- 15,972
- Devon UK
- johnboy-1975-
GT5's Game-Breaking Online Flaw (OP Updated: 11 Feb)
- Thread starter MGR
- 1,131 comments
- 97,276 views
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
Regarding the "fast bug". I have definitely seen some whacky stuff happen. What you might interpret as lagging cars around you, could actually be a combination of them slowing down and you speeding up as your clocks attempt to synchronize. If this happens on the right lap in the right spot, it could easily improve your lap time by a few 10ths.
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,332
- United States
- 1,106
- NC/NoVA
- dudeondacouch
- 4,605
- United States
- carracerptp
I think we need to find out how boost works?
If it plays with the frames and time keeping of the game, not just adding HP to cars then it could be the problem as it would show that the simulation can still work with that.
I think at some time before spec 2 came out, I was in a shuffle race in a good car "Audi something" and wasted the field, then I got the same car the next race and wasted the field, handled like it had a force dragging it faster.
Got the same car a week later (same track, same host), nothing like that handling before.
I didn't look at the lap times so I don't know how much faster it was that day.
Someone else got that car and won but it wasn't unbeatable like before.
- 4,605
- United States
- carracerptp
It doesn't happen all the time so, try and find the variables that make it happen.
List of things that I think can be called variables.
- NAT type
- Router setting
- Personal internet speed (Ping, upload, download)
- ISP
- Location
- Wheels (FFB, Pedals)
- DS3 or other similar controller
- Game data install, DLC
- PS3 model (Fat, slim, UK, US....)
- Game disk (UK, US, Japan...)
- TV resolution (1080, 720, SD, PAL, NTSC)
- Track
- Cars (premium - standard)
- Driving view (Bumper, in-car, hover, roof)
- Racing Suits?(maybe, just a guess)
- 7,711
- Indiana-USA
- OwensRacing
The time thing keeps me thinking it's relative.
As well MW3 was rumored to be nerfing people with fast connections. Basically they wanted the slower connects to experience a lag free game. While doing so they held the fast people to long and caused severe lag for them. After a few updates I don't get magically appearing people. Only ever happened on this COD for me. Now my game scores and all are normal.
So is there something like this in GT5?
Is such a thing even possible?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xqrIcsNJHY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
As well MW3 was rumored to be nerfing people with fast connections. Basically they wanted the slower connects to experience a lag free game. While doing so they held the fast people to long and caused severe lag for them. After a few updates I don't get magically appearing people. Only ever happened on this COD for me. Now my game scores and all are normal.
So is there something like this in GT5?
Is such a thing even possible?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xqrIcsNJHY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Last edited:
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
It's happened to to many people with all types of the things I've crossed out for those to still be possibilities, in my opinion.
I didn't get to re-install game data yet,(will in about 40 minutes) but I doubt that is a cause or help, track and car detail seems to be a possibility, but I'm not sure. I've heard standards help the situation, but if it is truly a detail/data problem, then I believe it's just that the PS3 simply can't keep up with everything, in which case if the delete/re-install trick doesn't help, our hands are tied.
I'm pretty sure at this point it's one of two things:
1. Boost bug.
2. Draft bug.
Owens - It's possible, but I haven't heard or developed even a theory for how connections would increase or decrease speed of a car, even in a straight line. I think the timing issue seems better explained by a boost or draft bug. (SuperSic's theory, skipped frame = no input = replays showing everything much differently, etc)
- 1,106
- NC/NoVA
- dudeondacouch
Neither of those things account for the poor handling when one is affected negatively, though.
Even when "Boost" is set to "high" (or "strong" or whatever it is) the lead car doesn't suffer worse driving, the trailing cars are just enabled to catch up, correct?
Even when "Boost" is set to "high" (or "strong" or whatever it is) the lead car doesn't suffer worse driving, the trailing cars are just enabled to catch up, correct?
- 4,605
- United States
- carracerptp
I was thinking it's a "If this guy has this + that guy has that = LAG"
Idea, we get the OP to organize a 16 car room.
Every says there NAT, ISP, Controller, ping, PS3, Racing Suit game disk here.
Run some races, with different cars.
When the lag happens. Ask the guy below the host to leave.
run a short race (1 lap).
He comes back, we get the next guy down to leave and try again.
After that we try groups.
All NAT 1
All NAT 2
All NAT 3
Same track the got lag in the last room.
Then we try all NAT 1 + one NAT 2 guy.
All NAT 2 + one NAT 3 guy.
.............
You get the Idea, I would even put some cars up as prizes in the races to get people to do it.
It might be just to much to organize though.....
I will be waiting for the next patch first, it may just fix everything.........well it could........1 in a 1,000,000 chance but........
I would like to know how it works. Could have some sort of glitch.
Maybe when a room gets lagging we could try turning ON and OFF boost?
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
If you are exploring hardware possibilities it might also help to keep track of...
* ambient temperature
* PS3 location relative to heat/ac sources
* duration of operation
* version/age of PS3
* version/age of everyone else's PS3s including host
Coincidentally, I had this happen several times over the spring and summer but I have not had it occur recently. I keep the house at about 66 degrees during the winter so the PS3 should remain relatively cool compared to someone in a warmer climate. During the summer I only turn the A/C on if ambient temps exceed 85 degrees.
* ambient temperature
* PS3 location relative to heat/ac sources
* duration of operation
* version/age of PS3
* version/age of everyone else's PS3s including host
Coincidentally, I had this happen several times over the spring and summer but I have not had it occur recently. I keep the house at about 66 degrees during the winter so the PS3 should remain relatively cool compared to someone in a warmer climate. During the summer I only turn the A/C on if ambient temps exceed 85 degrees.
nasanu
(Banned)
- 1,429
- Australia
- nasanu
- nasanu
As I see it, there are thing it cant be and things it can be. 'The PS3 can't cope' angle is IMO a dead end. EVERY SINGLE GAME USES 100% OF THE PS3'S ABILITY. It is not like any developer is not going to use all the power available. Some games look better than others because more time has been spent finding ever more clever and time consuming ways to do more in the same amount of time. And as has already been said, offline should push the game engine quite a lot harder.
I also don't believe that a persons internet connection is going to change code on a PS3 as has been suggested. Time needs to be spent thinking of what is possible. For example:
What if the room settings are incorrectly sync'd? I have personally once entered a race with a disallowed car. I can not remember exactly how I did it but I remember it was because there was a lot of lag between pressing the enter track button and my car appearing on the track. I think I was on track and I knew the host was about to change the settings. I hit the back button to exit, then went to hit it again because my car would not leave (lag), but I hit free run button. The game process my first request pulling me back to the lobby, the host changed the settings, then the game processed my second request putting me back on the track. I've never been able to repeat it but I know it is possible to have an illegal car on track (I was 50PP over).
What if something like this happens: Room is set to state 1. Room settings change to state 2 and for some reason a key variable does not get transmitted to some players. Some players start with state 1 and some with state 2. Seems reasonable yet I cant think of a room setting that could account for the loss of grip... Grip reduction does not affect lap times right?
I also don't believe that a persons internet connection is going to change code on a PS3 as has been suggested. Time needs to be spent thinking of what is possible. For example:
What if the room settings are incorrectly sync'd? I have personally once entered a race with a disallowed car. I can not remember exactly how I did it but I remember it was because there was a lot of lag between pressing the enter track button and my car appearing on the track. I think I was on track and I knew the host was about to change the settings. I hit the back button to exit, then went to hit it again because my car would not leave (lag), but I hit free run button. The game process my first request pulling me back to the lobby, the host changed the settings, then the game processed my second request putting me back on the track. I've never been able to repeat it but I know it is possible to have an illegal car on track (I was 50PP over).
What if something like this happens: Room is set to state 1. Room settings change to state 2 and for some reason a key variable does not get transmitted to some players. Some players start with state 1 and some with state 2. Seems reasonable yet I cant think of a room setting that could account for the loss of grip... Grip reduction does not affect lap times right?
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
Draft definitely makes a car handle worse, or being in draft, I should say.
I haven't driven with boost on once, so I have no clue. I know in NFS they have the same priciple with 'catch-up", meaning a system to make cars behind catch the leaders, it makes lead cars go slower, trailing cars go faster, increases and decreases cornering grip respectively, and might even close the gap with sheer timing/frame skips, etc. It gets very severe, so depending on how PD's "boost" is configured, it could be exactly the same.
So you can imagine if it is, how that would end up if it went out of whack.
Forcednduckshn has an almost new PS3 slim, with not a single thing on his PS3 besides GT5. He's experienced it.
I have a "newer" fat PS3 (4 yrs old) with some other game data, kept in a cold (50-60 degree) room, I've also experienced it.
Just based on the mass of people being affected by it now, (not before Spec II though) I can't imagine it's specific hardware related. To many people with to many different setups are getting it I think.
If it's hardware related (I kind of doubt it), I don't think we can fix it, nor do I think any system/configuration is immune to it.
I think the people who haven't found it, are either not racing in the right circumstances, or simply not noticing it, depending on the severity/cause.
I've had the FPS issue come up in races for a while now, I just never was able to tie it to lap times, because it only happened in traffic, and wasn't severe enough to really slow me down. Since when I got in clean air my times always matched, I assumed it was a figment of imagination.
Notice I haven't responded to him in a few days?
His entire agenda is to "disprove" anything saying the bug is real.
That or he's looking for a fight. (trolling)
- 1,616
- Australia
- GTP_ealirendur
I'll try to avoid my usual tl;dr..,
Has anyone experienced the speed up/slow down (as opposed to just framerate drop by itself) in a fixed host lobby?
How about in a Low or Very Low room quality with 14-16 drivers? (Either fixed or mesh)
Has anyone experienced the speed up/slow down (as opposed to just framerate drop by itself) in a fixed host lobby?
How about in a Low or Very Low room quality with 14-16 drivers? (Either fixed or mesh)
Last edited:
I've never managed to get a fixed host lobby to be anything other than a lagfest with 12+ people
nasanu
(Banned)
- 1,429
- Australia
- nasanu
- nasanu
Well obviously not at all times, there are menus and such. But in the game world then yes, every single game is maxing out the hardware. That is an unquestionable truth. If anyone with even the slightest knowledge of games programing enters this thread they will back me up. But it seems actual knowledge is thin on the ground in here.
- 1,106
- NC/NoVA
- dudeondacouch
Does this board have an "ignore" feature?
- 1,616
- Australia
- GTP_ealirendur
I've never managed to get a fixed host lobby to be anything other than a lagfest with 12+ people
Interesting. But if no one was mysteriously faster or slower, that's at least "fair", if you see what I'm driving at, in that all participants (with the possible exception of the host?) should be equally affected.
I've not played much in, or seen, many rooms using lower than Standard. It says right in the manual that the "quality" relates to frequency of communications (that is to say, how much or how often telemetry is transmitted).
So far, the only solid "Don't do that then" we've really got is don't go over 12 racers, but we have very little information on what room types that applies to (I think mostly mesh on Standard/High quality, since that's what most folks roll with).
Nonetheless, I'm very interested to see how testing with other settings turns out (along the lines CSL is saying, for example), since finding a way to allow fair races with 14-16 is what we all want, yes?
I'm also presuming it has happened to folks in both all-PAL and all-NTSC lobbies (again, the it being timing/boost weirdness rather than just framerate or positional skipping lag), based on readings in this thread.
Note: In one of my theories, turning draft to strong might make the timing/boost problem *worse*.
Different note: In the PS3's architecture, really whacky things could happen under full load if key assumptions/assertions in the code aren't met. Heavy concurrency is pretty hard. Games like Superhero Squad, and many other throwaway ports, clearly aren't doing that.
Huyler, do you know if boost obviously impacts cornering and/or straight line speed?
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
Yes.
Click the name, then click "view profile", at the top of their profile page, click "user lists" and the bottom option will be "add to ignore list".
- 4,605
- United States
- carracerptp
Delete please.
Last edited:
- 401
- Wollongong
- sb170773
As far as the causes for this glitch you guys are all talking double dutch, i dont really understand any of it, but i do know i have seen this glitch working in my racing league. We generally have 12 - 14 in our lobby and we had one guy who had these exact problems, very slow acceleration, slow top speed and a reduction in grip. when he left the room he was back on the pace that was comparable to the rest of the field.
Buggered if i can add to the conversation as to why this happens, other than to say the glitch seems real.
Cheers
Stu
Buggered if i can add to the conversation as to why this happens, other than to say the glitch seems real.
Cheers
Stu
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
The main issue I find for testing with a fixed host room is getting a room of 13+ players in fixed host that doesn't crumble, or have horrible lag.
If the problem is something on PD's end, I'd like to think they know what they've screwed with, etc. If it's a boost or draft bug, then maybe we can enlighten them, we definitely need a big room to test these things out though, of course.
I did the delete re-install, so I'll be able to try and see if that helped too, though I doubt it will make any difference, just figured it couldn't hurt to try it out.
I haven't tried to make a "very high" connection room since my speed upgrade, but I know before my speed upgrade I could neither join nor make one, so the other difference I can think would be to try "standard" and "low" rooms.
- 43
- Dave_Panic
I really don't know how you can be so sure of that. You do know people use entire clusters of ps3s to build super computers right? You can bet your arse they're running for more than 8 hours straight!
If your cpu needed a break after running your fluid simulation for more than 3 hours then you did not have adequate cooling in the first place. Fact.
And btw. In no way does every game use 100% all the time. I own Pac Man on ps3 for example. If there was some kind of task manager for ps3 you might see it showing 100% cpu usage or something. It may well consume all available cpu cycles but I bet it doesn't even touch the Cell chip!
Similar threads
