- 2,835
- Lincoln
- Victory_Reign93
- Linthium Reign
GT6 'MY HOME' HUB: Awards time.
- Thread starter photonrider
- 3,027 comments
- 270,644 views
- 697
- glyfada
- bellitsa
OOOOOOk 9:36 for me...so I am only about 7 secs slower per lap of not the best time you can do
- 2,835
- Lincoln
- Victory_Reign93
- Linthium Reign
- 697
- glyfada
- bellitsa
yea I had 8:43, 9:36, 8:45 with the usual mishaps ,anyway its a fun raceBearing in mind that was on a full wet lap, my first lap was an 8:38 and until the spin at the end of lap 3, was going to be beat by a decent portion.
- 7,436
- Canada
- photonrider
Nice job, @Wydopen. 👍
I'm sure you had a lot of fun with that one.
Only those who actually try out this mission and attempt to achieve the objective without quitting will know what I mean.
Obviously to bring in 4 Evos in a row like that would have made you very focused on what the AI are doing, how they react, how they 'remember' what you did previously and try to take evasive action, how they defend their rabbitline, how faster and more aggressive they get . . . and so on.
I started off by bringing 3 Evos to the line, then my next field had 3 Evos. So I brought them all 4 to the line with a win. The next field gave me 4 Evos. I brought them, all to the line with a win, which made 5 Evos in total. The next field gave me 5 Evos. This time I brought all to the line together but placed 3rd. 2nd try, after a change in strategy, and I brought all 5 to the line with me in 1st - so 6 Evos.
By this time I'm wondering if the Game can read my mind. (That's actually an old thought, echoed by many in the GT5 Forums in the past - especially with the UCD.
)
The next field gave me 6 Evos!
I'm like --WTF is with this game?
Meanwhile I had learned how fast and ruthless the guys in the GT-Rs could be - and, dang, those GT-Rs are built like tanks.
The Subarus are sprinters and can keep you busier than a fox in a hen-house!
Plus, of course, we have to put up with our teammates and their idiosyncracies - it's like these guys are on some special experimental drug. And obviously they don't know we are all a team and trying to help each other get to the front.
Oh! No! I'm the frikking enemy.
There were times I could have killed Luna, or Hoffmann - but as I played with them through race after race, and brought more and more of them home, in the initial races, I started to see the pattern of their 'personalities' as such and how they behaved and so could predict to a point what they would do, and could control the whole race better.
This is all about the performance of the car.
As we hustle to and fro keeping everyone in order like a pace car gone mad, we can see the different performances of the AI cars begin to show - and their true strengths and weakness simulated for us as we push their stats to the max and the particular AI car try to find the optimum lines for the particular car on this track.
This helps us assess the cars.
Luna in the slowest Evo, for instance is awful through the corners, but boy, does he make up for it on the straights - like a tortoise on steroids.
Gold rabbits Jokela, Maxwell, Dekker - they all have fast cars, and so do Silver rabbits Gill and Gilliam, but Bieke and de Vries are mid-pace Bronzes. Hoffman hangs behind the mid-pacers while Luna makes a big scene of being a back-marker - and of course just balking to be taken up front.
The handicap is usually set so that Luna is at the back, so that makes it doubly difficult - slow car given a fast car's handicap.
Meanwhile - don't trust Jensen! His WRX STi has the perfect handicap; he is in last position and will arrive at the finishing line right on time to challenge the leaders at the line. I have to buy what he is driving.
As for Aparicio in the M-Spec Nur - he has to be sent to the back right away. The guy is a monster. Obviously the car is. Don't take your eyes off Araki in the Sport Wagon STi. One moment he's dawdling around but the next moment as sooon as a scuffle starts between anybody he dissappears and ends up right in the middle of all the Evos you've lined up. And maybe 1 lap to go. With Luna and Hoffmann trailing and Jensen or Aparacio breathing down their necks and trying to cut the last Evos off at the finishing line.
Meanwhile you are trying to win with one eye on the mirror.
Not exactly a point to point zone-out for sure; was a lot of fun and developed a lot of driving skills, especially utmost control of the car one is driving, and the ability to make lightning-fast decisions on the fly while having a 360 degree focus on everything around. Timing is critical throughout the whole exercise - and instant recognition of teammates or opponents in the thick of a melee is a priority.
Thanks for the entry - but I'm afraid for now you are in 3rd Place on the leaderboard, too - so you'll have to get back and battle those Subies and GT-Rs again while baby-sitting a really diverse set of Evos to the line if you want to clinch the title.
Well, when it gave me 6 Evos, I stuck around and played with them for several races, bringing 5 in plus me for a fast win, as well as checking out what to do with Luna who was the 6th Evo in the line-up and stuck in the back end with me. Maxwell and Dekker were up in front - fast runners, and had to be reeled back quick before they got away.
Sprinkled in the middle of the field were opponents- Palumbo in the red Skyline, and Rios and Nyman in Subies - pests! And I'm assuming these three guys are Silver rabbits from the speed they make it from mid-pack up to the front.
Meanwhile I'm trying to catch them and hold them off so Luna can get by and join the pack, but Luna - first - hates to pass if there is even the slightest disturbance in front of him - and second, when he does pass is as slow as molasses on a frigid day in trying to get to the front.
Now I have to get Luna to the front, fend off the attacks from the Subies and Skylines, and then try to overtake everybody at the line hoping that Luna doesn't get bit in the butt by Jensen in the Subie and drop my Evo count - because I'm shooting for 7.
Right. 7 Evos. At the line. With me in front.
When does that happen IRL?
Unfortunately, after such a masterful command of the race, I have to move aside for The Gullwing Commander himself. He's in 1st Place with 7 Evos at the line, too - and with a much faster time.
For the moment it seems like the Gullwing Commander has command of the Commander titles, too.
Ah! Yes . . . you were talking about Luna, I suppose.
Wonder who hired that guy into this fabulously successful Mitsubishi team. Must have been out at sea.
I'm sure you had a lot of fun with that one.
Only those who actually try out this mission and attempt to achieve the objective without quitting will know what I mean.
Obviously to bring in 4 Evos in a row like that would have made you very focused on what the AI are doing, how they react, how they 'remember' what you did previously and try to take evasive action, how they defend their rabbitline, how faster and more aggressive they get . . . and so on.
I started off by bringing 3 Evos to the line, then my next field had 3 Evos. So I brought them all 4 to the line with a win. The next field gave me 4 Evos. I brought them, all to the line with a win, which made 5 Evos in total. The next field gave me 5 Evos. This time I brought all to the line together but placed 3rd. 2nd try, after a change in strategy, and I brought all 5 to the line with me in 1st - so 6 Evos.
By this time I'm wondering if the Game can read my mind. (That's actually an old thought, echoed by many in the GT5 Forums in the past - especially with the UCD.
)The next field gave me 6 Evos!
I'm like --WTF is with this game?
Meanwhile I had learned how fast and ruthless the guys in the GT-Rs could be - and, dang, those GT-Rs are built like tanks.
The Subarus are sprinters and can keep you busier than a fox in a hen-house!
Plus, of course, we have to put up with our teammates and their idiosyncracies - it's like these guys are on some special experimental drug. And obviously they don't know we are all a team and trying to help each other get to the front.
Oh! No! I'm the frikking enemy.
There were times I could have killed Luna, or Hoffmann - but as I played with them through race after race, and brought more and more of them home, in the initial races, I started to see the pattern of their 'personalities' as such and how they behaved and so could predict to a point what they would do, and could control the whole race better.
This is all about the performance of the car.
As we hustle to and fro keeping everyone in order like a pace car gone mad, we can see the different performances of the AI cars begin to show - and their true strengths and weakness simulated for us as we push their stats to the max and the particular AI car try to find the optimum lines for the particular car on this track.
This helps us assess the cars.
Luna in the slowest Evo, for instance is awful through the corners, but boy, does he make up for it on the straights - like a tortoise on steroids.
Gold rabbits Jokela, Maxwell, Dekker - they all have fast cars, and so do Silver rabbits Gill and Gilliam, but Bieke and de Vries are mid-pace Bronzes. Hoffman hangs behind the mid-pacers while Luna makes a big scene of being a back-marker - and of course just balking to be taken up front.
The handicap is usually set so that Luna is at the back, so that makes it doubly difficult - slow car given a fast car's handicap.
Meanwhile - don't trust Jensen! His WRX STi has the perfect handicap; he is in last position and will arrive at the finishing line right on time to challenge the leaders at the line. I have to buy what he is driving.
As for Aparicio in the M-Spec Nur - he has to be sent to the back right away. The guy is a monster. Obviously the car is. Don't take your eyes off Araki in the Sport Wagon STi. One moment he's dawdling around but the next moment as sooon as a scuffle starts between anybody he dissappears and ends up right in the middle of all the Evos you've lined up. And maybe 1 lap to go. With Luna and Hoffmann trailing and Jensen or Aparacio breathing down their necks and trying to cut the last Evos off at the finishing line.
Meanwhile you are trying to win with one eye on the mirror.
Not exactly a point to point zone-out for sure; was a lot of fun and developed a lot of driving skills, especially utmost control of the car one is driving, and the ability to make lightning-fast decisions on the fly while having a 360 degree focus on everything around. Timing is critical throughout the whole exercise - and instant recognition of teammates or opponents in the thick of a melee is a priority.
Thanks for the entry - but I'm afraid for now you are in 3rd Place on the leaderboard, too - so you'll have to get back and battle those Subies and GT-Rs again while baby-sitting a really diverse set of Evos to the line if you want to clinch the title.
Well, when it gave me 6 Evos, I stuck around and played with them for several races, bringing 5 in plus me for a fast win, as well as checking out what to do with Luna who was the 6th Evo in the line-up and stuck in the back end with me. Maxwell and Dekker were up in front - fast runners, and had to be reeled back quick before they got away.
Sprinkled in the middle of the field were opponents- Palumbo in the red Skyline, and Rios and Nyman in Subies - pests! And I'm assuming these three guys are Silver rabbits from the speed they make it from mid-pack up to the front.
Meanwhile I'm trying to catch them and hold them off so Luna can get by and join the pack, but Luna - first - hates to pass if there is even the slightest disturbance in front of him - and second, when he does pass is as slow as molasses on a frigid day in trying to get to the front.
Now I have to get Luna to the front, fend off the attacks from the Subies and Skylines, and then try to overtake everybody at the line hoping that Luna doesn't get bit in the butt by Jensen in the Subie and drop my Evo count - because I'm shooting for 7.
Right. 7 Evos. At the line. With me in front.
When does that happen IRL?
Unfortunately, after such a masterful command of the race, I have to move aside for The Gullwing Commander himself. He's in 1st Place with 7 Evos at the line, too - and with a much faster time.
For the moment it seems like the Gullwing Commander has command of the Commander titles, too.
Here you go photon.
I give up on that last guy and settle for seven. He is just too slow to keep up.
View attachment 387830
Ah! Yes . . . you were talking about Luna, I suppose.
Wonder who hired that guy into this fabulously successful Mitsubishi team. Must have been out at sea.
Last edited:
- 246
- East Central Illinois
- xx-wydopen-xx
Yeah, after I posted, I realized I was way out.of contention. I tried reloading the challenge a few more times to try to get more Evos to herd to the front and it actually gave me a field with none once. I will give this a few more tries as I enjoy a challenge and this one isn't all about hot lapping.
Last edited:
- 2,229
- Canada
- BaronBlitzRed
I have a question... is there ANY correlation to which gen Evo bringing out numbers of other Evo's???
I already had a tuned Evo IV and the most I've seen so far is 3 others in this race for a total of four... I see more Impreza's than anything else. And that's with cycling the event. I'm really starting to wonder if...
Cheers
I already had a tuned Evo IV and the most I've seen so far is 3 others in this race for a total of four... I see more Impreza's than anything else. And that's with cycling the event. I'm really starting to wonder if...
Cheers
- 7,436
- Canada
- photonrider
These are the questions we are trying to answer. Some 'gamesmanship' is required.
Above all, we must never forget we're playing a video-game - nothing more, nothing less.
There are those who put this video-game on par with an authorised test from the DMV but until that becomes a reality no amount of 'very good, legal driving' in here is going to get you a RL Driving Licence.
Now wouldn't it be so easy if we could take our TT times, or our GTAcademy stats over to the DMV and ask them to hand over a DL that would put us in the thick of NY's rush hour traffic?
As a driving game based on simulations of RL cars, however, this game rocks.
There is so much one can do with this game - and I guess that would be covered in '101 Uses for Gran Turismo.'
With that in mind, then, obviously there are some 'gaming gimmicks' built into the Game portion of the video-game itself.
Teasing the right field out is part of that 'gamesmanship.'
Some know how to make it happen, others find it impossible. Seems like MTM and I know how to do that, while others may be struggling.
I'm not sure what MTM is doing - I'll tell you what I'm doing to make it happen:
I keep taking all the Evos to the front and winning the race (while driving an Evo). Then I ask for a new field. When I do that it gives me more Evos. It only does that when I win the race - and when I win by beating all the Evos at the finishing line.
So try that - if you see 2 Evos in the line-up - take them up to the front, win and quit. Then ask for a new field.
Remember - every time you finish a particular race and exit that field the console goes into 'data saving' mode.
It does this even if you didn't race at all, and only booted up the field, looked at it, and exited to get a new field.
It is saving data on something you did - what?
That data is used to 'filter' the next field for you.
So try that - keep bringing Evos to the line (and also win) in every field that comes up . . . and the game will start to play your game, too.
From many years of playing GT5 (the original version) I can tell you that this game is far more intuitive than many could even wildly imagine.
But for that one must explore the entire game - not just a TT or a lovely photographic opportunity.
So what did you do with this field? Did you bring all four Evos to the line?
You may have to do that before you consider trying to bring 7 Evos to the line. It's not as easy as it sounds.
It's possible many have tried then shrugged the mission off as childish when they failed.
The mission is no different from a police cruiser doing pursuit-and-restraint exercises or a pace car keeping order. Ace it.
The only Race Steward around is PD's built-in Penalty System. That you have to figure out and fight yourself - gamesmanship
.BTW - blistering times on those Timesheets you keep sending in. I'm sure the Top Runners could be getting fidgety.
Keep up the good work, and if you find out another way to get those fields dancing to our tune, let us all know.
"I fall down just to give you a thrill . . ."
_____________
Edit:
Will be updating the OP in about 24 hours (or so
) so get sassy with those cars and throw in your Timesheets if you guys want your name up in lights in the OP when I put up the first Leaderboards for these Events.
______________
Further Edit:
Okay - OP was updated for the weekend - so let's have some action over the weekend and knock those times down - maybe add a few more names to the Leaderboards. The Leaderboards will reflect the top 5 positions in an Event - so there are still positions up there where the lights are waiting to blink out your fame at this game.
Last edited:
- 334
- Finland
@photonrider
Some results.. First for the intermediate. Early 1st place on leaderboard.
And then for the expert race. Room for improvement, at least 5 seconds total.
Some results.. First for the intermediate. Early 1st place on leaderboard.
And then for the expert race. Room for improvement, at least 5 seconds total.
- 7,436
- Canada
- photonrider
I take my Midget in to the Expert focused on what the AI would do. Right off the bat they send Ackerman after me. My first try:
Ackerman is doing 8:17s, I'm doing 8:18s - no good. I have to speed it up. So I go back and push it:
Now the dingbat is doing 8:16s to my 8:17s and not letting me win. So another try and pushing it hard:
Right.
He's doing 8:13s to my 8:15s now the bloody sea gherkin. So this meant all-out war. Went back with a vengeance, no holds barred. This meant clean runs, no contact with anything, pushing it for all it was worth.
I get:
Now he's doing 8:09s to my 8:10s!
Sure, I'm getting a helluva lot better at hurtling a manic Midget around Willow (Yes, Thank you Kaz, and all that sort of stuff for making me a better racer) but I want to win, too!
Meanwhile the Midget was taking a beating, losing 1 HP after every race, and now I'm working with 457 PP. Quit the field, headed to GTAuto for a wash and oil and came back to the fray. Booted up the Expert race and the Stewards hand me a faster field - the one with Wimmer in it - and Wimmer is on pole!
This because I showed I could complete in 8:10, I guess.
I knew now that I had to run extremely fast - 8:10s or higher. First try:
So even my 8:08s were no good. Wimmer was going to play the same damn game that Ackerman played with me.
I decided to not run as fast the second time - ran smooth and well for the first few laps, keeping an eye on my lap times, and then as I passed Ackerman gave it everything I got. I could see Wimmer taking off then - it was like "Oh! I thought this guy was slow? Why is he speeding up? I better hustle!''
Too late, Wimmer.
Take that, sucker. Humans rule.
Freshened up the Leaderboards - and we're headed for the home stretch. I'm hoping for someone to come right out of left field and throw the leaderboards into chaos.
Till then - happy hunting.
Enjoy.
Ackerman is doing 8:17s, I'm doing 8:18s - no good. I have to speed it up. So I go back and push it:
Now the dingbat is doing 8:16s to my 8:17s and not letting me win. So another try and pushing it hard:
Right.
He's doing 8:13s to my 8:15s now the bloody sea gherkin. So this meant all-out war. Went back with a vengeance, no holds barred. This meant clean runs, no contact with anything, pushing it for all it was worth.I get:
Now he's doing 8:09s to my 8:10s!
Sure, I'm getting a helluva lot better at hurtling a manic Midget around Willow (Yes, Thank you Kaz, and all that sort of stuff for making me a better racer) but I want to win, too!
Meanwhile the Midget was taking a beating, losing 1 HP after every race, and now I'm working with 457 PP. Quit the field, headed to GTAuto for a wash and oil and came back to the fray. Booted up the Expert race and the Stewards hand me a faster field - the one with Wimmer in it - and Wimmer is on pole!
This because I showed I could complete in 8:10, I guess.
I knew now that I had to run extremely fast - 8:10s or higher. First try:
So even my 8:08s were no good. Wimmer was going to play the same damn game that Ackerman played with me.
I decided to not run as fast the second time - ran smooth and well for the first few laps, keeping an eye on my lap times, and then as I passed Ackerman gave it everything I got. I could see Wimmer taking off then - it was like "Oh! I thought this guy was slow? Why is he speeding up? I better hustle!''
Too late, Wimmer.
Take that, sucker. Humans rule.
Freshened up the Leaderboards - and we're headed for the home stretch. I'm hoping for someone to come right out of left field and throw the leaderboards into chaos.
Till then - happy hunting.
Enjoy.
- 2,229
- Canada
- BaronBlitzRed
Wow, talk about making the headlines! 
Cheers
Cheers
- 7,436
- Canada
- photonrider
And for once the headline is a solid fact.
But how long will you remain unchallenged for? At that point they'll have to stop the presses and recast it quick. I'm surprised that no one has come close to your time - mighty fine tune you have on that 2CV, boffin.
As you may have noticed I had to remove my time - apparently I'm compelled by my VicReign Rights to keep away.
________________________
After my skirmishes in the Midget with Ackerman and Wimmer, I was impatient to take a 'real' car out for a drive and really test the mettle of these rabbits, see how fast they were. Grabbed my 15th Anniv Viper and took it to the event - Lo! And behold! Vipers came out of the pits like snakes fleeing a fire. Stewards send me Wimmer, thinking I can still only do 8:10s. Crushed Wimmer - but boy, didn't he improve on his time.
Saez in the C7 was faster:
Next in for the massacre was Sugiyama in the V12 Vantage. also fast, but not fast enough - and I'm practically cruising around in my Viper. The car handles like a dream, bone stock, detuned - I could drive this thing all day long.
Finally along comes the Rabbit I was waiting for - Mayer - in the SRT10 Coupe.
As one can see, all this makes up for very diverse fields and a huge window for dynamic game balancing.
How fast can Mayer actually go?
Well - the Baron seems to have answered that question for now:
7:22:785. That's faster than a lot of us RL drivers.
- 2,835
- Lincoln
- Victory_Reign93
- Linthium Reign
Did you guys think I would sit this one out? 
Guess again.
And same goes for Vic Junior.
Guess again.
And same goes for Vic Junior.
- 2,229
- Canada
- BaronBlitzRed
Finally along comes the Rabbit I was waiting for - Mayer - in the SRT10 Coupe.
As one can see, all this makes up for very diverse fields and a huge window for dynamic game balancing.
How fast can Mayer actually go?
Well - the Baron seems to have answered that question for now:
7:22:785. That's faster than a lot of us RL drivers.
The one thing I REALLY remember about this Mayer rabbit is that I was up by at least 6-7 seconds ahead 1 sector before the finish line. Now even though he was in an SRT10, that's a lot of time to make up in the last sector. If I didn't know any better, I'd say he hit the NOS... but that's not possible, right? Did you find the same thing @photonrider ???
Cheers
- 7,436
- Canada
- photonrider
Did you guys think I would sit this one out?
And same goes for Vic Junior.
Junior is becoming a thorn in Hotchkiss's side. I'm sure that mysterious Mr. Mantere is not going to like that time either.
Come the day we take these drivebots online against each other . . .
I shall put up the complete standings soon. Maybe we can run this 2nd race of the GT3 B-Spec series till end of June?
______________________
I need to conduct another test soon using the B-Spec Bots that we are using as our drivers.
There is a hypothesis out there that the drivers (our drivers) do not learn.
Okay. Junior, Hotchkiss and Mr. Mantere have been competing for awhile now, and we have been putting them through their paces in our individual ways.
Now if there has been no impact on the driver - then it stands to reason that if the three of them race a particular race, in a particular car, and are managed identically (for instance all of them on My Own Pace) then the results should be identical.
If not, why?
I'm still working out the details of what track/car(stock)/settings to use for this test.
As well for the sake of some 'controls' we should repeat the race 3 times, recycling the field, and hoping that we will all get a similar field at least once.
I will have the details worked out by Friday evening and we can do the tests over the weekend.
If Junior still comes up with better times than Mr. Mantere or Hotchkiss, then, yes, our input has impact.
That's a short paragraph - but, boy, is it loaded.
Well, first of all - let's address this 'easing off on the gas' phenomenon, mentioned many times by players in various threads - most recently by Ryk and the Moose over in the 'Stock' thread.
I have experienced the same thing many, many times.
Now as you might have realised, I'm a bit of a 'finish line fanatic'. When I know the car I'm in gives me a good lead at will, I usually dawdle in traffic, admiring the cars as I stalk them and pass them by. I make sure I catch up with the leader(s) at the start of the last lap and generally play tag with them till the final straight.
From the start of the straight to the line is when I taunt them on.
I always use normal view, with the proximity indicators on (when a car is beside me I can't see them readily except for the blinking arrows) and I have noticed that when I race them to the line, if I give them room to overtake, yet keep up the pressure, they will race beside me to the line but hold back just a little bit.
If I feather the throttle a hair at that moment they will overtake me. I have to keep the pressure up.
It is as if they are pacing me to the line, but if I block them they will speed up and spin me, if I ease off they will overtake me, if I show I'm all out to get the win, but give them room to overtake, they hold back just a notch; I see the arrows turn yellow, then red, then yellow again as they fall back slightly.
If my car is not fast enough to keep up the pressure at this point, they will overtake me.
If I have mistimed the run and haven't got to speed before the line, they will overtake me.
They continually make it clear that I'm making mistakes and don't deserve the win.
Most of the time, though, if I give them the room to overtake me at the line, but give it pedal to the metal, they let me win.
As you can see here - they can take me, but they're letting me win because I'm doing my best:
This happened so noticeably in GT6 ( as opposed to GT5) that I had to check my replays closely - I save pretty much every race I do, unless it was just a bunch of grinds, or uneventful Sunday drives (even then if it was a super-clean run I'd save the replay for photo-ops later.)
When I jumped into the AI cars (in the replays) and checked on what the rabbits are doing it becomes pretty obvious that they are holding back - there's plenty of throttle left, still revs on the clock, and these guys are keeping those revs exactly where they want just to push you to the max. It's eerie.
And makes for some tense racing as well as desperate sharpening of skills.
As for the Nos shtick . . . *puts labcoat on.
Yeah . . . we need to work on that, too.
Rabbit hunters refer to that as 'Lettuce Spray'; kind of a miraculous substance they seem to possess and use on occasion.
We'll skin these rabbits eventually. For now - it's not whether we win or lose but how we play the game - and there's an incredibly complex racing game built into this sim. How we play it is a measure of our enjoyment. 👍
That was a great time you got out of Mayer, Baron - the guy is capable of racing even the fastest among us.
So I'm off to the console now for a battery of tests on Mayer. Replays will be saved and analysed.
I get to use all the Vipers I have.
And I got lots.
EDIT: Well, I guess I'm too late for that now.
On to a new batch of Seasonals!
Last edited:
- 334
- Finland
Did you guys think I would sit this one out?
View attachment 391611
Guess again.
And same goes for Vic Junior.
View attachment 391612
Good time there at the intermediate Vic.. 👍 Would have enjoyed trying to beat that. Maybe next time.
- 7,436
- Canada
- photonrider
About to finish another page . . . so this would be a good time to throw in a large block of text, hm?
Imagine we take 3 brand new PS3 consoles, insert 3 new GT6 discs, and have 3 players go directly to the Freshman Cup and do Race 1 - Tsukuba with their B-Spec (sic) Driver.
Realistically speaking, the races should run identically.
In fact if we remove the human element altogether and get a PC to run the 3 consoles and the 3 drivebots in the 3 races simultaneously, the results should be the same. Or very, very close.
Obviously all drivebots given to the Player at the start (when first used) must be born equal.
Therefore they must run the same race in a similar fashion.
If the millions of discs out there are differently coded, then the 3 discs will pick by randomizer (whether triggered by something the Player did or not) a different outcome.
At this point we are to believe every disc is the same, and therefore every B-Spec driver given to any Player is the same - at the beginning - or to put it another way: All personal B-Spec Drivers are born equal; they have the same temperaments, aptitudes, etc.
Else this would not be a level playing field for all players - if someone's driver was born with Strength-5 and another's with strength-8 and someone else's has Strength-3, then we're going to start looking for horoscopes - when was the B-Spec driver born? Under how many stars?
So as fairness goes, putting karma aside, they must be or (should be) born equal. Are they?
We're going to try and find out.
How about later, as the game progresses and the Player uses their B-Spec driver for some time? Do they grow in the same way as every other player's driver?
Are they dynamic or static? Do they 'improve'?
Is their performance only oriented to the particular race they are in managed by the Player, or do they 'learn' from past solving of equations, and factor those results when making decisions? (Kind of like 'willpower', isn't it? )
What we're looking at here, then, is: B-Spec Drivers are born equal but don't stay equal.
How true is this hypothesis? To find that out we must test it.
This test will be done officially (due to the various controls, and credibility factor) by 3 of the Players here. The rest of you, however, are absolutely welcome to do the tests yourself.
When we analyse the results, though, only the results from the 3 official participants will be under scrutiny for conclusions.
This is to counter the wealth of variables that may effect the results from uncontrolled sources.
The 3 participants will be MTM79, Vic Reign93, and myself.
Here are the instructions for the experiment. Please prepare for it before starting. Fully charged camera or capture device is important for recording. Run the races one after the other - no other console activity in the middle of the experiment. Stay offline. This is to reduce, as much as possible, the variables that can effect the sampling.
Hypothesis being tested: Personal B-Spec Drivers are born equal but don't stay equal.
Controls to be observed:
Begin experiment with PS3 off, and GT6 Disc inserted.
Start PS3 - do NOT log into PSN or any other Online source.
Go to Honda Dealer and purchase Indy Yellow Pearl NSX 01
These should be the specs:
Move directly to FRESHMAN CUP RACE 1
Record Grid. Screenshot of infographic; example follows - do not recycle field - use the first field that appears.
Set Driving AIDS as follows: Leave all on default, but set transmission to MANUAL.
Compare with this :
If there are any changes make a note (for instance if SRF was OFF by default for you,) and then set the levels as per the pic shown.
Do not touch the controller/wheel, etc, after the initial Pace command is given - let the driver do the job on his own.
At any time if you feel you have soiled the experiment, stop, scrub it, and start from the beginning again - this includes starting up your PS3 afresh and buying a new car again. I promise when gifting/trading/sharing comes back to GT you will be rewarded with suitably tasty gifts.
Quit replay, bank credits.
This time after START appears on the screen give the order to Push The Pace. Do this as soon as possible - before the first corner.
Let the race run itself out. Record the result.
Quit replay, bank credits.
This time after START appears on the screen give the order to Push It Hard. Do this as soon as possible - before the first corner.
Let the race run itself out. Record the result.
Quit replay, bank credits, return to Starting Grid of the same race.
Now reset settings as follows (while still keeping the MANUAL setting):
Continue:
Record the result.
Quit replay, bank credits.
This time after START appears on the screen give the order to Push The Pace. Do this as soon as possible - before the first corner.
Let the race run itself out. Record the result.
Quit replay, bank credits.
This time after START appears on the screen give the order to Push It Hard. Do this as soon as possible - before the first corner.
Let the race run itself out. Record the result.
Quit replay, bank credits, return to Starting Grid of the same race.
Final test (sidebar) do this to end the Experiment.
Change transmission to Automatic. Everything else as is.
This time after START appears on the screen give the order to Push It hard.
Do this as soon as possible - before the first corner.
Let the race run itself out. Record the result.
Compare the result with the result from the Maunal Test. ?? Surprised?
Quit replay, bank credits. We will be using this time later as a 'control'.
Hold on to this test car - do not do anything else to it but return it to the Garage.
Gather all the information together (no need to post the infographics till needed) and make the report here as follows with the times as recorded by you.
You may post them as (MAN/ON/1) : 00:00:00, (MAN/ON2): 00:00:000, etc.
Infographics may be posted later when we go into deep analysis.
I have already conducted the experiment precisely as detailed above and am ready with my times for the first comparison.
Imagine we take 3 brand new PS3 consoles, insert 3 new GT6 discs, and have 3 players go directly to the Freshman Cup and do Race 1 - Tsukuba with their B-Spec (sic) Driver.
Realistically speaking, the races should run identically.
In fact if we remove the human element altogether and get a PC to run the 3 consoles and the 3 drivebots in the 3 races simultaneously, the results should be the same. Or very, very close.
Obviously all drivebots given to the Player at the start (when first used) must be born equal.
Therefore they must run the same race in a similar fashion.
If the millions of discs out there are differently coded, then the 3 discs will pick by randomizer (whether triggered by something the Player did or not) a different outcome.
At this point we are to believe every disc is the same, and therefore every B-Spec driver given to any Player is the same - at the beginning - or to put it another way: All personal B-Spec Drivers are born equal; they have the same temperaments, aptitudes, etc.
Else this would not be a level playing field for all players - if someone's driver was born with Strength-5 and another's with strength-8 and someone else's has Strength-3, then we're going to start looking for horoscopes - when was the B-Spec driver born? Under how many stars?
So as fairness goes, putting karma aside, they must be or (should be) born equal. Are they?
We're going to try and find out.
How about later, as the game progresses and the Player uses their B-Spec driver for some time? Do they grow in the same way as every other player's driver?
Are they dynamic or static? Do they 'improve'?
Is their performance only oriented to the particular race they are in managed by the Player, or do they 'learn' from past solving of equations, and factor those results when making decisions? (Kind of like 'willpower', isn't it?
)What we're looking at here, then, is: B-Spec Drivers are born equal but don't stay equal.
How true is this hypothesis? To find that out we must test it.
This test will be done officially (due to the various controls, and credibility factor) by 3 of the Players here. The rest of you, however, are absolutely welcome to do the tests yourself.
When we analyse the results, though, only the results from the 3 official participants will be under scrutiny for conclusions.
This is to counter the wealth of variables that may effect the results from uncontrolled sources.
The 3 participants will be MTM79, Vic Reign93, and myself.
Here are the instructions for the experiment. Please prepare for it before starting. Fully charged camera or capture device is important for recording. Run the races one after the other - no other console activity in the middle of the experiment. Stay offline. This is to reduce, as much as possible, the variables that can effect the sampling.
TESTING OF PERSONAL AI DRIVERS.
Testers: photonrider, MTM79, Vic Reign93
Hypothesis being tested: Personal B-Spec Drivers are born equal but don't stay equal.
Controls to be observed:
Begin experiment with PS3 off, and GT6 Disc inserted.
Start PS3 - do NOT log into PSN or any other Online source.
Go to Honda Dealer and purchase Indy Yellow Pearl NSX 01
These should be the specs:
Move directly to FRESHMAN CUP RACE 1
Record Grid. Screenshot of infographic; example follows - do not recycle field - use the first field that appears.
Set Driving AIDS as follows: Leave all on default, but set transmission to MANUAL.
Compare with this :
If there are any changes make a note (for instance if SRF was OFF by default for you,) and then set the levels as per the pic shown.
Do not touch the controller/wheel, etc, after the initial Pace command is given - let the driver do the job on his own.
At any time if you feel you have soiled the experiment, stop, scrub it, and start from the beginning again - this includes starting up your PS3 afresh and buying a new car again. I promise when gifting/trading/sharing comes back to GT you will be rewarded with suitably tasty gifts.
(MAN/ON/1)
Start B-Spec race. The setting for Driver's Pace will be at default (My Own Pace) Leave as is. Let the race run itself out. Record the result.Quit replay, bank credits.
(MAN/ON/2)
Retry the B-Spec race - as is.This time after START appears on the screen give the order to Push The Pace. Do this as soon as possible - before the first corner.
Let the race run itself out. Record the result.
Quit replay, bank credits.
(MAN/ON/3)
Retry the B-Spec race a as is.This time after START appears on the screen give the order to Push It Hard. Do this as soon as possible - before the first corner.
Let the race run itself out. Record the result.
Quit replay, bank credits, return to Starting Grid of the same race.
Now reset settings as follows (while still keeping the MANUAL setting):
Continue:
(MAN/OFF/1)
Retry the same B-Spec race. The setting for Driver's Pace will be at default (My Own Pace) Leave as is. Let the race run itself out.Record the result.
Quit replay, bank credits.
(MAN/OFF/2)
Retry the B-Spec race - as is.This time after START appears on the screen give the order to Push The Pace. Do this as soon as possible - before the first corner.
Let the race run itself out. Record the result.
Quit replay, bank credits.
(MAN/OFF/3)
Retry the B-Spec race - as is.This time after START appears on the screen give the order to Push It Hard. Do this as soon as possible - before the first corner.
Let the race run itself out. Record the result.
Quit replay, bank credits, return to Starting Grid of the same race.
Final test (sidebar) do this to end the Experiment.
Change transmission to Automatic. Everything else as is.
This time after START appears on the screen give the order to Push It hard.
Do this as soon as possible - before the first corner.
Let the race run itself out. Record the result.
Compare the result with the result from the Maunal Test.
?? Surprised?Quit replay, bank credits. We will be using this time later as a 'control'.
Hold on to this test car - do not do anything else to it but return it to the Garage.
Gather all the information together (no need to post the infographics till needed) and make the report here as follows with the times as recorded by you.
You may post them as (MAN/ON/1) : 00:00:00, (MAN/ON2): 00:00:000, etc.
Infographics may be posted later when we go into deep analysis.
I have already conducted the experiment precisely as detailed above and am ready with my times for the first comparison.
Last edited:
- 334
- Finland
Here you go @photonrider . I conducted the tests as instructed..
MAN/ON/1 - 2:24.402
MAN/ON/2 - 2:17.968
MAN/ON/3 - 2:15.675
MAN/OFF/1 - 2:25.030
MAN/OFF/2 - 2:16.976
MAN/OFF/3 - 2:15.869
AUT/OFF/1 - 2:17.829
This was the field:
Edit. While I'm at it, here is my result for the GT300. No trump cards yet, first car, first race, first place.
MAN/ON/1 - 2:24.402
MAN/ON/2 - 2:17.968
MAN/ON/3 - 2:15.675
MAN/OFF/1 - 2:25.030
MAN/OFF/2 - 2:16.976
MAN/OFF/3 - 2:15.869
AUT/OFF/1 - 2:17.829
This was the field:
Edit. While I'm at it, here is my result for the GT300. No trump cards yet, first car, first race, first place.
Last edited:
- 7,436
- Canada
- photonrider
Edit. While I'm at it, here is my result for the GT300. No trump cards yet, first car, first race, first place.
View attachment 392707
Mr. Mantere just happened to drop by, put Hotchkiss and Junior in their place, and also find the time to get to the lab and do trials for us.
Some driver you got there.
Thank you immensely for your prompt answer and great Results Return; perfect layout, just as envisaged. You have to be some sort of statistician or maybe an engineer?
Sorry about forgetting to label the last (sidebar) Test - I tried to lay out the instructions in clearly legible blocks but got involved in spaghetti BB code and spent hours correcting it. Should have wiped it out and started again.
Let's compare the stats:
Mr. Mantere:
MAN/ON/1 - 2:24.402
MAN/ON/2 - 2:17.968
MAN/ON/3 - 2:15.675
MAN/OFF/1 - 2:25.030
MAN/OFF/2 - 2:16.976
MAN/OFF/3 - 2:15.869
AUT/OFF/3S - 2:17.829
Hotchkiss:
MAN/ON/1 - 2:25:946
MAN/ON/2 - 2:17:611
MAN/ON/3 - 2:20:506
MAN/OFF/1 - 2:23:134
MAN/OFF/2 - 2:20:980
MAN/OFF/3 - 2:15:590
AUT/OFF./3S - 2:17:069
You know what; I have to leave to work - after picking myself off the floor - so I'll be back later.
I can't wait to see Junior's stats. This is mindboggling. In fact parts other than the mind are beginning to boggle.
- 2,835
- Lincoln
- Victory_Reign93
- Linthium Reign
Here you go @photonrider
Ok, here are the results,
Man/ON/1 - 2.26.333
Man/ON/2 - 2.17.512
Man/ON/3 - 2.17.288
Man/OFF/1 - 2.23.330
Man/OFF/2 - 2.17.606
Man/OFF/3 - 2.15.477
Auto/Off/3S - 2.13.621
Side notes: On the second test of each group, the NSX passed the RSX at the final turn, but with all Off he made an aggressive pass on the inside, making contact.
With all On, he passed on the outside without contact.
The first test of each group had a difference too, with all On he got held up by the Silvia and Celica on the back straight quite abit.
However with all Off, he wasn't as blocked in as the first time and got passed them abit easier.
As crazy as it sounded at first, you might be genuinely on to something here.
Ok, here are the results,
Man/ON/1 - 2.26.333
Man/ON/2 - 2.17.512
Man/ON/3 - 2.17.288
Man/OFF/1 - 2.23.330
Man/OFF/2 - 2.17.606
Man/OFF/3 - 2.15.477
Auto/Off/3S - 2.13.621
Side notes: On the second test of each group, the NSX passed the RSX at the final turn, but with all Off he made an aggressive pass on the inside, making contact.
With all On, he passed on the outside without contact.
The first test of each group had a difference too, with all On he got held up by the Silvia and Celica on the back straight quite abit.
However with all Off, he wasn't as blocked in as the first time and got passed them abit easier.
As crazy as it sounded at first, you might be genuinely on to something here.
Last edited:
- 7,436
- Canada
- photonrider
👍
Thank you.
I have been working with AI in many games - the GT Series is one I'm extremely interested in. The GT 3 AI nearly killed me. They're still doing it.
Then along came GT 4 and the original B-Spec Bob, and having
realized that Kaz was on to something, spent years studying and working with that immortal.
GT 5 opened up a whole new world, splitting Bob up into 'temperaments'.
Now GT 6 is bringing the whole thing together and laying a foundation that will make this simulator come alive.
More later - at work.
Thank you.
I have been working with AI in many games - the GT Series is one I'm extremely interested in. The GT 3 AI nearly killed me. They're still doing it.
Then along came GT 4 and the original B-Spec Bob, and having
realized that Kaz was on to something, spent years studying and working with that immortal.
GT 5 opened up a whole new world, splitting Bob up into 'temperaments'.
Now GT 6 is bringing the whole thing together and laying a foundation that will make this simulator come alive.
More later - at work.
- 334
- Finland
You have to be some sort of statistician or maybe an engineer?
That obvious, huh..
I can see where this little experiment is going and quite frankly have a little hard time waiting for the next step.
- 7,436
- Canada
- photonrider
That obvious, huh..
My instincts never fail . . .
. . or was it just too many mirror neurons?I can see where this little experiment is going and quite frankly have a little hard time waiting for the next step.
Now we go to the next phase at Tsukuba, with the same car (new purchase again-same color, stock, fresh boot, offline, etc, but using Automatic this time as the 'official' tested transmission for both Aids on and Aids off so 6 races which will be labelled as follows:
AUT/ON/1
AUT/ON/2
AUT/ON/3
AUT/OFF/1
AUT/OFF/2
AUT/OFF/3
Would be also interesting to see how AUT/OFF/3 compares with AUT/OFF/3S
As usual 1 would be MOP, 2 PTP and 3 PIH.
This may be a little work, and needs patience as well as fastidious planning and meticulous implementation to get proper results - so I thank you and Vic for taking the time to do this for all of us interested in dissecting the AI.
Too early to make a valid hypothesis out of this, but strong indications that the AI are not born equal or stay equal.
Junior is a 'cold' driver - yet Vic Reign does so well with him.
As well - it is obvious that the AI like to take it all off and use Manual. Damn rabbits.
Meanwhile - I am also going to do the first series of Experiments we did at Tsukuba 3 times over again (21 races)- fresh car, etc. You guys don't have to do that. That would be more of a 'control' list on my part.
Good luck and thanks again.
I gotta say Vic's times blew me over - the variable of a different field is weakened by the short course, and similar cars, so the jump in times is phenomenal.
Last edited:
- 7,436
- Canada
- photonrider
Mr. Mantere:
MAN/ON/1 - 2:24.402
MAN/ON/2 - 2:17.968
MAN/ON/3 - 2:15.675
MAN/OFF/1 - 2:25.030
MAN/OFF/2 - 2:16.976
MAN/OFF/3 - 2:15.869
AUT/OFF/3S - 2:17.829
AUT/ON/1 - 2:25.555
AUT/ON/2 - 2:19.121
AUT/ON/3 - 2:18.158
AUT/OFF/1 - 2:25.512
AUT/OFF/2 - 2:18.632
AUT/OFF/3 - 2:14.944
Color-coded so that we can get the right neurons connected . . ..
BTW - you don't drive an automatic Mercedes-sort of car in real life do you?
I'll explain later.
We. Are Going. Deeper down the Rabbit hole.
I have done the Second Round of Tests at Tsukuba - the only new variable was changing to Automatic transmission.
I really can't believe the change in the stats.
Also did fresh round of 3 again with the same field as Vic's - will also bring this in as a comparison. Pushed to entertain at the moment so will be AFK, but back later with all the stats.
In parting - I'm beginning to see that Hotchkiss drives like a maniac and makes moves only I would make. Wonder who is teaching him this 🤬.
BBS.
MAN/ON/1 - 2:24.402
MAN/ON/2 - 2:17.968
MAN/ON/3 - 2:15.675
MAN/OFF/1 - 2:25.030
MAN/OFF/2 - 2:16.976
MAN/OFF/3 - 2:15.869
AUT/OFF/3S - 2:17.829
AUT/ON/1 - 2:25.555
AUT/ON/2 - 2:19.121
AUT/ON/3 - 2:18.158
AUT/OFF/1 - 2:25.512
AUT/OFF/2 - 2:18.632
AUT/OFF/3 - 2:14.944
Color-coded so that we can get the right neurons connected . . ..
BTW - you don't drive an automatic Mercedes-sort of car in real life do you?
I'll explain later.
We. Are Going. Deeper down the Rabbit hole.
I have done the Second Round of Tests at Tsukuba - the only new variable was changing to Automatic transmission.
I really can't believe the change in the stats.
Also did fresh round of 3 again with the same field as Vic's - will also bring this in as a comparison. Pushed to entertain at the moment so will be AFK, but back later with all the stats.
In parting - I'm beginning to see that Hotchkiss drives like a maniac and makes moves only I would make. Wonder who is teaching him this 🤬.
BBS.
- 2,835
- Lincoln
- Victory_Reign93
- Linthium Reign
New grid, fresh car, here are the results.
AUT/ON/1 - 2.24.347
AUT/ON/2 - 2.17.696
AUT/ON/3 - 2.12.924
AUT/OFF/1 - 2.23.614
AUT/OFF/2 - 2.17.133
AUT/OFF/3 - 2.14.671
- 2,229
- Canada
- BaronBlitzRed
I'm watching these last flurry of posts with greater and greater interest... @Vic Reign93 did you notice anything different for your AUT/ON/3 results vs. the AUT/OFF/3 results???
Cheers
Cheers
- 2,835
- Lincoln
- Victory_Reign93
- Linthium Reign
I noticed on the OFF run that Junior caught up to the Audi earlier than the ON run, but got held up more trying to get past him as he caught him at the second hairpin heading on to the back straight.
- 2,229
- Canada
- BaronBlitzRed
Thanks @Vic Reign93 ... I find myself paying attention to this experiment as we're also doing the Baron Spec Bob challenge at the same time.
Cheers
Cheers
Similar threads
