GT5 Physics - Spec 2.0

  • Thread starter CodeRedR51
  • 479 comments
  • 65,969 views

Do you like the new Physics?

  • Love it!

    Votes: 452 69.6%
  • Were better before 2.0

    Votes: 35 5.4%
  • Feels the same to me?

    Votes: 162 25.0%

  • Total voters
    649
Sims can only replicate so much. I bet you can trash those guys in the a real race because of all the tangibles not felt in a sim (car heat, gravity, steering response, your own sweat...).

yup, whats missing in a sim are the actual inputs from the outside world, more accurate sense of speed, sense and feel of weight transfer, G forces, plus as a race driver, there is always this one tiny bit of fear factor... in a sim, you just restart the session if you crashed :)

non the less, i enjoy GT5 alot and play it frequently.

Next real life race is this weekend at the Nurburgring using the GT5's in game Nurburgring Type V layout :)
 
To all the iRacing dudes coming here with superiority I just wonna say
1- Gt5 is a console sim, just the fact people are comparing it to other PC simulators is a good result.
2- iRacing will be physically and graphically outclassed by rFactor 2 next year so calm down, it's the evolution nothing can be "the best" for ever. :)
 
yup, whats missing in a sim are the actual inputs from the outside world, more accurate sense of speed, sense and feel of weight transfer, G forces, plus as a race driver, there is always this one tiny bit of fear factor... in a sim, you just restart the session if you crashed :)

non the less, i enjoy GT5 alot and play it frequently.

Next real life race is this weekend at the Nurburgring using the GT5's in game Nurburgring Type V layout :)

Would love to hear your laptime and a car what you're using there, best luck to you there :)
 
I just signed up for iRacing to drive MX5 Miatas at Mid Ohio. I also race in the real world in an MX5 Miata... guess where... at Mid Ohio. No video game or sim can accurately simulate the real world. You just can't properly simulate the g forces. You feel the handling of a real world car through your butt and hips then your eyes and ears. In all sims and video games you only have your eyes first, then maybe some force feedback in a wheel. Still not realistic.

hit-the-nail-on-the-head.jpg


That pretty much sums it up. Anybody who's ever done a track day or taken a high-performance driving school will tell you the same thing. There's only so much games can do to simulate the real world experience. And the lack of centrifugal forces on your body. among other stimuli, plays a huge roll in being able to drive a car at the limit in the real world. That kind of stimuli allows you to develop a feel for when you're approaching the limit of grip and adhesion that you just can't get sitting in front of a TV. Better racing games try to simulate this through the FFB effects, but of course by the time you feel the steering go limp, the front tires are already sliding. That's why, for example, the Skip Barber or the SCCA Spec Racer are so tricky to drive in iRacing. Because little extra sensory clues in the real car, that you'd get from the seat of your pants, that would naturally allow you to compensate and make small corrections in the throttle or steering angle or brake pressure, before they become a problem, are simply missing in the game. And as a result, those cars, and others, often seem impossibly difficult at the limit, because you're simply 'chasing' the car and reacting to it when it's too late.


I have to question the adoration for iRacing over any other PC sim too. And I have to question whether it's worth the cost of all that content and a year's "rental" over a good PC sim like the GTRs or LFS. Or even GT5. I've played Prologue, which isn't as good as GT5 in most areas, and felt remarkably like I was racing in one of my sims. Some people say the same thing about Forza 4.

Games like in iRacing, have a clear advantage in that they laser scan the tracks, so you know at least the track overlays are reasonably accurate compared to their real world counter parts. And iRacing itself, is constantly tweaking and updating the software in an attempt to provide it's customers with a physics model and tire model which is as close as possible, to the real thing, in a commercial product. I think Netkar Pro is the only other commercial sim that can truly make such a claim. iRacing is hardly perfect. There are clear and known bugs and things they could and should improve. But I guess the big difference between iRacing and other PC sims, or even GT5 is that they have different priorities and goals they have to meet.

There's some great content for Rfactor or Race 07. And those games 'feel' pretty good and are a lot of fun. But there's also some pretty shoddy content out there too. And you never know if that data is being extrapolated from real world figures or from some kid in a basement who's never even driven a real car before. Likewise, a console game, like GT5, has to appeal to a very broad audience. By far, the bulk of the millions who purchased GT5 are not real life racers or even weekend track day warriors, who have a better idea than most how a car performs at the limit, lap after lap, under closed conditions. The 'average' GT5 player is simply a casual gamer who like cars. And throughout the design process, PD has to keep this in mind. And if they forget, Sony will remind them very quickly. That said, they seem to have created a very fine simulation. At least on the surface.

Getting a car in a game to 'look and feel' like a real car and having a car in a racing sim 'perform' like it's real world counter part, based on dozens and dozens of data points, that take into account the friction generated by the tires, the track temperature, slip angle, aerodynamic drag, etc, is a difference of intent.

Few people are really privy to kind of details PD takes into consideration in it's physics model. So these kind of comparisons are always tough to make. The PS3 is a closed system and we can't just examine the code to see what it's doing. GT5 'feels' pretty good but is it really accurate? The lack of roll-overs, the differences in physics between online and offline, the lack of a comprehensive tire model, all suggest that GT looks and 'feels' pretty good but that in essence, PD's goal was to make a game that was enjoyable to play, above all else. In that, at least, I think they succeeded.
 
Last edited:
How about the crash and rollover physics?
It still takes a monumental effort to roll over a car and I can't help but feel that there's some kind of "godly force" which strives to put the car back on its four wheels, but when rolling over and crashing, cars appear to "float" in the air less than before the patch.
 
Would love to hear your laptime and a car what you're using there, best luck to you there :)

Porsche GT3 Cup S 997 and lap times are in the range of 8mins:30 to 8mins: 40 depending on traffic.

Here's highlights + fastest lap from my last race 2 weeks ago

 
Is it me or has the changed physics made you faster? before the update I would be doing 1:53's around suzuka..502bhp 1100kg 614PP..yellowhat toms GTR...on my third lap since finishing the update I done a 1:52:296, the car feels more grippy etc...Anyone else?
 
I can't access my PS3 for a few days, so I was wondering if anyone can test if the crash/rollover physics are any different.

In the new intro it clearly shows a rally car get a little nudge whilst going over a small jump and it goes into a massive roll. Which would NOT happen like that in the game.

So I'm wondering if that's just been staged for the intro, or if it's a hint that it's easier to roll over now.
 
As to the real-life sensory inputs, I'm going to love having an in-car view for standard (non-premium) cars. Lacking g-forces, the in-car view allows me to pick up the subtle rotation of reaching slip-angle visually. Actually, I thought Prologue did that visual cue the best! Downloading 2.0 now, I'll report back what I think in a bit.
 
I can't access my PS3 for a few days, so I was wondering if anyone can test if the crash/rollover physics are any different.
Read my post above.

In the new intro it clearly shows a rally car get a little nudge whilst going over a small jump and it goes into a massive roll. Which would NOT happen like that in the game.
Rollovers appear to be faster, but still very hard to intiate.
Playing around with the handbrake, tall cars and moderately grippy sports tires alone isn't enough to roll over a car at any speed or even lift one or more wheels. Tall bumps (such as the infamous one in Trial Mountain) or very grippy tires (racing soft tires) are still needed.
Tires still don't seem to hop and react in a non-linear, non-smooth manner when sliding at a high angle (and low tire rotation speed).
Going sideways into sand traps or the grass doesn't seem to have any particular effect on cars either.
Thinking about it, low speed tire physics still appears to be faulty, as Griffith500 noticed.
 
Last edited:
As if i was blessed with ABS on my first car? does that happen these days?

I shouldn't have to mention all the other simulators out there that don't require ABS to brake without locking/tankslapping at more than 30% pressure? Problem with GT5 is the brakes are about 50% pressure as soon as you touch the brake pedal. In a real car you can push the brake pedal a decent ammount before any real pressure is applied, after the bite point locking becomes easy, but that is the art of braking at the threshold and controling the car with suble changes in brake on/off pressure... this is nothing like the way GT5 brakes. Obviously the more grip you add to the tyres the less obvious the problem is, as the grip would cause the tyres to require more braking power in order to lock up.

ABS braking in GT5 is more realistic than non ABS braking on non ABS cars, and ABS braking isn't realistic in GT5. My problem with GT5 driving (brakes) model was that if you drove the cars like real cars, or drove them like you would in other sims (iRacing/Netkar) you would lock the brakes up and/or tank slap every corner. So the only option to not have to drive with twinkle toe braking, while lapping seconds slower is to use ABS.


Sadly, the patch did not fix this, personally i still think it feels the same. Great game all the same, but still no realistic braking.


Edit : Pre-empt, for those who didnt read my last post - Yes i have tried changing the brake balance, and no the problem is not with me, its with the game.


hey you should definitely give the nixim mod a go, totally transforms braking feel and in game braking results, zero abs no more tankslapping and locking etc. seriously try it its very cheap too i think, 38 dollars.
 
After readin some of these replies, im ashamed to say that i hate the new physics or i havent got used to them yet. Every time i brake, the back overtakes the front of the car and i spin, ive got brake bias 10/0 front/back. Any tips on how to increas grip, ive got horridic understeer too :(
 
Transition from grip to slip is more smooth. There's more grip and it's easier to do minute changes with the steering. Brakes are easier to modulate, and FFB has improved to the point that I can *feel* what's happening. For example, FGT is easy to drive now, earlier it was a nightmare.

May I ask you what kind of steering wheel you use for GT5?
 
After readin some of these replies, im ashamed to say that i hate the new physics or i havent got used to them yet. Every time i brake, the back overtakes the front of the car and i spin, ive got brake bias 10/0 front/back. Any tips on how to increas grip, ive got horridic understeer too :(

Dude. Change brake bias to 4, 3 or something like that.

10, 0 means only the front brakes are active. Of course you will spin. The front of the car has brakes applied, whereas the back of your car is not being slowed at all. If that was your setup prior, I can only conclude 2.0 has improved physics, because if you only had front brakes in real life, things would not go well.

Understeer is more noticeable, I've found. But I would adjust your brakes first, before you attempt any other tuning.
 
Uhhhh lower the brake bias. EDIT ^^^^^ yahtzeee

That sensitivity, so you're probably braking as hard as possible without meaning to every time you brake.

I love how easy it is to mess up now. It makes me focus a lot more and adjust my mistakes with better precision from all the focusing lol.
 
10/0 means you will get massive understeer if you aren't able to control your braking. Are you sure you didn't set it to 0/10 ?
I regularly use settings like 9/3 (or similar) with the ABS off and I have no problems.
 
Absolutely amazing physics update. :bowdown:

The car now does just what I intented, I never get a feeling (so far) that I'm left wondering "why did that happen?". Everything is more refined - braking is more sensitive, throttle response and car behaviour under acceleration is much more smooth & natural, cornering is believable. There's just so much more sense in everything, those oddities are gone.

My test was done using the Lexus LFA, oil changed & fully broken in, otherwise completely stock. (Sport Hard Tyres)

My pre Spec 2.0 laptime was 7'10.884 and I just broke that doing 7'10.413 :D There's little time in both of those laps but not much more than 0,5-1,0sec. So the times with this car & with these conditions are really similar, even though the laps felt completely different. Pre spec 2.0 was hard work, now I just enjoyed every second of the driving. I could command the car in a completely different way - there's just so much more control now. 👍

Pre Spec 2.0 lap:

 
10/0 means you will get massive understeer if you aren't able to control your braking. Are you sure you didn't set it to 0/10 ?
I regularly use settings like 9/3 (or similar) with the ABS off and I have no problems.

He's probably turning as he's doing it so the car just doesn't follow like it should with most of the braking power at the front wheels.

I would like to be right this time.
 
After readin some of these replies, im ashamed to say that i hate the new physics or i havent got used to them yet. Every time i brake, the back overtakes the front of the car and i spin, ive got brake bias 10/0 front/back. Any tips on how to increas grip, ive got horridic understeer too :(

Hm, I have only played for about an hour today with Spec 2, but maybe I can give you a advice.

My favorite cars in this game are the F40, Enzo and the SL600 (the R129).
The latter two have your so called "horridic understeer".

I always rise the ride hight at the front and lower it on the back. Maybe its just me, but it really helps me. Also, trying to get more weight into the rear helps too (Call me crazy, but I looove to drive with a 40/60 balance! And with cars like the enzo, Im always several seconds faster then with a 50/50 balance).

Today I tuned my SL600 like this and it worked again.
 
Spec 2.0 lap please! :)

I'll give it another go still (the coming days) and will upload a lap then 👍 Still of course learning the new physics so there might be some time still hidden :) I'll upload it to the Nordschleife laptimes thread. :cheers:
 
I've found the X2010 much easier to drive now. I've always hated that car but now I understand what it's doing via the wheel feedback. Now I like the bloody thing!
 
It really feels as though, as others alluded to, that the 'gravity' is up a bit, and the other factors adjusted to bring the simulation back into to balance. Everything seems nicely weighted now!
 
Back