GT5 Physics - Spec 2.0

[KoAStR]

try 3/0 brake balance and call me in the morning. 0 isn't "off", it's just 1 level less than 1. Works great with my Nixim mod.

Very counter intuitive but nice observation their. 👍
I will have to go home and try this as I always drive with ABS = 0 and there's some cars I feel I just can't get the settings low enough to stop that wild tyre destroying lock up in panic situations.

I've used 0 at the back before as a psuedo line-locker function for some sweet standstills.
I'll test your theory out with 0 / 0 front and back just to make sure 0 isnt off as you've suggested

 

[Lain]

I just signed up for iRacing to drive MX5 Miatas at Mid Ohio. I also race in the real world in an MX5 Miata... guess where... at Mid Ohio. No video game or sim can accurately simulate the real world. You just can't properly simulate the g forces. You feel the handling of a real world car through your butt and hips then your eyes and ears. In all sims and video games you only have your eyes first, then maybe some force feedback in a wheel. Still not realistic.

I agree with you, except for the part where you say "You just can't"

Never say something's impossible. I can totally imagine a system in the future that could directly interface with one's brain to provide an absolutely real-feeling driving sim.

 

[DAIR]

I agree with you, except for the part where you say "You just can't"

Never say something's impossible. I can totally imagine a system in the future that could directly interface with one's brain to provide an absolutely real-feeling driving sim.

Well at the moment no system within the general public can.

 

[CSLACR]

Didn't see a thread for this, so I apologize if there is one. Mods can move or lock.

What does everyone think of the new physics?

I for one am loving the changes. Things that I noticed right off the bat:

• Better feel through the wheel
• Small corrections are more subtle (not as twitchy)
• Suspension feels like it's working correctly (absorbs bumps better)
• Overall improved for the better

Better More feel through the wheel.
Small corrections are more subtle (not as twitchy)

That's all I can say for certain at this point, I really don't see a big difference.
I know there's more feel in the wheel, I just don't know that it's "better", just more.
The lack of ridiculous twitchy-ness from past I noticed immediately, and love it.
But I do think it was minor tweaks.

 

[Raitziger]

I can also add that there is more feel. Drifting felt bit different and bit harder at first but this might be because grip levels were increased.

So there is more grip. Sports hard tyres are not anymore realistic option for regular sports car tyres. I would recommend to use normal soft or normal medium tyres for accurate laptimes.I will do more test later to verify this.

I clocked 1:02.573 in Tstukuba with sports hard tyres and Keichi did 1:06.5 in normal conditions with BMW M3 CSL. With comfort soft I managed 1:04.6.

All done using Fanatec Turbo S

 

[Beccosinho]

Played a few games online last night and wow, the grip is just brilliant! Was using my MP4-12C on the Nurburgring, and no one could even get close (even managed a 6:50, after making mistakes). The response is just great! The tyre deg is so much better! The correction needed now when the car starts to drift is just perfect! Well done PD:tup:

 

[CSLACR]

I can also add that there is more feel. Drifting felt bit different and bit harder at first but this might be because grip levels were increased.

So there is more grip. Sports hard tyres are not anymore realistic option for regular sports car tyres. I would recommend to use normal soft or normal medium tyres for accurate laptimes.I will do more test later to verify this.

I clocked 1:02.573 in Tstukuba with sports hard tyres and Keichi did 1:06.5 in normal conditions with BMW M3 CSL. With Sport soft I managed 1:04.6.

All done using Fanatec Turbo S

I tested earlier and there was in fact, not more grip.
Just easier to control now, so your lap times may lower, but mine haven't.

 

[ItsHim]

Weight transfer under braking is much more refined. I would almost say: really noticeable for the first time.

Good stuff, this physics upgrade.

 

[Catlin]

Damnit,now i need to test some more,i only done the Laguna Seca 200 miles endurance since the update,but i was on autopilot for 2 hours so i probably didnt take it as much as i should.

 

[amar212]

Well, unfortunately online and offline physics still differ...

There is also still no sense of understeer whatsoever in the steering wheel (Fanatec in my case), making impossible for a "drive by feel" guy like me to judge corner entry speed accurately. Maybe this just isn't possible with PD's physics engine, or maybe they are using the motors so much for other things that they just can't program in that "understeer lightening" in the wheels. Regardless on the reason, I hope it's something that PD can eventually fix.

> my personal impression is how online and offline physics do not differ nor ever had - the physics is the same all the time. Difference is how offline physics lack some variables like tire heatup/fuel load, track pavement temperature etc. But nevermind that.

> Fanatec wheel issues > I have both G25 and Fanatec GT2/CSP pedals for some time now and I've been driving GT5 hell-and-back with both wheels. Unfortunately, my final conclusion regarding usage of Fanatec wheels in GT5 is not really comparable to usage of Logitech wheels. From my extensive testing (not only with GT5, but with other PS3 games as well) I found Fanatec lacking overall impression (sensation) of power-countersteer - which also results with loss of understeer effects because belt-drive can't really cope with the reverb-effects which gear-driven force feedback provides as given.

Fanatec uses belt-drives for it's force feedback effects while Logitech uses gear-driven FF throughout their products. Under no setting - and trust me, I tried everything possible in past months, from downgrading firmwares, Dirft 5, Springs -3/+3, etc.. - Fanatec GT2 just can't replicate that particular sensation of "threading" and keeping the grip in high-speed countersteer maneuvers or reverb-effects when understeering.

Current Supercar Nostalgia Seasonal Event was my final testing ground during last week and my premium testing ground for Spec 2.0 physics and G25/GT2 comparing. While I could easily drive 7.42 laps with my stock Miura (512PP, SH tires) with G25, Fanatec GT2 just can't cope with that laptimes dur to lack of feel on sensation of countersteer and understeer reverb. My best GT2 times were around 7.47 mark with 7.49 as average. We are talking 6 seconds of difference here on the same track, same cars, same AI sequence and same setup.

IMO Despite Fanatec provides better overall impression of the actual wheel and feel of driving (build quality, materials, sensation of the wheel itself, everything technical is really in favor of Thomas's great engineering), actual driving performance in GT5 - and other games on PS3 - still goes in favor of Logitech (G25) wheel.

I strongly believe how main reason for almost impossible high-speed controllable countersteering in small movements is belt-drive and how that problem can't be solved until something is changed on the Fanatec's side.

For instance it feels like proper independent suspension, compared to the pre 2.0 straight axle physics.

I agree and new "Tire Load" screen clearly showcases it. Suspension is now fully-independent and it gives unprecedented feel of control over chasis-movement.

Drafting is tons better, it's not super powered like it used to be, good improvement there.

Draft on "low" setting is now perfect, I agree.

...but this might be because grip levels were increased.

So there is more grip. Sports hard tyres are not anymore realistic option for regular sports car tyres. I would recommend to use normal soft or normal medium tyres for accurate laptimes.I will do more test later to verify this.

All done using Fanatec Turbo S

> I do not think that actual grip-levels were increased, I think how independent suspension has finally added a possibility to abuse longitudinal-pressure of chasis and suspension on front/rear axis in full scope. Result of that is "more grip", but that grip is IMO not produced by "increasing grip levels".

However, I agree that driving some of the sportscars is now much more forgiving than it was on SH compound and how 2.0 sensation of SH tires almost resembles SS compound in pre-2.0. I will also test many of cars later today, especially those that I found perfect to drive on pre-2.0 on SH tires (F40, MP4-12, TVR Tuscan, SLS, SLR, F430, Viper, Corvette C6, NSX).

> Also, Ratzinger and Panjadrum, I would appreciate if both of you would test the your Fanatec wheels on event I've used for my testing described above. I would like to have some second opinions on this issue for purpose of possible improvements through communication with Thomas in the future. Thanx in advance! 👍

 

[Timppaq]

I clocked 1:02.573 in Tstukuba with sports hard tyres and Keichi did 1:06.5 in normal conditions with BMW M3 CSL. With Sport soft I managed 1:04.6.

Sports hard tyres are not anymore realistic option for regular sports car tyres.

I think comparing these times purely in relationship to the tyre compound is questionable. You time is about 6% lower, so if the game is actually modelled / scaled wrongly by just 122m the time would equal the rl time.

More important for me would be what are the tyres that offer similar experience in relation to the grip / performance that the real tyres does. Even if we get the times matching picking a tyre compound, but the feeling would be "wrong", I'd rather have the faster / slower times but more "realistic" feel. The problem is that I don't know how it should feel exactly (few do). I guess this is also the reason we often look at the times (as that's the easies way to compare to real world) when trying to find the tyres that match real world counterparts.

Basically just meaning that you either aim for the realistic times or the realistic experience. This may or may not be the same thing depending of the circumstances. So the bolded part in my opinion is not that straightforward as you put it out. You could be right too, but there's more to it than just the laptimes.

This just as a general remark.

edit,

I agree with amar that the differnet grip levels in different situations are not made by adding / removing some magical "grip level", instead they are a result of more refined simulation of many things.

 

[Raitziger]

Basically just meaning that you either aim for the realistic times or the realistic experience. This may or may not be the same thing depending of the circumstances.
.

I agree 100%. Now we just need a experienced racing driver to comment if comfort medium or soft tyres feel realistic

Also, Ratzinger and Panjadrum, I would appreciate if both of you would test the your Fanatec wheels on event I've used for my testing described above. I would like to have some second opinions on this issue for purpose of possible improvements through communication with Thomas in the future. Thanx in advance! 👍

I will test this today. However I do not have other wheels to compare.

 

[DAIR]

Sorry but as one or two of you have already pointed out. No game can fully allow you to experience what it like on a real race track. It can only be simulated.

Many factors come into all of this. Wind resistance.... That nagging thought at the back of your mind asking whether or not you can really take a particular corner at your current speed... Tyre presser... Many things.

These are just some of the things you dont have to worry about when playing/using a simulator or game. So I find it funny when some people jump up and down screaming I just beat a real life lap time. I've driven (in real life) on race tracks before... And games down even come close to what its really like.

These simulators can only teach you so much (How to take corners, how/when to brake etc etc etc).

Right, Now on to the update. As I mentioned before the only downer for me is the shocking Standard car Interior view. Its shocking and unacceptable.

As for the other additions.... As small as they are I have nothing bad to say about them.

 

[amar212]

I will test this today. However I do not have other wheels to compare.

I presume, I can only ask you to test stock Miura (512PP +/-) on Sport Hard compound on Supercar Nostalgia Seasonal Event on Nordschleife (1 lap).

Under no circumstances or wheel-setup i couldn't match my G25 time (7.42) with GT2 wheel and my best times were 7.47/7.48.

Also notice how I opted for more-less clean racing so I didn't bump AI cars on the track with exception of small paint-trading.

Thank you in advance for your effort 👍

 

[ghostrider135]

Had a crack with it briefly I quite like it definitely more grip from the car and it actually goes where you point it I think telepathy is involved quite possibly now but don't quote me on that .

 

[DAIR]

Are you people using pads? Ive never had issues pointing cars in any direction.....

 

[Raitziger]

ISR-guys also said that they were faster with G25 than fanatec wheel on some review. Were you amar nearly as fast with fanatec compared to G25 before the update, or is difference just something you now realized?

I personally have to use drift mode 3-4 for wheel to be fast enough for drifting or "formula fast driving " .(100 ff on wheel and 4 on in game)

Also if someone has T500 RS or Fanatec carrera wheel, please tell how game now feels.

 

[amar212]

ISR-guys also said that they were faster with G25 than fanatec wheel on some review. Were you amar nearly as fast with fanatec compared to G25 before the update, or is difference just something you now realized?

I was also faster before more-less, but I have never driven such consecutive race in order to get such concrete testing results and now in 2.0 the difference is more apparent because of the new suspension physics where countersteer and reverb-load are much more pronounced.

My current GT2 settings are as follows, I found them best for GT5 after many, many testing on various Seasonal Events during my Immaculate Challenges sessions where I tried to achieve same times as with G25:

SEN OFF | FF 80 | SHO 70 | DRI 004/005 | ABS 50 | LIN 0 | DEA 0 | SPR 0/-1 | DPR 0 |

 

[another_jakhole]

Are you people using pads? Ive never had issues pointing cars in any direction.....

I think he's talking about the twitchy-ness of steering in GT5. If you don't know what I mean by that, I should say that unlike in real life, staying in one lane in GT5 isn't so easy because turning just a little can mess you up. I really don't know how to explain it better. I couldn't pinpoint the feeling of it and make a description until someone else did.


Sensitivity! I guess that might be a word to describe it. Steering was too direct, if that makes sense. Unnatural-like.

 

[DAIR]

I think he's talking about the twitchy-ness of steering in GT5. If you don't know what I mean by that, I should say that unlike in real life, staying in one lane in GT5 isn't so easy because turning just a little can mess you up. I really don't know how to explain it better. I couldn't pinpoint the feeling of it and make a description until someone else did.


Sensitivity! I guess that might be a word to describe it. Steering was too direct, if that makes sense. Unnatural-like.

But that will vary from one car to another. The steering of some cars is more sensitive than others... and visa versa

 

[Rosemeyer78]

After installing 2.0, I tested on the Nordschleife 2 cars that have always put me in difficulty.
The RUF BTR ‘86 and the Yellowbird, both standard with sports soft tires ..
(I drive with a steering wheel G27)

I immediately felt the physics difference.
The weight of the machine, load transfers, the work of shock absorbers feels much better..
Reactions are less sudden, the car reacts less violently to small corrections with the steering. Driving remains challenging, but now it's more natural.

I'm very pleased with this update.

 

[another_jakhole]

That sounds so nice ^^^. Like a walk on a newly tweaked beach.

But that will vary from one car to another. The steering of some cars is more sensitive than others... and visa versa

Oh, yea I know what you mean. But that's not what changed.

Just re-read my first example. It should, seriously, make more sense now.

It used to be more difficult to be precise which made it difficult to stay in one lane.

 

[Jay]

> I do not think that actual grip-levels were increased, I think how independent suspension has finally added a possibility to abuse longitudinal-pressure of chasis and suspension on front/rear axis in full scope. Result of that is "more grip", but that grip is IMO not produced by "increasing grip levels".

I agree, what I am finding from my testing since Spec 2 release is Nordschliefe lap times are falling by considerable amounts (5 seconds in some cases) but my Tsukuba times are not, they're much the same with maybe a tiy difference (0.1 max, if that). The Nordschleife being a faster track I thought I would check acceleration to see if any time was gained that way and it hasn't changed at all (same cars/power) but I think with the Nordschleife working the new suspension model so hard for almost a full lap (compared to flat Tsukuba) more speed seems to be is found on it.

I have also found that cars that use Comfort Medium/Soft and Sports Hard all gain faster lap times in a similar way. I personally don't find the Comfort Soft to Sport Hard gap widening, the difference is much the same for me.


I am a little curious with talk of the G25 (I use a G25) being better now since it is supported, maybe that has given me some assistance with the extra speed, I don't really feel it but it only has help a tenth here or there and it mounts up.

 

[ECGadget]

The main thing I've just found out is that tires are a hell of a lot less grippy now... It's soo cool! I think, perhaps I can go as far as saying that GT5 now does feel much much closer to a sim...

 

[Sgt_Snipes_]

Overall I just feel like I can point the car in the right direction better now. One problem I had with the old physics is that with small corrections being twitchy, I would tend to turn into a corner too fast messing up my line. This is no longer a problem. It's awesome!

Its harder to drive x2010 lol

 

[Timppaq]

I agree, what I am finding from my testing since Spec 2 release is Nordschliefe lap times are falling by considerable amounts (5 seconds in some cases) but my Tsukuba times are not, they're much the same with maybe a tiy difference (0.1 max, if that). The Nordschleife being a faster track I thought I would check acceleration to see if any time was gained that way and it hasn't changed at all (same cars/power) but I think with the Nordschleife working the new suspension model so hard for almost a full lap (compared to flat Tsukuba) more speed seems to be is found on it.

I have also found that cars that use Comfort Medium/Soft and Sports Hard all gain faster lap times in a similar way. I personally don't find the Comfort Soft to Sport Hard gap widening, the difference is much the same for me.

I am a little curious with talk of the G25 (I use a G25) being better now since it is supported, maybe that has given me some assistance with the extra speed, I don't really feel it but it only has help a tenth here or there and it mounts up.

I found during my LFA test (at Nurb, SH's) that the times are pretty much comparable, the difference being that the driving itself is different. At some points my braking distances are longer and at some points they are shorter. Some of this comes from the fact that pre update some corners were incredibly hard to master 'perfectly' as there were these oddities in the physics that forced you to settle for a less great line & style of driving - at some places it just was impossible to drive the line & the way you'd think to be the best & fastest, it just was too difficult. Now these odd places of caution are gone for me and therefore my braking distance is shorter. On the other hand, when there is lateral forces involved (or other less optional braking conditions, like track camber etc..) in the braking zones I feel the braking distances can be longer. Need more testing with other cars of course and overall too - these are just my initial impressions after one night of playong. Anyway this all equals far greater involvement in driving & far greater fun factor.

I might almost say that getting the most out of a car @ Nurb pre Spec 2.0 was herder than it is now. Surely, we're still learning the physics but again, my initial impression.

 

[Raitziger]

Small update I do not seem to have miura, nor 15M credits.

 

[RacingManiac]

Maybe I am just being a wooden dork, I can't tell much of a difference playing with G25 in Spec 2.0. Granted I have not had a chance to drive a big range of cars on a track and compare lap time, but for what I have driven they seem to behave not that different. G25 being supported is cool but I have assigned all the button exactly as it was and I've changed nothing. Only think I can sorta pick up is the turn-in seem a bit more "positive", the brake seem to modulate better. But my brake setup is hard to be consistent as I am using the AP electrix load cell on my pedal and the brake is heavily dependent on how I calibrate it(I've yet to devise a method to do it exactly the same every time), so it may just be how I did it yesterday....

 

[BrandonW77]

Maybe I am just being a wooden dork, I can't tell much of a difference playing with G25 in Spec 2.0. Granted I have not had a chance to drive a big range of cars on a track and compare lap time, but for what I have driven they seem to behave not that different. G25 being supported is cool but I have assigned all the button exactly as it was and I've changed nothing. Only think I can sorta pick up is the turn-in seem a bit more "positive", the brake seem to modulate better. But my brake setup is hard to be consistent as I am using the AP electrix load cell on my pedal and the brake is heavily dependent on how I calibrate it(I've yet to devise a method to do it exactly the same every time), so it may just be how I did it yesterday....

There aren't any huge changes but there are a ton of subtle changes that add up to make it a really different driving experience. I run the Capp Cup league and over the last 2-3 months I've driven pretty much nothing but the Capp so I'm incredibly familiar with it. We had a long testing session last night at different tracks and I lost track of how many times I/we said "that felt different!". There is definitely sharper turn-in, more stability in the rear-end and more body/chassis roll through the corner. There's a lot more communication from the car. It really felt like a whole new vehicle, and it just felt.......I don't know.........right!

 

[RacingManiac]

Much like you though I stuck driving with cars that I was familiar with to test it out. I've been driving a lot of FWD car this summer in GT5 since I started autocrossing my DD. And I've tooling around a 08 Civic Type R in game for the last few days so I hop into one of those are drove around the track that I've used to setup the car(Grand Valley East). The behavior doesn't seem that different and the rotation of the car and stuff seem the same. Just as mentioned the turn-in seems more positive and reassured. I actually have not tried any "regular" RWD car yet. Tried a few LMP cars though(to check out the standard car view) around Monza, I guess I used to remember them being twichy-er, but since I don't put that much time in them I just can't be a good judge of that...