GT5 = Need more Trucks

[Master_Yoda]

JohnBM01 , regardless of their perfomance - i dont think anything offroad should be a part of GT

it should stick to what GT does best - tarmac racing

Tiss Tiss Tiss, so your saying that cars like the Subaru STi, and Evo VIII (8) (might not be able to read roman numerals) anyway taking away 4 weel drive (4WD) is takeing alot of raceing. And the tital doesn't spisificly say "The Real Road and Track Simulator" no it says "The Real DRIVING Simulator", meaning it shall contain all kinds of raceing, and if they want to give us trucks and minicans, and large vehicles. Ahmen we shall receive PD' gift to us and all there hard work, in generacity. Face it you gotta be able to like what you get, other wise you can't be sucessfull in life. So who reallly cares what the Renault Escape is, and wiether BMW's post are to long, just be happy.

My 2 cents.

 

[Tenacious D]

Frankly this is one area I would like to see open up, off road rally with performance trucks and SUVs. I'm not chomping at the bit for it or anything, but it is one area where the bigger Land Rovers and all would shine. Why Not?

 

[Master_Yoda]

Frankly this is one area I would like to see open up, off road rally with performance trucks and SUVs. I'm not chomping at the bit for it or anything, but it is one area where the bigger Land Rovers and all would shine. Why Not?

Land Rovers would do ok, there very good at off road, but with speed, i havn't seen much on that part, but i can be proved wrong. AND people in the world use Land Rovers the way they should be, they always put big 22" rims on them, and totally lose there point.

 

[<_Spike_>]

Land Rovers would do ok, there very good at off road, but with speed, i havn't seen much on that part, but i can be proved wrong. AND people in the world use Land Rovers the way they should be, they always put big 22" rims on them, and totally lose there point.

They can be pretty darn fast, I'll admit my knowledge on the Stormer/Sport is the highest, it's been refered to more as a tall GT car then anything else and goes like a rocket, but it's engine was limited to something like 140MPH, any faster and the tires would burst. Other Land Rovers aren't as sporty because they do gear themselves towards off-road but can still put up something good on the tarmac. Wouldn't mind a Vauxhall Fronteirer and a Land Rover Sport racing round a track myself actually

 

[Badsight]

You want to flame people because you can't express yourself clearly? Fine.

I hope your second account will be more productive.

i expressed myself just fine - its just YOU wanting to stir trouble with pathetic semantic arguments

now if you want to make an issue over this , why are you not singling out John also for his similer useage of the word ? because you dont care either way - your just making trouble for no reason

so either do a proper job of being anally semantic , or shut up about it

 

[<_Spike_>]

Don't really want to get involved...but can't you guys talk about the thread and argue over PM...

 

[Badsight]

Spike , if Famine is a big enough person to sling arguments around in public - why am i the one who has to shut up about it - prehaps you are better off questioning why Famine has to in the first place

so your saying . . . .

no Master Yoda i am not - the street versions of those two cars are used as a base for rallying true - but you know as do i that they are modern day Japanese hot-rods (useage of the term so Famine has something to get argumentative about)

GT does a really poor job of simulating dirt driving - it should be dropped because it totally detracts from how good a job it does at Tarmac racing

it has nothing to do with being happy with sub-par simulation just-because-its-extra , its about whats best for the Game in Generall

GT1 was the "ultimate driving simulator" , it had no offroad ability at all . if they cant make it realistic then it should just be let go

 

[<_Spike_>]

Not telling anyone to shut up, just saying how about we *all* get back to the truck issue and get on.


Anyway, thing is with GT1, "was" is the key word. Granted it needs more work but if they could make it really realistic, would you still say no to trucks/offroad etc?

 

[Badsight]

Anyway, thing is with GT1, "was" is the key word. Granted it needs more work but if they could make it really realistic, would you still say no to trucks/offroad etc?

if they could programm the offroad physics to be as realistic as the Tarmac currently is - then id be more than happy with it

its just that its so arcade & poor in handeling compared to what driving down dirt & gravel roads is actually like , that it detracts from how good the Tarmac side of things is

 

[Famine]

i expressed myself just fine - its just YOU wanting to stir trouble with pathetic semantic arguments

now if you want to make an issue over this , why are you not singling out John also for his similer useage of the word ? because you dont care either way - your just making trouble for no reason

so either do a proper job of being anally semantic , or shut up about it

Who's arguing? I pointed out to you what the Espace F1 really was, to give you more accurate information than that which you had (you believed it was a modified Espace - "the thing is a van - but with a F1 V10" (sic)) and told you that your attitude would attract you the moderators' attention.

Both of these were correct.

You chose to respond to this by ignoring it and attempting to insult people - assuming I was correcting your definition of "hot-rod" rather than the technical aspects of the Espace F1. Look up "ad hominem".

*shrug*

Your loss.

 

[Badsight]

Who's arguing? .

you are

was i wrong about the Espace ?

To make the Espace F1, Matra used 1994 world champions Williams Renault&#8482;s power train unit. This engine was fitted centrally , Built around the Espace&#8217;s steel frame without changing the model. To do so, they took an Espace off the assembly-line, cut out its floor pan to replace it with a carbon body structure harbouring the 820 hp V10

seems like you are sticking your nose in just to argue , the F1 was a hot-rodded espace , not a special chassie with espace looks only

"I pointed out to you what the Espace F1 really was" - even when you didnt need too because what was stated wasnt wrong. again Famine , are you going to jump all over John for his use of the Hot-rod term as well ? no because you dont care & you knew what he was meaning

your just stirring here Famine - if you cant follow up with your desire to see the term Hot-rod applied strictly literally by harrasing all who dont - then shut up about it

 

[Famine]

I didn't correct ANYONE for their liberal usage of nomenclature, so correct someone else "as well" is irrelevant. I pointed out to you what the Espace F1 actually was (and it's interesting that you've pulled a quote from supercars.net and not actually read or understood it), rather than pulling you up on your usage of the term "hot-rod".

If you don't like being corrected and see it as harassing, don't post information which is wrong.

As for the term "hot-rod", I don't care. But you did clearly state that:

the Renault Espace was a hotrod

And then attacked people who questioned this statement because it wasn't what you meant. Newsflash: Forum users are not mind-readers. They can only go on what you say. You say:

the Renault Espace was a hotrod

And they can ONLY believe that's what you mean. You can accuse me of whatever you want, but I didn't make you type that - and nor did anyone else.


It may interest you that there were at least two different Renault Espace F1s. Though it probably won't.

 

[Badsight]

"they" can "only" believe that can they ? , when down the same page is another post explaining the exact meaning .

Nope. The Espace F1 is an F1 car drivetrain with a lightweight, Espace-look-a-like body on it, not an Espace with an F1 engine in it

what you jumped in to "explain" was wrong , the F1 was a modified Espace . here your implying its a special made too look like a espace - 2 minutes googling pulled up info that backed up my own recollections over it .

like i said earlier - if you think the Espace can be confused with a classic american Hot-rod then your utterly retarded , you know the meaning John implied - & mine is obvious - now if your going to continue with your totall rubbish semantic attack over the term Hot-Rod then apply it to all

you wont attack John over his hot-rod comment even once , because your little crusade is total BS

if you cannot be a petty literalist to all , then shut up about it

 

[Dave A]

retaining the vehicle&#8217;s looks with lightweight carbon fibre panels,

That's from one of Renaults sites, Famine was spot on.

They only Espace part's used in the Espace 1 was the steel frame, that's it. The Espace F1 is not a modded Espace.

And shut up about John, he didn't say he thought it was a hotrod, or a mnivan, he was making a point that you keep trying to take out of context. What you put was a statement, sure you corrected your meaning afterwards, but no-ones attacked that. Your problem is that rather than just say you didn't explain what you meant well, you'd rather start an argument with everyone, which is fine by me, because you've already been proven wrong a couple of times already.

 

[Badsight]

excuse me ? look at JohnBM01's comment , he too is comparing the Espace F1 to being a Hotrod van . im not taking that out of context - & how could anyone take it to be literall . the idea is that its a high-performance van

not an Espace with an F1 engine in it

no he wasnt

the F1 was an Espace with a F1 V10 in it

the whole idear of not realising the F1 was a souped up Espace is rediculous , theres no need for Famine to be so pathetic over this - the term hot-rod isnt strictly kept to meaning modified classic american cars . its meaning is the same as the modification the F1 went thru . i dont have to put up with his BS attacks over my comments because he cannot grasp analogys

if this is a regular occurance for him he must get busy with similer crusades all over the internet everyday

 

[Dave A]

no he wasnt

the F1 was an Espace with a F1 V10 in it

No it wasn't.

 

[Badsight]

No it wasn't.

they dropped a F1 V10 into an Espace - regardless of the shell the whole basis of the thing is not a customised enlarged F1 car - but a renault Espace van

 

[<_Spike_>]

Hot rods are older, often historical, cars. Originally the term was used to the practice of taking an old, cheap car, removing weight (usually by removing roof, hood, bumpers, windscreen and fenders), lower it, change or tune the engine to give more power, add fat wheels for traction and paint it to make it stand out.

Definition of Hot Rod (from Wikipedia)

In 1995, Renault displayed a show car called the Espace F1 - to celebrate the 10 year anniversary of the Espace and Renault's involvement in Formula One racing. It was a V10-powered Williams Formula 1 racing car with an Espace J63 lookalike body made of carbon-fiber. The Renault-Williams engine powered it from 0-200 km/h in 6 seconds, and helped by the carbon brakes, it did 0-270 km/h and back to 0 in under 600 meters.

again, from Wikipedia. It's not just a souped up Espace, F1 car with a light weight LOOK-A-LIKE Espace body. Sorted...

 

[Famine]

"they" can "only" believe that can they ? , when down the same page is another post explaining the exact meaning.

And?

Between your two posts you were brought up on it. Forum users are not only not telepaths, they are not seers either.

Write what you mean, or expect to get it pointed out. If you cannot express clearly what you mean YOU are at fault.

what you jumped in to "explain" was wrong , the F1 was a modified Espace . here your implying its a special made too look like a espace - 2 minutes googling pulled up info that backed up my own recollections over it.

Oh dear.

I didn't imply that. I stated it, clearly (just as clearly as you stated "the Renault Espace was a hotrod", the difference being you then denied you meant that at all).

The Espace F1 was NOT a modified Espace. It had an Espace spaceframe - the only part it shared with a regular Espace - with a honeycombed carbon fibre monocoque shell and the drivetrain and engine from an FW14 underneath. That's about 75% F1 car, 5% Espace and a bespoke shell.

like i said earlier - if you think the Espace can be confused with a classic american Hot-rod then your utterly retarded

Ironic.

However, no-one confused anything. You stated (that is STATED):

the Renault Espace was a hotrod

Not being gifted with a window into your brain, how is anyone supposed to understand anything from your post other than the fact you think the Renault Espace was a hotrod? Hmm?

you know the meaning John implied - & mine is obvious - now if your going to continue with your totall rubbish semantic attack over the term Hot-Rod then apply it to all

I have not once commented on your use or misuse - or anyone else's - of the term "hotrod".

you wont attack John over his hot-rod comment even once , because your little crusade is total BS

I have not once commented on your use or misuse - or anyone else's - of the term "hotrod".

if you cannot be a petty literalist to all , then shut up about it

If you cannot express your thoughts clearly when you have time to think about them and edit them before pressing the "Submit Reply" button, then that is not my fault - nor anyone else's but your own.


Incidentally, if you consider my posts to be harassing you or attacking you, please use the "Report to Moderators" button, to be found in the bottom-right corner of all posts, as this is what it is intended for.

 

[k. takahashi]

SUV and trucks on a street race would be better!

 

[235RX-7GT-C]

I would welcome more trucks, and yes, even big buggers like the Hummer (hell they have the Oddessy and Avantime in there...why not?). I'd even welcome many more Land Rover style vehicles, give me a Grand Jeep Cheroke any day, y'know broaden Gran Turismo's appeal, if they can do it with Formula 1 cars they can do it with trucks.

With GT4, as it's been said, trucks were pretty pathetic in impact. If they could make it more of an open thing in GT5 they could be a great part of the game, why have normal road cars that can't all be tuned up to 700BHP and raced if people are going to say "trucks suck, they don't go fast (which is a lie)" for that very reason. GT is the real DRIVING simulator, not the real RACING simulator, granted racing is the focus, but so is tuning and collecting the cars you probably won't get close to affording for real. If people want more trucks, I say PD should listen.

I agree with this, trucks are by far more powerful than cars alone, yes they may be slow at times but imagine having a Dodge Hemi motor that came from their top of the line Ram pickups in a 2000lbs Civic. Do the math, thats got some kick. I want more truck because of their value and because Nascar Craftsmen Truck Series racing is just as fast as the Nextel Series.
👍 👍

 

[Dave A]

they dropped a F1 V10 into an Espace - regardless of the shell the whole basis of the thing is not a customised enlarged F1 car - but a renault Espace van

Wrong again. They took an FW16's mechanicals, atached a Espace frame to that and fitted the carbon fiber body onto the frame. Like Famine said, it's based on the FW16, not based on an Espace.

 

[JohnBM01]

So, wait a minute... ultimate driving simulator because of no off-road ability? Okay, GT isn't perfect with rally, but which is more important, a variety of racing to give as many fans as possible what they want, or only give fans tarmac racing? I know Gran Turismo isn't the ToCA Race Driver series, but I'd keep the rally racing. In some sense, it's almost pointless having rally cars on circuit courses because rally cars were made for rallying. A big thing about them is that their gear ratios are exceptionally close. Okay, the rallying isn't perfect, but it is good for what it is. I'd keep it and keep working on it. After all, every game... no matter how flawless they are, are only works in progress essentially. This is especially true if people want to make sequels of the games. Don't get rid of rally racing. It can be fun doing rallying. This probably goes back to people only wanting non off-road events. Hey, racing is racing. So my response: "shut up and race!"

I think the ultimate pickup trucks are those raced in CORR, or the Championship Off Road Racing series. This is where dozens of trucks are modified to compete in rallycross-style courses. Think about these courses as motocross for trucks. When the green flag is dropped, trucks are all lined up in a row. Then they take off and dart into Turn 1. I don't watch the races often, but I'd recommend these trucks for hardcore off-roaders and devoted truck fans. To me, these are real racing trucks, not the ones who do the ovals.

If you're thinking of the BMW X5 Le Mans, check this site out: { http://www.carpages.co.uk/bmw/bmw_x5_le_mans_record_28_06_01.asp?switched=on&echo=804547867 }. This is a site reporting on the BMW X5 breaking the 8-minute mark at the N&#252;rburgring Nordschleife. You already know that I loathe running this course, but for an SUV (it's an SUV, even though it's marketed as an SAV), this is pretty damn impressive. It may be very rare, but imagine 700hp V12 engine at your disposal. It was supposed to exhibit the absolute limits of the BMW X5. But if that's true, then this BMW is pretty damn bad. It isn't a production vehicle, but would be the ultimate SUV. Another truck that would be interesting to race with would be the Bowler Wildcat { http://www.bowler-offroad.com/NAV1.htm }. These British beasts are proudly supported by Land Rover and come in four different variations. The Entry Level Wildcat 200 starts with a 4.6L V8 with (please convert!) 185 Ps. The European Baja is one you may have seen if ypu played "ToCA Race Driver 2." There are four off-road tires carried in the back and is all painted up like a racing vehicle. The Wildcat 200 Rally Raid is your ticket to FIA T2 specifications. This is a mean machine. And finally- the big daddy. The Wildcat 200 DAKAR is only for you hardcore hard asses that want to own the great outdoors. It's made for the world's most grueling off-road race- the Paris-Dakar rally. It's the best Bowler offering available.

I may do some extra reading in the future. Rest assured that there is an offering for everyone and something that can satisfy the needs of all trucking fans in GT.

 

[Badsight]

Wrong again. They took an FW16's mechanicals, atached a Espace frame to that and fitted the carbon fiber body onto the frame. Like Famine said, it's based on the FW16, not based on an Espace.

sorry , but yet again wrong

This Espace came on the scene in 1994, celebrating ten years of partnership between Renault and Matra with ten cylinders for birthday candles. To make the Espace F1, Matra used 1994 world champions Williams Renault&#195;&#162;&#194;&#8364;&#194;&#8482;s power train unit. This engine was fitted centrally in the Espace without changing the model. To do so, they took an Espace off the assembly-line, cut out its floor pan to replace it with a carbon body structure harbouring the 820 hp V10, sequential box and automatic attitude control. With a special front end, ad hoc brakes and aerodynamic appendices to prevent it from flying away, it could get up to 300 kph.

the Espace F1 was a modified renault Espace , not a modified Renault/Williams F1 , like Famine is wrong , so you are as well , a hot-rodded to the max Espace

& yes the Espace F1 is a total Hod-Rod , people didnt complain about it in GT2 because its was different & highly performing , it added to the game because of its uniqueness

standard grocery getters are the opposite - they are slow , underpowered & handel poorly <~~~ deseves to be in a racing game ?

i feel that if they cant give as good a representation of off-road driving as they can with tarmac racing they should drop it altogether , because there is a lot of off-road racing games that show up how poor it is

 

[Badsight]

Hot rods are older, often historical, cars. Originally the term was used to the practice of taking an old, cheap car, removing weight (usually by removing roof, hood, bumpers, windscreen and fenders), lower it, change or tune the engine to give more power, add fat wheels for traction and paint it to make it stand out.

Definition of Hot Rod (from Wikipedia)..

my point exactly , sounds like the work done to the Espace doesnt it

if you cant understand "Hot Rod" to mean anything other than old classic american cars Famine , then the problem is you being inexperienced in life in generall

 

[Famine]

if you cant understand "Hot Rod" to mean anything other than old classic american cars Famine , then the problem is you being inexperienced in life in generall

Do you have some problem reading clear English?

I have not once commented on your use or misuse - or anyone else's - of the term "hotrod".

What I HAVE pointed out is that you stated "the Espace is a hotrod" and are denying you meant that. This shows poor language skills - and the fact you're getting angry at other people for your own fault shows that you have poor interpersonal skills and difficulty accepting your own flaws.

the Espace F1 was a modified renault Espace , not a modified Renault/Williams F1 , like Famine is wrong , so you are as well , a hot-rodded to the max Espace

Yes, sure.

Question: What is the wheelbase of a 1994 Renault Espace? What is the wheelbase of the Espace F1? What is the wheelbase of the Williams FW14B?

The Espace F1 ONLY had the steel spaceframe of the Espace. All of the mechanicals and floorpan were FW14B. The body shell was a bespoke carbon fibre assembly. It was a modified FW14B, not a modified Espace.

 

[<_Spike_>]

my point exactly , sounds like the work done to the Espace doesnt it

if you cant understand "Hot Rod" to mean anything other than old classic american cars Famine , then the problem is you being inexperienced in life in generall

No, it's not the work done to the espace. The work was done to the Williams F1 car, check the quotation below in my post and you will see clear as day what the Renault Espace F1 is...the only thing Espace about it is the lightweight look-a-like body, that's all. A body isn't enough to make it a Renault Espace by more then name and first impressions.

 

[Dave A]

sorry , but yet again wrong


the Espace F1 was a modified renault Espace , not a modified Renault/Williams F1 , like Famine is wrong , so you are as well , a hot-rodded to the max Espace

& yes the Espace F1 is a total Hod-Rod , people didnt complain about it in GT2 because its was different & highly performing , it added to the game because of its uniquenes.

Nope your wrong again, I can't believe your quoting supercars.net as fact over my quote of Renault's earlier on, don't be stupid, supercars.net is full, and I mean full of flaws, just like that one. Actually, the fact you are doing that tells me all I need to know about how far you'll go not to have to just say, ok I was wrong. Do you honestly believe they used a standard Espace, and just replaced the floorplan, engine and transmission. The car wouldn't survive a lap around Silverstone, it'd buckle, bend and warp all over the place. The ONLY part of a Renault Espace they used in the Espace F1 was the space frame, thats the ONLY part, theres nothing else, nada, zip, zero. They used an FW chassis, engine, transmission, suspension ect, and attached the Espace frame to that, then modified it to accomodate 4 people (another hint it's not based on a normal Espace right there) then they created Espace-esque carbon firber bodywork that looked similar to a normal Espace's.

 

[Sting]

My addition from wikipedia:

Espace F1

In 1995, Renault displayed a show car called the Espace F1 - to celebrate the 10 year anniversary of the Espace and Renault's involvement in Formula One racing. It was a V10-powered Williams Formula 1 racing car with an Espace J63 lookalike body made of carbon-fiber. The Renault-Williams engine powered it from 0-200 km/h in 6 seconds, and helped by the carbon brakes, it did 0-270 km/h and back to 0 in under 600 meters.

EDIT: and here is a video from matra that was involved with the Espace F1: http://www.matrasport.dk/Cars/Espace/Gallery2/Misc/EspaceF1_360.mov

 

[Powerslide]

For all those who say trucks are a no go,.... what are you talking about???? The big Chevys, and the f-150 corner well and can pull highly respectable ring times once you know how to handle them! Im on holiday at th mo without access to my PS2, but Ill post some of my times/configs here once I get home.

Also,.... after my most recent episode of savegame corruption I decided to win as many races as possible with trucks, and that extends to alot of races (including tuning grandprix, supercar challenge and enduo races).

The trucks make an interesting sideline, but why add truck races...... Just test your truckin skills by entering them in races against shiny little cars with whiney turbo engines.

BTW, if youre thinking of flaming me.... I also enjoy shiny little cars with whiney turbos, and pretty much every type of driving experience on offer in the game. I think the big trucks add nicely to the range for a bit of a laugh and even some serious racing,..... now all we need are some Aussie V8 Utes!