GT5 Sound Thread

  • Thread starter Marry_Me_GT
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Racin'Jason
i don't think it's hitting the undercarriage. i think it's pebbles hitting the wheel wells. that would be classified as road noise i think (for a game like GT).
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That video sounds like the microphone was in the trunk (probably taped to the trunk floor or stuffed beside the fuel cell) and not in the cockpit itself. Lots of exhaust drone & transmission whine...what you didn't hear were other cars, wind, or the front tires singing.
 
chepu
Hey guys, Watching youtube videos, I believe I found why GT sounds lack ''realism''.

I believe its due to car/engine sounds not having proper Intake Sound, I mean, the sound of the intake open while at WOT, you see, GT5 P and booth demos and all those when in Exterior Cam, you can Hear the exhaust pretty clearly and sound really good, but my guess the problem is up front in the car, when you choose Cockpit, Bonnet or 1st Person View you get a pretty dull noise.

As an example of that noise, here is a Clio With Individual Throttle Bodies.

[YOUTUBE-]v6c6RVvWQoQ[/YOUTUBE-]

Also a game with this part of the sound is Forza and Colin Mcrae Dirt 2, both games have pretty good sounds, even though GT sound Mixing and all that is pretty top Notch.

So any thoughts?
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Mind you there is a huge difference between a car with OEM airbox, and hood down than one with no hood and an open airbox. The induction noise can sometimes be as loud and boomy/droney as a sports exhuats in some cars!
I used to know a guy who had a car that sounded like it had a sports exhaust, but it was just the sound of his car with the airbox removed :)

Anyway some of the tuned cars in Prologue have that type of sound

I'm quite happy with this SLS sound, especially considering it's recorded off a TV. If all the Premium cars in GT5 sound like this, you can't complain 👍
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Of course I know the difference between OEM airbox and Individual Throttle Bodies, but I think thats the easiest example to demonstrate Induction noise.

You should try the Tuned 350Z in Prologue, it has somewhat that induction noise but sadly its mixed with the Exhaust.

And as far as I know, the best Intake sound you could Get in a Game is in Live For Speed, It doesnt has the best samples but hearing your engine noise when you do wide open throttle is Top Notch, so the car sounds pretty different in Acceleration and in Deceleration, and that In my opinion is what lacks in GT Sounds.
 
chepu
Of course I know the difference between OEM airbox and Individual Throttle Bodies, but I think thats the easiest example to demonstrate Induction noise.

You should try the Tuned 350Z in Prologue, it has somewhat that induction noise but sadly its mixed with the Exhaust.

And as far as I know, the best Intake sound you could Get in a Game is in Live For Speed, It doesnt has the best samples but hearing your engine noise when you do wide open throttle is Top Notch, so the car sounds pretty different in Acceleration and in Deceleration, and that In my opinion is what lacks in GT Sounds.
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LFS doesn't really use samples though, it has a synth sound engine, it actually generates the individual pops of each cyclinder combustion cycle.
 
I still want the turbo spooling sound!


This might be over the top, but possible with a large enough turbo, larger psi etc.

Why not.
 
I'll just leave this here...*quietly walks away*:dopey:


500x_i_dare_you.jpg

p.s. Holy crap!:drool:
 
There should indeed be more sound differences between all the different turbos kits and different car models (from a very slight whistle to a very powerful turbulent noise overpowering all other noise sources), blow-off valves (not all sound the same, many of them don't actually make any perceivable sound (on completely stock cars at least).

Turbo sounds also should be closely related to the generated turbo pressure, not treated as a separate thing as in past games.

Of course, supercharger whine/noise has to be included too - but I haven't much experience here so I'll leave this to people who know more about them.
 
CoolColJ
LFS doesn't really use samples though, it has a synth sound engine, it actually generates the individual pops of each cyclinder combustion cycle.
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It does use samples, but they're typically very short (around 0.1 s). They have a wide frequency content, but coloured to suit the target sound. The audio engine layers multiple instances of this sample according to the engine in question for the exhaust sound, and this is then heavily filtered (using a custom configuration of zeros and poles, probably, to match the theoretical filtering associated with the exhaust system). You can tweak some of these effects in-game.

Some time ago, a fella over on the LFS fora spent a lot of time experimenting with different samples (most of which he generated himself) and the in-engine settings to overhaul the game's sound. These were later adopted in an official patch.

It still leaves a lot to be desired; namely a proper intake sound and it could still benefit from tweaked samples. This is an area that represents the biggest challenge in such a fine-grained method.

-----------------------------

As for superchargers, they're very easy to model compared with turbos, since it's just the pattern of the edges of the screws that determines the sound they make - there's very little difference from one design to another (except things like screw pitch and pulley ratios, and centrifugal types). I haven't given much thought to turbine-based compression, but I'm certain that there's much to consider if one wants to do it properly - although I think the major problems are probably lag and the pressure regulation (BOVs, wastegates etc.) and these should indeed come from the physics engine, rather than be "invented" in the sound engine.

I really hope there's a real richness to the diversity of these sorts of aspiration effects in GT5, since it was odd that every turbo car sounded the same in GT2, for example.
 
Griffith500
It does use samples, but they're typically very short (around 0.1 s). They have a wide frequency content, but coloured to suit the target sound. The audio engine layers multiple instances of this sample according to the engine in question for the exhaust sound, and this is then heavily filtered (using a custom configuration of zeros and poles, probably, to match the theoretical filtering associated with the exhaust system). You can tweak some of these effects in-game.

Some time ago, a fella over on the LFS fora spent a lot of time experimenting with different samples (most of which he generated himself) and the in-engine settings to overhaul the game's sound. These were later adopted in an official patch.

It still leaves a lot to be desired; namely a proper intake sound and it could still benefit from tweaked samples. This is an area that represents the biggest challenge in such a fine-grained method.
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Sure, but you can create a crossplane V8 engine, which none of the cars in the game have, with a third party hacking engine, by changing the cyclinder count and engine configuration, and it actually sounds like an American style V8! No samples used for that.
Same for an inline 6, which actually sounds like the RB26 in the Skyline. And the sound changes as you change the engine capacity size

examples
 
Oh I know, but if you choose a V8 it actually sounds like a flat-plane V8, so the trick was, (at least when I was faffing with those editing tools) to select 5 cylinders and the V configuration. Sounded very similar to a V8. A more accurate choice (sound wise) is flat 8, which is still possible to some extent with the new generation of tools designed for later versions of the game.

It's fairly fine-grained, but it does use samples.
A sample (unique, more or less, to each car) is used as a "pulse" sound (rather than it being generated, which is a key distinction) and this sample is, more or less, a noise burst. This is then layered using a battery of delays according to the engine configuration used and passed through filters, which change according to a slew of variables - one being engine displacement and two others governing the engine's peak power vs. low-down torque. Then there's the in-game sound panel, for some of the filters and the general mix, among other things.


It's a very good system, since you can get that startling range of sounds (although I think most of the configurations are hard-coded) and the timbre changes throughout the rev-range are truly dynamic and many in number, rather than changing only when blending between (a limited number of) samples. But, it is limited by lacking certain components of the sound and using less-than-optimal samples.
 
I don't know ColJ. I don't like either sound in your LFS videos. The V8 doesn't sound like a crispy
V8. Just kind-of fat and low. And i don't think the RB sounds like a RB at all.
 
CoolColJ
Sure, but you can create a crossplane V8 engine, which none of the cars in the game have, with a third party hacking engine, by changing the cyclinder count and engine configuration, and it actually sounds like an American style V8! No samples used for that.
Same for an inline 6, which actually sounds like the RB26 in the Skyline. And the sound changes as you change the engine capacity size

examples
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Those don't sound too good. 👎
 
Rey-FD
Those don't sound too good. 👎
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It doesn't sound real because it's generated in real time, using a form of modelling, not using recorded samples of the engines in question.
But even then I can hear the character of those engine types it's attempting to model. But it does crap out on a V12 :)
 
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I would take GT2 sound over LFS it's that bad. Hats off for trying (what was) a completely new approach, but hats firmly back on and out the door once I heard the result.

FMOD has the best chance for becoming the future be-all and end-all of sound engines, it has the technical precision and the all important emotion factor. So far those two have remained at opposite ends of the spectrum with one often compromising the other. I believe FMOD is the only sound engine in existence that shows the most potential to please both camps for once, only it's still way to premature at the moment.

Currently then, the situation from what I have been reading in this thread for the last year, it seems that encompassing all platforms; PGR4 has the greatest production car sounds, followed closely by Forza 3. While rFactor (ISI sound engine) and it's various mods have the greatest sounding race cars and historic cars ready to be virtually experienced in-cockpit as of today.
 
Carbonfiber
I would take GT2 sound over LFS it's that bad. Hats off for trying (what was) a completely new approach, but hats firmly back on and out the door once I heard the result.

FMOD has the best chance for becoming the future be-all and end-all of sound engines, it has the technical precision and the all important emotion factor. So far those two have remained at opposite ends of the spectrum with one often compromising the other. I believe FMOD is the only sound engine in existence that shows the most potential to please both camps for once, only it's still way to premature at the moment.

Currently then, the situation from what I have been reading in this thread for the last year, it seems that encompassing all platforms; PGR4 has the greatest production car sounds, followed closely by Forza 3. While rFactor (ISI sound engine) and it's various mods have the greatest sounding race cars and historic cars ready to be virtually experienced in-cockpit as of today.
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FMOD already is one of the preferred vehicles for game sound, but it really doesn't offer too much more than other APIs with respect to car sounds. One thing that it does offer is DSP, but the only boon there is that it's already integrated, so because most people would want to write their own DSP modules irrespective, the integration would be trivial.

Hopefully, in the coming months, the promised sound upgrade for GPL will surface; this is being achieved with FMOD. But really, it wouldn't matter which API were being used. It's more about the samples and the blending of those samples.
 
CoolColJ
Mind you there is a huge difference between a car with OEM airbox, and hood down than one with no hood and an open airbox. The induction noise can sometimes be as loud and boomy/droney as a sports exhuats in some cars!
I used to know a guy who had a car that sounded like it had a sports exhaust, but it was just the sound of his car with the airbox removed :)

Anyway some of the tuned cars in Prologue have that type of sound

I'm quite happy with this SLS sound, especially considering it's recorded off a TV. If all the Premium cars in GT5 sound like this, you can't complain 👍
-
Click to expand...


What about the driver's helmet?
That may soften up some sound.
 
PGR/Rfactor etc maybe ok as static set pieces, but these sounds don't respond like a real car when you vary the throttle and as power delivery fluctuates. The expressiveness is what is really lacking right now. In some cars there is a certain part of the rev band that growls really nicely when the cams switch over. My last car was like that, and it just makes you want to keep passing through that area, over and over again. Right now no games create that kind of emotional aspect

Racedude
What about the driver's helmet?
That may soften up some sound.
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Wear a real helmet....

Here is Forza 3's SLS, same ol F3 warble in there. The real SLS doesn't sound like that, especially on the outside of the car.
Kinda sounds like it's running on a dyno... :P


Nice onboard at Yas Marina
 
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J-KiLLA24
That does NOT sound like a vaccuum cleaner! Get those ears of yours checked son.:D
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Get those yours! They didn't bother recording upper rev sample under full load and therefore we can clearly hear another unhappy sample from 4k rpm fastened up to 8k the same way as Prologue's Audi R8 and BMW M3. That mighty Jaguar racing engine should have all the colours, tones, pops and cracks of the sound and it's just sad vacuum cleaner. :indiff:
 
There's an issue with that particular car, in that you're discouraged to give it the beans and are "not allowed" to rev the nuts off it. He even says that in the video, so it's probably not surprising that the upper-area of the rev-range is mis-represented.

I know, other cars have the same problem, but I have a theory that if all the sounds we've heard so far are indeed placeholders, they may well have skimped on the number of sample points, considering it sounds hand-mixed from multiple other samples.
 
Just a quick question that popped into my head for anyone who has played the demo. Has the wind noise generated in cockpit view been toned down? This is something that really bugged me in Prologue when travelling at high speeds and you can't hear the engine.
 

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