GT5 Master Track List (NOT a wishlist)
- Thread starter CyborgGT
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-> ...
^ Yes, the legendary SSR11 was featured in both GT1 and GT3 with a slightly modified layout.
^ Looks like you've never played GT1 then.
-> Its ok, GT1 is already in the Old Testament period already!
^ Not just in the Hi-Fi mode, but on many racing occasions (such as the longest endurance race in GT1) in the Gran Turismo/Simulation Mode.
-> Here are the difference between the two epic tracks in Gran Turismo, the SSR11:
Special Stage R11 '90s
Special Stage R11 '00s
Here are the two SSR11's side-by-side:
thanks for the info and images, yeah i remember ssr11 endurance races on gt1 normal and reverse. and i definitely prefer the 90's track, truly awesome. probably my favourite of all, along with grand Vally
- 1,806
- Belgrade
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- 701
Yep, the strangest thing about the video is the Eiger is never seen, you'd expect this to be visible in a few shots but it could be just out of view or hidden by steep hills.
Also, it might not be best to take the whole video as one continuous route. As the car exits the tunnel, the open sides switch from the left to the right side of the car, and in the shot of Grindelwald valley, the sun is in a completely different position.
I think you're along the right lines with your route, except it could start near the back of the KS station and loop back round to the trail on the other side of the tracks instead of along the Eiger. Problem I see with the Eiger is it would hard to get back down again once you've driven along the cliff for a while, it might explain some of the hairpins though.
The worst ones being the distant mountain ranges using mirrored textures! Those ones definitely can't be relied on.
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shirakawaa
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This might be because of two reasons:
- The road is in an area which would make it harder to be visible (too much close to the mountain or downhill).
- Video portions which showed it clearly have been omitted to not make it obvious that the track is in the Eiger area
Yes, that could be a possibility too.
In some video sections it seemed to me that the car was going the opposite direction.
Then it could be something like this:
The sections in red would be the tunnel/half open tunnel. Maybe the tunnel would extend a bit more to the east according to the video, though.
However I liked the possibility that the road would go inside the mountain and reach Jungfraujoch railroad station. The flat glacier to the east of it (south of the summit of Mönch) would be great for some fictional ice races (something like Ice Arena could be made there).
Yes, that definitely isn't anything that can be used for properly locating the track.
- 701
Changed my mind again about the Eiger, there is a walking route down to Alpiglen that the track could follow.
Found here with some other pics
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/jgrimbleby/eigertrail.htm
One of them even looks like it would fit with the Ferarri California video O_o
Found here with some other pics
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/jgrimbleby/eigertrail.htm
One of them even looks like it would fit with the Ferarri California video O_o
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shirakawaa
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Nice find!
Since Eiger Nordwand in GT5P is based on existing trails, it would make sense that another track located between Kleine Scheidegg and Grindelwald would also be based on existing trails.
I tried searching more information about the Eiger Trail, and I found this site:
http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=811782
From there, I imported and cleaned the trail to my copy of Google Earth. This is what I've come up with:
Of course, if it appears in GT5 it might not be the entire network of trails, but just part of it. However it's possible the track layout will at least loosely based on the roads in red. Slopes are even gentle enough for racing with cars.
As for the Ferrari California trailer, it shows too little to tell if what can be seen at times is Eiger.
Since Eiger Nordwand in GT5P is based on existing trails, it would make sense that another track located between Kleine Scheidegg and Grindelwald would also be based on existing trails.
I tried searching more information about the Eiger Trail, and I found this site:
http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=811782
From there, I imported and cleaned the trail to my copy of Google Earth. This is what I've come up with:
Of course, if it appears in GT5 it might not be the entire network of trails, but just part of it. However it's possible the track layout will at least loosely based on the roads in red. Slopes are even gentle enough for racing with cars.
As for the Ferrari California trailer, it shows too little to tell if what can be seen at times is Eiger.
shirakawaa
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I don't know if you people remember that in the "unintentionally leaked" track reference material list there was Gornergrat listed.
It's a mountain location in Switzerland 70 Km south of the Eiger area.
After checking on Google Earth, there's a trail from which goes there that PD could use as a base for a fictional paved road. This is what I think would be a good guess for a point-to-point track based on that:
It's still possible that it won't appear in the game or that it will be only a photo location (at the train station at the top of the trail/Gornergratbahn railway), but it would be interesting to see it in GT5 anyway.
It's a mountain location in Switzerland 70 Km south of the Eiger area.
After checking on Google Earth, there's a trail from which goes there that PD could use as a base for a fictional paved road. This is what I think would be a good guess for a point-to-point track based on that:
It's still possible that it won't appear in the game or that it will be only a photo location (at the train station at the top of the trail/Gornergratbahn railway), but it would be interesting to see it in GT5 anyway.
- 701
Whoa, how do you get that elevation info?!
This is probably irrelevant, but the Japanese of the leaked reference list only said Gornergrat, (ゴルナーグラート and the bahn was added in translation, though I'm relying on Google translate as my Japanese is rubbish!
This is probably irrelevant, but the Japanese of the leaked reference list only said Gornergrat, (ゴルナーグラート
and the bahn was added in translation, though I'm relying on Google translate as my Japanese is rubbish!
shirakawaa
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On Google Earth, once a path is set, right-click on it and click "Show elevation profile". You might need to update Google Earth to the latest version.
The elevation profile isn't perfect, though. It doesn't use any smoothing, so it shows every imperfection of the digital elevation model used to represent the ground elevation in 3D.
The only really useful data are distance, elev. gain/loss and average slope.
Yes, you're right. On the image it says Gornergrat, but the translation written on it is "Gornergratbahn". Not that it would be completely wrong, though. Gornergratbahn is the railway which leads to Gornergrat station that would surely be visible from the summit of the trail and along the way in many spots. It's even possible that a new point-to-point track with Gornergrat scenery would be called Gornergratbahn.This is probably irrelevant, but the Japanese of the leaked reference list only said Gornergrat, (ゴルナーグラート
Anyway, I'm confident that in some way, it will be in the game. The Matterhorn visible from many places there would be quite a view, and it's actually one of the most famous/popular peaks of the Alps.
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- 701
Ah thanks, I haven't been using the proper version of Google Earth since they added the browser plugin in Google Maps. I guess there's a potential snow track if they don't do the whole mountain pass thing.
- 746
- Sternendaal
Could the Gornergrat be that snowy track from a recent video (with the Focus rallying through the snow)?
shirakawaa
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The snowy tracks recently shown were Chamonix and Ice Arena (in the Red Bull trailer).
Sorry to sound like a party crasher, but...
As much as I feel like a road from Grindelwald to kleine Scheidegg may be plausible, I feel like your most recent developments (road along Eiger trail, track from Zermatt to Gornergatbahn) are really unfeasible. The main reasons for that (aside the time-consuming process to include them in GT):
From Grindelwald to kleine Scheidegg, you're along the 1000-2000 m above see level, among the alpine forest. The slope may be steep, but it lies around 10%, which is somehow realistic for a mountain road. In the other layouts, you're actually in rocks slides, and in places that are way too steep to build a road. Some places are just not meant to be paved.
As much as I feel like a road from Grindelwald to kleine Scheidegg may be plausible, I feel like your most recent developments (road along Eiger trail, track from Zermatt to Gornergatbahn) are really unfeasible. The main reasons for that (aside the time-consuming process to include them in GT):
From Grindelwald to kleine Scheidegg, you're along the 1000-2000 m above see level, among the alpine forest. The slope may be steep, but it lies around 10%, which is somehow realistic for a mountain road. In the other layouts, you're actually in rocks slides, and in places that are way too steep to build a road. Some places are just not meant to be paved.
- 591
- DJW_GT
That's quite true, but similarly to tracks such as 'Costa di Amalfi' in GT4, it may well just be based on those routes, whilst editing some parts to make them more feasable (e.g. by making the road snake up any sections that are too steep rather than simply going straight up). So I wouldn't lose all hope!
shirakawaa
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The road would be obviously not only paved, but also enlarged; tunnels, bridges, hairpins would most likely be added along the way. Eventually the scenery would slightly differ from the real one in several points to make the track more enjoyable to drive. The point is that existing trails would be used as a base, not as a strict layout for a road course meant for cars. The same happened for Eiger Nordwand in GT5P.
It's however probably true that an average slope of about 20% (the second half of a fictional Zermatt-Gornergrat uphill course) would be too much for many cars. I don't know if there are existing paved roads which maintain that slope for very long. For comparison, Pikes Peak has an average grade of 7% (max. 10.5%). However it's also mostly got a gravel/dirt surface with reduced friction.
Still, if "what if" scenarios are to be included in GT5, I'd want to see a "what if some famous steep and hard mountain trails were paved for racing use" one.
It's however probably true that an average slope of about 20% (the second half of a fictional Zermatt-Gornergrat uphill course) would be too much for many cars. I don't know if there are existing paved roads which maintain that slope for very long. For comparison, Pikes Peak has an average grade of 7% (max. 10.5%). However it's also mostly got a gravel/dirt surface with reduced friction.
Still, if "what if" scenarios are to be included in GT5, I'd want to see a "what if some famous steep and hard mountain trails were paved for racing use" one.
- 701
Yep, the main theory about the track alongside the Eiger was the footage of long winding avalanche tunnels from the FT-86 trailer. These may end up being in a different place, but I expect to see them in the game somewhere!
I think a route going all the way down to Grindelwald is a bit optimistic, would be nice though!
I think a route going all the way down to Grindelwald is a bit optimistic, would be nice though!
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- DJW_GT
Also, in regard to the steep gradient. The steep slope in 'Citta di Aria must surely be getting on towards 20%, and the steepest proper road in the world I believe is somewhere around 33% and is navigable by almost all cars. Therefore I'd say that the Zermatt-Gornergrat isn't all that unreasonable.
My point was that the series of trails that have been "paved" to build Eiger Nordwand in GT5P are located in areas where the terrain can be constructed. I doubt that the same can happen in the later locations (among the rock slides and cliffs), unless you really destroy the place (so much dynamite and concrete would be needed that you disfigure the mountain side, and you kind of lose the point in having a track set in a nice scenery).
Actually, for you to have a point of comparison, the steepest road I can think of is the Alto del Angliru, located in the Asturias (Spain). It's been used a few times for la Vuelta (cycling competition) and it's so difficult that professional cyclist even think it is stupidly hard. I guess you can have a hard time even just walking it. For reference, its steepest kilometre has an elevation of 17.5% and has sections around 23% of elevation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alto_de_L%27Angliru
The roads from that trailer were located in an area between alpine forests and alpine tundra. This suggests that you're around 1500-2000 m above see level. That's what you'd have in a path between kleine Scheidegg and Grindelwald. The later layouts you suggested were above 2500m, where you no longer have vegetation.
- 701
Yeah, I had originally thought a few areas were higher than I think they now are, I was assuming the height by compairing the skybox style distant mountains to the nearer 3D modelled mountains, which was never a good idea! Tree line is a much better way to jugde that.
For the Eiger route itself I was only suggesting we'd seen the view from inside tunnels, as showing 15 seconds (half a km?) of seemingly continuous tunnel seemed significant. It's a lot of dynamite wherever it is!
True, Citta di Aria is tough enough for some cars already.
shirakawaa
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Ok, so a paved Eiger Trail is probably unfeasible. A Grindelwald-Kleine Scheidegg road roughly following the railway (as previously hypothesized in past pages), though, would be fun anyway 
I still think that a paved road following the Gornergratbahn would be possible (not much work/mountain disfigurement needed compared to carving the Eiger for a paved Eiger Trail) although it would certainly be very extreme, not suitable for all vehicles or even meant for normal use. It could probably be considered like some sort of point-to-point mountain climbing race track. No need to worry for cyclists, old cars or trucks in this way
I still think that a paved road following the Gornergratbahn would be possible (not much work/mountain disfigurement needed compared to carving the Eiger for a paved Eiger Trail) although it would certainly be very extreme, not suitable for all vehicles or even meant for normal use. It could probably be considered like some sort of point-to-point mountain climbing race track. No need to worry for cyclists, old cars or trucks in this way
- 701
My money is still on the tunnel being down the Eiger trail towards Alpiglen, (and back up along the railway) as it seems the best fit with the little information we have. Given the amout of Dynamite they must have used to obliterate half of Capri, it would be foolish to underestimate what their construction company is capable of.
I think I've run out of things to say about this until we see something new, but here's a shot where you can see the lights from the tunnel winding around in the distance. You can just make out they're using an artificial roof rather than building it into the rock, so that should save on dynamite.
I think I've run out of things to say about this until we see something new, but here's a shot where you can see the lights from the tunnel winding around in the distance. You can just make out they're using an artificial roof rather than building it into the rock, so that should save on dynamite.
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