable to assume that there will be any "variations" based upon it.
Nor should it. The point was that when asked which fantasy track Kazunori would make a reality if he could, he had to say that he had to think about the answer so he didn't reveal any new fantasy tracks from GT5.
Belief isn't required. He stated that he had to think about the answer in case he revealed tracks before he'd intended to. I asked if that meant GT5 would have a new fantasy track that would exceed Deep Forest in his estimations and Trial Mountain in mine and he just smiled in response.
Maybe it would. Who knows? Kazunori's timescale is his and his alone - as is his meaning of "soon" and "90%".
It would have been nice to video it, but we weren't allowed any recording equipment. Where I have put quotes in the article are where Kazunori's exact words are appropriate and where I have not is where I cannot necessarily remember the precise order of words and do not want to attribute direct quotes.
The question I asked was "Given the time, resources, money and ability to turn any fantasy track from the Gran Turismo series into a track in the real world, which one track would you recreate?". The answer, after 40 seconds of sotto voce Japanese introspection was "Deep Forest". I said "Trial Mountain?" and there came a minute of Japanese for Translator-san to have a bash at. Translator-san's exact translation isn't available - there was no recording equipment - but his approximate translation was that Kazunori had to think about his answer because he had to be sure he didn't accidentally reveal any tracks (Translator-san's translation - though Japanese has no specific plurals, so I have to trust he got that nuance from somewhere) before he had intended to. I said "Does that mean that there may be a fantasy track in GT5 which exceeds Deep Forest in your estimations and Trial Mountain in mine?" and, post-translation, he smiled and nodded slightly - though that may have been an acknowledgement of my question rather than an affirmation or answer.
He then went on to explain the bit about Grand Valley and Maeda Construction.
That doesn't work with the numbers we already have though. It requires twice the variations per track rate we've observed so far. It requires breaking Occam's Razor to invent unsupported variations - as you say, you can't back up five different Rally Toscanas when in the three demos so far we've seen one, and the kart track follows precisely the Palio di Siena track and not some made-up short course on a real template. There's never been a Tokyo short (and in fact the junctions on the real roads preclude there being one, short of a fake path through the park). We haven't seen a London short (and let's face it, it's pretty damn short already) or a Madrid short.
What we know so far is that they have shown 16 tracks, 10 real, which, between them, have 27 alternatives including unseen-in-GT5 alternatives from earlier games (La Sarthe at GamesCom was a new 2009 layout, GT4 had a pair of older [if inaccurate] layouts) and a total of 33 different ways to drive them.
If the 16 we know is to become "more than 20" in the end product, we need to have seen 66% of the end-product and the alternatives or the different ways to drive the new tracks have to be twice as common as before - the remaining no-more-than 8 tracks need either 44 alternatives or 38 ways to drive them, at an average rate of 5.5 alternatives or 4.75 alternatives and reverse per track compared to the current rate of 1.69/2.06 per track.
Shirakawa's list has 46 tracks, 15 "real", tracks from previous games and GT5 previews and his number of alternatives comes in at 69 - with reverse tracks taking it to 109. That's a rate of 1.5/2.37 per track - much closer to the current observed rate than any form that requires a maximum of 24 different tracks. GT4, for reference, had 34 tracks, 53 alternatives and 83 ways to drive them - 1.56/2.44 per track.
While I don't think Shirakawa's list is necessarily accurate with regards to specific tracks, I do think that it mathematically adds up - 20ish real places, 50ish total places, 70ish total alternatives, 110ish ways to drive them. Plus the course editor.
It's nothing to do with the technical aspect of modelling the cars/tracks. It's the publicity aspect of revealing them!
After all, they revealed seven new Premium cars and two new tracks at GamesCom. If you assume they release them at the same rate comparative to each other, that'll be 200 Premium cars and 57 tracks in total - curiously close to the "50ish total places" I mentioned in the last bit.
That's probably one of the reasons I was asked to go in the first place
I agree - as I just said, I don't necessarily agree that Shirakawa's list is accurate, but it is at least mathematically apt with two separate known data points.
That's just based on GT4 having two versions and the GT5 demo one being a third, distinct one. I imagine they will at least keep the unchicaned one, to suit the three '67 racers.
I'm neither including nor excluding them. I honestly doubt we'll see anything approaching WRC-accurate tracks save the universal Super Special Stage head-to-head track, so I'm considering it likely that the rally tracks will be mainly fantasy. I'd imagine the shortened Pike's Peak might return though.
To me, even though Kaz offered more information regarding the situation, it's still really annoyingly ambiguous.
God damn Kaz
I'd be lying if I said I was happy with the answer, but it reinforced my suspicion that the "more than 20" number has been a misinterpreted red herring from the start.
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- United Kingdom
Look at the photos and look at the GT5 kart videos again and again until it makes sense.
Polyphony Digital DO and already have laid down tarmac / roads in GT5 where there aren't any in real life. Of course they do...! Even Eiger Nordwand is based on hiking trails and not real roads / tarmac. This is common knowledge.
- 5,018
- Val d'Orcia,Tuscany
- hardvibes
- ACR HardVibes
Eiger is not the same as Piazza del Campo, at all. I'm talking about authorizations and licenses issue.
For the rest Famine already replied (as I said)
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Look again at the real world photo then look again at the photo of the GT5 track.
The track in GT5 PdC also overlaps the inside cobble-stone section of the square. The outside (paved area) is where the spectators are sitting - behind fences and then there's red gravel clearance there as well in the corners. On the inside there is a bit of red gravel clearance as well!
Be clear that the kart track is rather wide and there's simply not enough room for it to fit around the outside there. Also take note of the bends in the paved area on the real world photo. Look at how heavily cut in it is on the GT5 photo. Clearly the GT5 track overlaps the inside cobblestones.
On account of the real world physical posts guarding that central area (see the real photo again), I would surmise that the horse track is actually more narrow and does not overlap those posts (it can't unless they can all be removed). The metal fence holding the spectators inside the middle section prevents us from seeing whether this fence follows the pattern of the real world physical posts.
Either way - the two are clearly different.
I say again... Tracks (as in variations on a location) or world locations?
You can't just use a smile as being indicative of a positive response. Nurburgring GP is not a location on its own... It counts as a variation and yet it's also a "track" completely independent of the Nurburgring. I think it would serve better if people stopped using the word "track" because that is not what PD have spoken about.
There could easily be 45 "tracks", but with reverse (on some) that could amount to 70+ variations for only 20 locations.
Yes of course, I kind of expected that. It's not certain what was being considered here. Oh well, never mind! The good thing is we'll only be kept in the dark a little while longer.
I disagree with most of that. You're wrong about PdC here and there's no reason for there not to be 10 Toscana variations (including reverse). As I've said before, it's easier for PD to go away and add a new variation to an existing location than it is to build an entire new location.
The last sentence I do agree with - but for a different reason. There's no pressure on PD to show off a different variation at a known location than there is for PD to show off a couple of new locations for each update. Despite this, we have already been presented with the Nurburgring GP "track" as well as the main Nurburgring "track" (using the word "track" because they're completely independent)... Rather than showing the GP circuit, why not show another location instead? Well - maybe because there isn't many left to show. Perhaps TGS will be a final update and show us Spa, L.Seca, Monaco and one more fictional track... That is actually all I am hoping for (and we may not get that).
As I said before. Comparing the number of cars revealed to the number of tracks revealed is comparing apples with oranges.
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- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
It follows the path of Palio di Siena - an internationally famous horse race. Look again at the real world photo of that event.
A world location wouldn't be a wholly fantasy GT track now would it?
Kazunori understood the question - note that his answer, mine and the further discussion were all wholly fantasy GT tracks...
I didn't.
The observed tracks thus far and the ratio in GT4 do not bear this out. The rate of release of information does not bear this out. It's probably worth noting that in the breakout session answer and our interview Kazunori used the word "torakku" which specifically refers to a car racing track - as opposed to "circuit", "layout", "location" which has been used in the past.
How am I wrong about Piazza del Campo? It follows the path of Palio di Senna - and originally bore the flags of the Palio di Senna (which aren't flown year round). That's probably why it's in the game - an historic race track, albeit one for horses.
There may be no reason for there not to be 10 versions of Rally Toscana but, more importantly, there is no reason or evidence that there is. Occam's Razor states that we should not needlessly multiply entities - we have seen one Rally Toscana track with no reverse version and there is no need for us to invent additional ones without evidence.
The evidence we have is that each track has 1.69 alternate configurations and 2.06 ways to drive on it. This is close to the GT4 number and to the putative track list Shirakawa posted. There is no current evidence that would support more than doubling that rate to 5.5/4.75 for the remaining tracks that you postulate. In fact the only two "locations" in GT history I can think of that come close are Driving Park (Test Course, Beginner Course & Reverse, Motorland & Reverse) and El Capitan (El Capitan & Reverse, Cathedral Rocks I & Reverse, Cathedral Rocks II & Reverse - plus Cathedral Rocks III & Reverse in GTPSP).
Even easier to gussy up an existing track too - especially if it's a fake one.
The three 'Ring versions tied in with Kazunori competing in the 24 hour race there. There needs to be no other explanation.
There is no reason for this on a technical basis.
There's always hidden stuff on GT discs. GT3 had three hidden cars. In GT2 there was a track called "Eiger Loop" - it even appears, named, in the opening credits - which one could access through nefarious means but, from memory, it couldn't be driven.
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- yeti_c
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